How important is lore? (Poll and Discussion)

Iluvrien · January 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Any race any alliance is also lore-friendly. Every Elder Scrolls game has members of every race living in the province it's set in. Tons of the books found in those games talk about members of races not considered native to a particular province living in that province. It would be lore-shattering to have only native races in each alliance.

Only up to a point. It is about proportion. Of course there will be a few members of most races in most of the locations we are likely to visit in Tamriel...

... but I also spent a rather surreal evening in Davon's watch when there were more Altmer than any one of the techincally "native" races. Any race in any alliance isn't, in and of itself, a problem for the lore. It does become more problematic when you realise that the players outnumber the residents. That means that the racial demographic of any particular settlement isn't defined by its geographical location or resident population... but by the meta/favourite racial selection of the playerbase.

That is where it gets problematic for me.

See and that's another story entirely. Ideally you want the number of "non-native" races in any given alliance to be limited, while the "native" races are more common. That would be the most lore-friendly. I don't know how you could try to implement that in an MMO though. Going only "native" races is lore-breaking for sure, but when the "non-natives" outnumber the "natives" that's also problematic.

Simple, have the players confined to the three races that are available in each faction area, and then have ZOS supply the ones who are non-natives as NPCs. That way you retain the primary population balance, have a few non-natives and also emphasise the presence of those who are "far from home" through story and questlines.

Their mistake was placing the "any race, any faction" option in the crown store. The orignal (launch) population would initially be high, but would (and has) decreased over time. If that had really been kept as a pre-order exclusive, as had been originally expected, then this would be far less of a problem now.

Handing it to the entire population (with a simple store purchase) and then expecting the racial demographics to make any kind of sense was lunacy. Of course, I doubt anyone at ZOS actually considered it from that angle.

xoduspaladin · January 2016

I think its important to maintain the lore. That being said Zenimax has kinda put themselves in a bind with some of the things they have already allowed, and the fact that this is an MMO and some people expect certain things that you find in other MMOs (that could be lore-breaking) does not help. Ultimately, from a business standpoint, it will come down to who are subbing the most and more likely to maintain the subs, the people requesting lore-breaking features or those who do not.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2016

Thallia wrote: »

Well Technically they have already moved away from most lore as these events have never happend when looking back at Skyrim, Oblivion, etc.

Zeni tried to explain is for saying that they burnt all the books dating to these events but that isnt a very valid excuse for me and im sure for a lot of people aswell.

EDIT:

What im really trying to say is that LEts say in Skyrim and the other games. No one ever mentioned, and not even the respected and grand Scholars, Ever mention Molag Bal nearly destroying the whole god damn world. That can just be gon around by, bye just saying "they burnt some books" or something like that. Now all the Lore crazies have accepted these events but still... I hope in the next Elder scrolls game there is atleast SOME to very little referance to the world nearly ending.

Theyve stated numerous times that they chose this era because of the lack of lore. Theyre simply filling the holes left by previous Elder Scrolls Games. There is no need to explain it further. The Lore-Fanatics upset that they arent able to explain away why these things are written about in the older games are idiots that should be ignored.

Elsonso · January 2016

They should not violate or change firmly existing Elder Scrolls lore. Outside of that, if it is new lore-friendly to existing lore, I have no problem. I don't think they should just make up lore as a "way around" the lore, either.

There is no issue related to events that are not mentioned in Arena and later. Everyone expects that a Dragon Break is the answer, and it is a lore friendly answer, even if it is reminiscent of the 1980s Dallas Dream Season. They can wipe the whole Soul Burst, the Three Banners War, and even the changes to Cyrodiil geography, from all recorded history. Ultimately, this is the decision of Todd Howard, not ZOS, and will be evident in TES 6.

This gives ZOS a lot of necessary leeway, so long as the don't go too crazy with new lore.

SevenKingdoms · January 2016

I've been hoping nothing from the game was canon. I think they already screwed things up.

Robo_Hobo · January 2016

Iluvrien wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Any race any alliance is also lore-friendly. Every Elder Scrolls game has members of every race living in the province it's set in. Tons of the books found in those games talk about members of races not considered native to a particular province living in that province. It would be lore-shattering to have only native races in each alliance.

Only up to a point. It is about proportion. Of course there will be a few members of most races in most of the locations we are likely to visit in Tamriel...

... but I also spent a rather surreal evening in Davon's watch when there were more Altmer than any one of the techincally "native" races. Any race in any alliance isn't, in and of itself, a problem for the lore. It does become more problematic when you realise that the players outnumber the residents. That means that the racial demographic of any particular settlement isn't defined by its geographical location or resident population... but by the meta/favourite racial selection of the playerbase.

That is where it gets problematic for me.

See and that's another story entirely. Ideally you want the number of "non-native" races in any given alliance to be limited, while the "native" races are more common. That would be the most lore-friendly. I don't know how you could try to implement that in an MMO though. Going only "native" races is lore-breaking for sure, but when the "non-natives" outnumber the "natives" that's also problematic.

Simple, have the players confined to the three races that are available in each faction area, and then have ZOS supply the ones who are non-natives as NPCs. That way you retain the primary population balance, have a few non-natives and also emphasise the presence of those who are "far from home" through story and questlines.

Their mistake was placing the "any race, any faction" option in the crown store. The orignal (launch) population would initially be high, but would (and has) decreased over time. If that had really been kept as a pre-order exclusive, as had been originally expected, then this would be far less of a problem now.

Handing it to the entire population (with a simple store purchase) and then expecting the racial demographics to make any kind of sense was lunacy. Of course, I doubt anyone at ZOS actually considered it from that angle.

Or you could just ignore other players as a canon part of the game world, that's what I do. It solves any million-vestige Xxprokillerl33txX Altmer riding flaming undead Senche-tigers in the middle of Morrowind immersion-breaking problem for me.

LadyNalcarya · January 2016

SevenKingdoms wrote: »

I've been hoping nothing from the game was canon. I think they already screwed things up.

Umm...

https://twitter.com/tesonline/status/372017971423498240

And I dont understand why so many people hate changing and expanding the lore. TES lore is not like religious canon or something, its a living story. Every game of the series added new facts and changed existing stuff, and that's how it evolutioned from semi-generic D&D style rpg to what it is now. If Bethesda developers were as purist as some of the fans, we would've never seen Morrowind...

Anemonean · January 2016

I'm huge into the lore of this series and am a purist in alot of ways but I think it's foolish to want ESO to remain entirely within the realm of established lore. How the hell would they surprise us otherwise?

We got Lawrence at the helm and he's been faithful to the aesthetic of the series so far, in my opinion.

All I really want is for them to stick with certain conventions in the lore. Things like the Dwemer, Falmer, Atmorans, Yokudans, should be left somewhat alone. If theres ever a DLC for this game that explains what happened to the Dwemer I for one would be really disappointed. Its the mystery that makes it compelling, damn it!

The other thing that I think makes TES compelling is the otherworldliness it can have. How it can sometimes thrash fantasy tropes in interesting ways. They kinda have strayed away from that with Oblivion & Skyrim but non-generic fantasy is where TES as a whole really shines. The wierd otherness of MWs bug centric culture, The elves that aren't completely beholden to tolkein, the orcs who aren't all shallow noble savage tropes, the redguards who aren't entirely caricatures of victorian orientalist muslims. All these things should be focused on in the creation of new lore.

Whats been established is so rich that I think that all new lore should reference and be reverent to it. Creating new exciting content that just fits with the old. Even though its 'fantasy' I like my made up magical worlds to have some sort of cohesion in them too. A framework of reality and history thats then warped to its breaking point. On that basis alone I don't think players should get things like dragon mounts or bosses and I'm mostly opposed to new races being made, but I don't see why we cant see new daedra, new spells, new characters and dungeons, exploration of lesser known areas and customs, etc.

I hope that this game and the series as a whole makes plenty of new and different lore with the caveat that It should always attempt to enrich the world, play off (but not be a slave to) whats established, and not fall prey to familiarity with other fantasy stories and their cliches and tropes.