Nerf Wrecking Blow

josh.lackey_ESO · December 2015

Don't need to say anything else.

DannyLV702 · December 2015

My only issue is that it empowers itself making it hard to resist spamming it. It usually only kills me if I'm outnumbered though. I think it's fine how it is

Artemisshrikes · December 2015

how about no

PainfulFAFA · December 2015

nerf it and you destroy stam DKs and stam Sorc.

byCrux · December 2015

It's one of the easiest moves to counter lmao. Block it, circle them, or you can literally walk right though them to cancel it.

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2015

The only issue with Wrecking Blow is it Empowering itself...it shouldn't Empower itself. other then that, its fine.

I also don't think ranged attacks like Dark Flare should Empower themselves either..

Poxheart · December 2015

Wrecking blow's range could use some adjusting. Hate it when you're 10+ meters away from somebody using that skill and you still get hit (even when there's no lag).

Teargrants · December 2015

Nah brah, it's all cool, I got a new idea since ppl gon be all up in here hollain their complaints if'n it be nerfed.

Just make my Crystal Frags uninterruptable and let it proc itself too.

Forestd16b14_ESO · December 2015

Sorry but don't even bother

WB is OP/broken and needs nerf/fixed but like 77% to 90% of the players use it and want it to stay OP/broken cause they want that "I win" button. So trying to ask for a nerf/fix will just get you assaulted by that 90% telling you "L2P". Kinda hard to "L2P" as pro WB spammers are so fond of saying when the skill is broken to hit 20 meters away or cause infinite knock backs cause of the broken CC immunity.

The way I see how it can be fixed is to simply make it like NPCs WB and have a real cast time.

riverdragon72 · December 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

Wrecking blow's range could use some adjusting. Hate it when you're 10+ meters away from somebody using that skill and you still get hit (even when there's no lag).

Apparently it has a ~100ft range these days

Mojomonkeyman · December 2015

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

nerf it and you destroy stam DKs and stam Sorc.

Stam sorc here, you are wrong. Thx bb. DK even has the best physical ult, so if I don`t need it, they don`t need it either.

The so called "need" for WB is just lazyness and anyone who has to rely on it is just plain bad, sorry to say. 99% of the few stam sorcs or many dks you see are fengrush or xeloki copies, too lazy and poor to ever come up with own approaches.

WB is a cheap skill since it cant be interrupted. It was nice when it took skill to use it.

PainfulFAFA · December 2015

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

nerf it and you destroy stam DKs and stam Sorc.

Stam sorc here, you are wrong. Thx bb. DK even has the best physical ult, so if I don`t need it, they don`t need it either.

The so called "need" for WB is just lazyness and anyone who has to rely on it is just plain bad, sorry to say. 99% of the few stam sorcs or many dks you see are fengrush or xeloki copies, too lazy and poor to ever come up with own approaches.

WB is a cheap skill since it cant be interrupted. It was nice when it took skill to use it.

stam sorc here
i guarantee you any other stamina build you theorycraft for sorc is easily trumped with a 2H because of the burst dmg it offers. I've tried every combination for stam sorc out there and nothing can compare to the burst that 2H gives.
Thats what the meta is... burst dmg.

Your dot build wont do anything to me
Your stambow wont do anything to me
Your sorc wannabe Xeloki build wont do anything against me

And I'm getting tired of the same arguments from people about build copies. These days anybody can just make a build video of what everybody is using and all of a sudden they're the inventors of that build.

I suppose every stam sorc is a fengrush copy
every magicka sorc is a bolterity
every stam nb is a sypher
every magicka nb is a sunshine
every magicka templar is a blabafat
every stam templar is a essa
every stam dk is a xeloki
every magicka dk is a.... oh wait.. lets just wait for somebody to upload a build video and all of a sudden they're the unique snowflake inventor of it.

Joy_Division · December 2015

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

nerf it and you destroy stam DKs and stam Sorc.

Stam sorc here, you are wrong. Thx bb. DK even has the best physical ult, so if I don`t need it, they don`t need it either.

The so called "need" for WB is just lazyness and anyone who has to rely on it is just plain bad, sorry to say. 99% of the few stam sorcs or many dks you see are fengrush or xeloki copies, too lazy and poor to ever come up with own approaches.

WB is a cheap skill since it cant be interrupted. It was nice when it took skill to use it.

stam sorc here
i guarantee you any other stamina build you theorycraft for sorc is easily trumped with a 2H because of the burst dmg it offers. I've tried every combination for stam sorc out there and nothing can compare to the burst that 2H gives.
Thats what the meta is... burst dmg.

Your dot build wont do anything to me
Your stambow wont do anything to me
Your sorc wannabe Xeloki build wont do anything against me

And I'm getting tired of the same arguments from people about build copies. These days anybody can just make a build video of what everybody is using and all of a sudden they're the inventors of that build.

I suppose every stam sorc is a fengrush copy
every magicka sorc is a bolterity
every stam nb is a sypher
every magicka nb is a sunshine
every magicka templar is a blabafat
every stam templar is a essa
every stam dk is a xeloki
every magicka dk is a.... oh wait.. lets just wait for somebody to upload a build video and all of a sudden they're the unique snowflake inventor of it.

Gonna have to wait a while for the magicka DK video.

Can't say I am a fan of WB spammers, but what else are they going to do? Use a DoT? LoL. Carve? That non-existent stam sorc DPS skill?

frozywozy · December 2015

Wrecking blow is fine as it is. It is so easy to dodge roll it / cloak it / fear it. Surprise attack is way better. I agree to fix the problem relate to the wb animation clipping with the heavy attack though.

josh.lackey_ESO · December 2015

Okay, since there isn't a unanimous agreement here, I'll elucidate some.

Wrecking Blow is easy to avoid.

Actually, it isn't. There are a few reasons why.

It has a 7 meter range.
You maintain full movement speed while you are casting a Wrecking Blow. (This includes +40% move speed from Major Expedition.)
The animation and sound effect are very subtle -- it doesn't look very different from a heavy attack.
The animation DOES NOT OCCUR if you follow it up with a heavy attack. The WB animation cancels and the heavy attack animation starts. (Also meaning you can start winding up a heavy attack while the WB is still casting, so they can land at almost the same time!)
As long as you are 180 degrees in front of them when the cast time finishes, the WB will land. It's cast does not cancel if you move out its hit box.

So no, Wrecking Blow is not simple to avoid just by walking through someone. All they have to do is turn to face you while staying within 7 meters.

When an NPC is winding up an WB, they glow and sparkle to let you know. Most player abilities have clear visual notifications. It's hard to miss someone casting Crystal Frags or Biting Jabs. Wrecking Blow, on the other hand, is almost impossible to notice, especially when combined with the visual effects of Blur, Lightning Form, Dragon's Blood, Evasion, etc. According to the last ESO Live, visual cues are an important part of comabt. If you can't hide Bound Armor (which is such a minor buff), I don't think Wrecking Blows should be so easy to miss. Better visual cues would go a long way toward balancing this ability.

If you nerf Wrecking Blow, it will ruin certain classes.

If the viability of an entire class hinges around a single weapon skill (not a class skill), then I daresay the class is already broken.

Other subtle problems with Wrecking Blow.

The cast of Wrecking Blow cannot be interrupted.
Wrecking Blow has an incredibly cheap cost. Consider: it is the highest damage single-target weapon ability in the game. It gives you an Empower buff for 20% damage. AND it is a hard CC knockback/stun. This is just too much bang for the buck. No other skill in the game is this good.
Wrecking Blows does physical damage. Physical damage is the hardest kind of damage to mitigate. The armor focus champion passives provide much less percentage value than Spell Shield. Likewise, there are specific passives for every damage type except physical. You can also gain an additional flat percentage damage reduction of magic and elemental damage, but not physical. This might make sense for PvE content, but not for PvP content.
For PvP, Weapon Skills benefit more from armor passives than do Spells. Again, this might make sense for PvE content, where mobs have a high spell resist and do mostly spell damage. But in PvP, for example, I'd much rather have 12% more spell damage than spell penetration. Similarly, you can dodge spells with Evasion, and Immovable grants Major Ward, but Annulment doesn't absorb weapon attacks (?!). The deck is really stacked here, so there's no surprise that so many people run around spamming Wrecking Blow.

Wrecking Blow is problem in PvP. Other abilities, like Lotus Fan, have different effects against players than they do NPC's. If Wrecking Blow got the same treatment, I think we'd see a lot less Wrecking Blow spam. I am not sure what people would use instead. I would agree with anyone who said other weapons abilities need to be improved (including the poor destro staff.)

hammayolettuce · December 2015

I would much rather be hit by WB than surprise attack

*

TheDarkShadow · December 2015

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Wrecking Blow is problem in PvP. Other abilities, like Lotus Fan, have different effects against players than they do NPC's. If Wrecking Blow got the same treatment, I think we'd see a lot less Wrecking Blow spam.

I agree. My main problem with WB is that if you are hit by 1, it's a sure that you are gonna eat up 2, because you cannot stand up and get out of the way fast enough to avoid the next blow. AND, don't forget the empower part on that 2nd hit. Make WB only push back enemy like Templar sweep, and it will be alright.

PainfulFAFA · December 2015

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

Okay, since there isn't a unanimous agreement here, I'll elucidate some.

Wrecking Blow is easy to avoid.

Actually, it isn't. There are a few reasons why.
It has a 7 meter range.

You maintain full movement speed while you are casting a Wrecking Blow. (This includes +40% move speed from Major Expedition.)

The animation and sound effect are very subtle -- it doesn't look very different from a heavy attack.

The animation DOES NOT OCCUR if you follow it up with a heavy attack. The WB animation cancels and the heavy attack animation starts. (Also meaning you can start winding up a heavy attack while the WB is still casting, so they can land at almost the same time!)

As long as you are 180 degrees in front of them when the cast time finishes, the WB will land. It's cast does not cancel if you move out its hit box.

So no, Wrecking Blow is not simple to avoid just by walking through someone. All they have to do is turn to face you while staying within 7 meters.

When an NPC is winding up an WB, they glow and sparkle to let you know. Most player abilities have clear visual notifications. It's hard to miss someone casting Crystal Frags or Biting Jabs. Wrecking Blow, on the other hand, is almost impossible to notice, especially when combined with the visual effects of Blur, Lightning Form, Dragon's Blood, Evasion, etc. According to the last ESO Live, visual cues are an important part of comabt. If you can't hide Bound Armor (which is such a minor buff), I don't think Wrecking Blows should be so easy to miss. Better visual cues would go a long way toward balancing this ability.

If you nerf Wrecking Blow, it will ruin certain classes.

If the viability of an entire class hinges around a single weapon skill (not a class skill), then I daresay the class is already broken.

Other subtle problems with Wrecking Blow.
[*] The cast of Wrecking Blow cannot be interrupted.
[*] Wrecking Blow has an incredibly cheap cost. Consider: it is the highest damage single-target weapon ability in the game. It gives you an Empower buff for 20% damage. AND it is a hard CC knockback/stun. This is just too much bang for the buck. No other skill in the game is this good.
[*] Wrecking Blows does physical damage. Physical damage is the hardest kind of damage to mitigate. The armor focus champion passives provide much less percentage value than Spell Shield. Likewise, there are specific passives for every damage type except physical. You can also gain an additional flat percentage damage reduction of magic and elemental damage, but not physical. This might make sense for PvE content, but not for PvP content.
[*] For PvP, Weapon Skills benefit more from armor passives than do Spells. Again, this might make sense for PvE content, where mobs have a high spell resist and do mostly spell damage. But in PvP, for example, I'd much rather have 12% more spell damage than spell penetration. Similarly, you can dodge spells with Evasion, and Immovable grants Major Ward, but Annulment doesn't absorb weapon attacks (?!). The deck is really stacked here, so there's no surprise that so many people run around spamming Wrecking Blow.

Wrecking Blow is problem in PvP. Other abilities, like Lotus Fan, have different effects against players than they do NPC's. If Wrecking Blow got the same treatment, I think we'd see a lot less Wrecking Blow spam. I am not sure what people would use instead. I would agree with anyone who said other weapons abilities need to be improved (including the poor destro staff.)

If you're insisting on a nerf to wrecking blow, then i want a nerf to Surprise Attack, which is arguably stronger than wrecking blow.

Surprise Attack is not op
Actually it is, and one of the reasons NB is fotm.
1. Is instant cast
2. does physical damage
3. is cheaper than wrecking blow
4. maintain full movement speed
5. has a cc +status effect (off-ballance) if hit from stealth (easy for a nb)
6. is instant cast
7. Major Fracture
8. Grants Major Resolve/Ward (passive)
9. cant be interrupted
10. IS INSTANT CAST

In other words, you can pull off 2 SA before i even land my wrecking blow. You can even pull a ambush+SA+soul harvest before I land my wrecking blow and thats IF i even land it in the first place.
Nerf wrecking blow = Nerf SA.

Alucardo · December 2015

Wrecking blow is fine, but there is something extremely bugged with CC immunity. I beat a sorc yesterday in a duel. That's right, you heard me. But I only won because WB knocked him over twice in 2 seconds.
The odd thing is, it happens randomly. Sometimes the immunity works perfectly and other times it just won't.

Alucardo · December 2015

Besides, you nerf my wrecking blow I'ma just make a Nightblade so you complain about SA next.

Sharee · December 2015

[nevermind]

Mojomonkeyman · December 2015

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

nerf it and you destroy stam DKs and stam Sorc.

Stam sorc here, you are wrong. Thx bb. DK even has the best physical ult, so if I don`t need it, they don`t need it either.

The so called "need" for WB is just lazyness and anyone who has to rely on it is just plain bad, sorry to say. 99% of the few stam sorcs or many dks you see are fengrush or xeloki copies, too lazy and poor to ever come up with own approaches.

WB is a cheap skill since it cant be interrupted. It was nice when it took skill to use it.

stam sorc here
i guarantee you any other stamina build you theorycraft for sorc is easily trumped with a 2H because of the burst dmg it offers. I've tried every combination for stam sorc out there and nothing can compare to the burst that 2H gives.
Thats what the meta is... burst dmg.

Your dot build wont do anything to me
Your stambow wont do anything to me
Your sorc wannabe Xeloki build wont do anything against me

And I'm getting tired of the same arguments from people about build copies. These days anybody can just make a build video of what everybody is using and all of a sudden they're the inventors of that build.

I suppose every stam sorc is a fengrush copy
every magicka sorc is a bolterity
every stam nb is a sypher
every magicka nb is a sunshine
every magicka templar is a blabafat
every stam templar is a essa
every stam dk is a xeloki
every magicka dk is a.... oh wait.. lets just wait for somebody to upload a build video and all of a sudden they're the unique snowflake inventor of it.

What?

I don`t even know most of the names you listed. I mean what I said, almost any stam dk i meet is trying to do what alcast does, just worse usually.

The 1-2 stam sorcs i met, well I haven`t met a good one which wasn`t my faction... the bads all play generic 2h + dw (bound, boundless, elude, wb, exec, crit charge, streak, surge (or rally), spin2win).

If you need wb, good for you. Keep it up, monkey.

josh.lackey_ESO · December 2015

I agree with you, @PainfulFAFA. I think the high burst damage meta is a bad way to go. I don't want PvP reduced to whoever starts smashing their button first wins. I also don't want everyone to hit like a wet noodle. I'd like to see various types of builds performing well as a function of how skillfully they are played. Not have a one button easy mode spam.

But that speaks a little to the low cost of hard-hitting abilities. If you are doing a lot of burst, you should have to make a sacrifice to sustainability. But the trade off is currently heavily favoring burst damage. Maybe it's due to everything being a break-even: you can probably assume Resolve is going to be countered with Fracture, Ward with Breach, Vitality with Defile, and so on. There is no real advantage given to being defensive. Even health doesn't make a lot of sense: just increase your max stamina and weapon damage for bigger heals from Rally and Vigor (which basically everyone has now.) One of the few things that scaled with health was Bone/Sun Shield and Dragon's Blood, and those got nerfed so badly that they aren't even worth using.

Alucardo · December 2015

WB is great as a utility. I can't burst a sorcs bubble with low slash no matter how hard I try - they'll just keep applying healing and hardened ward. I need WB to get through it.
It also works great as an execute: WB + Take Flight, and causes that cool glitch that makes people float in the air screaming when they're dead.

FENGRUSH · December 2015

This is now a nerf sorc thread

Etaniel · December 2015

On paper, WB isn't outrageous, maybe the self empower is a bit dumb dumb but whatever. And on paper, its easy to counter by blocking, dodging, moving around etc. Except it's not, because it's animation doesn't match the stun timer nor the damage, it desyncs your health if the guy keeps his heavy attack button pressed and delays the stun.
Meaning to counter wrecking blow you either need to be super lucky or to be an expert on how it bugs out. Needs fixing

Alcast · December 2015

Reason why noone uses DoTs and all use the highest damage skills aviable to them:

Dots do NOT work
on Shields
on Blocking Targets

Dots are too easy to get rid of via:
Purge
Cloak

like srsly, those 2 skills are so *** OP I do not get why they havent been nerfed yet. Getting rid of ALL negative effects in one button LOL gj zos.

And thanks to the 50% dmg mitigation its either full Burst or gtfo and l2p ><

Alucardo · December 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Reason why noone uses DoTs and all use the highest damage skills aviable to them:

Dots do NOT work
on Shields
on Blocking Targets

Dots are too easy to get rid of via:
Purge
Cloak

like srsly, those 2 skills are so *** OP I do not get why they havent been nerfed yet. Getting rid of ALL negative effects in one button LOL gj zos.

And thanks to the 50% dmg mitigation its either full Burst or gtfo and l2p ><

I thought Dots worked on shields now? It's still stupid a class can go invisible and purge dots off them at the same time.
They reduced damage by 50%, then added a bunch of new gear to increase spell and weapon damage to insane levels xD
I really want to see the reintroduction of softcaps to hopefully promote more versatile builds.

Maulkin · December 2015

All DoTs work on shields and blocking targets except Bleeds from what I've seen. Why? I have no idea, but they don't work on undead either.

But I must say currently bleeds are super strong in PvP against those that can't purge easily. Especially if you have a Maelstrom Axe with Crit Rush/Stampede. Those ticks can get pretty monstrous.

MountainHound · December 2015

Lets nerf light attacks.

Anazasi · December 2015

Lets all just ask ourselves one simple question. WTF does Worbel actually do? Honestly has anyone seen anything from him aside of the occasional post. All these complaints and idea should be sent directly to him because I don't think he or anyone on his team are actually working on combat skills or balance. Actually I think his job might be the best job at ZOS no work all play punch the clock do the time and go home to play other games.