How can we balance damage shields?
Strider_Roshin
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Okay, so the strength of damage shields are still out of hand. For starters, hardened ward should be a comparable strength to igneous shield since they both have the same duration. However the other shield that needs to be addressed is healing ward. The strength of this shield is monstrous, and it makes light armored magicka users more difficult to kill than tanks. This shouldn't be the case at all. I think the survivability of light armor magicka users should be comparable or if anything a little worse than medium about wearers, and of course heavy armor wearers should have the best survivability in the game.
Now here are suggestions I don't agree with:
1) Have damage shields scale off health.
2) Homogenize them by making damage have a major and minor version.
Can anyone guess why? What do you think would happen if either of these two happened?
It won't be light armored builds you'll have to worry about anymore, it would be stamina builds.
I've already mentioned what I think they should do to hardened ward. When it comes to healing ward, I think the base shield strength should be increased by 25% while at the same time only have the shield increase by 100% rather than 300%, and have it heal for only have of the remaining shield rather than all of the remaining shield.
Do you like my suggestion or do you have a better one in mind?
Now here are suggestions I don't agree with:
1) Have damage shields scale off health.
2) Homogenize them by making damage have a major and minor version.
Can anyone guess why? What do you think would happen if either of these two happened?
It won't be light armored builds you'll have to worry about anymore, it would be stamina builds.
I've already mentioned what I think they should do to hardened ward. When it comes to healing ward, I think the base shield strength should be increased by 25% while at the same time only have the shield increase by 100% rather than 300%, and have it heal for only have of the remaining shield rather than all of the remaining shield.
Do you like my suggestion or do you have a better one in mind?
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Hardened Ward is ok and doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to be fixed is shield stacking.2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Hardened Ward is ok and doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to be fixed is shield stacking.
It costs less, it's 3x stronger, and lasts 3x longer than sun shield. That's not okay. Although I do agree, stacking shields should not be allowed. The stronger one should replace the weaker one, but they shouldn't stack.1 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Hardened Ward is ok and doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to be fixed is shield stacking.
It costs less, it's 3x stronger, and lasts 3x longer than sun shield. That's not okay. Although I do agree, stacking shields should not be allowed. The stronger one should replace the weaker one, but they shouldn't stack.
It's the only reliable class defence a sorc has?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...7 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No balancing needed.
I agree on healing ward, it should be up to 100% instead of 300%
But the rest is fine as it is.Edited by Dracane on December 8, 2015 2:15PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.4 -
remilafo✭✭✭✭Shielding needs to scale off something that is universal to all players and type..
Like scaling off the respective stat it uses, so hardened ward needs magicka it scales off spell dmg and Max magicka.
likewise bone shield should scale off weapon dmg + max stamina etc..
seems like a simply fix to get the other sheilds in line with hardened ward. Some balancing might need to be done naturally but the whole scaling off health thing is kinda dumb.
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Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Strider_Roshin wrote: »Corellon Thromorin wrote: »Hardened Ward is ok and doesn't need to be nerfed. What needs to be fixed is shield stacking.
It costs less, it's 3x stronger, and lasts 3x longer than sun shield. That's not okay. Although I do agree, stacking shields should not be allowed. The stronger one should replace the weaker one, but they shouldn't stack.
It's the only reliable class defence a sorc has?
All classes have the means of buffing their defenses. 3 classes have a damage shield they can use, however the strength differences are vastly different. I know that DKs and Templars have better self heals; however healing ward + dark conversion is enough to get you by.1 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭There have been hundreds of these threads by now. It really is a L2P issue. If your combo consists of Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow, Ambush Abmush Ambush, Jabs Jabs Jabs, Tornado Tornado Tornado, or Sneak Attack Sneak Attack Sneak Attack, you are bad and you should feel bad.
You have to burst down Sorcs. Spamming one ability will never, ever work, nor should it.
Edited by Xeven on December 8, 2015 2:23PM1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There have been hundreds of these threads by now. It really is a L2P issue. If your combo consists of Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow, Ambush Abmush Ambush, Jabs Jabs Jabs, Tornado Tornado Tornado, or Sneak Attack Sneak Attack Sneak Attack, you are bad and you should feel bad.
You have to burst down Sorcs. Spamming one ability will never, ever work.
Let's be honest, spamming Wrecking blow does indeed work
Since the last update, Magicka Sorcerers are the easiest class for me to kill. I just CC them one time and bye bye.
Because Sorcs are really squishy actually and if they can't recast their shield for a moment, they are basically dead.
Hardened Ward alone is very expensive in my opinion. I run out of Magicka very fast if I spam it. I need Harness Magicka to maintain it and this is available for everyone.
Though I think, Sorcerers should be the worst class at self heal and sadly healing ward is too strong. Sorcerer relies on it more than other classes. I actually wish, they would weaken this and strenghten Hardened Ward a bit. Because Sorcerer really don't have anything in their arsenal besides that.Edited by Dracane on December 8, 2015 2:26PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos3 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There have been hundreds of these threads by now. It really is a L2P issue. If your combo consists of Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow, Ambush Abmush Ambush, Jabs Jabs Jabs, Tornado Tornado Tornado, or Sneak Attack Sneak Attack Sneak Attack, you are bad and you should feel bad.
You have to burst down Sorcs. Spamming one ability will never, ever work, nor should it.
This isn't a nerf sorc forum, this is a discussion on the strength of damage shields. Yes, hardened ward is specific to sorcs but healing ward isn't.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »There have been hundreds of these threads by now. It really is a L2P issue. If your combo consists of Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow Wrecking Blow, Ambush Abmush Ambush, Jabs Jabs Jabs, Tornado Tornado Tornado, or Sneak Attack Sneak Attack Sneak Attack, you are bad and you should feel bad.
You have to burst down Sorcs. Spamming one ability will never, ever work, nor should it.
This isn't a nerf sorc forum, this is a discussion on the strength of damage shields. Yes, hardened ward is specific to sorcs but healing ward isn't.
if(thread mentions damage shields)
{
nerf sorc thread;
}
But in all honesty healing ward is its own beast of a problem.0 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No balancing needed.
I agree on healing ward, it should be up to 100% instead of 300%
But the rest is fine as it is.
You don't think stacking needs to be addressed. Or the imbalance in shield strength when you compare hardened ward to sun shield, or obsidian shield? I honestly don't mind sorcs having the strongest shield. I just don't agree with the degree that it's stronger. Now if conjured ward were the same strength as obsidian shield, and hardened ward was 33% stronger than that, I think that would be fine. On top of preventing shield stacking.0 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭1) Remove shield stacking.
2) Make Healing Ward a direct heal based off the missing health but reduce the value.
3) Buff/Change/Redesign Dark Exchange so sorcs have a decent class heal.
4) Skills that heal for x% (missing) health should not be reduced by the Battle Spirit debuff.PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.Because I can!0 -
Xeven✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let's be honest, spamming Wrecking blow does indeed work
It can work with the right build, or if you are blind sided by it.
To others struggling against Sorc:
- Wrecking blow into dragon leap into Executioner Weave spam.
- Ambush into Soul Harvest into Fear into Sneak Attack into Killers Blade Weave spam.
These are just two combinations that will penetrate even the hardest of hardened wards. This kills the Sorc. You're welcome.
Edited by Xeven on December 8, 2015 2:42PM0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »No balancing needed.
I agree on healing ward, it should be up to 100% instead of 300%
But the rest is fine as it is.
You don't think stacking needs to be addressed. Or the imbalance in shield strength when you compare hardened ward to sun shield, or obsidian shield? I honestly don't mind sorcs having the strongest shield. I just don't agree with the degree that it's stronger. Now if conjured ward were the same strength as obsidian shield, and hardened ward was 33% stronger than that, I think that would be fine. On top of preventing shield stacking.
Nope, it does not need to be adressed. I only think, that having 2 shields+ Healing Ward or healing ward in particular is too stupid.
2 shields are perfectly fine and needed.
And Templars and Dks have good self heals and survival tools, especially Dk with reflective scales. They don't need a strong class shield. And they have the 2 most important shields that are available to everyone, Harness and Healing Ward.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »No balancing needed.
I agree on healing ward, it should be up to 100% instead of 300%
But the rest is fine as it is.
You don't think stacking needs to be addressed. Or the imbalance in shield strength when you compare hardened ward to sun shield, or obsidian shield? I honestly don't mind sorcs having the strongest shield. I just don't agree with the degree that it's stronger. Now if conjured ward were the same strength as obsidian shield, and hardened ward was 33% stronger than that, I think that would be fine. On top of preventing shield stacking.
Sun Shield is clearly designed for high max health players who are in the middle of a large number of mobs, Obsidian Shield buffs the power of healing done by 30% and shields nearby allies. Both of which support classes that don't need to rely on their shields to stay alive. A sorc needs that buffer, and a shield that's slightly stronger than obsidian (which is twice as powerful than the tooltip shows for the caster) is not enough if they don't have anything to back it up. Also hardened ward has another morph that I think most no one really uses, an 8% buff to healing done.
Sure stacking needs to be addressed, but as of now if sorc's didn't have as strong of a shield as they do now they wouldn't have much in the way of survivability.2 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.
I have a DK, GDB is still powerful when combo'd with igneous shield. I go from 10% to full in around 3 seconds (I hit rally at the 85% mark). It doesn't beat the Templar's healing but DKs are known for their tankiness, not their healing.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.
Sure green dragon blood isn't the cure-all it was back when dk's were the kings of the game, but with battle roar and igneous shields 30% healing done buff any heal a dk takes to replace gdb will be significantly stronger than what other classes can do with it.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.
I have a DK, GDB is still powerful when combo'd with igneous shield. I go from 10% to full in around 3 seconds (I hit rally at the 85% mark). It doesn't beat the Templar's healing but DKs are known for their tankiness, not their healing.
You wouldn't have the time to cast igneous then gdb at 10%. You'd die so much faster.
I like the way people think the fact a dk needing to pre cast igneous before healing is 'ok' its really not, 2 skills to heal takes quite a bit of time in a pvp sense.
Dk's really need quite the changes to their skills, i'm really hoping for a buff in the next patch.
PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
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Add Harness Magicka and Healing Ward to your bar and you're much stronger than a Sorc could be with your tools.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.
Sure green dragon blood isn't the cure-all it was back when dk's were the kings of the game, but with battle roar and igneous shields 30% healing done buff any heal a dk takes to replace gdb will be significantly stronger than what other classes can do with it.
Do you really know how battle roar works now? With an ultimate of 250 it returns around 30% from your resources. So thats 15% from your health. If you want to do some damage you will have around 25k health and that is around 4k health for each ultimate that you activateBecause I can!0 -
Lirkin✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
I have a question. Is the health gain the same for DK, Templar and Sorcerer. If they don't put points into health would they end up with the same amount of health? If not The shields should not be the same.0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭You could make it an energy store that drains stored damage energy at a fixed rate.
If incoming damage > then energy released ....then energy builds.
If incoming damage < then energy released ...then energy falls.
If energy stored > limit ...BANG
(I jest...don't hate me)
Edited by Rune_Relic on December 8, 2015 3:05PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.
I have a DK, GDB is still powerful when combo'd with igneous shield. I go from 10% to full in around 3 seconds (I hit rally at the 85% mark). It doesn't beat the Templar's healing but DKs are known for their tankiness, not their healing.
Probably there is a tamplar somewhere watching at the wall and spamming BoL and you think that the GDB healed you.
Now lets give you an example. You have 30k max health, you lost 25k and you have only 5k. One execute and you are dead. You cast igneous and you cast your GDB. 25000*0.33 = 8250 base heal. 8250*1.3*1.10*1.10 = 13000. Now divide on 2 because of the battle spirit and you are healed for 6.5k
You lost 2 global cooldowns and you healed yourself with 6.5k health. At 5k you were with 16% from your life and after your heal you are at 38% from your health.
I even added in the calculations some additional healing buffs from passives.Because I can!0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Strider_Roshin wrote: »
I have a question. Is the health gain the same for DK, Templar and Sorcerer. If they don't put points into health would they end up with the same amount of health? If not The shields should not be the same.Strider_Roshin wrote: »DK's and templars have heals to back up their shields. I really wouldn't call Dark Exchange, Blood Magic, Clannfear/Matriarch or Surge heals comparable to those. Sorc's rely on their shields and comparing ward to the shields of classes that do have more reliable heals is not a good one in my opinion.
How can you say that DKs have heals? At least in PvP the 50% heal reduction is too much.
I have a DK, GDB is still powerful when combo'd with igneous shield. I go from 10% to full in around 3 seconds (I hit rally at the 85% mark). It doesn't beat the Templar's healing but DKs are known for their tankiness, not their healing.
Probably there is a tamplar somewhere watching at the wall and spamming BoL and you think that the GDB healed you.
Now lets give you an example. You have 30k max health, you lost 25k and you have only 5k. One execute and you are dead. You cast igneous and you cast your GDB. 25000*0.33 = 8250 base heal. 8250*1.3*1.10*1.10 = 13000. Now divide on 2 because of the battle spirit and you are healed for 6.5k
You lost 2 global cooldowns and you healed yourself with 6.5k health. At 5k you were with 16% from your life and after your heal you are at 38% from your health.
I even added in the calculations some additional healing buffs from passives.
6,5k is huge in the current state of pvp O.o I don't know, what you're complaining about. Spam Dragon blood 2 times in a row and bam.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1
