Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
ETA for Maint?
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Logan67✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Apologies everyone, was stuck in meetings. Xbox One and PS4 NA megaservers are both back online, though we ran into a snag on PC NA that we are working through now. Stand by for additional details...
FYI this is why some of the player base gets frustrated. We hit a "snag" doesn't tell us anything. Your communication style or lack there of sucks.
There are plenty of competent server engineers that you should hire and layoff the current staff. I know if I went to my boss and said "Hey guys sorry no server access today I hit a "snag" last night" I'd be looking for a new job
Just curious here...
What would you do if they posted a huge detailed post regarding how a specific line of code did something unexpected, had to be located, fixed, and then redeployed? How much more "informative" would that be to a common player? Snag is an easier and more efficient way of describing the problem.
No one wants to read a big boring technical post, that has nothing regarding our game play experience in it.
To be fair, I suspect a lot of people would be more forgiving of the developers tossing around terms like "snag" if those developers were more forthcoming with, for example, upcoming class changes, responding to feedback, ETAs on bug fixes, etc.
It's the complete and utter lack of transparency that causes many players to become upset at otherwise trivial things.
But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying this maintenance has no impact on game changes according to ZoS. So, what would you do if they were to post a big post about a piece of server code, that might be used in all manner of server applications? It wouldn't "clear" anything up for the average ESO player.
And imagine if they were more open. The rage you'd see on the forums for them changing their minds, or not fulfilling their time lines would be so great, even Obi Wan Kenobi would feel the ripples in the force.
But what I'm saying is that regardless of the impact maintenance has on game changes, it's their general lack of transparency that causes people to seize on all of the other ambiguous and meaningless comments. And as for your straw-man argument, I'm sure there's some sort of middle ground between saying "Whoops we hit a snag," and a 50-page technical report of server code detailing the problem.
Actually I can image more openness and I imagine the exact opposite. I think you'd see less rage and more understanding from the players if the developers communicated to them what was happening and why. I think players would be understanding if the developers actually took the time to discuss spellcrafting, for example, and why it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. ZoS might have a perfectly rational reason--but we'll never know because they don't communicate it to us.
With today's society, it doesn't matter what they say or do, people will always complain. Rather unfortunate.2 -
Selique✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Apologies everyone, was stuck in meetings. Xbox One and PS4 NA megaservers are both back online, though we ran into a snag on PC NA that we are working through now. Stand by for additional details...
FYI this is why some of the player base gets frustrated. We hit a "snag" doesn't tell us anything. Your communication style or lack there of sucks.
There are plenty of competent server engineers that you should hire and layoff the current staff. I know if I went to my boss and said "Hey guys sorry no server access today I hit a "snag" last night" I'd be looking for a new job
Just curious here...
What would you do if they posted a huge detailed post regarding how a specific line of code did something unexpected, had to be located, fixed, and then redeployed? How much more "informative" would that be to a common player? Snag is an easier and more efficient way of describing the problem.
No one wants to read a big boring technical post, that has nothing regarding our game play experience in it.
To be fair, I suspect a lot of people would be more forgiving of the developers tossing around terms like "snag" if those developers were more forthcoming with, for example, upcoming class changes, responding to feedback, ETAs on bug fixes, etc.
It's the complete and utter lack of transparency that causes many players to become upset at otherwise trivial things.
But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying this maintenance has no impact on game changes according to ZoS. So, what would you do if they were to post a big post about a piece of server code, that might be used in all manner of server applications? It wouldn't "clear" anything up for the average ESO player.
And imagine if they were more open. The rage you'd see on the forums for them changing their minds, or not fulfilling their time lines would be so great, even Obi Wan Kenobi would feel the ripples in the force.
But what I'm saying is that regardless of the impact maintenance has on game changes, it's their general lack of transparency that causes people to seize on all of the other ambiguous and meaningless comments. And as for your straw-man argument, I'm sure there's some sort of middle ground between saying "Whoops we hit a snag," and a 50-page technical report of server code detailing the problem.
Actually I can image more openness and I imagine the exact opposite. I think you'd see less rage and more understanding from the players if the developers communicated to them what was happening and why. I think players would be understanding if the developers actually took the time to discuss spellcrafting, for example, and why it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. ZoS might have a perfectly rational reason--but we'll never know because they don't communicate it to us.
You my friend, have more faith in humanity than I!
I do not think players would be understanding when a dev comes on and explains in very good detail a game system they plan on putting in, and then a few months later revise the entire thing because a suit at an upper level position said "To much time and money to make that happen, scrap it". I think the rage would just be deflected from the dev to the suit.Falls-With-Grace ~ Shadowscale (Argonian Night Blade)
Selique Lasra ~ Captain, Smuggler, Swashbuckler (Redguard Templar)
Chases-Comets ~ Shellback Warrior (Argonian Dragon Knight)
Slissix-Kir ~ Swamp Shaman (Argonian Sorcerer)
Hail Sithis..2 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I can tell most people here don't deal with servers at this scale. Downtime that can't be accurately predicted is very normal, even in million dollar enterprise SAAS contracts. Fortune 500 companies sometimes lose access to business critical apps for hours, leaving high-salaried employees unable to do their jobs -- and they deal with it because they know it happens. It sucks, but it happens.
If it is due to gross negligence where a problem was identified and provider and customer agree to not do X that would take the servers down, and then an employee on the provider side did it anyway, the customer would likely make the provider compensate the customer for the cost of their workers that couldn't do their jobs. It is very unlikely that the customer would do that for the outages that were not due to such blatant negligence that happened before the problem was fully understood.
I don't see a problem with nagging ZOS to try to get freebies. Sometimes the squeaky wheel gets the oil. But for those who are actually serious, frustration management is a valuable skill.7 -
Huckdabuck✭✭✭✭✭Texashighelf - VR16 Sorcerer EP NA - FILTHY BARBARIAN
Texasimperial - VR16 Dragonknight EP NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas'Imperial - VR16 Dragonknight DC NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas-Imperial - VR16 Templar DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Highelf - VR16 Sorcerer DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Imperial - VR16 Nightblade DC NA - Queue Clogging LagsploitterJessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.1 -
vamp_emily✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ode to todays lamentations...
The lag...
the snag...
Its all driving me mad...
My guar will look at me and say..
Where have you been all day...
Server issues was the cause of the delay...
Hmmm...no game and my creativity kicks in...
oh gosh, ESO, please bring the servers back up. I think this person ^^ is going nuts.
If you want a friend, get a dog.
AW Rank: Grand Warlord 1 ( level 49)0 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭A truly smart person can summarize a complex thing in small and understandable fragments so a layman can roughly understand it. In that case, the "engineers" could pass slightly more detailed informations to Gina about why the maintenance is taking so long and IF something more technical show up, he/she explain to her nicely and she, as PR, could at least give us more tactile informations rather than vague and almost copy-and-past message templatesI am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.1 -
Zouni✭✭✭But work server issues are cool...who cares how long they take.
Gaming server issues on the other hand...Nyxtes - NB
Nyxta - Sorc
Mastrofonoss - DK
Gr Blue - Temp0 -
slambonkerSoul Shrivenmagnusthorek wrote: »
Any player can make this in two days, playing casually, just by doing regular quest. Dedicated players, in dedicated trading guilds make much more than that, although maybe not so quickly.Atleast compensate us with like 50k gold for everyone, for the inconvenience...
IMHO, a REAL "apology" would be do something REALLY useful for the end-game POV
Whenever something like this happens - our account 'toons need to get a tabard that says something like:
"I survived the maintain-pocalypse of 10/05/16"
on it.
Close...maybe...
"I survived the maintain-pocalypse of 10/05/16 and all I got was this lousy tabard"2 -
Jeth✭✭✭Am I the only one happy they didn't touch the code? As bad as it's been running of late, has the game ever run this well? Look at the bright side... No additional undocumented "fixes", no additional progression blocks, no additional lag, no even longer loading screens, maybe - just maybe - it won't crater an hour after they bring it up.
I do wish they'd shift to console as the paid beta testers instead of us PC/Mac people. The misery should be shared.
-JethEdited by Jeth on January 5, 2016 7:41PM-Jeth2 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭magnusthorek wrote: »A truly smart person can summarize a complex thing in small and understandable fragments so a layman can roughly understand it. In that case, the "engineers" could pass slightly more detailed informations to Gina about why the maintenance is taking so long and IF something more technical show up, he/she explain to her nicely and she, as PR, could at least give us more tactile informations rather than vague and almost copy-and-past message templates
3 -
Noobie✭✭People are just reacting the same as if they went to Walmart to buy toilet paper, but every walmart in their community is out.0
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There is of course no guarantee that the NA servers won't hit another 'snag' when they bring it back up again.
*ducks and weaves from all the incoming flames*"If you want to lose ten pounds of ugly fat, I'll be happy to chop off your head!"0 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭slambonker wrote: »"I survived the maintain-pocalypse of 10/05/16 and all I got was this lousy tabard"
Actually, "I survived the maintain-pocalypse of 01/05/16 and all I got was this lousy tabard"I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.1 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭
At least they can walk around and get a new underwear without much effort...I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.2 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »I can tell most people here don't deal with servers at this scale. Downtime that can't be accurately predicted is very normal, even in million dollar enterprise SAAS contracts. Fortune 500 companies sometimes lose access to business critical apps for hours, leaving high-salaried employees unable to do their jobs -- and they deal with it because they know it happens. It sucks, but it happens.
I'm sorry but this just isn't true. As an attorney at a large law firm we don't "lose access to business critical apps for hours . . . and [] deal with it." That just isn't how high-salaried industries work. If that did happen, I can promise you whatever IT team was in place would be gone.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT4 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Apologies everyone, was stuck in meetings. Xbox One and PS4 NA megaservers are both back online, though we ran into a snag on PC NA that we are working through now. Stand by for additional details...
FYI this is why some of the player base gets frustrated. We hit a "snag" doesn't tell us anything. Your communication style or lack there of sucks.
There are plenty of competent server engineers that you should hire and layoff the current staff. I know if I went to my boss and said "Hey guys sorry no server access today I hit a "snag" last night" I'd be looking for a new job
Just curious here...
What would you do if they posted a huge detailed post regarding how a specific line of code did something unexpected, had to be located, fixed, and then redeployed? How much more "informative" would that be to a common player? Snag is an easier and more efficient way of describing the problem.
No one wants to read a big boring technical post, that has nothing regarding our game play experience in it.
To be fair, I suspect a lot of people would be more forgiving of the developers tossing around terms like "snag" if those developers were more forthcoming with, for example, upcoming class changes, responding to feedback, ETAs on bug fixes, etc.
It's the complete and utter lack of transparency that causes many players to become upset at otherwise trivial things.
But that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying this maintenance has no impact on game changes according to ZoS. So, what would you do if they were to post a big post about a piece of server code, that might be used in all manner of server applications? It wouldn't "clear" anything up for the average ESO player.
And imagine if they were more open. The rage you'd see on the forums for them changing their minds, or not fulfilling their time lines would be so great, even Obi Wan Kenobi would feel the ripples in the force.
But what I'm saying is that regardless of the impact maintenance has on game changes, it's their general lack of transparency that causes people to seize on all of the other ambiguous and meaningless comments. And as for your straw-man argument, I'm sure there's some sort of middle ground between saying "Whoops we hit a snag," and a 50-page technical report of server code detailing the problem.
Actually I can image more openness and I imagine the exact opposite. I think you'd see less rage and more understanding from the players if the developers communicated to them what was happening and why. I think players would be understanding if the developers actually took the time to discuss spellcrafting, for example, and why it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. ZoS might have a perfectly rational reason--but we'll never know because they don't communicate it to us.
It could be pretty interesting if some of the people not actually involved in the back-end maintenance were instead rotated thru a livestream so they could explain things like spellcrafting, and character builds, and things that overlap in game for (some) people to watch as there are people among us (me, for one) who don't spend a lot of time building multiple characters to see how all those other things actually WORK in various combinations.
SHOW us how they work, rather than just TELL us how they were designed (but frequently FAIL) to work together.
That'd keep some of the players busy doing ESO stuff when the ESO servers are on vacation, and it'd give the ESO staff just a little more appreciation of how long several hours can just drag out forever... XD
Just saying....Edited by twev on January 5, 2016 7:50PMThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.1 -
Noobie✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »
At least they can walk around and get a new underwear without much effort...
Yes, but their trucks hit a snag and they are out of that too.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »But why we have to "pay the price" for whatever happened, could've happened or didn't happen at all to EU Server?
Did happen, unfortunately.
The EU server was down today because of the NA maintenance.
The EU server will be down tomorrow when we have our own maintenance...0 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, but their trucks hit a snag and they are out of that too.
We can always use the walls... u.u'I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.0 -
Dagoth_Rac✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hadan_of_Rift wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Apologies everyone, was stuck in meetings. Xbox One and PS4 NA megaservers are both back online, though we ran into a snag on PC NA that we are working through now. Stand by for additional details...
FYI this is why some of the player base gets frustrated. We hit a "snag" doesn't tell us anything. Your communication style or lack there of sucks.
There are plenty of competent server engineers that you should hire and layoff the current staff. I know if I went to my boss and said "Hey guys sorry no server access today I hit a "snag" last night" I'd be looking for a new job.
And as far as "this isn't normal" yeah it is normal. Not this long but it is a bad habit that ZOS says x will take y time and they rarely meet that time table. Also, I don't care if they are on the money 100% of the time before this (they are not by a wide margin) it's this situation and the serious BS they shovel that is annoying.
I doubt ZOS employees are going to their boss and saying, "Hit a snag." They are giving a detailed explanation of what went wrong, how they plan to fix it, and how they plan to avoid it in the future. Because that is their boss and coworker. We are not. They are under no requirement to give a full account of their entire server infrastructure, code base, database design, networking, firewalls, latest OS patch level, etc., etc. All of which might be necessary to understand the problem. They have better things to do than essentially give new employee training to the entire forum.5 -
Richard_Ralh✭✭CallsignReaper wrote: »There is of course no guarantee that the NA servers won't hit another 'snag' when they bring it back up again.
*ducks and weaves from all the incoming flames*
Don't say stuff like that! Or you'll cause a massive internet Riot that will slow internet speed down to a standstill for years! Can't have that! The economy would collapse! Then we'd all be up *** creek without a "money" paddle and resorting to playing hopscotch in the streets just to keep from getting bored and going insane! (Hysterical lol)Richard_Ralh0 -
magnusthorek✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Not a full stack trace (too much of programming jargon, maybe) but just a small glimpse on the matterDagoth_Rac wrote: »I doubt ZOS employees are going to their boss and saying, "Hit a snag." They are giving a detailed explanation of what went wrong, how they plan to fix it, and how they plan to avoid it in the future. Because that is their boss and coworker. We are not. They are under no requirement to give a full account of their entire server infrastructure, code base, database design, networking, firewalls, latest OS patch level, etc., etc. All of which might be necessary to understand the problem. They have better things to do than essentially give new employee training to the entire forum.I am the very model of a scientist Salarian, I've studied species Turian, Asari, and Batarian.
I'm quite good at genetics (as a subset of biology) because I am an expert (which I know is a tautology).
My xenoscience studies range from urban to agrarian, I am the very model of a Scientist Salarian.0 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It just seems odd that in the past couple of months we've experienced these 'unexpected problems' several times during server maintenance causing hours of downtime. Perhaps it is time to hire a new team to handle server-related work.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~1 -
twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Hmmmm...
The first message in that link says that the PC/EU server will be down for an hour long reboot.
The second message in that link says:
"Maintenance on PC EU has officially started, and the megaserver is now offline."
The problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
crowfl56✭✭✭✭✭DaniAngione wrote: »I bought the game for a friend on the last day of sale using boleto, a method available in my country that takes 1-2 days to complete. So she installed this morning and is now waiting, eager to play too (but a bit annoyed already).... Great way to start off :P
This person is the only one I feel sorry for, but the game will come back online sooner or later.
I deleted this line was just mean.
Hope all have a great day
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twev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭magnusthorek wrote: »slambonker wrote: »"I survived the maintain-pocalypse of 10/05/16 and all I got was this lousy tabard"
Actually, "I survived the maintain-pocalypse of 01/05/16 and all I got was this lousy tabard"
Thanks for that correction.
Must be these new rented fingers I'm using...
XDThe problem with society these days is that no one drinks from the skulls of their enemies anymore.0 -
Nadezhda✭Maybe a stupid question, but what is the maintenance for?
Updates for? Any changes? Bug removal?Ebonheart Pact[ Scheisserei ] Sorcerer V16 DPS [ Not active ][ Nadezhda'H ] Templar V16 Healer [ Active ]0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b85h_ujZ_vg