Should Magic-users do more damage with Staves than when Dual-Wielding?

Septimus_Magna · December 2015

N/A, I don't care either way.

Currently there's a benefit of using DW on magicka builds (more spell dmg) and benefit for Destro Staff (free ranged weapons attacks) plus 5 magicka based weapons kills.

The idea of magicka builds getting more spell dmg with 2 steel swords is a little strange.

Recently I have been exploring the idea of DW wands and could they be implemented.

Woodworking could have the option to craft one-handed staffs a.k.a. wands, using the destro staff skill line.
The wands shoot projectiles similar to the two-handed variants.
DW wands should give the same amount of spell dmg as DW swords.

Easy to implement and it wouldnt buff magicka builds too much because the destro staff skills are meh.

TheDarkShadow · December 2015

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

Why can't we have bound weapons just like in Skyrim? This come to another question: Why can't we have schools of magics and weapons art like in Skyrim where you can pick any skills you want and train it? Why ZoS forced the classes onto us, like "here, if you play this class you have to take these skills". But I guess it's too late to ask this question. I think the first idea is to make all kind of weapons give both weapon and spell damage is so everyone can "play like you want". But since there is no soft cap and hybrid builds are just horrible so no one use them.

Anyway, back to topic, if ZoS want "stamina" weapon only give weapon damage and staffs only give spell damage, at least give me bound weapon for spell damage first because I HATE staffs.

FriedEggSandwich · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

I voted yes mainly because, as someone else said, DW already gives you an advantage through the possibility of an extra set piece + another weapon enchant. I actually think they should do similar damage, and then the difference between them would be; staves give you the option to light/heavy attack from range, DW gives you another set piece. Seems fair but I'm no balance expert.

Reefo · December 2015

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

Staves have the option of range and thus survivability. So would make an imbalance and result in every magicka user using destro resto.
Dual wield has damage.
Sword and shield has, well the shield.
Balanced.
Plus I like having the extra set slot. And have higher damage.

Eddzo101 · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Staves are built for magic damage
Leave Gandalf alone
He didn't get that sword till he found it in the troll cave with Bilbo in the Hobbit

Rune_Relic · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Currently there's a benefit of using DW on magicka builds (more spell dmg) and benefit for Destro Staff (free ranged weapons attacks) plus 5 magicka based weapons kills.

The idea of magicka builds getting more spell dmg with 2 steel swords is a little strange.

Recently I have been exploring the idea of DW wands and could they be implemented.

Woodworking could have the option to craft one-handed staffs a.k.a. wands, using the destro staff skill line.
The wands shoot projectiles similar to the two-handed variants.
DW wands should give the same amount of spell dmg as DW swords.

Easy to implement and it wouldnt buff magicka builds too much because the destro staff skills are meh.

Exactly this. The idea is mutual.
+ you can tie 1 element to each wand like tying poison and disease to each dual wield physical weapon.
+ woodworking gets levelled really quick compared to smithing and clothing so adding weapons to the list would balance things out crafting wise.

You can take it further with talisman + wand rather than 1h&s.
The talisman/totem given enhanced spell resists & shield giving enhanced physical resist.

daemonios · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Reefo wrote: »

Staves have the option of range and thus survivability. So would make an imbalance and result in every magicka user using destro resto.
Dual wield has damage.
Sword and shield has, well the shield.
Balanced.
Plus I like having the extra set slot. And have higher damage.

Again with the range argument.

Not all sorcs are ranged. Not even all staff skills are ranged. Ranged players are still often targeted by ranged mobs/boss mechanics. Melee players have tons of survivability options: shields, heals, dodges, invisibility...

The range argument is just lazy, at least for the game as it stands. It simply doesn't hold any water.

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

CyrusArya wrote: »

Destro staves should be buffed, ATM all the skills are pretty lame and passives underwhelming. That being said, it's a good thing that dual wield gives me more raw damage. Gives more options for builds and play styles[/b] and there is a very real trade off. That increased damage comes at the cost of being able to heavy weave weapon attacks with other skills. Sorcerer in particular is most affected by this, because they dont have awesome class skills that can be spammed whilst having dual wield equipped such as whip, sweeps, or swallow soul/concealed weapon. As such, the best Sorcerer builds use staves in PvP anyways. In PvE destro staff is a must with dual wield only being used for executes and overload.

So for these reasons, I think the system is fine as is. Dual wield being relevant to magicka builds gives the game variety and and allows for different builds to be viable. I don't wanna see magicka builds all using only one weapon, that would be lame. But once again, I firmly support destro staffs being buffed in a meaningful way.

Umm, how often have you seen a player that doesn't dual wield in at least one bar? if anything it encourages metas meaning it takes away options by making one superior to everything else. Staves have a cost of not being able to restore stamina which is equally if not MORE important for a mage so the tradeoffs are bad when you use a staff as well. also yeah buff the damn destruction staff

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

daemonios wrote: »

Reefo wrote: »

Staves have the option of range and thus survivability. So would make an imbalance and result in every magicka user using destro resto.
Dual wield has damage.
Sword and shield has, well the shield.
Balanced.
Plus I like having the extra set slot. And have higher damage.

Again with the range argument.

Not all sorcs are ranged. Not even all staff skills are ranged. Ranged players are still often targeted by ranged mobs/boss mechanics. Melee players have tons of survivability options: shields, heals, dodges, invisibility...

The range argument is just lazy, at least for the game as it stands. It simply doesn't hold any water.

Also in PvP ANYONE can reflect destruction staff attacks/skills thanks to defensive stance, bows don't have this problem only with DKs so the range issue is even less effective. Plus we can't sneak attack with staves while melee and bow users can, staves has a lot of you can't do this issues

Merlin13KAGL · December 2015

It should require an arcane weapon to increase spell power, period. It doesn't mean they couldn't introduce arcane versions of melee weapons for those who actually use the playstyle (the ones that actually swing the swords, not just carry them around like Mom's purse @ the mall.)

Staves should do equivalent damage at close range, and perhaps take a reduction with distance.

This is to automatically counter the argument that "Melee is more dangerous (to you) and should hit harder accordingly"

Double slot items should also count as two set pieces and allow double enchants.

Even the playing field and lose the required novelty of dual wield for added spell power.

You need a fourth poll option, as this one is closest to "Yes," yet it different enough to warrant an "Other."

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Also, I may get yelled at here but feel that the staves should not give as much weapon damage as a bow or 1HS...

KillKapps · December 2015

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

First of all I would like to say my vote was casted on how the game mechanic currently is. The staff has way more utility anyways. You have all the ranged advantage when using a staff as apposed to duel wielding.

Now from a perspective on making sense. I totally agree that a staff should do more spell damage. But that's just not how it works with the game mechanics.

Joy_Division · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

If it were so stamina melee builds could equip staffs for more weapon damage, ESO would be the best fantasy game ever.

danno8 · December 2015

All weapons should come in (and be craftable as) either magical or physical, and the damage they do with Lt and hvy attacks would then scale of the appropriate damage stat.

Also, a physical damage stave would become mêlée range physical damage with the benefit of being able to use staff skills but returning stamina on hvy attacks too.

A magical based dual wield for example could now do magic damage (or fire, ice etc ..) and return magicka on heavy attacks.

Weapons should not add to your weapon/spell damage innately imo. Only enchants or set bonuses should do that.

This would open the door to more variety, skills and be more in tune with the "play how you want" (lol) mantra.

Essiaga · December 2015

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

As the title states, should Sorcerers using Staves do more damage.heal more damage when using Staves than a Sorcerer Dual-Wielding Swords?

Let's see if we can get enough support to get this ship righted.

Telling that you you alone mention Sorcs when there are 3 other classes in the game. Sad state of ESO.

KramUzibra · December 2015

N/A, I don't care either way.

I honestly don't care if they did three times more damage with staffs they are sorcerers it makes sense. What doesn't make sense is they can buff up and have resistance like a tank in light armor, basically wearing a dress or tshirt and pants and still hit like a canon. Doesn't make any f****** sense

KramUzibra · December 2015

N/A, I don't care either way.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

americansteel wrote: »

any magic class using STAFF should do more spell damage.

What this guy said. Like if sorcerers get more magic damage with staffs then I want DKs to block more with shields and Nords to deal more damage with 2H weapons and Argonians to deal more damage with bows and DW and of course Templars to heal more with restoration staffs and deal more damage with 2H.

Excellent point!

Masuimi · December 2015

It's just dumb that sorcerers are forced to use dual wield for maximum spell damage.

And by dumb I mean, makes no sense whatsoever

Alucardo · December 2015

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

Considering sorcs already have high burst, good mobility, and can tank reasonably well, they don't need to do more damage with a staff. I would literally hate to see this happen.
This game is already full of Nightblades and Sorcerers. Let's not make it any worse.

Buff DKs and Templars before you look at anything else.

Masuimi · December 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Considering sorcs already have high burst, good mobility, and can tank reasonably well, they don't need to do more damage with a staff. I would literally hate to see this happen.
This game is already full of Nightblades and Sorcerers. Let's not make it any worse.

Buff DKs and Templars before you look at anything else.

Too bad it takes ZOS months to do anything.

Asking Sorcs to wait until x,y,z happens is asking them to wait 6 months more (minimum) for something so basic.

tennant94 · December 2015

No, it's perfectly reasonable for Sorc's using Dual-Wielding to do more Spell damage.

They should do the same amount of damage. The extra set bonus dual wielding gives is enough for that extra damage if you choose.

Tryxus · December 2015

Sorcs? No
NightBLADES? Yes

DaveMoeDee · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

americansteel wrote: »

any magic class using STAFF should do more spell damage.

All classes are magic classes as all class skills initially use magicka.

I would say that magicka skills should work better with a staff and stamina skill should work better with a stamina weapon. The problem with this is that both magicka weapons are range weapons and there is no magicka melee weapon. This makes being a battlemage problematic, and dual daggers (or dual maces due to clerics with maces seems iconic to me) seems to make sense as a weapon for a battlemage. For that reason, my feelings aren't strong on this issue.

DaveMoeDee · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Why can't we have bound weapons just like in Skyrim? This come to another question: Why can't we have schools of magics and weapons art like in Skyrim where you can pick any skills you want and train it? Why ZoS forced the classes onto us, like "here, if you play this class you have to take these skills". But I guess it's too late to ask this question. I think the first idea is to make all kind of weapons give both weapon and spell damage is so everyone can "play like you want". But since there is no soft cap and hybrid builds are just horrible so no one use them.

Anyway, back to topic, if ZoS want "stamina" weapon only give weapon damage and staffs only give spell damage, at least give me bound weapon for spell damage first because I HATE staffs.

This isn't Skyrim.

Tryxus · December 2015

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

Why can't we have bound weapons just like in Skyrim? This come to another question: Why can't we have schools of magics and weapons art like in Skyrim where you can pick any skills you want and train it? Why ZoS forced the classes onto us, like "here, if you play this class you have to take these skills". But I guess it's too late to ask this question. I think the first idea is to make all kind of weapons give both weapon and spell damage is so everyone can "play like you want". But since there is no soft cap and hybrid builds are just horrible so no one use them.

Anyway, back to topic, if ZoS want "stamina" weapon only give weapon damage and staffs only give spell damage, at least give me bound weapon for spell damage first because I HATE staffs.

This isn't Skyrim.

Actually, NB have some form of Bound Weapons:

- Bound Sword: Death Stroke, Teleport Strike
- Bound Dagger: Assassin's Blade
- Bound Bow: Grim Focus (Assassin's Will proc)

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Alucardo wrote: »

Considering sorcs already have high burst, good mobility, and can tank reasonably well, they don't need to do more damage with a staff. I would literally hate to see this happen.
This game is already full of Nightblades and Sorcerers. Let's not make it any worse.

Buff DKs and Templars before you look at anything else.

But if staves add more magic damage that would help templars as well wouldn't it?

danno8 · December 2015

RAGUNAnoOne wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Considering sorcs already have high burst, good mobility, and can tank reasonably well, they don't need to do more damage with a staff. I would literally hate to see this happen.
This game is already full of Nightblades and Sorcerers. Let's not make it any worse.

Buff DKs and Templars before you look at anything else.

But if staves add more magic damage that would help templars as well wouldn't it?

Weapons shouldn't innately add to your spell or physical damage.

Your spell or physical damage should add to your light/heavy attacks.

All weapons should come in a magical/physical variety.

Cathexis · December 2015

I thought staves do more since you can long range light and heavy attack weeve.

Ceridwynne · December 2015

I wish all the weapons were a little more balanced so that you can use whatever you want. Right now to have top dps, magicka users HAVE to use 2 swords. Why can't it be maces or even a two handed axe. Stamina users have a FEW more choices but all magicka users end up exactly the same (staff/dual swords).

I would really like my magicka templar to use resto staff and two hander, but the difference in power is too great compared to dual swords.

Right now all magicka builds are geared the exact same way. Can we please get a little variety?

RAGUNAnoOne · December 2015

Yes, Sorcerers using Staves should do the most damage with their Spells.

Cathexis wrote: »

I thought staves do more since you can long range light and heavy attack weeve.

Distance does not make up for the lack of added spell damage especially when you factor
A. Reflects that any class can use. (PVP)
B. The slow speed of the projectiles (basic attacks).
C. Harness Magicka (PVP)
D. Damage resistance of CPs and Elm defender (PVP)
F . The lower spell damage period.
G. Bosses have no weaknesses but possibly high resistance (PVE)
E. Unable to sneak attack
F. DOTs weak and cleansable (PvP)
G. The moves suck and every move has at least one class move that is better (destruction)
E. the bug that randomly forces you to complete a heavy attack and locks everything until you do.