Axe of Belharza and Faction Lock not enforced?

LegacyDM · December 2015

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

Don't go with the yellow then. Blood for the pact!

But seriously, yeah, it's an oversight from Zenimax most likely, like so many other things.

Docmandu · December 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

ROFL.. seriously dude! The faction lock isn't there so you can safely PvE Telvar stones. It just unlocks the entrance to IC for your side, there can still be enemies in there. When IC flips, people that are in there, will remain in there.

iotw not a bug but intended feature!

LegacyDM · December 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

ROFL.. seriously dude! The faction lock isn't there so you can safely PvE Telvar stones. It just unlocks the entrance to IC for your side, there can still be enemies in there. When IC flips, people that are in there, will remain in there.

iotw not a bug but intended feature!

Really? How do you know what ZOS intentions are? maybe its for PVErs who want to experience imperial city but do not want to PVP? Gated is a great option for those that dont want the pressure or hassle of getting ganked. If its gated, enemy faction should not be allowed to remain or enter, period. They should have coded it so that when it flips and you log, the next time you login you are back in cyrodil. Hence the word gated. And if you are in IC and it flips, you should be automatically ported to back to cyrodil. Leaving people in there is not gated and a poor decision. There really is no advantage to playing in this campaign if its truly not gated. That ia probably why noone plays it anyways and pop bars are always low. Chances are they will scrap it and use it for a non CP campaign. Anyways, I read the patch notes. Nowhere did it say, that people are allowed to remain when it flips. If it had, I wouldn;t be carrying around 15k stones in a perceived safe faction lock zone.

anitajoneb17_ESO · December 2015

Docmandu wrote: »

The faction lock isn't there so you can safely PvE Telvar stones.

Of course it is : that's the only meaning of it. I don't understand why ZOS leaves people inside after flipping. At least, people should be thrown out after any PvP-death.

OP, I feel for you, I had the same strategy when I first wene to a gated IC to farm stones, I was running around with over 10K stones and got ganked by a red. Luckily he was alone and I won the fight, but it could have ended as ugly as it did for you.

Anyway, ZOS has not described the rules of the game very precisely when it comes to IC, and they also changed them several times since the original concept, hence a lot a confusion.

Shader_Shibes · December 2015

Yeah, in my eyes, once the gates are flipped all other factions should be kicked out.

kevlarto_ESO · December 2015

Yep does not kick you out when the map changes and I'm not sure but I think even if you die it doesn't kick you out you can spawn inside I think you have to go through the door and then you will not be able to get back in unless your faction controls the keeps. Not well thought out or a huge oversight

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2015

The gated IC access was supposed to encourage people to fight in outer cyrodiil. But like most things ZOS implements, it was done half assed, then changed the last minute when PvE'ers cried that they were entitled to the imperial city even if their faction didn't have the keeps.

So ZOS gave in and made all campaigns unlocked but one. That is like having two stacks of cookies, one for $5 and the other for free. Of course people are going to do what requires the least amount of effort. So Everyone just goes to the unlocked campaign and AD thought they could get a free buff/grind server out of all this.

If ALL campaigns had keep locks then I might support the kick out mechanic. But because AD thinks they can create a risk-free carebear paradise for their PvE'ers, I'm glad they are getting ganked.

I am sick of PvE'ers thinking they are entitled to a risk free cyrodiil. Do you really have to have a padded, safe version of everything to be happy? Maybe ZOS should program the NPCs to give you a hug at low health instead of killing you.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO · December 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The gated IC access was supposed to encourage people to fight in outer cyrodiil. But like most things ZOS implements, it was done half assed, then changed the last minute when PvE'ers cried that they were entitled to the imperial city even if their faction didn't have the keeps.

So ZOS gave in and made all campaigns unlocked but one. That is like having two stacks of cookies, one for $5 and the other for free. Of course people are going to do what requires the least amount of effort. So Everyone just goes to the unlocked campaign and AD thought they could get a free buff/grind server out of all this.

If ALL campaigns had keep locks then I might support the kick out mechanic. But because AD thinks they can create a risk-free carebear paradise for their PvE'ers, I'm glad they are getting ganked.

I am sick of PvE'ers thinking they are entitled to a risk free cyrodiil. Do you really have to have a padded, safe version of everything to be happy? Maybe ZOS should program the NPCs to give you a hug at low health instead of killing you.

Yet that's exactly what many PvPers want, for noone to kill them apparently, just reading the pvp forums, as if we'd be listening to PvPers all we'd have is pillow fights with extra soft pillows just to make sure noone gets hurt.

Waseem · December 2015

they cant do writs, upgrade mount or pledges or whatever,, people with many ALTs would just dump their chars there to farm stuff :P

tinythinker · December 2015

Don't worry, Wheeler said they have been considering having one instance of IC to which all campaigns will go.

mike.eso · December 2015

Lol the faction lock was never intended to provide a safe PVE environment with in a PVP zone. It was intended to add another level or objective to PVP by forcing people to focus on objectives other than those for scoring...unfortunately with Axe keeps both control access and scoring and there for didn't really change anything.

AD has tried to make a safe PVE zone of it by constantly holding the map but it is still as PVP zone...if you don't like the threat of being killed by other players and losing stones then GET THE **** OUT OF PVP.

There are also downsides of being in Axe sewers if you are not yellow, you can't ever leave to do anything else unless you think you can get access back...which isn't easy with the wild Panda roaming the map

Panda

OdinForge · December 2015

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AlnilamE · December 2015

That's always been like that. As long as you don't leave, you will be back in the sewers when you log in to that character. I think the exception being if the campaign is pop-locked for your faction when you log in, in which case you will not be able to get into Cyrodiil (and IC as an extension of it).

So yes, always watch your back in IC, even if it's your "buff" campaign.

Magdalina · December 2015

It's okay. Characters that were there when gates locked, will stay there. My baby(1 level left -__________-) AD got ganked there yesterday by an EP, was actually fun since me and my grinding buddy managed to kill him in our half trashed PvE gear lol

It adds the element of risk and fun. Just like headbutting into a banner boss.

ralonasan · December 2015

@rokrdt05 Rekkkkkttttttt thanks for the stones. Feel free to keep farming for us.

Digerati · December 2015

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

This is ***. Yellow has the full map and the campaign is faction locked for yellow. I just lost 15k stones because a red is still able to stay in imperial city if they log out and log back in when they lose faction lock? Stupid mechanic and defeats the purpose of even having faction lock if opposing faction can camp and gank in sewers.

Don't go with the yellow then. Blood for the pact!
But seriously, yeah, it's an oversight from Zenimax most likely, like so many other things.

I think they wanted it mirrored kinda after darkness falls in DAoC... when your faction unlocked Darkness Falls, the place would get flooded with goons... and you couldn't respawn inside, so the lock meant something more...

There's 2 problems with the current implementation of faction lock:
1. You can respawn inside, so your gankers don't have to leave when you kill them (simple fix. If unlocked, spawn inside, else kick them out.)
2. IC is not as attractive as Darkness Falls... Darkness Falls was a huge source of income and arguably the best grinding dungeon in the game, for any level! the deeper you delved, the higher level the mobs... Big issue in IC is that the mobs are really difficult, so low levels simply cannot grind there. The starting rooms should be toned down a bit (along with their rewards), increase mob density but move mobs a bit so that they're easily avoidable (for ease of travel). So that way the more powerful grinding groups can delve a bit deeper for more challenging mobs and higher rewards, and low levels can grind up top...

So, to make faction lock work way better we would need:
1. remove the ability to respawn inside when your gate is locked
2. make IC more attractive and more plentiful, so that it could fulfil the needs of a zerg of noobies.

LegacyDM · December 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The gated IC access was supposed to encourage people to fight in outer cyrodiil. But like most things ZOS implements, it was done half assed, then changed the last minute when PvE'ers cried that they were entitled to the imperial city even if their faction didn't have the keeps.

So ZOS gave in and made all campaigns unlocked but one. That is like having two stacks of cookies, one for $5 and the other for free. Of course people are going to do what requires the least amount of effort. So Everyone just goes to the unlocked campaign and AD thought they could get a free buff/grind server out of all this.

If ALL campaigns had keep locks then I might support the kick out mechanic. But because AD thinks they can create a risk-free carebear paradise for their PvE'ers, I'm glad they are getting ganked.

I am sick of PvE'ers thinking they are entitled to a risk free cyrodiil. Do you really have to have a padded, safe version of everything to be happy? Maybe ZOS should program the NPCs to give you a hug at low health instead of killing you.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

The gated IC access was supposed to encourage people to fight in outer cyrodiil. But like most things ZOS implements, it was done half assed, then changed the last minute when PvE'ers cried that they were entitled to the imperial city even if their faction didn't have the keeps.

So ZOS gave in and made all campaigns unlocked but one. That is like having two stacks of cookies, one for $5 and the other for free. Of course people are going to do what requires the least amount of effort. So Everyone just goes to the unlocked campaign and AD thought they could get a free buff/grind server out of all this.

If ALL campaigns had keep locks then I might support the kick out mechanic. But because AD thinks they can create a risk-free carebear paradise for their PvE'ers, I'm glad they are getting ganked.

I am sick of PvE'ers thinking they are entitled to a risk free cyrodiil. Do you really have to have a padded, safe version of everything to be happy? Maybe ZOS should program the NPCs to give you a hug at low health instead of killing you.

Yet that's exactly what many PvPers want, for noone to kill them apparently, just reading the pvp forums, as if we'd be listening to PvPers all we'd have is pillow fights with extra soft pillows just to make sure noone gets hurt.

Really? Pvpers have 3 full pvp campaigns to choose from. Do you know how hard it is to get vr16 mats for pvers? Insulting pvers because they want a safe environment to be able to compete in end game pve serves no purpose. Faction lock isn't permanent it rotates frequently. Therefore pvers don't have access to stones 24/7 so constant farming is not possible. In the rare instance their faction has the map they should be able to get stones in peace.

Look I get it. I go to azura, haderus, and true flame to pvp and farm stones from other players. I would have no issues losing or gaining 15k stones in a purely pvp campaign. But hanging out waiting for an IC to change factions so that I can gank players in an area that I should be locked out of is just an abuse of a poorly designed mechanic and is really really pathetic on the players part. Insult and call people carebears all day long. It doesn't change the fact that pvers want access to stones to make end gear like everyone else. Stones should not be unique to the pvp crowd. And currently the only way for pvers to get stones without the fear of getting yanked is via a faction lock that doesn't work.

tangy.citrus · December 2015

Axe is meant to provide competitive PVE with IC. If you faction lock (like yellow has done for the majority of the time since axe was introduced) then the other factions shouldnt be allowed in and should be kicked out of IC and forced to retake keeps if they want to.

The purpose isnt to enable gankers to destroy the axe campaign, its for competitive PVE. If you want to grind tel var, you need to pvp for the keeps. Red should be forced to retake keeps instead of just leaving their f uc king nightblades in there ready to gank you when you have a huge trash pull.

Yinmaigao · December 2015

*cough*
Darkness falls dungeon a la DAoC....

LegacyDM · December 2015

tangy.citrus wrote: »

Axe is meant to provide competitive PVE with IC. If you faction lock (like yellow has done for the majority of the time since axe was introduced) then the other factions shouldnt be allowed in and should be kicked out of IC and forced to retake keeps if they want to.

The purpose isnt to enable gankers to destroy the axe campaign, its for competitive PVE. If you want to grind tel var, you need to pvp for the keeps. Red should be forced to retake keeps instead of just leaving their f uc king nightblades in there ready to gank you when you have a huge trash pull.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Was a VR16 red NB that ganked me on my lvl 20 Templar. Pathetic.

Digerati · December 2015

Yinmaigao wrote: »

*cough*
Darkness falls dungeon a la DAoC....

Exactly. Only difference is that you can RESPAWN INSIDE. You couldn't do that in DF. You'd get sent back home and that'd be it. Also, when DF flipped, it would get FLOODED. So, right after a flip, there'd be a group or two left over and a bunch of stealthers floating around... if you held onto DF long enough, it would become a full-on safezone for your Realm. Respawning inside totally invalidates the locked gate, it should be fixed.

Also, even when IC was first released and it was totally faction-locked, I've never seen any side rush to IC once it was unlocked... It's just not attractive enough.

We need to be able to send the nightblades home and it needs to be more attractive to ALL power levels. The mobs are just too tough for noobs. I really enjoy grinding the mobs on my higher levels... but I've attempted to go in on a newbie and just got wrekt. my level 20 nightblade can take a mob down in 2 seconds but can't survive his two friends.... there's no single-pulling and no noob-friendly mobs.

Sheezabeast · December 2015

Well that's what happens when you prance around with that many stones like you own the place

LegacyDM · December 2015

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Well that's what happens when you prance around with that many stones like you own the place

You obviously didn't read my post and missed the point. I was walking around with that many stones for the 4 times multiplier thinking I was safe. Who would have thought that faction lock doesn't actually mean faction lock?

Sheezabeast · December 2015

Oh like you couldn't have banked them! You're so silly

LegacyDM · December 2015

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Oh like you couldn't have banked them! You're so silly

Why would I bank them and waste time on my xp pot running back to my grind spot when I believe to be safe cause of faction lock? I don't think your understanding the logic here or the concept of faction lock. I'm done with this conversation.

Sheezabeast · December 2015

Because you can use a sigil to bank them and go right back to the sewers?

Digerati · December 2015

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Oh like you couldn't have banked them! You're so silly

Why would I bank them and waste time on my xp pot running back to my grind spot when I believe to be safe cause of faction lock? I don't think your understanding the logic here or the concept of faction lock. I'm done with this conversation.

why did you assume it was safe? The faction lock means the gates are barred, it doesn't mean there's no NightBlades lurking...

You shouldn't be able to respawn in the sewers if your entrance is locked, but they'll never make it so you get kicked out when the entrance flips... So you should always be on high awareness when in IC. Use the buddy system, bank the stones you're not willing to risk, and keep your RML burning...

Was this not clear to you? Maybe there could be a more noticeable disclaimer so you realize that it's not a safezone, regardless of who has it currently unlocked...

LegacyDM · December 2015

Digerati wrote: »

joshdm2001_ESO wrote: »

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Oh like you couldn't have banked them! You're so silly

Why would I bank them and waste time on my xp pot running back to my grind spot when I believe to be safe cause of faction lock? I don't think your understanding the logic here or the concept of faction lock. I'm done with this conversation.

why did you assume it was safe? The faction lock means the gates are barred, it doesn't mean there's no NightBlades lurking...

You shouldn't be able to respawn in the sewers if your entrance is locked, but they'll never make it so you get kicked out when the entrance flips... So you should always be on high awareness when in IC. Use the buddy system, bank the stones you're not willing to risk, and keep your RML burning...

Was this not clear to you? Maybe there could be a more noticeable disclaimer so you realize that it's not a safezone, regardless of who has it currently unlocked...

Duh. Patch notes didn't define faction lock as gated access but under certain conditions. Faction lock is faction lock. It makes no sense that people can remain hence my post. If people can remain and gank to their Hearts content this isn't really faction lock now is it. And this campaign should serve a different purpose. We can go around around but bottom line this needs to be fixed or Zos should be more transparent in its logic.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2015

tangy.citrus wrote: »

Axe is meant to provide competitive PVE with IC. If you faction lock (like yellow has done for the majority of the time since axe was introduced) then the other factions shouldnt be allowed in and should be kicked out of IC and forced to retake keeps if they want to.

The purpose isnt to enable gankers to destroy the axe campaign, its for competitive PVE. If you want to grind tel var, you need to pvp for the keeps. Red should be forced to retake keeps instead of just leaving their f uc king nightblades in there ready to gank you when you have a huge trash pull.

Simple answer for you= NO it's not..

JackDaniell · December 2015

IC = PvP zone, if that's not your cup of tea go to wrothgar.

Also, the devs mentioned on ESO live that gated acess campaigns work exactly like the do now, they encouraged players to capture the ring then leave their toons in IC so that once they ring flips back they can go hunt stones from that opposing faction. I'm sorry to hear you lost your stones but that is how this zone is intended to function. The added risk of other players makes sense in IC as you get some of the best sellable loot in the game from their. Just like cyrodiil dolmens are the only ones that drop v16 lich gear, it's supposed to be dangerous. No risk no reward.