@Wrobel In this ESO Live right at this moment: https://youtu.be/ag9LVGjVzMA?t=1h2m17s you explained that dual wielding was a tradeoff for more spell damage at the loss of being able to regain magicka via heavy attacks, which makes sense, however in eso the weapon swapping mechanic exists in the game which completely negates that argument. Therefore as a spell caster for the damage dealing bar the only choice is currently dual wield for maximum damage.
This does not seem to make sense to anyone. The spell damage with dual wield should be identical to destruction staff and the only benefit of using dual wield would be for a possibility of having 1 extra item set perk at the expense of no medium or light weaves (unless you get in melee range).
Joy_Division wrote: »Keep in mind you asking the same person who think Wall of Elements "melts" people to give you an answer regarding game mechanics.
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »LOLUriel_Nocturne wrote: »And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.
Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.
I'm hilarious, i know.Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.
Um, right now DW with Magicka Sorcs is already OP, that is the point. That people are getting more damage using DW than using a staff, which doesn't make any sense. They are basically handed extra damage for just carrying around two weapons without even having to use them... and not just extra spell damage, but also extra crafted set bonus... it doesn't make any logical sense. Magicka players should receive a bonus for actually using a MAGICKA-based weapon, not penalized for it.
The damage increase for dual wield does make sense if your looking at game balance because you can't weave in light attacks while duel wielding and dw sorcs aren't op, maybe in 1v1s but in open world destro performs better.
Perfectly sums it up. Destro skills and passives should be more interesting but the bonus spell damage with dw should remain, for game variety.Destro staves should be buffed, ATM all the skills are pretty lame and passives underwhelming. That being said, it's a good thing that dual wield gives me more raw damage. Gives more options for builds and play styles and there is a very real trade off. That increased damage comes at the cost of being able to heavy weave weapon attacks with other skills. Sorcerer in particular is most affected by this, because they dont have awesome class skills that can be spammed whilst having dual wield equipped such as whip, sweeps, or swallow soul/concealed weapon. As such, the best Sorcerer builds use staves in PvP anyways. In PvE destro staff is a must with dual wield only being used for executes and overload.
So for these reasons, I think the system is fine as is. Dual wield being relevant to magicka builds gives the game variety and and allows for different builds to be viable. I don't wanna see magicka builds all using only one weapon, that would be lame. But once again, I firmly support destro staffs being buffed in a meaningful way.
Joy_Division wrote: »@Wrobel In this ESO Live right at this moment: https://youtu.be/ag9LVGjVzMA?t=1h2m17s you explained that dual wielding was a tradeoff for more spell damage at the loss of being able to regain magicka via heavy attacks, which makes sense, however in eso the weapon swapping mechanic exists in the game which completely negates that argument. Therefore as a spell caster for the damage dealing bar the only choice is currently dual wield for maximum damage.
This does not seem to make sense to anyone. The spell damage with dual wield should be identical to destruction staff and the only benefit of using dual wield would be for a possibility of having 1 extra item set perk at the expense of no medium or light weaves (unless you get in melee range).
Keep in mind you asking the same person who think Wall of Elements "melts" people to give you an answer regarding game mechanics.
Perfectly sums it up. Destro skills and passives should be more interesting but the bonus spell damage with dw should remain, for game variety.Destro staves should be buffed, ATM all the skills are pretty lame and passives underwhelming. That being said, it's a good thing that dual wield gives me more raw damage. Gives more options for builds and play styles and there is a very real trade off. That increased damage comes at the cost of being able to heavy weave weapon attacks with other skills. Sorcerer in particular is most affected by this, because they dont have awesome class skills that can be spammed whilst having dual wield equipped such as whip, sweeps, or swallow soul/concealed weapon. As such, the best Sorcerer builds use staves in PvP anyways. In PvE destro staff is a must with dual wield only being used for executes and overload.
So for these reasons, I think the system is fine as is. Dual wield being relevant to magicka builds gives the game variety and and allows for different builds to be viable. I don't wanna see magicka builds all using only one weapon, that would be lame. But once again, I firmly support destro staffs being buffed in a meaningful way.
RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »LOLUriel_Nocturne wrote: »And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.
Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.
I'm hilarious, i know.Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.
Um, right now DW with Magicka Sorcs is already OP, that is the point. That people are getting more damage using DW than using a staff, which doesn't make any sense. They are basically handed extra damage for just carrying around two weapons without even having to use them... and not just extra spell damage, but also extra crafted set bonus... it doesn't make any logical sense. Magicka players should receive a bonus for actually using a MAGICKA-based weapon, not penalized for it.
The damage increase for dual wield does make sense if your looking at game balance because you can't weave in light attacks while duel wielding and dw sorcs aren't op, maybe in 1v1s but in open world destro performs better.
What about the fact that DW basic attacks and all but 1 skill can't be reflected while all attacks but one from staves can be reflected by any class, DW skill damage and utility are great compared to destruction staff skills DW gets an extra set bonus, not to mention staff users have no way to restore stamina an essential attribute. it seems like DW has less tradeoffs than staffs which lose so much in addition to spell power.
wrathofrraath wrote: »It'd be cool if staves were two pieces, 1 pc for the wood 1 pc for the sigil atop the staff. Rare unigue 1pc staff sigils would be pretty sweet
Meh, it's kind of about build variety in my eyes. I'm pretty sure you regain the resource tied to your weapon from heavy attacks.
A sorcerer using DW might hit marginally harder, but DW heavy attacks won't give magicka back in those prolonged boss fights, so if they burn through their magicka their DPS will drop back down for a bit. Seems to me like some balance has been achieved.
...wait... Did I accidentally walk into a PVP problems thread? *backs out slowly*
ThePMSBeast wrote: »
However , if you remember..Gandalf and the other wizards were bound to their magics with their staffs, without them they were powerless, hance why Gandalf got owned by Saruman when his staff was taken, or when it was fried by Sauron.
The magic is in the staff baby!! For magic wielders such as healers and Sorcs, yes, the staff should trump all.
Meh, it's kind of about build variety in my eyes. I'm pretty sure you regain the resource tied to your weapon from heavy attacks.
A sorcerer using DW might hit marginally harder, but DW heavy attacks won't give magicka back in those prolonged boss fights, so if they burn through their magicka their DPS will drop back down for a bit. Seems to me like some balance has been achieved.
...wait... Did I accidentally walk into a PVP problems thread? *backs out slowly*
But you seem to forget, as I mentioned above... DW gains a bonus NOT JUST from dual wielding, but also from bonus crafted set AND damage bonus from equipping two swords, not just using them. So that's THREE WAYS DW has an advantage over staff... and like I also said, VERY FEW players use heavy attacks, they us light/medium weaving... so the 'magicka regen' advantage is all theory, and little reality.
But that's the heart of the issue. It's not "just a couple of percentage points".Meh, it's kind of about build variety in my eyes. I'm pretty sure you regain the resource tied to your weapon from heavy attacks.
A sorcerer using DW might hit marginally harder, but DW heavy attacks won't give magicka back in those prolonged boss fights, so if they burn through their magicka their DPS will drop back down for a bit. Seems to me like some balance has been achieved.
...wait... Did I accidentally walk into a PVP problems thread? *backs out slowly*
But you seem to forget, as I mentioned above... DW gains a bonus NOT JUST from dual wielding, but also from bonus crafted set AND damage bonus from equipping two swords, not just using them. So that's THREE WAYS DW has an advantage over staff... and like I also said, VERY FEW players use heavy attacks, they us light/medium weaving... so the 'magicka regen' advantage is all theory, and little reality.
If you prefer staves because of how they look or better fit the theme of your character then why not use them? Is a couple of percentage points of dps really going to make that much of a difference?
I think once you get to that degree of detail it really starts to become more about utility and aesthetics.
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »But that's the heart of the issue. It's not "just a couple of percentage points".
Dual Wielding two swords almost doubles the amount of Spell damage a Magick User puts out when compared to using a Staff. Then factor in the extra Set-piece bonus and bevy of attacks that cannot be reflected/dodged... it's a pretty lopsided situation, and one that absolutely should not exist.
I stand by my original point: Dual Wielding two Stamina-based Swords should never add more to Spell Damage for a Magicka user than wielding a Magicka-based Staff.
I agree with you for all Magick-users. i had already edited the title, so I edited the description this time to match the desired intent of my OP.josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »There are two issues here.
0) You should say "Mages" or something, not "Sorcerers". Any of the classes should be able to pick up a staff and play a mage type of character. That's at the heart of Elder Scrolls gameplay.
1) A staff only counts as one piece in a set. It should count for two, as should the other two hand weapons. If you look at every crafted set with spell damage, it's the 4th trait. That specifically excludes it from staves, and limits that bonus to duel wield or sword and board.
2) The real problem is in the PASSIVES. Why do dual wield passives affect ALL damage, including spells, but destruction staff passives don't even improve just spells -- they only improve destruction staff spells which are already pretty awful. So no benefit to your class abilities, or even mage guild spells -- which is pretty hilarious.
Staves, especially destruction staves, need major buffs to put them on par with stamina weapons. ZOS has been seriously screwing over the spell casters lately in favor of stamina builds. What gives?
Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »I agree with you for all Magick-users. i had already edited the title, so I edited the description this time to match the desired intent of my OP.josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »There are two issues here.
0) You should say "Mages" or something, not "Sorcerers". Any of the classes should be able to pick up a staff and play a mage type of character. That's at the heart of Elder Scrolls gameplay.
1) A staff only counts as one piece in a set. It should count for two, as should the other two hand weapons. If you look at every crafted set with spell damage, it's the 4th trait. That specifically excludes it from staves, and limits that bonus to duel wield or sword and board.
2) The real problem is in the PASSIVES. Why do dual wield passives affect ALL damage, including spells, but destruction staff passives don't even improve just spells -- they only improve destruction staff spells which are already pretty awful. So no benefit to your class abilities, or even mage guild spells -- which is pretty hilarious.
Staves, especially destruction staves, need major buffs to put them on par with stamina weapons. ZOS has been seriously screwing over the spell casters lately in favor of stamina builds. What gives?
It won't let me edit the poll though, so we're kind of stuck with that.
Great observations though.
And that's exactly the reason it's unfair now.If we could get double set points on a staff then yesOtherwise it is not fair one particular build can get bonus from sets over another..
Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »In my view, it evens out because the Destruction staff gives you access to several abilities that deal solid damage while dual wielding means essentially, you have more spell damage but you don't have a weapon.
Plus, bonus! You look like a jaggoff running around with two swords, casting crystal frags over and over :P