Should Magic-users do more damage with Staves than when Dual-Wielding?

RAGUNAnoOne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Wrobel can this be addressed soon? Can we at least get a /lurk from Rich Lambert please?

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

This thread is getting a lot of good discussion, and it's pretty well apparent that the majority of commentators agree that Staves should add more to the damage of Spells than two Stamina-based swords in Dual Wielding.

It's also been readily proven that the "Range" argument holds zero weight. It's a weak, lazy cop-out argument so that the fundamentally broken nature of this situation can be simply brushed off.

@ZOS_RichLambert this needs to be fixed. Staves should add more benefit (Damage/Healing) to Spells than Dual Wielding two Stamina-based[ Swords.

This needs to be fixed ASAP!!!

Tankqull

well actually the problem is
LA+ability with staffs is NOT > than 2H+boni or DW+boni+additional set boni dmg wise wich should be the case but saddly is not.

Alucardo

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

But if staves add more magic damage that would help templars as well wouldn't it?

Their heals are already stupid. You're not making me feel any better about this solution xD

Kalebron

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

I would also be happy if they made a morph of the swords to include magicka based damage. But yes, I think that if dual wielding swords leaves no contribution to using the skill lines, then a staff should yield more damage than the swords.

Waffennacht

I believe they should be close to each other. Im more concerned about the loss of an armor bonus from losing an item.

It would be nice if 2h counted as two weapons, then I would run staff. (Not to mention the power differences)

Also, are you trying to remove the dual wield bonus or get a staff bonus or both?

Ashamray

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

RAGUNAnoOne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Ashamray wrote: »

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

Then they will be what they SHOULD be a glass cannon physical rouge spec hell DW unlike destruction staff has some great abilities and passives it doesn't need to be superior in terms of magic as well. Right now staves are so rare it is unbelievable and everyone I know but one person uses dual wield. the peope who use stamina will not be affected and those that use magic can actually use a magic weapon.

Ashamray

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

Then they will be what they SHOULD be a glass cannon physical rouge spec hell DW unlike destruction staff has some great abilities and passives it doesn't need to be superior in terms of magic as well. Right now staves are so rare it is unbelievable and everyone I know but one person uses dual wield. the peope who use stamina will not be affected and those that use magic can actually use a magic weapon.

I see D-Staff users all the time and don't understand how they can be rare.
Thoughts like "only glasscannon rogues must use DW" are stereotypic vision. ESO supports stereotypes but doesn't put them at the forefront.

Joy_Division

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Ashamray wrote: »

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Ashamray

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Yes, for me, and others who simply like magicka DW style

OmniDevil

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Ashamray wrote: »

Yes, for me, and others who simply like magicka DW style

There really is no style. You're carrying two swords around that just sit there and look pretty. Sure, if you're going for pure aesthetics, that would make sense, but then I would say leave your RP biased opinions out of it and think of it more on a functionality level.

Joy_Division

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Ashamray wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Yes, for me, and others who simply like magicka DW style

Well, I am happy for you that you can look cool with your two swords that have never been stained with a drop of blood.

But us other players who lose 700 spellpower because we need to use crummy restoration staffs would prefer that you buy a costume from the Crown store so that you can still look cool in a way that doesn't undermine our builds.

QuebraRegra

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

SWORDS > STAFF for magic? Oh Hellz no!

Fix this.

Tyrion87

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

A noob question but how does the dual wield affect spell damage? I don't see neither active nor passive abilities from the dual wield skill line that would affect spell damage/power.

QuebraRegra

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Tyrion87 wrote: »

A noob question but how does the dual wield affect spell damage? I don't see neither active nor passive abilities from the dual wield skill line that would affect spell damage/power.

weapon dmg affacts overall spell dmg. 2 weapons = 2x the dmg of a single weapon.

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ashamray wrote: »

I think DW should give the highest Spell dmg, but Destruction Staff skill line should be more attractive to make choice between weapons more interesting.
If Staff will provide more Spdmg, DWielders as magicka spec will disappear. At all.

You say this like it's a bad thing.

Yes, for me, and others who simply like magicka DW style

Well, I am happy for you that you can look cool with your two swords that have never been stained with a drop of blood.

But us other players who lose 700 spellpower because we need to use crummy restoration staffs would prefer that you buy a costume from the Crown store so that you can still look cool in a way that doesn't undermine our builds.

I cannot agree with this more. Well said.

tennant94

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

tennant94

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

Destro* skills.

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

RAGUNAnoOne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

Especially since this change would affect all classes not just sorcs. @Uriel_Nocturne I think you should change the title as this change affects all magic users and if people see the terms "sorc" and "more damage" in the same sentence people are more likely to say no just by association with sorcs specifically. Perhaps the terms "mages" and "gain more spell power" would be better terms.

or if you can't do that I have an old poll in the general discussion on this issue without the prejudicial terms

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

Especially since this change would affect all classes not just sorcs. @Uriel_Nocturne I think you should change the title as this change affects all magic users and if people see the terms "sorc" and "more damage" in the same sentence people are more likely to say no just by association with sorcs specifically. Perhaps the terms "mages" and "gain more spell power" would be better terms.

or if you can't do that I have an old poll in the general discussion on this issue without the prejudicial terms

Change made.

RAGUNAnoOne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

Especially since this change would affect all classes not just sorcs. @Uriel_Nocturne I think you should change the title as this change affects all magic users and if people see the terms "sorc" and "more damage" in the same sentence people are more likely to say no just by association with sorcs specifically. Perhaps the terms "mages" and "gain more spell power" would be better terms.

or if you can't do that I have an old poll in the general discussion on this issue without the prejudicial terms

Change made.

Description should be changed as well even add a part saying that it WAS about sorcerers hence the options saying sorcerer but that it would in fact affect all classes.

tennant94

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

tennant94 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.

LOL

Robbmrp

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

The fact that the game is setup like this is IMO a FAIL on @ZOS. Two weapons should NEVER do more spell damage than a Staff. That's the whole FREAKIN point of the Staff! They really need to fix this.....

OR

They could add in Spell Tomes..... So one weapon and a tome in the other hand to boost spell damage. That would be acceptable WHILE decreasing the spell damage from two weapons.

Duel Wield should buff your Weapon Damage over a 2h Weapon OR increase your attack speed(no Weighted trait needed) IMO.

ADarklore

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

tennant94 wrote: »

Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.

Um, right now DW with Magicka Sorcs is already OP, that is the point. That people are getting more damage using DW than using a staff, which doesn't make any sense. They are basically handed extra damage for just carrying around two weapons without even having to use them... and not just extra spell damage, but also extra crafted set bonus... it doesn't make any logical sense. Magicka players should receive a bonus for actually using a MAGICKA-based weapon, not penalized for it.

tennant94

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

I play sorc and would love to do more damage with my staff but it would be op so no, they shouldn't do more damage. The only thing that needs buffing, maybe, are the destroy skills as a lot of them are weak.

And how exactly would Staves adding more to Spell Damage than Dual-Wielding (where all of the Skills are Stamina-based) be over-powered? Would you care to elaborate?

Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.

LOL

I'm hilarious, i know.

ADarklore wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.

Um, right now DW with Magicka Sorcs is already OP, that is the point. That people are getting more damage using DW than using a staff, which doesn't make any sense. They are basically handed extra damage for just carrying around two weapons without even having to use them... and not just extra spell damage, but also extra crafted set bonus... it doesn't make any logical sense. Magicka players should receive a bonus for actually using a MAGICKA-based weapon, not penalized for it.

The damage increase for dual wield does make sense if your looking at game balance because you can't weave in light attacks while duel wielding and dw sorcs aren't op, maybe in 1v1s but in open world destro performs better.

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Robbmrp wrote: »

The fact that the game is setup like this is IMO a FAIL on @ZOS. Two weapons should NEVER do more spell damage than a Staff. That's the whole FREAKIN point of the Staff! They really need to fix this.....

OR

They could add in Spell Tomes..... So one weapon and a tome in the other hand to boost spell damage. That would be acceptable WHILE decreasing the spell damage from two weapons.

Duel Wield should buff your Weapon Damage over a 2h Weapon OR increase your attack speed(no Weighted trait needed) IMO.

ADarklore wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

Dual wielding with sorc has no spammable abilitys, so you rely on slow heavy damage. With a staff equipped you have spammable abilitys, this coupled with more frequent frag procs would make it op, in my opinion.

Um, right now DW with Magicka Sorcs is already OP, that is the point. That people are getting more damage using DW than using a staff, which doesn't make any sense. They are basically handed extra damage for just carrying around two weapons without even having to use them... and not just extra spell damage, but also extra crafted set bonus... it doesn't make any logical sense. Magicka players should receive a bonus for actually using a MAGICKA-based weapon, not penalized for it.

I agree completely with both of these posts.

To the two of you, well said.

beerninja

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

@Wrobel In this ESO Live right at this moment: https://youtu.be/ag9LVGjVzMA?t=1h2m17s you explained that dual wielding was a tradeoff for more spell damage at the loss of being able to regain magicka via heavy attacks, which makes sense, however in eso the weapon swapping mechanic exists in the game which completely negates that argument. Therefore as a spell caster for the damage dealing bar the only choice is currently dual wield for maximum damage.

This does not seem to make sense to anyone. The spell damage with dual wield should be identical to destruction staff and the only benefit of using dual wield would be for a possibility of having 1 extra item set perk at the expense of no medium or light weaves (unless you get in melee range).