Vet Levels Going Away?

Robo_Hobo · January 2016

I look forward to the change. Leveling up has never been my goal regardless of the system but if players are able to get into the content they came here to play quicker rather than go through what they didn't come here for just to do that, then that's good.

Bartdude · January 2016

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

I've never really understood the mentality of "I will play the game to participate in grinding and leveling".

For me what is fun is actually getting better and more skillful at the game.

Grinding, leveling, all that crud. It is boring as heck. All it does is make me not want to play because all it is, is a huge time waster and cheap "filler".

Everything in this game has levels, gear, skill lines, skills....leveling those puts more abilities in the players use.

Whats the magic bullet to take the capriciousness out of the word "leveling"? Where do you draw the line? Is it really just VR?

Is it any type of progression where you're rewarded for spending time doing rather than not?

Fine, get rid of VR. What's next, the AP grind? No no, that's already stated a few times a week. Undaunted grind? Nope, that likewise is already complained about. How about just all leveling and for that matter as well as any and all acquisition of items. This should really be Elder Scrolls SIms with an unlimited money cheat.

Why not just make this an "Adventure FPS". Everything is coop and nothing is earned other than maybe little "you killed 10 beas" achievement badges... Oh wait, then there would be disparity in the number of achievements and Timmy over there in the corner might feel bad if he doesn't have them too. So no achievements either, nip that in the bud!

Well said, I think people should realize this is an MMO otherwise they should go play COD

Shmaken · January 2016

this sounds stupid.... leave the lvl cap as it is and improve upon the champion percentages, and or the champion skills, why go backwards....zzz

found1779 · January 2016

I mean i done mentioned this but if everyone is going to be at the same gear level when they remove vr ranks what happens to the people who have lets say 300 champion points are we really going to have to wear the cp gear for 160 even tho we have like 300 champions points we should get 300 cp gear in the beginning not have to wait until later to get it seeing as how we did the grind for the champion points

Kalante · January 2016

Bartdude wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

Farorin wrote: »

I've never really understood the mentality of "I will play the game to participate in grinding and leveling".

For me what is fun is actually getting better and more skillful at the game.

Grinding, leveling, all that crud. It is boring as heck. All it does is make me not want to play because all it is, is a huge time waster and cheap "filler".

Everything in this game has levels, gear, skill lines, skills....leveling those puts more abilities in the players use.

Whats the magic bullet to take the capriciousness out of the word "leveling"? Where do you draw the line? Is it really just VR?

Is it any type of progression where you're rewarded for spending time doing rather than not?

Fine, get rid of VR. What's next, the AP grind? No no, that's already stated a few times a week. Undaunted grind? Nope, that likewise is already complained about. How about just all leveling and for that matter as well as any and all acquisition of items. This should really be Elder Scrolls SIms with an unlimited money cheat.

Why not just make this an "Adventure FPS". Everything is coop and nothing is earned other than maybe little "you killed 10 beas" achievement badges... Oh wait, then there would be disparity in the number of achievements and Timmy over there in the corner might feel bad if he doesn't have them too. So no achievements either, nip that in the bud!

Well said, I think people should realize this is an MMO otherwise they should go play COD

Nice over reaction. The removal of vr's will encourage more people to stick around longer and try out new things. You really have to be addicted to this game in order to constantly make vr16 alts. Do yall really think casual players are going to make the right choices the first time they make a character? and then create a new one that fits their liking only to realize that they have to go trough the vr ranks again? do you really think they are gonna say "oh gee i guess there is no other choice" hell no they are just going to leave the game because they do not have the time nor patience. It's like being punished almost. Oh you do not like your character? well f u, make a new one from scratch all the way to vr16. It only takes like what? 1 month. Lel. Nope they are just gonna leave and go play cod like you said. Even some old eso players praise the removal of veteran ranks. I will never understand people who are against text chat for consoles, and people who are against vr removal. It is like they enjoy pain or something. Very miserable people.

I_killed_Vivec · January 2016

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

slumber_sandb16_ESO · January 2016

Here's a question.

Say I do normal DSA and get a master weapon thats v12-v13.

Boom vet ranks removed.

Will it then be the same level as the vDSA version?

Glamdring · January 2016

found1779 wrote: »

I mean i done mentioned this but if everyone is going to be at the same gear level when they remove vr ranks what happens to the people who have lets say 300 champion points are we really going to have to wear the cp gear for 160 even tho we have like 300 champions points we should get 300 cp gear in the beginning not have to wait until later to get it seeing as how we did the grind for the champion points

This i would also like an answer too ^^

AzraelKrieg · January 2016

slumber_sandb16_ESO wrote: »

Here's a question.

Say I do normal DSA and get a master weapon thats v12-v13.

Boom vet ranks removed.

Will it then be the same level as the vDSA version?

No. The v12-v13 master weapon would require 120-130 CP to use where as the vDSA vet14 version would require 140 CP to use. They will have the same base power after vet rank removal that they would with vet ranks included in the game

k9mouse · January 2016

My biggest question:

I have 7 VR16's and on my my VR2 -- will also will get skill / stat points? OR do I have to do a mad grind to get her before the VR are removed to make sure I get the skill / stat points?

AzraelKrieg · January 2016

Skill points and attribute points are a little iffy right now but they would be tied into the champion points in some way. Since the champion system is account wide your vet2 will get the same allotment that you current vet16s have

Enodoc · January 2016

Bartdude wrote: »

Did anyone stop to think that they may increase the grind from 1-50 so that you still have to do silver/gold? if you take away the grind then you may as well remove the content too because they'll be no need for it.

OPTIONS. Nobody should have to do Silver/Gold.
Once you hit 50 you should be able to choose what you want to do:

A group PvE player will be able to choose Craglorn, without having to go through 10 ranks of Cadwell's to get to the "recommended level"
A PvP player will be able to choose Cyrodiil, without having to go through 10 ranks of Cadwell and 4 ranks of Craglorn to get to the "recommended level"
A dungeoneer will be able to choose Veteran Pledges without having to go through 15 ranks, including Cadwell, to get to a "viable build"
A raider will be able to choose Trials without having to go through the solo grind of Cadwell's 10 ranks and the faff of Craglorn's small group content (or Cyrodiil's PvP) for the last 6 ranks
A questing/PvE player will be able to choose to do Cadwell's, because that's the type of content they enjoy, but only if they want to

No content needs to be removed, as you will finally have parallel ways to progress through the endgame content, instead of a linear progression system which guides you through one different content type after another.

All of this summed up rather nicely by Robo_Hobo:

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

I look forward to the change. Leveling up has never been my goal regardless of the system but if players are able to get into the content they came here to play quicker rather than go through what they didn't come here for just to do that, then that's good.

Enodoc · January 2016

found1779 wrote: »

I mean i done mentioned this but if everyone is going to be at the same gear level when they remove vr ranks what happens to the people who have lets say 300 champion points are we really going to have to wear the cp gear for 160 even tho we have like 300 champions points we should get 300 cp gear in the beginning not have to wait until later to get it seeing as how we did the grind for the champion points

Yes, you are going to have to wear the 160 CP gear, because that's going to be the best gear. The way I see it though, the reward for grinding Champion Points should be the passives you unlock in the Champion System. That's why I don't like the idea of things like gear being tied into a CP requirement.

k9mouse wrote: »

My biggest question:
I have 7 VR16's and on my my VR2 -- will also will get skill / stat points? OR do I have to do a mad grind to get her before the VR are removed to make sure I get the skill / stat points?

You will get those points somehow. Either as a result of your CPs (16 points by the time you reach 160 CPs; which is odd, as that's basing character-bound progression on an account-wide system), or they will be pushed back into the levelling system, meaning you would end up with 64 points by the time you reach Level 50 instead of 49 points.

darkashley1 · January 2016

I went from vr 6 to vr 15 in less then a week with no exp potions or scrolls I'd say keep the vr and for the cry babies that just want to be vr 16 in a day you will wreck the game no knowledge of how to play your char or make a build or be helpful in dungeons or any endgame content

Dradhok · January 2016

darkashley1 wrote: »

I went from vr 6 to vr 15 in less then a week with no exp potions or scrolls I'd say keep the vr and for the cry babies that just want to be vr 16 in a day you will wreck the game no knowledge of how to play your char or make a build or be helpful in dungeons or any endgame content

I do wonder how making the games leveling mechanic so much easier will affect the gameplay. Removing the VR system does seem like a step backward, but I know a lot of players don’t like the grind and prefer to spend their time in PVP or Dungeons. The cynic in me thinks that the sale of xp pots are not very good because it is so easy to level in the game without them, so by making leveling nearly obsolete they plan to make up the cash on mount and mount improvement sales. Next step will be to put full gear sets up for sale on the crown store.

wayfarerx · January 2016

darkashley1 wrote: »

I went from vr 6 to vr 15 in less then a week with no exp potions or scrolls I'd say keep the vr and for the cry babies that just want to be vr 16 in a day you will wreck the game no knowledge of how to play your char or make a build or be helpful in dungeons or any endgame content

So how many times do I need to hit v16 to not be a "cry baby?" Three? Six? Eight? How exactly does slogging my way through faceroll-vr3-shadowfen contribute to my "knowledge of how to play your char or make a build or be helpful in dungeons or any endgame content?"

Oh, it doesn't. At all. It's just a time sink.

Getting to v16 is no badge of honor. It's not hard, it doesn't make you "good." It is purely a function of how much time you have to spend 2-shotting overland mobs and how much patience you have doing so. Stop pretending that VR is some gauntlet that reforges noobs as great players, it is anything but.

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

I do not have an alt. I play for (almost) 2 years with the same goshdarn toon. Why? Because of the vet levels. Just thinking about doing silver and gold makes me vomit.

Veteran rank away is my doorway to create another toon and enjoy the PvE main quest, get to lvl 50 and hop in to PvP without the stinkin' silver and gold.

I totally get this @Knootewoot but I think the better option would have been to FIX silver and gold and make Vet Ranks regular levels so you progress naturally through the whole of the game...

At least now you'll be able to use Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood to get those CPs!

Don't forget Cyrodiil! There has been Battle Level for v1 - v14 since the IC patch. It's possible to just go to Cyrodiil and grind in delves, do quests (there are a lot of quests), or even just level up doing PvP. Since Orisinium, all Cyrodiil has scaled crafting nodes like Wrothgar (including v15/v16 nodes), and it's all included as part of the base-level game. You don't need any DLC's to hop into Cyrodiil and grind out levels, get mats for max level gear, and so on. In a similar vein, you could also queue up for scaled dungeons and run those repeatedly to level without any DLC's.

Gidorick · January 2016

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

wayfarerx · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

This right here is what champion points are for. New player with their first level 50 has zero CP. While I admit that this game's messaging about what you can complete at what power level is pretty poor, hopefully that new level 50 will realize that they are not exactly the most powerful dude in all of Tamriel.

Conversely, when my fifth character hits 50 I've probably got a good cache of CP built up. I already have crafters leveled to max and a stack of good endgame gear. Sure I don't have every skill point I could on that character but the points you get from 1-50 is plenty for making a serviceable build. If I want to take my fresh shield-stacking, streaking sorc in to Cyrodiil why should there be a 13 million XP wall before I feel "competitive?"

Hiero_Glyph · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

As was noted previously, how is grinding mobs you can two-shot better for learning how to play than actually running a dungeon or doing PvP? The current grind teaches players nothing of worth.

RizaHawkeye · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

Assuming all of the above (all of it), then I'm not sure why they even bothered with making veteran ranks in the first place. I'm sure there was a game management reason at the time (they were in place when I bought the game), but really, why are they better than a game that just continues to level indefinitely or level to a soft or hard cap? It seems as if Zenimax over-complicated things.

Why not just continue the levels to 51, 52 .... whatever?

Umad_BrO · January 2016

Un needed changes.

Cuyler · January 2016

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

As was noted previously, how is grinding mobs you can two-shot better for learning how to play than actually running a dungeon or doing PvP? The current grind teaches players nothing of worth.

Grinding is often considered mindless, but what it benefit's from is time alone to try knew skills, CP combos, rotations without someone else pressuring you to hurry through a dungeon or some PvP lead yelling to stack on crown. They're is a opportunity to learn from every scenario

Abeille · January 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

[*] A questing/PvE player will be able to choose to do Cadwell's, because that's the type of content they enjoy, but only if they want to

For it to be absolutely perfect, all I want is to be able to choose which alliance I want to do after finishing the main quest. I absolutely hate my silver areas, but I love my gold areas almost as much as I love my own alliance.

Fingers crossed.

Hiero_Glyph · January 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

As was noted previously, how is grinding mobs you can two-shot better for learning how to play than actually running a dungeon or doing PvP? The current grind teaches players nothing of worth.

Grinding is often considered mindless, but what it benefit's from is time alone to try knew skills, CP combos, rotations without someone else pressuring you to hurry through a dungeon or some PvP lead yelling to stack on crown. They're is a opportunity to learn from every scenario

Have you played Silver or Gold lately? If anything they teach bad habits since the mobs are so weak and require very little strategy compared to dungeons. The point being that when you spend so much time facing such weak enemies you actually learn bad habits that become harder to forget the longer you use them. Most of the time I'm leveling skills when grinding, not using optimized rotations anyway.

wayfarerx · January 2016

Cuyler wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

I've really never understood the mentality of, "I'll play the game to level a character to 50, but I don't want to have to level to 65!"

I realize that VR levels are more than "just another 15 levels" but still, the concept is the same. "I am willing to put in the time to level a character, but not all the way."

Fair enough, and when I said I'd stop at level 50, I didn't mean I'd suddenly pull the plug at level 50 and go somewhere else. What I'm saying is that when I get to the point that all I have left is the endgame content of repeating quests, I will probably quit. Unless there's some super-cool endgame that I'm not seeing, there's nothing to keep me here but a grind, right? And I hate grinding.

Either way, whatever happens with vet levels, I suspect it will have little to no impact on me at all. Levels don't mean that much to me; if they did, I would have reached V-level long ago (as I said, I've been here since June).

What I can't really understand is the mentality of, "I had to grind to earned this, dammit, and you should have to grind, too." What difference does it make? It's not like you get a degree when you're done, or a raise, or like it in any way improves the quality of life on the planet. It's just a game. Or to look at it another way: it's a way for Zenimax to separate you from your money. That's the only reason ESO exists.

Edit: I realize that sounds harsh. But really, games are just what we do after a long, hard day of saving the real world.

I think you misunderstand what happens when you reach level 50 (or complete the initial story line). It's linked to the idea of what actually constitutes "end game" - level 50 doesn't mean you've reached "end game" and you are automatically competitive in PvP or are ready to complete the hardest trials.

When you've done your starter faction story you can opt to do Cadwell's Silver and Gold - you're told that in order to bring an end to the wars so you can concentrate on more serious threats, you must experience the other factions.

That way you can, if you choose, go through all of the faction stories with one character - seen by many (though not the vocal ones here) as a good thing.

You don't have to do Cadwell's, nobody is forcing you to. You can go to Craglorn (though that's a bit hard at VR1 and much of it requires grouping). You can PvP. You can go to Wrothgar (if you have bought it). You could simply grind XP to level up - gaining CP as well as VR.

Also, it is misleading to suggest (as some have done here) that your character is "complete" when you reach level 50. You'll only have a third of the skyshards/skill points. You will not have had time to level up all of the crafting skills, you won't even have access to the higher level materials.

If you want quests rather than grinds, the Cadwell's Silver and Gold are for you, and that (hopefully) won't change when they remove VR. Then you have Wrothgar, and then you'll be waiting on future content.

I hadn't even CONSIDERED all this @I_killed_Vivec ... so after Vet Rank removal we will have a bunch of players thinking they're at "max level" feeling like they should be competitive with other end-game players. Oh man... that's going to be terrible... they really should have just made Vet Ranks another 30 levels... Oh well... nothing we say, do, post, whatever... will change their mind. ZOS knows best... they think .

As was noted previously, how is grinding mobs you can two-shot better for learning how to play than actually running a dungeon or doing PvP? The current grind teaches players nothing of worth.

Grinding is often considered mindless, but what it benefit's from is time alone to try knew skills, CP combos, rotations without someone else pressuring you to hurry through a dungeon or some PvP lead yelling to stack on crown. They're is a opportunity to learn from every scenario

In addition to what Hiero said above, the silver and gold zones are not going away. If you want to try out new skills or builds or rotations on terminally underpowered enemies you are more than welcome to. With VR removal, however, you are no longer required to, which is all I really want out of VR removal.

Brrrofski · January 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

Bartdude wrote: »

Did anyone stop to think that they may increase the grind from 1-50 so that you still have to do silver/gold? if you take away the grind then you may as well remove the content too because they'll be no need for it.

OPTIONS. Nobody should have to do Silver/Gold.
Once you hit 50 you should be able to choose what you want to do:
A group PvE player will be able to choose Craglorn, without having to go through 10 ranks of Cadwell's to get to the "recommended level"

A PvP player will be able to choose Cyrodiil, without having to go through 10 ranks of Cadwell and 4 ranks of Craglorn to get to the "recommended level"

A dungeoneer will be able to choose Veteran Pledges without having to go through 15 ranks, including Cadwell, to get to a "viable build"

A raider will be able to choose Trials without having to go through the solo grind of Cadwell's 10 ranks and the faff of Craglorn's small group content (or Cyrodiil's PvP) for the last 6 ranks

A questing/PvE player will be able to choose to do Cadwell's, because that's the type of content they enjoy, but only if they want to

No content needs to be removed, as you will finally have parallel ways to progress through the endgame content, instead of a linear progression system which guides you through one different content type after another.

All of this summed up rather nicely by Robo_Hobo:

Robo_Hobo wrote: »

I look forward to the change. Leveling up has never been my goal regardless of the system but if players are able to get into the content they came here to play quicker rather than go through what they didn't come here for just to do that, then that's good.

Nailed it.

The problem with levelling in this game is the path you're forced to take.

Questing in the right order.

Questing in the right order to get to the correct zones to grind efficiently.

Either way of levelling forces you to do something you may not want.

After doing it with 4 vr16s, doing it again is nothing but a chore.

Kadoozy · January 2016

Gidorick wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

So what? The Vet Ranks are removed but the champion points remain? So just points without a rank?

How does that change anything?

Now you have to have X number of champion points instead of X Veteran level for gear and such. So instead of 16 vet ranks we get HUNDREDS of Champion Point "levels"!!!! yay!

But seriously... what it does is it makes end game progression account wide. Just get another character to level 50 and BOOM... they now have as much capability as your most played, highest level character.

I really hope that isnt the case, or they boost people up that are at vr16. i am vr 16 with vr15 and 16 gear and only have about 220 cp.

so that will be dumb if i suddenly cant wear my gear

wayfarerx · January 2016

Kadoozy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

So what? The Vet Ranks are removed but the champion points remain? So just points without a rank?

How does that change anything?

Now you have to have X number of champion points instead of X Veteran level for gear and such. So instead of 16 vet ranks we get HUNDREDS of Champion Point "levels"!!!! yay!

But seriously... what it does is it makes end game progression account wide. Just get another character to level 50 and BOOM... they now have as much capability as your most played, highest level character.

I really hope that isnt the case, or they boost people up that are at vr16. i am vr 16 with vr15 and 16 gear and only have about 220 cp.

so that will be dumb if i suddenly cant wear my gear

They have said, repeatedly, that no one will lose any skill/attribute/champion points or access to their current gear. Just the little "VR XX" next to your name is going away, they are not nerfing anyone.

Gidorick · January 2016

Kadoozy wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

So what? The Vet Ranks are removed but the champion points remain? So just points without a rank?

How does that change anything?

Now you have to have X number of champion points instead of X Veteran level for gear and such. So instead of 16 vet ranks we get HUNDREDS of Champion Point "levels"!!!! yay!

But seriously... what it does is it makes end game progression account wide. Just get another character to level 50 and BOOM... they now have as much capability as your most played, highest level character.

I really hope that isnt the case, or they boost people up that are at vr16. i am vr 16 with vr15 and 16 gear and only have about 220 cp.

so that will be dumb if i suddenly cant wear my gear

Right now it's looking like VR 16 will be equivalent to 160 CP... so you're safe.