Wrecking Blow - again!

WillhelmBlack · January 2016

Niaver wrote: »

found1779 wrote: »

As soon as a stamina sorcerer has another means of burst damage. then i would say wb needs to be checked into. but at the moment wrecking blow is the only burst damage a stamina sorcerer has. so it should stay the way it is unless other classes burst damage gets nerfed also. like say a nightblade.

Well the same for stam DK. The only burst ability. And if you are experienced enough you will never be caught by WB.

How about 3 people casting it? How do you deal with that?

WillhelmBlack · January 2016

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

you are aware wrecking blow is channeled right

giving you 1 second to interupt /knockback use a defensive cd dodge rolling

i would suggest the issue does not lie in wrecking blow

but your reaction time

You cannot interrupt or knockback the caster. They are CC immune.

eliisra · January 2016

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

you are aware wrecking blow is channeled right

giving you 1 second to interupt /knockback use a defensive cd dodge rolling

i would suggest the issue does not lie in wrecking blow

but your reaction time

You cannot interrupt or knockback the caster. They are CC immune.

You cant interrupt, but can still cc someone using Wrecking Blow. It's not something that gives them cc-immunity, that would be nuts for real. But even if you stun the guy, you might still get hit by the skill because PvP in this game...

The LoS+range check of Wrecking Blow seems to be calculated before the 1 sec casting time is over. That's the only way I can explain the mess really, like how I'm getting Wrecking Blow'ed by a player that's on a floor above me or like 16 meters away.

FENGRUSH · January 2016

Its really not that bad - especially considering other skills in the game screwing up balance.

WillhelmBlack · January 2016

eliisra wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

you are aware wrecking blow is channeled right

giving you 1 second to interupt /knockback use a defensive cd dodge rolling

i would suggest the issue does not lie in wrecking blow

but your reaction time

You cannot interrupt or knockback the caster. They are CC immune.

You cant interrupt, but can still cc someone using Wrecking Blow. It's not something that gives them cc-immunity, that would be nuts for real. But even if you stun the guy, you might still get hit by the skill because PvP in this game...

The LoS+range check of Wrecking Blow seems to be calculated before the 1 sec casting time is over. That's the only way I can explain the mess really, like how I'm getting Wrecking Blow'ed by a player that's on a floor above me or like 16 meters away.

I've never been able to stun the caster after they have already started the wind up. Sometimes if I've dodge rolled it I'll still get hit like 16m away like you.

It's the most ridiculous skill in the game, one AD on EU was hitting me for 12.5k last night, that's through armour cap, 5 heavy, and block. His mate would "fear" and that was it. Dead before I could break free from the other most ridiculous skill in game.

Fix your game ZOS. I don't know how many times that's been said.

Gilvoth · January 2016

why isnt this being looked at by the developers?

Zyle · January 2016

I'm not saying it isn't annoying, but I will say that I'd much rather be WB'd than spambushed

danno8 · January 2016

xAPxZeez wrote: »

Boo hoo someone has a move and I don't like it. Suck it up and learn how to avoid or counter it like everyone else. Dark flare is regularly hitting me for 9-11k, so does overload, frags and numberous other moves.

You WILL DIE IN PVP everyone does. Stop all the nerfing and test these proposed changes better before implimentating them so they don't have to be continuously adjusted on the fly.

Now imagine if Overload had a 4.5 second CC attached to it, so the next one is a guaranteed hit.

Imagine Dark Flare having a 4.5 second CC, so the second one is guarantee hit.

Frags does have a (shorter) CC, but generally doesn't hit as hard due to CP's. Also to get the 20% bonus you have to use other spells for the proc, so using 2 CF's back to back is not as strong as 2 WB's.

WB just has everything except range, which hardly matters in a game with spammable gap closers and questionable distance calculations.

CyrusArya · January 2016

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back.

Brrrofski · January 2016

Dodge roll, block, walk through it, stun them, cc them, use unstoppable pots... Plenty of counters. As a magica build, CP into tumbling and unstoppable pots are a must anyway, not just for wrecking blow, but CCs in general.

I do think it should be interruptable though. I give you that.

Also, a VR1 can do that thanks do battle levelling. Where any rank can be competitive. A completely fair system. Vr16s still have some stats and skill advantages plus experience.

I'm about to lose my virginity here.... L2P!!

leepalmer95 · January 2016

Brrrofski wrote: »

Dodge roll, block, walk through it, stun them, cc them, use unstoppable pots... Plenty of counters. As a magica build, CP into tumbling and unstoppable pots are a must anyway, not just for wrecking blow, but CCs in general.

I do think it should be interruptable though. I give you that.

Also, a VR1 can do that thanks do battle levelling. Where any rank can be competitive. A completely fair system. Vr16s still have some stats and skill advantages plus experience.

I'm about to lose my virginity here.... L2P!!

Making wb interruptible will make it useless

Gilvoth · January 2016

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Stigant · January 2016

CyrusArya wrote: »

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back. The fact that you can't comprehend why it does more damage than an instacast spell largely renders your views invalid in my eyes. If it takes you so long to CC break that you take 2 wrecking blows to the face while down, that's nothing short of a massive L2P issue.

The problem comes with the fact that this skill, together with lot of others, rewards "dumb" gameplay ... its easy button ... Long rage CC with a long animation on the recieving side, HIGH damage AND Empower on top of that ... YOu can face two clueless players who dont have an idea about resource management, positioning etc. at all but the will spam you to death with WB or one spams Ambush while the other one spams WB ... the ehole design of the skill is flawed ... too much reward for next to no risk ... AND broken CC system on top of that ... It should have the range shortened and the cast time at least 1.1 sec ... or CC removed and range shortened (for sakes of DPS) ... something needs to be done thought as it stands its just too powerfull

Brrrofski · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

I have two characters that use it. I then have 5 who don't. I use it and have it used on me. It's fine as it is. It has more than enough counters.

Brrrofski · January 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Dodge roll, block, walk through it, stun them, cc them, use unstoppable pots... Plenty of counters. As a magica build, CP into tumbling and unstoppable pots are a must anyway, not just for wrecking blow, but CCs in general.

I do think it should be interruptable though. I give you that.

Also, a VR1 can do that thanks do battle levelling. Where any rank can be competitive. A completely fair system. Vr16s still have some stats and skill advantages plus experience.

I'm about to lose my virginity here.... L2P!!

Making wb interruptible will make it useless

I don't know if it would. I know it was upon a time, but that was before I played. Maybe it would. It's clear something needs to be done because everyone QQs about it all the time rather than learning to counter it

Solariken · January 2016

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Here's what, imo, should happen:
1. Longer cast time. 0.8 is too short on the screen to react. At least 1.1 seems appropriate.
2. Remove cc effects. It got removed for Flame Lash, there is no valid justification for WB to still have it. Make it the move people claim it to be in their defenses of it: a dps move.
3. Tweak the damage in accordance to other dps moves. There is absolutely zero reason WB is allowed to VASTLY out-dps my Flame Lash. Maybe the new cp mitigation for physical damage will help, but I feel like Wrecking Blow's innate damage is the problem.

I use WB pretty frequently, but I have to say I don't hate your suggestions.

In general I think attaching hard CC to high DPS abilities is REALLY terrible design. CC should be a tactical use ability that players should have to slot separately.

I also wouldn't be opposed to taking ~ 20-30% of the damage off of the initial hit and adding it into a bleed DoT similar to what they did with Cleave. This would slightly discourage spamming.

strikeback1247 · January 2016

I have never seen another game where a CC ability that deals more damage than real damage dealing abilities. Also, what the heck is that range on WB. I get hit from miles away. I'm not asking for any hard nerfs, but a CC with huge hits and a decent range seems a little ridiculous.

Rainingblood · January 2016

Lol at the "L2P" and "just dodge" comments. You guys have some pretty awesome skillz being able to dodge a WB coming at you from stealth, then by the time you BF, the next WB has you in the air again. The hit box on the skill is ridiculous and even if you move you get hit. For magicka users, a couple dodges or BFs and you're out of resource then the 3rd or 4th WB knocks how down for the kill (#wutccimmunity).

It just needs some tweaking, not nerfing. But yeah... when you see a skill that every easy mode faceroller hops on because they can spam one button, then there's a good sign that there may be a problem.

The OP suggestion of longer cast time would put it on par with Dark Flare.

I don't foresee anything being fixed with broken skills/abilities anytime soon... Some of which have been around since launch. But you can bet that the development of more DLC and cash shop items will keep getting pushed out, while fixes for crappy lag and broken skills won't.

Nifty2g · January 2016

A lot of you have no idea why exactly Wrecking Blow is so strong, lemme enlighten you

The skill can be animation clipped as a channeled ability.
The skill applies Empower to itself, much like Dark Flare but Dark Flare is horrible mobility wise comparing them to each other.
Since this skill causes you to be off balanced/stunned if you have enough Champion Points then this skill will proc Exploiter in Champion System which increases your damage by 10%
You can not mitigate physical damage so you're getting hit by unmitigated physical damage.

So all in all ZOS really screwed up with this one and it still hasn't been adjusted for months and months. It's clearly an error on ZOS's end that has not been adjusted.

Want Wrecking Blow fixed? Easy, remove Empower and give us Physical Damage mitigation. Boom, I did it for you @Wrobel fix this skill because it's disgusting how many people are using it for their FOTM PvP 1vX videos

davey1107 · January 2016

People will yell at you if you criticize their wrecking blow. I'm a NB and I nave it, let me say:

1. It's broken. You can animation cancel and proc way too many attacks at once. I've landed multi WB hits...like 3 in 2 seconds...people say it's lag, but I don't think it is.

2. It's overpowered. My WB hits for 12k plus a stun?? Low cost? Spam able?? Let's not be coy, fellow 2h-ers - the reason you're on this guys case is because you know this is a ultra-powerful ability and you want to keep its edge without a nerf.

FENGRUSH · January 2016

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Actually an empowered frag will hit harder than a WB - but its really not single skill damage that matters, its burst windows. As far as burst windows go - WB doesnt really put out the highest, or the most dangerous burst window. Theres better options, and the strongest ones revolve around magicka burst because of detonate (which is hopefully fixed properly this coming patch).

CyrusArya wrote: »

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back.

This post is pretty on point. No offense to people posting - but the bolded part is mostly correct. This can be fought against by most classes pretty effectively.

timidobserver · January 2016

Honestly on my Templar I'd rather deal with a WB spammer than a ransack spammer that knows how to animation cancel it correctly. That said, WB is very strong.

Nifty2g · January 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Actually an empowered frag will hit harder than a WB - but its really not single skill damage that matters, its burst windows. As far as burst windows go - WB doesnt really put out the highest, or the most dangerous burst window. Theres better options, and the strongest ones revolve around magicka burst because of detonate (which is hopefully fixed properly this coming patch).

CyrusArya wrote: »

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back.

This post is pretty on point. No offense to people posting - but the bolded part is mostly correct. This can be fought against by most classes pretty effectively.

The skill is fine but there are obvious cheese within it and it's mechanics that is not fault of a player but fault of a combat system and how it works balance wise. If your first hit of Wrecking Blow knocks your enemy up in the air without a shield then the following Wrecking Blow is going to be the hardest hitting skill in the game (unbuffed comparisons of course)

danno8 · January 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Actually an empowered frag will hit harder than a WB - but its really not single skill damage that matters, its burst windows. As far as burst windows go - WB doesnt really put out the highest, or the most dangerous burst window. Theres better options, and the strongest ones revolve around magicka burst because of detonate (which is hopefully fixed properly this coming patch).

It's harder to pull of a multi-skill burst coordinated with back loaded damage than it is to just hit one skill though.

SneaK · January 2016

Take the knockdown out and replace it with some sort of off balance like Power Lash has, second landed WB would do more Damage.

Also, for the people that say just dodge it, its far more complex for a magTemp or magDK to dodge, as they can't just roll and then cloak/streak away. Two rolls and no more stam, succumb to the the broken WB.

Valen_Byte · January 2016

phillyproduct wrote: »

found1779 wrote: »

As soon as a stamina sorcerer has another means of burst damage. then i would say wb needs to be checked into. but at the moment wrecking blow is the only burst damage a stamina sorcerer has. so it should stay the way it is unless other classes burst damage gets nerfed also. like say a nightblade.

Honestly this is true i have a stam sorc and without wb how would i get thru a 10k shield?

with shield breaker....I do it all the time. Eat that 10k shield for breakfast.

Mojomonkeyman · January 2016

FENGRUSH wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

this wrecking blow is the hardest hitting than even magicka. it keeps you on the ground and unable to move.
the only people defending it here in this thread are people that use it on a constant basis.
the developers removed the damage chat box so you cant see the true damage of skills.
it's now obvious to me why we do not have a built in damage chat box showing how much damage we recieve.
eso is not balanced.

Actually an empowered frag will hit harder than a WB - but its really not single skill damage that matters, its burst windows. As far as burst windows go - WB doesnt really put out the highest, or the most dangerous burst window. Theres better options, and the strongest ones revolve around magicka burst because of detonate (which is hopefully fixed properly this coming patch).

CyrusArya wrote: »

The main problem with Wrecking Blow is the broken CC system which this skill seems to exploit the most. Fix the double CC, and possibly remove the empower buff. That's all that needs to be done. What you're suggesting is 3 massive and over the top nerfs. Nerf the baseline damage and you not only jeopardize the PvE DPS for this skill and an entire play-style, but also every class that relies on this skill for DPS due to a lack of options.

Wanna nerf WB? Fine. Give DK and Sorc a strong stamina dps skill and you can have your nerf.

Seriously tho, WB spam is only an issue for bad players. Every class has built in ways to counter this skill, and a good player can render WB largely obsolete. Just don't be a potato that sits there and eats the WBs without applying any pressure or CC back.

This post is pretty on point. No offense to people posting - but the bolded part is mostly correct. This can be fought against by most classes pretty effectively.

Aren`t you one of those guys running around spamming critcharge & wb with full enthusiasm like every day?

Aw, the pleasures of ha clipping, bypassing any range check after 0.4 secs (major speed & charge disable = oh yeah), very balanced and absolutely nothing to look at. Those scrubs should all l2p, wb is absolutely fine!!!11! It`s ivincibru nbs and detonation dat needs attention, and ae caps of course

Love, just another biased nerd.

Waffennacht · January 2016

Of course, ^ magicka is clearly OP with its massive amount of CC breaks and roll dodges, not to mention divided CPs and lack of spams. Clearly WB is sub par to such magnificence, magicka det is too good with it's blockable damage and 4 second timer. Not to mention frags and it's easy ability to maximize the CC immunity bug...

Clearly L2P...

oystapog · January 2016

Yeah...

If your being killed by 'Consecutive Wrecking Blows' I'm going to say your the one that needs to possibly re think how your approaching players using it. Also i don't know if i have been killed by anyone using a single spell without weaving in cyrodill in a very very long time. That alone is testimony that the player was also vr1 in skill not just level. I think the only major problems with wrecking blow is the amount you can weave into it, its very very stupid. For an example if I have Evil hunter, Molten armaments and rally on i can charge a heavy attack weave in a WB weave on top another heavy attack weave an execute and then a sheild bash and all of that hits within 2-3 seconds, I think compiling that amount of damage in a single blow is abit over the top and if you died from a heavy attack execute wrecking blow and a shield bash they your argument may be slightly justified but if your damage recap said multiple wrecking blows then yes, learn to dodge my friend.

Waffennacht · January 2016

oystapog wrote: »

Yeah...

If your being killed by 'Consecutive Wrecking Blows' I'm going to say your the one that needs to possibly re think how your approaching players using it. Also i don't know if i have been killed by anyone using a single spell without weaving in cyrodill in a very very long time. That alone is testimony that the player was also vr1 in skill not just level. I think the only major problems with wrecking blow is the amount you can weave into it, its very very stupid. For an example if I have Evil hunter, Molten armaments and rally on i can charge a heavy attack weave in a WB weave on top another heavy attack weave an execute and then a sheild bash and all of that hits within 2-3 seconds, I think compiling that amount of damage in a single blow is abit over the top and if you died from a heavy attack execute wrecking blow and a shield bash they your argument may be slightly justified but if your damage recap said multiple wrecking blows then yes, learn to dodge my friend.

Cuz CC immunity bug isn't still a thing...