Wrecking Blow - again!

Lord-Otto · January 2016

I am REALLY glad that so many people here actually agree with me!
(^_^)

Some points seem to be unclear in my initial post, so let me elaborate:

I can fight against a WB spam in a controlled environment. I know how to block, dodge, walk through an opponent. That is, if we are in a lag-free environment and an open field. But when the magic flies, the NPCs shoot, and you're in Lag's Star campaign, things look differently. Hard CCs are a good idea on paper, but they never work in the windup phase, for some reason. Also, as some have said, you don't just "walk" through an oppponent, especially as a DK. Snares are there, but the usual WB exploiter also keeps backing up. Under no circumstance can you then walk through the opponent in 0.8 seconds. It IS 0.8 seconds, ZOS reduced the time. Also, with 0.3 seconds of lag and human reaction time, figure for yourself. Also, I am experienced in Halo, GoW, Destiny and some other trivial shooters. My reaction time is not the problem, trust me.

It should be a dps move, imo. Look, it has knockback, stun, empower, burst and dps. All in one skill and button press. Me as a magicka DK have to slot Destructive Reach, Obsidian Shard, Entropy (Might of the Guild), Flame Lash and Proxy Det to achieve similar results. And have to bring them in line to hit at at once, which isn't happening. And even if I did, I'm wasting slots.
I understand 2H needs a dps move, that is fine. And WB delivers it in bursts, this is very desirable for PvP, also PvE. This is, in my opinion, good enough. I do not think 2H needs a cc move. Every class has a CC move. And yes, it's magicka. But it SHOULD be. As others have said, stamina builds have it MUCH easier to break free. In a PvP, where burst during CC is everything, it's not hard to see how magicka builds, with low stamina to break free, should have the advantage in dishing out CCs to compensate.

Lastly, damage. It is too high. Battle leveling is bogus, true. Physical damage is also OP due to CPs, true. But even so, the damage it deals far exceeds that of my Flame Lash, not even considering CPs. This is just BS. There is ZERO!!! reason why the dps of WB should be so high. Stamina DKs and Sorcs have DW as the dps line, and don't tell me Steel Tornado wouldn't deliver. But I, as a magicka DK, have only Flame Lash, which is lightyears behind. It's funny how it's seemingly okay for mag DKs to have a wet noodle as dps move, but if you touch already overpowered stamina builds, all hell breaks loose. This is not justified, it's not fair, it's not balanced. I'm calling that the people defending the current WB really just want to keep their crutch.

mr_wazzabi · January 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Actually an empowered frag will hit harder than a WB - but its really not single skill damage that matters, its burst windows. As far as burst windows go - WB doesnt really put out the highest, or the most dangerous burst window. Theres better options, and the strongest ones revolve around magicka burst because of detonate (which is hopefully fixed properly this coming patch).

CyrusArya wrote: »

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back.

This post is pretty on point. No offense to people posting - but the bolded part is mostly correct. This can be fought against by most classes pretty effectively.

Aren`t you one of those guys running around spamming critcharge & wb with full enthusiasm like every day?

Aw, the pleasures of ha clipping, bypassing any range check after 0.4 secs (major speed & charge disable = oh yeah), very balanced and absolutely nothing to look at. Those scrubs should all l2p, wb is absolutely fine!!!11! It`s ivincibru nbs and detonation dat needs attention, and ae caps of course

Love, just another biased nerd.

Buuuuut he's a stam sorc. He has no choice.

Btw i have no trouble with wb spammers. I have a magicka nb, so i can cloak or fear him, or just walk through.

Shield stackers and proxy det are my biggest problems.

Xeniph · January 2016

Aside from the fact this ability is easily dealt with, assuming you don't have multiple spammers on you.

If you are getting hit by 7k+ WB's that aren't from stealth, you are not properly geared for pvp, period.

oystapog · January 2016

.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Cuz CC immunity bug isn't still a thing...

There are a multitude of ways to deal with wrecking blow, If there only using the one ability and have no concept of weaving I'd even wager the scope of ways to deal with them widens...

Xvorg · January 2016

pfalzer wrote: »

What! Are you guys wizards?!?! Dodging an attack pffft what will they think of next?!?!

WB is no problem at all as a magicka user. The problem is when you run out of stamina

Waffennacht · January 2016

Maybe it's cuz im a magicka sorc, I've never had problems with proxy or detonation. Either form hardly does damage even when not blocked, nothing recasting a shield can't take care of .

FENGRUSH · January 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Actually an empowered frag will hit harder than a WB - but its really not single skill damage that matters, its burst windows. As far as burst windows go - WB doesnt really put out the highest, or the most dangerous burst window. Theres better options, and the strongest ones revolve around magicka burst because of detonate (which is hopefully fixed properly this coming patch).

CyrusArya wrote: »

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back.

This post is pretty on point. No offense to people posting - but the bolded part is mostly correct. This can be fought against by most classes pretty effectively.

Aren`t you one of those guys running around spamming critcharge & wb with full enthusiasm like every day?

Aw, the pleasures of ha clipping, bypassing any range check after 0.4 secs (major speed & charge disable = oh yeah), very balanced and absolutely nothing to look at. Those scrubs should all l2p, wb is absolutely fine!!!11! It`s ivincibru nbs and detonation dat needs attention, and ae caps of course

Love, just another biased nerd.

Is that your takeaway from the post? That it doesnt need to be addressed?

Cant help you from drawing out assumptions really. But plenty of people would validate that I dont think the skill is balanced in place.

It doesnt change the fact that its actually not that hard to deal with, and there are actually some things in the game harder to deal with than that.

Try to clean up your act and not come into the thread with so much hate though. FENGRUSH will make quick work of anyone regardless of the skills used.

Greyhame · January 2016

It's funny how many people on threads like this love to parrot "And don't just say L2P or Dodge." As if preemptive admission of how silly your argument is a good way to argue. So yes, indeed, you do need to L2P and Dodge, or walk through it, or block, or cloak, or any number of counters to this skill.

I got a 2h/Bow NB and WB does work sometimes but only if your opponent is either caught off guard or just not very good at playing the game. If the opponents we have on a server are skilled and organised then I go with Sneak Attack every single time because Wrecking blow will lead to a lot of impotent swings and misses. On the other hand if we are playing on an enemy buff server or ganking IC then I'm for sure going to use WB just because its fun to watch people go flying.

But there is nothing OP about the skill. If I, as a Stam NB, meet another stam NB and I'm running WB and he is running Sneak Attack then I'm gonna have a bad time because his burst is going to destroy my wrecking blow unless I'm lucky enough to get the first hit out of stealth and even then I'm going to have it rough unless I have Executioner slotted.

I run Vampire so I've been Camo Hunter/WB'ed plenty of times. I've been WB'ed off my feet and wrecked many times even on even footing. But I don't come here and QQ about nerfing everything I get killed by because I'm not a special snowflake that needs a safe space where I get to be the best player in the game regardless of skill.

And this BS about Stam > Mag is stupid as well. Thurmatuged out Shield stacking sorcs will wreck your world as a NB and I would think many other stamina builds would feel the same. And yet they all QQ about Stamina damage.

The mark of a good deal is when both parties are unhappy with the result.

FENGRUSH · January 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

oystapog wrote: »

Yeah...

If your being killed by 'Consecutive Wrecking Blows' I'm going to say your the one that needs to possibly re think how your approaching players using it. Also i don't know if i have been killed by anyone using a single spell without weaving in cyrodill in a very very long time. That alone is testimony that the player was also vr1 in skill not just level. I think the only major problems with wrecking blow is the amount you can weave into it, its very very stupid. For an example if I have Evil hunter, Molten armaments and rally on i can charge a heavy attack weave in a WB weave on top another heavy attack weave an execute and then a sheild bash and all of that hits within 2-3 seconds, I think compiling that amount of damage in a single blow is abit over the top and if you died from a heavy attack execute wrecking blow and a shield bash they your argument may be slightly justified but if your damage recap said multiple wrecking blows then yes, learn to dodge my friend.

Cuz CC immunity bug isn't still a thing...

CC immunity issues occur least of all with WB.

One of the great things about being hit my WB is how seamlessly you can break the CC. You break it before you ever hit the ground. Try doing that with fear - not going to happen. Even if youre pounding CC break for that impending fear, youre going to hang in that CC for a little bit. Try the feel with a toppling charge.

CC immunity problems are an issue across the board - they are not limited to WB. But more importantly and relevant, certain CCs are easier to break than others. WB happens to be one of them.

FENGRUSH · January 2016

Waffennacht wrote: »

Of course, ^ magicka is clearly OP with its massive amount of CC breaks and roll dodges, not to mention divided CPs and lack of spams. Clearly WB is sub par to such magnificence, magicka det is too good with it's blockable damage and 4 second timer. Not to mention frags and it's easy ability to maximize the CC immunity bug...

Clearly L2P...

I guess by that logic a stam sorc would pummel a magicka sorc with his WB, right?

If you have a more well rounded hand on balance, youd know an equally skilled magicka sorc is never going to run out of stam fighting a stam sorc and hes going to drop more damage on him than he can heal. Ultimately, he will win pretty much every fight. Thats the reality of the situation. Try blocking a curse/det/frag/dawnbreaker combo on a stam sorc - or better yet, try roll dodging it. Good luck either way.

That is really the issue you have in these threads. Your sig says youre a high elf sorc, so well presume youre a magicka sorc in here if youre complaining about WB - yet you should never lose to someone hammering WB if youre on the same skill level all else equal... maybe a well played dueling DK? Theres less than 5 I know of that could do that in the game. And yet here they are, jumping on a bandwagon - rather than engaging in a discussion about it.

Ankael07 · January 2016

WTB a magicka wrecking blow and fight fire with fire

Ampnode · January 2016

@karldavy149b16_ESO @xAPxZeez

The issue is having more than 1 person using the ability. I find it hilarious you all tell us magicka builds who have no mobility to dodge or block and use a counter. Oh, we only have but so much stam to burn from the barrage of WBs. I would suggest that the ability needs to not be so "easy"-friendly. Have no problem with the damage, although it does still need to be looked at(the damn empower that it gets from the second hit), but the CC that it provides. By the time you break free of the first WB, you'll be hit by the second one. If there's 2+ people using it? Might as well just give up and let the annihilation happen.

When I duel a stam sorc/DK that uses WB, it's laughingly easy to counter. I and many other just have a problem with multiple people spamming a CC that does 8K+ damage. My proposed fixes: Interruptable or remove the CC.

aLi3nZ · January 2016

Wrecking blow stamina dps cloak user vs sourc 10k hardened Ward, power surge overload spamming streaker with tri pots and detect pots. Sorc will win.

But I guess the cc with wb is what makes it op.

Toc de Malsvi · January 2016

WB is very strong, and I agree that they should separate CC from High damage abilities. I created a whole thread about it, not many people agreed, I still think they should separate the two. That said, every class build I know has a counter to WB, it can be very hard to counter at first but with some practice it becomes easier. For my Bow it was changing to Magnum Shot and learning to constantly knock myself away from the WB spammer. As well as dodge rolling economically, not repeatedly, using pots, and blocking if necessary.

PVP combat does not often offer a good environment to practice evading specific moves, you can go hours without encountering someone using that particular setup sometimes, and then you can be killed in a couple of seconds. It can be useful to find some friends from the opposite faction and go find a place to 1v1 off in the middle of no where in pvp, this can help you practice your build.

Most builds can be countered with a little thought and some practice, you will still somewhat regularly run into someone who is either better prepared or a better player than you and you will die sometimes quite quickly. If you put the time and effort into improving your play and build you will start to rise towards the top and those losing encounters will become somewhat less frequent. In pvp choices have to be made and executed in less than half a second, these are "split-second" choices that only become mastered by practice.

Just like in the world of sports as you become a better player the game will "slow down" for you, and you will start to literally see more of what is happening in a smaller amount of time. Someone saying "L2P" is very unhelpful and rude and it does not always address the issue, however sometimes there is some truth to the fact that we can all be better players and sometimes being a better player means being able to handle and overcome more obstacles.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · January 2016

The issue is blatant CC on hard hitting spam attacks and that's not limited to just wrecking blow. I have said many times CC should be tactical. One of the biggest combat flaws in ESO is the fact that abilities that hit like a truck also CC which follow through to even greater damage burst. Add in CC break bugs (which have been in the game since beta,) or lag and it really saps the fun and the skill out of the combat.

Today I specced into immovable for my Templar healer just to see what it was like. I ran around hitting it every 5 seconds while healing people. Worked a treat. I didn't get CCed once until I ran into AD's typical gank group. I let it drop for about half a second and BAM CCed. What are the chances of this occurring? In ESO, pretty *** good because just about every ability has a hard CC attached to it. This is what needs to change.

I floated in another thread an idea which I think is pretty sweet and would actually solve a lot of the *** surrounding combat. It's a shame nobody has commented on it actually. I'd really love it implemented.

Adding a 7th slot which does not switch on weapons and introducing passive stances to the game. Generic examples are things like

Generic Healing stance passive -> increase healing done by X% while decreasing all damage done by y%.
Generic damage stance -> increase all damage dealt by X% while decreasing all healing received by y%
Generic tank stance -> Increase all mitigation by X% while decreasing all damage dealt by y%. While blocking stamina regenerates.

More specific examples

DPS Fire stance -> While slotted all abilities do fire damage. Increase all damage dealt by X% while decreasing all healing received by y%. All abilities now scale off magicka.

DPS physical stance -> While slotted all abilities do physical damage. Increase all damage dealt by X% while decreasing all healing received by y%. All abilities now scale off stamina.

Introducing this sort of thing opens the door to so many viable builds and potential build fixes, its crazy. They can instantly solve the stamina / magicka ability scaling problem. The DPS healing themselves for stupid amounts while still doing *** damage. Tank block casting, etc, etc. They can even solve the magicka CC break issue by adding a cost reduction to a magicka stance for healing and DPS builds that really suffer. So much potential.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

WB is very strong, and I agree that they should separate CC from High damage abilities. I created a whole thread about it, not many people agreed, I still think they should separate the two. That said, every class build I know has a counter to WB, it can be very hard to counter at first but with some practice it becomes easier. For my Bow it was changing to Magnum Shot and learning to constantly knock myself away from the WB spammer. As well as dodge rolling economically, not repeatedly, using pots, and blocking if necessary.

PVP combat does not often offer a good environment to practice evading specific moves, you can go hours without encountering someone using that particular setup sometimes, and then you can be killed in a couple of seconds. It can be useful to find some friends from the opposite faction and go find a place to 1v1 off in the middle of no where in pvp, this can help you practice your build.

Most builds can be countered with a little thought and some practice, you will still somewhat regularly run into someone who is either better prepared or a better player than you and you will die sometimes quite quickly. If you put the time and effort into improving your play and build you will start to rise towards the top and those losing encounters will become somewhat less frequent. In pvp choices have to be made and executed in less than half a second, these are "split-second" choices that only become mastered by practice.

Just like in the world of sports as you become a better player the game will "slow down" for you, and you will start to literally see more of what is happening in a smaller amount of time. Someone saying "L2P" is very unhelpful and rude and it does not always address the issue, however sometimes there is some truth to the fact that we can all be better players and sometimes being a better player means being able to handle and overcome more obstacles.

2 words Magicka Templar the only counter is shards or jabs which can only work every 6 seconds (more time required if the WB spammer is smart enough for an immovability potion) and at the position they are in when they start WB spam anyone who isn't a dunce isn't going to take it and can move 2 steps sideways to avoid the counter. also dodge 2 times= no stamina=dead.

Also I do think there are worse issues than WB spam like the broken CC issue that causes this and other moves with CC to get abused like fear and other damage moves with CC.

Refuse2GrowUp · January 2016

WB really only becomes an issue in 1vX. Cant dodge, side step, walk into, block, etc what you do not see coming or three from slightly different angles. You always know when you catch a Wrecking Blow from behind...launched like a rag doll lol.

Anyway, the bigger issue is broken CC immunity, and that should have already been fixed by the dev team...long ago (ahem cough cough)! If CC immunity worked, you would not be constantly tossed by each successful hit.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

CJohnson81 wrote: »

I was showing my brother Cyrodiil over the Christmas Holiday. I left my keep, hopped on my sweet new black senche, ran about 100 yards and got WB'd from stealth for a one shot kill. I left Cyrodiil and told him, nevermind, it really isn't that fun.

1. Riding alone in Cyrodiil? It's a Warzone not a save zone. When I travel solo I have Rally's HoT going plus Doublr Tale keep your defense up.

2. Everything from stealth hurts

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · January 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Niaver wrote: »

found1779 wrote: »

As soon as a stamina sorcerer has another means of burst damage. then i would say wb needs to be checked into. but at the moment wrecking blow is the only burst damage a stamina sorcerer has. so it should stay the way it is unless other classes burst damage gets nerfed also. like say a nightblade.

Well the same for stam DK. The only burst ability. And if you are experienced enough you will never be caught by WB.

How about 3 people casting it? How do you deal with that?

You die that's how you deal with it Theee people hitting you at once you should be dying

danno8 wrote: »

xAPxZeez wrote: »

Boo hoo someone has a move and I don't like it. Suck it up and learn how to avoid or counter it like everyone else. Dark flare is regularly hitting me for 9-11k, so does overload, frags and numberous other moves.

You WILL DIE IN PVP everyone does. Stop all the nerfing and test these proposed changes better before implimentating them so they don't have to be continuously adjusted on the fly.

Now imagine if Overload had a 4.5 second CC attached to it, so the next one is a guaranteed hit.

Imagine Dark Flare having a 4.5 second CC, so the second one is guarantee hit.

Frags does have a (shorter) CC, but generally doesn't hit as hard due to CP's. Also to get the 20% bonus you have to use other spells for the proc, so using 2 CF's back to back is not as strong as 2 WB's.

WB just has everything except range, which hardly matters in a game with spammable gap closers and questionable distance calculations.

Over Load only spammable Ultimate

Dark Flare has a healing debuff making you heals weaker

Frags you are joking of course the power with a cast time that can fire instantly at half the cost? At range and can Proc off DoTs.

danno8 · January 2016

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Niaver wrote: »

found1779 wrote: »

As soon as a stamina sorcerer has another means of burst damage. then i would say wb needs to be checked into. but at the moment wrecking blow is the only burst damage a stamina sorcerer has. so it should stay the way it is unless other classes burst damage gets nerfed also. like say a nightblade.

Well the same for stam DK. The only burst ability. And if you are experienced enough you will never be caught by WB.

How about 3 people casting it? How do you deal with that?

You die that's how you deal with it Theee people hitting you at once you should be dying

danno8 wrote: »

xAPxZeez wrote: »

Boo hoo someone has a move and I don't like it. Suck it up and learn how to avoid or counter it like everyone else. Dark flare is regularly hitting me for 9-11k, so does overload, frags and numberous other moves.

You WILL DIE IN PVP everyone does. Stop all the nerfing and test these proposed changes better before implimentating them so they don't have to be continuously adjusted on the fly.

Now imagine if Overload had a 4.5 second CC attached to it, so the next one is a guaranteed hit.

Imagine Dark Flare having a 4.5 second CC, so the second one is guarantee hit.

Frags does have a (shorter) CC, but generally doesn't hit as hard due to CP's. Also to get the 20% bonus you have to use other spells for the proc, so using 2 CF's back to back is not as strong as 2 WB's.

WB just has everything except range, which hardly matters in a game with spammable gap closers and questionable distance calculations.

Over Load only spammable Ultimate

Dark Flare has a healing debuff making you heals weaker

Frags you are joking of course the power with a cast time that can fire instantly at half the cost? At range and can Proc off DoTs.

The big difference is all those things, while beneficial, do not cause immediate death for the opponent.

CC management is everything in PvP. WB makes this too easy. That is all. Keep the damage, keep the empowered, remove the CC.

Stigant · January 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Of course, ^ magicka is clearly OP with its massive amount of CC breaks and roll dodges, not to mention divided CPs and lack of spams. Clearly WB is sub par to such magnificence, magicka det is too good with it's blockable damage and 4 second timer. Not to mention frags and it's easy ability to maximize the CC immunity bug...

Clearly L2P...

I guess by that logic a stam sorc would pummel a magicka sorc with his WB, right?

If you have a more well rounded hand on balance, youd know an equally skilled magicka sorc is never going to run out of stam fighting a stam sorc and hes going to drop more damage on him than he can heal. Ultimately, he will win pretty much every fight. Thats the reality of the situation. Try blocking a curse/det/frag/dawnbreaker combo on a stam sorc - or better yet, try roll dodging it. Good luck either way.

That is really the issue you have in these threads. Your sig says youre a high elf sorc, so well presume youre a magicka sorc in here if youre complaining about WB - yet you should never lose to someone hammering WB if youre on the same skill level all else equal... maybe a well played dueling DK? Theres less than 5 I know of that could do that in the game. And yet here they are, jumping on a bandwagon - rather than engaging in a discussion about it.

While I tend to agree with you on almost every other topic, I have to say, you are not quite right about WB spam being not so hard to deal with ... see, you play exclusively (and proudly) stam-sorc which has the best toolset to deal with WB spam, while also can utilize the skill to its best potential ... you ve got Streak, Major Expedition almost full in-combat time on .. WB spam is not so hard to deal with for you ... try to delete one of your "slave characters" and lvl up and play Stamplar or Magicka DK .. then come back and tell us again

xAPxZeez · January 2016

After reading these posts here is what I'm seeing. This ability which is available to EVERYONE needs a nerf. I haven't figured or can't execute one of the many strategies people have given me on a plate. I REFUSE to change, LEARN or ADAPT.
I am not willing to put some points into stamina or use a tri-food because I'm not willing to.

Instead change this ability so that I can kill more people at once and die less.

If someone(s) catches you off guard and you're alone should they beat you? Yes, they should. They have positioned themselves and executed their strat on you. You should struggle it's pvp.

Want to live longer? Travel with people together.

If 3 people are spamming wb on you do you think you should live? No, how about all 3 attack you a combo of cc and dd should you live? No, stop ruining this game. Sometimes you die stop complaining how op everything is and instead focus your time on adapting to it.

americansteel · January 2016

people crying about Wrecking blow im over here wondering why my dark flare hits twice as hard as my punc sweeps.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO · January 2016

americansteel wrote: »

people crying about Wrecking blow im over here wondering why my dark flare hits twice as hard as my punc sweeps.

Your dark flare doesn't hit anyone and neither does your puncturing sweeps unless they are AFK.

leepalmer95 · January 2016

xAPxZeez wrote: »

After reading these posts here is what I'm seeing. This ability which is available to EVERYONE needs a nerf. I haven't figured or can't execute one of the many strategies people have given me on a plate. I REFUSE to change, LEARN or ADAPT.
I am not willing to put some points into stamina or use a tri-food because I'm not willing to.

Instead change this ability so that I can kill more people at once and die less.

If someone(s) catches you off guard and you're alone should they beat you? Yes, they should. They have positioned themselves and executed their strat on you. You should struggle it's pvp.

Want to live longer? Travel with people together.

If 3 people are spamming wb on you do you think you should live? No, how about all 3 attack you a combo of cc and dd should you live? No, stop ruining this game. Sometimes you die stop complaining how op everything is and instead focus your time on adapting to it.

Your basically urging the spamming of a broken skill and the 'tactic' of ganking, no one respects both of them because they are easy mode, cheese strats.

The range is dodgy, it shouldn't empower itself and the cc is broken. I have a v16 stam dk... i know, the people pretending everything is fine and it's a l2p issue entire pvp strat will likely revolve around spamming wb.

It annoys me when people basically lie to protect there broken play style.

I understand stam dk's and stam sorc have no other option, there should be moe options available but please stop defending an obviously broken skill.

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2016

Wrecking Blow is a problem for magicka builds in general. This is where people frame the discussion wrong. There are class-specific magicka counters, but there are no general counters for magicka builds. I hate replies that go something like, "well Magicka DK is just weak right now, that's your problem."

A stamina build can focus on max stam and weapon damage, and dish out damage on par with magicka builds, with no trade offs. They can still block, break free, and most importantly dodge as much as they want. With medium armor, Wrecking Blow costs so little. You add Vigor and Rally, and maybe Crit Surge for stam Sorc, and they're self-healing more than a magicka build with a resto staff can.

On the other hand, Magicka builds have to stack max magicka and spell damage for similar burst (really they need more burst to get through CP mitigation/resist), but they lose enormous defensive capability in the process unless they conform to one of a couple very specific playstyles for Sorc and NB. This is not only because they don't have much stamina, but they're also likely in light armor, which is specifically only weak versus physical damage.

Gilvoth · January 2016

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

A stamina build can focus on max stam and weapon damage, and dish out damage on par with magicka builds...

that is just not true, its a flat out falsehood.
i know for a fact magicka damage is now, and has been since early 2013 beta Stronger then stamina damage.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

A stamina build can focus on max stam and weapon damage, and dish out damage on par with magicka builds...

that is just not true, its a flat out falsehood.
i know for a fact magicka damage is now, and has been since early 2013 beta Stronger then stamina damage.

But on the other end magicka damage has CPs, a trait, and passives, designed specifically to reduce this stamina and physical damage in general does not have these and stamina has an enchantment to strengthen weapon power something magic users do not have plus their critical boosting skill actually does a LOT of damage vs a toggle for mages.

americansteel · January 2016

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

people crying about Wrecking blow im over here wondering why my dark flare hits twice as hard as my punc sweeps.

Your dark flare doesn't hit anyone and neither does your puncturing sweeps unless they are AFK.

magik templars make me want to go stamplar but im to lazy to respec

Waffennacht · January 2016

@FENGRUSH

A stam sorc isn't all stam builds. My point in that post, is that magicka is not superior to stam, I would say stam has the advantage in current meta.

Second, my posts about WB circle around the CC immunity bug. The only viable moves I know of that can cause it consistently and by player design is WB and apparently Fear. I can't think of any other non RnG hard CC that people use. That means, to me, the most prominent and obvious abuser is WB, and because it can be abused is why one should not simply say, "L2P"

The attack itself is just good, but that's not something to nerf, infact I know if you made it do less dmg, no buff and half the cc time and range, They still can abuse it to win.

Don't confuse my posts with the general thread. I made a comment about how silly it is to say magicka pwnz stam and that the CC immunity bug still happens.