How can we balance damage shields?

Alucardo

Dracane wrote: »

Scales is exactly what I was talking about. It counters sooo many dangerous things.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. It's buggy as hell and rarely works the way it's supposed to. It's high costing (rightfully), so stam DKs can't run it a majority of the time and need to use it sparingly. If that's our main source of protection, we're screwed.

Dracane

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Scales is exactly what I was talking about. It counters sooo many dangerous things.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. It's buggy as hell and rarely works the way it's supposed to. It's high costing (rightfully), so stam DKs can't run it a majority of the time and need to use it sparingly. If that's our main source of protection, we're screwed.

No Dk I've came across so far, had any problems with keeping it up most of the time and it's offense and defense combined, shields aren't.

Reflective scales are really powerfull. Only thing that annoys me, is this 4 projectile limitation. That wasn't needed in my opinion.

Strider_Roshin

Dracane wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Scales is exactly what I was talking about. It counters sooo many dangerous things.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. It's buggy as hell and rarely works the way it's supposed to. It's high costing (rightfully), so stam DKs can't run it a majority of the time and need to use it sparingly. If that's our main source of protection, we're screwed.

No Dk I've came across so far, had any problems with keeping it up most of the time and it's offense and defense combined, shields aren't.

Reflective scales are really powerfull. Only thing that annoys me, is this 4 projectile limitation. That wasn't needed in my opinion.

Lol can you imagine how OP scales would be without the 4 projectile limitation? Ever heard of a move called guard? Lol

Dracane

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Scales is exactly what I was talking about. It counters sooo many dangerous things.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. It's buggy as hell and rarely works the way it's supposed to. It's high costing (rightfully), so stam DKs can't run it a majority of the time and need to use it sparingly. If that's our main source of protection, we're screwed.

No Dk I've came across so far, had any problems with keeping it up most of the time and it's offense and defense combined, shields aren't.

Reflective scales are really powerfull. Only thing that annoys me, is this 4 projectile limitation. That wasn't needed in my opinion.

Lol can you imagine how OP scales would be without the 4 projectile limitation? Ever heard of a move called guard? Lol

Scales is the 5th ability of draconic power, which means it belongs to the 3 super abilities a class has to offer. It should be impactfull and reliable especially.

It only lasts 4 seconds. These 4 seconds should be reliable at least.

CP5

Dracane wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Scales is exactly what I was talking about. It counters sooo many dangerous things.

I can't tell if you're trolling or not. It's buggy as hell and rarely works the way it's supposed to. It's high costing (rightfully), so stam DKs can't run it a majority of the time and need to use it sparingly. If that's our main source of protection, we're screwed.

No Dk I've came across so far, had any problems with keeping it up most of the time and it's offense and defense combined, shields aren't.

Reflective scales are really powerfull. Only thing that annoys me, is this 4 projectile limitation. That wasn't needed in my opinion.

Lol can you imagine how OP scales would be without the 4 projectile limitation? Ever heard of a move called guard? Lol

Scales is the 5th ability of draconic power, which means it belongs to the 3 super abilities a class has to offer. It should be impactfull and reliable especially.

It only lasts 4 seconds. These 4 seconds should be reliable at least.

And the 4s after that? Or the 4s after that? How about the 4s after that? My thing against scales is that if a dk had halfway decent regen and cost reduction they would be able to keep scales up for so long while also negating 100% of projectile damage and dealing that much damage if not more to their targets. Its one of the few nerfs in this game I agree with.

Ezareth

I'm a 501+ CP Sorc with 100 CPs into Bastion. My PvE build gives me 49,060 Magicka to cast my Hardened Ward which is more magicka than you're going to realistically find on any Sorc anywhere who isn't Emperor. No sorc is running around with this much magicka. That said, in this build I get absolutely wrecked by skilled players using a stamina build because I have no Stamina regen or stamina efficiency. I can spam hardened ward which will absorb a ton of damage but 2 CC breaks later I'm out of stamina and then I'm dead.

The reason I mention this is to show an absolute worst case "hardened ward" scenario that you as a player will never really experience when fighting a Sorc. Now when I switch out to my PvP build I have to drop Bound Aegis, and usually Inner Light as well as a Magicka Set bonus for a Stamina regen set bonus that I need to increase my survivability to an acceptable level. This drops my Hardened Ward from 16K to 13K and my fighting magicka pool to ~41K.

Here is the thing. I can't survive at all relying on hardened ward. Dodge roll saves me far more than hardened ward does simply because If I try to block a wrecking blow I'll lose almost as much stamina as a dodge roll plus lose the GCD that allows me to attack with an ability because I'll have to recast my hardened ward. If I dodge roll since it's on a separate If I don't recast my hardened ward I run the risk of being gibbed by whatever CC eventually does hit me. What I'm getting to is against stamina builds Sorcs are squishy as hell. We can't outheal damage, physical damage done to our health is done with no real armor or protections and if we run out of stamina to CC break 95% of the time we die. I've already demonstrated I can't dump up my hardened ward any more so Hardened wards larger than mine don't exist. If I bump up my dodge rolling capability or my stamina regeneration any more it is at the cost of my damage.

What I'm getting to I guess is Hardened Ward is balanced as it is, it is the only counter/protection from physical attacks that a sorc has and it is balanced in the fact that it consumes the same GCD that we have in which to attack. If you want to kill a sorc you have to keep pressure on them constantly, keep them recasting their shields over and over and not attacking and you'll have the fight in the bag.

Dracane

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm a 501+ CP Sorc with 100 CPs into Bastion. My PvE build gives me 49,060 Magicka to cast my Hardened Ward which is more magicka than you're going to realistically find on any Sorc anywhere who isn't Emperor. No sorc is running around with this much magicka. That said, in this build I get absolutely wrecked by skilled players using a stamina build because I have no Stamina regen or stamina efficiency. I can spam hardened ward which will absorb a ton of damage but 2 CC breaks later I'm out of stamina and then I'm dead.

The reason I mention this is to show an absolute worst case "hardened ward" scenario that you as a player will never really experience when fighting a Sorc. Now when I switch out to my PvP build I have to drop Bound Aegis, and usually Inner Light as well as a Magicka Set bonus for a Stamina regen set bonus that I need to increase my survivability to an acceptable level. This drops my Hardened Ward from 16K to 13K and my fighting magicka pool to ~41K.

Here is the thing. I can't survive at all relying on hardened ward. Dodge roll saves me far more than hardened ward does simply because If I try to block a wrecking blow I'll lose almost as much stamina as a dodge roll plus lose the GCD that allows me to attack with an ability because I'll have to recast my hardened ward. If I dodge roll since it's on a separate If I don't recast my hardened ward I run the risk of being gibbed by whatever CC eventually does hit me. What I'm getting to is against stamina builds Sorcs are squishy as hell. We can't outheal damage, physical damage done to our health is done with no real armor or protections and if we run out of stamina to CC break 95% of the time we die. I've already demonstrated I can't dump up my hardened ward any more so Hardened wards larger than mine don't exist. If I bump up my dodge rolling capability or my stamina regeneration any more it is at the cost of my damage.

What I'm getting to I guess is Hardened Ward is balanced as it is, it is the only counter/protection from physical attacks that a sorc has and it is balanced in the fact that it consumes the same GCD that we have in which to attack. If you want to kill a sorc you have to keep pressure on them constantly, keep them recasting their shields over and over and not attacking and you'll have the fight in the bag.

62k Magicka here.....

But yea you are absolutely right about the rest, couldn't agree more. Sorcerer needs this shields and it's far from being too strong.

Kutsuu

The biggest balance problem with Hardened Ward is having to recast the darn thing all the time. It should really be changed to a toggle mechanic that reapplies itself when needed. Sorcs shouldn't have to give up a GCD to recast it.

For real though, damage shields should be left as is and just be changed to absorb a portion of damage, like 70% or 50% (depending on what works out best). This way you can't just spam shields forever to sponge all incoming damage no matter what, and they still give a huge damage reduction. Some other games have handled shields this way and it worked pretty darn well.

Ezareth

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm a 501+ CP Sorc with 100 CPs into Bastion. My PvE build gives me 49,060 Magicka to cast my Hardened Ward which is more magicka than you're going to realistically find on any Sorc anywhere who isn't Emperor. No sorc is running around with this much magicka. That said, in this build I get absolutely wrecked by skilled players using a stamina build because I have no Stamina regen or stamina efficiency. I can spam hardened ward which will absorb a ton of damage but 2 CC breaks later I'm out of stamina and then I'm dead.

The reason I mention this is to show an absolute worst case "hardened ward" scenario that you as a player will never really experience when fighting a Sorc. Now when I switch out to my PvP build I have to drop Bound Aegis, and usually Inner Light as well as a Magicka Set bonus for a Stamina regen set bonus that I need to increase my survivability to an acceptable level. This drops my Hardened Ward from 16K to 13K and my fighting magicka pool to ~41K.

Here is the thing. I can't survive at all relying on hardened ward. Dodge roll saves me far more than hardened ward does simply because If I try to block a wrecking blow I'll lose almost as much stamina as a dodge roll plus lose the GCD that allows me to attack with an ability because I'll have to recast my hardened ward. If I dodge roll since it's on a separate If I don't recast my hardened ward I run the risk of being gibbed by whatever CC eventually does hit me. What I'm getting to is against stamina builds Sorcs are squishy as hell. We can't outheal damage, physical damage done to our health is done with no real armor or protections and if we run out of stamina to CC break 95% of the time we die. I've already demonstrated I can't dump up my hardened ward any more so Hardened wards larger than mine don't exist. If I bump up my dodge rolling capability or my stamina regeneration any more it is at the cost of my damage.

What I'm getting to I guess is Hardened Ward is balanced as it is, it is the only counter/protection from physical attacks that a sorc has and it is balanced in the fact that it consumes the same GCD that we have in which to attack. If you want to kill a sorc you have to keep pressure on them constantly, keep them recasting their shields over and over and not attacking and you'll have the fight in the bag.

62k Magicka here.....

But yea you are absolutely right about the rest, couldn't agree more. Sorcerer needs this shields and it's far from being too strong.

I could hit far above 50K as well, and there is no chance you're running a 62K Magicka build in vMSA. That's why I qualified my statement with a "Realistically find" clause. I haven't seen a PvP sorc that wasn't a complete joke running Bound Aegis alone, yet alone a togglemancer with Mage Stone running Necropotence.

I was only trying to point out that at the top of the skill food chain it takes every ounce of skill I possess to stay alive. Nerfing hardened ward would not only make this even more difficult but it would make the guys who don't have 500 + CPs with BiS gear on every slot free AP for skilled stamina players.

Dracane

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm a 501+ CP Sorc with 100 CPs into Bastion. My PvE build gives me 49,060 Magicka to cast my Hardened Ward which is more magicka than you're going to realistically find on any Sorc anywhere who isn't Emperor. No sorc is running around with this much magicka. That said, in this build I get absolutely wrecked by skilled players using a stamina build because I have no Stamina regen or stamina efficiency. I can spam hardened ward which will absorb a ton of damage but 2 CC breaks later I'm out of stamina and then I'm dead.

The reason I mention this is to show an absolute worst case "hardened ward" scenario that you as a player will never really experience when fighting a Sorc. Now when I switch out to my PvP build I have to drop Bound Aegis, and usually Inner Light as well as a Magicka Set bonus for a Stamina regen set bonus that I need to increase my survivability to an acceptable level. This drops my Hardened Ward from 16K to 13K and my fighting magicka pool to ~41K.

Here is the thing. I can't survive at all relying on hardened ward. Dodge roll saves me far more than hardened ward does simply because If I try to block a wrecking blow I'll lose almost as much stamina as a dodge roll plus lose the GCD that allows me to attack with an ability because I'll have to recast my hardened ward. If I dodge roll since it's on a separate If I don't recast my hardened ward I run the risk of being gibbed by whatever CC eventually does hit me. What I'm getting to is against stamina builds Sorcs are squishy as hell. We can't outheal damage, physical damage done to our health is done with no real armor or protections and if we run out of stamina to CC break 95% of the time we die. I've already demonstrated I can't dump up my hardened ward any more so Hardened wards larger than mine don't exist. If I bump up my dodge rolling capability or my stamina regeneration any more it is at the cost of my damage.

What I'm getting to I guess is Hardened Ward is balanced as it is, it is the only counter/protection from physical attacks that a sorc has and it is balanced in the fact that it consumes the same GCD that we have in which to attack. If you want to kill a sorc you have to keep pressure on them constantly, keep them recasting their shields over and over and not attacking and you'll have the fight in the bag.

62k Magicka here.....

But yea you are absolutely right about the rest, couldn't agree more. Sorcerer needs this shields and it's far from being too strong.

I could hit far above 50K as well, and there is no chance you're running a 62K Magicka build in vMSA. That's why I qualified my statement with a "Realistically find" clause. I haven't seen a PvP sorc that wasn't a complete joke running Bound Aegis alone, yet alone a togglemancer with Mage Stone running Necropotence.

I was only trying to point out that at the top of the skill food chain it takes every ounce of skill I possess to stay alive. Nerfing hardened ward would not only make this even more difficult but it would make the guys who don't have 500 + CPs with BiS gear on every slot free AP for skilled stamina players.

Ah excuse me. Yea my Maelstrom build looks a bit different yet I wonder, how much spell damage you have while you have 49k Magicka ?

Derra

If one were to think healing ward (not class specific) + dark conversion can come close to the defense capabilities any other class offers they´re just a bit full of the poo poo.

Ezareth

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'm a 501+ CP Sorc with 100 CPs into Bastion. My PvE build gives me 49,060 Magicka to cast my Hardened Ward which is more magicka than you're going to realistically find on any Sorc anywhere who isn't Emperor. No sorc is running around with this much magicka. That said, in this build I get absolutely wrecked by skilled players using a stamina build because I have no Stamina regen or stamina efficiency. I can spam hardened ward which will absorb a ton of damage but 2 CC breaks later I'm out of stamina and then I'm dead.

The reason I mention this is to show an absolute worst case "hardened ward" scenario that you as a player will never really experience when fighting a Sorc. Now when I switch out to my PvP build I have to drop Bound Aegis, and usually Inner Light as well as a Magicka Set bonus for a Stamina regen set bonus that I need to increase my survivability to an acceptable level. This drops my Hardened Ward from 16K to 13K and my fighting magicka pool to ~41K.

Here is the thing. I can't survive at all relying on hardened ward. Dodge roll saves me far more than hardened ward does simply because If I try to block a wrecking blow I'll lose almost as much stamina as a dodge roll plus lose the GCD that allows me to attack with an ability because I'll have to recast my hardened ward. If I dodge roll since it's on a separate If I don't recast my hardened ward I run the risk of being gibbed by whatever CC eventually does hit me. What I'm getting to is against stamina builds Sorcs are squishy as hell. We can't outheal damage, physical damage done to our health is done with no real armor or protections and if we run out of stamina to CC break 95% of the time we die. I've already demonstrated I can't dump up my hardened ward any more so Hardened wards larger than mine don't exist. If I bump up my dodge rolling capability or my stamina regeneration any more it is at the cost of my damage.

What I'm getting to I guess is Hardened Ward is balanced as it is, it is the only counter/protection from physical attacks that a sorc has and it is balanced in the fact that it consumes the same GCD that we have in which to attack. If you want to kill a sorc you have to keep pressure on them constantly, keep them recasting their shields over and over and not attacking and you'll have the fight in the bag.

62k Magicka here.....

But yea you are absolutely right about the rest, couldn't agree more. Sorcerer needs this shields and it's far from being too strong.

I could hit far above 50K as well, and there is no chance you're running a 62K Magicka build in vMSA. That's why I qualified my statement with a "Realistically find" clause. I haven't seen a PvP sorc that wasn't a complete joke running Bound Aegis alone, yet alone a togglemancer with Mage Stone running Necropotence.

I was only trying to point out that at the top of the skill food chain it takes every ounce of skill I possess to stay alive. Nerfing hardened ward would not only make this even more difficult but it would make the guys who don't have 500 + CPs with BiS gear on every slot free AP for skilled stamina players.

Ah excuse me. Yea my Maelstrom build looks a bit different yet I wonder, how much spell damage you have while you have 49k Magicka ?

With major Sorcery I think around 3300. In vMSA I'm still torn between using the Maelstrom Inferno staff or not. Losing 4% Penetration and my flame damage enchant to gain 60 spell damage (78 buffed) is a wash if it is worth it at all.

Derra wrote: »

If one were to think healing ward (not class specific) + dark conversion can come close to the defense capabilities any other class offers they´re just a bit full of the poo poo.

Yup. I'm using 3 purely Defensive abilities on my bar (Ball of Lightning, Defensive Rune, Defensive Posture) in addition to my Hardened Ward just to stand a chance at surviving more than one player beating on me for more than a couple seconds.

Dracane

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

Trayyacakes

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

leepalmer95

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

Yet anyone can use annulment ^^

Dracane

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

Annulment only works against magic damage, not against stamina/physical damage.
That's why I can't listen to all these 'Oh, Sorcs have 20k shields' comments. Because they don't actually, only 20k against magic (and magic gets treated like dirt anyway) but not against physical damage.

So no, annulment can be ignored by you, as it does not mitigate your physical damage Healing Ward does though

Xeven

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

Trayyacakes

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too.

I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

That is a fair point, The only reason I brought up Sorcs is because they have the best class shield which I believe they need.

Dracane wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

Annulment only works against magic damage, not against stamina/physical damage.
That's why I can't listen to all these 'Oh, Sorcs have 20k shields' comments. Because they don't actually, only 20k against magic (and magic gets treated like dirt anyway) but not against physical damage.

So no, annulment can be ignored by you, as it does not mitigate your physical damage Healing Ward does though

true, but the only time I have an issue with healing ward while fighting any average player (I say average because I don't consider myself anymore than an average player especially after my latest break from the game) while using a stam build is when they outplay me and I am not able to keep up pressure on them which is how it should be. When I'm using a magicka build and its hidden under a class shield and harness it becomes an issue, so I am of the opinion harness is the issue not healing ward, but meh.

Dracane

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

Ezareth

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

Plenty of Sorcs are able to survive without using Harness Magicka. I for one thing Harness Magicka is broken as with the scaling that exists today you actually get magicka returned to you for using it and can be stacked with Hardened ward to return magicka on *physical* attacks.

I don't think these two shields should be stackable. I think casting one should overwrite the other. I do not think that should be the case with healing ward however as healing ward itself carries many sacrifices (Resto Staff + high cost) and it only lasts for 4 seconds.

Xeven

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

While it might enable your specific build to "sacrifice" more cost reduction or regen in favor of other things, I do not believe this to justify it. How do you sustain vs stamina?

Stacking shields hurts magicka builds overall. I do not need Annulment to stay alive or to sustain, and it only makes other magicka sorcs, templars, DKs, and nightblades more resistant to our DPS. It's a fair and reasonable trade, and it's honestly a bit over the top given the 50% battle spirit and hardy cp star.

Dracane

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

Plenty of Sorcs are able to survive without using Harness Magicka. I for one thing Harness Magicka is broken as with the scaling that exists today you actually get magicka returned to you for using it and can be stacked with Hardened ward to return magicka on *physical* attacks.

I don't think these two shields should be stackable. I think casting one should overwrite the other. I do not think that should be the case with healing ward however as healing ward itself carries many sacrifices (Resto Staff + high cost) and it only lasts for 4 seconds.

I couldn't sustain without it no way.

Xeven

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

Plenty of Sorcs are able to survive without using Harness Magicka. I for one thing Harness Magicka is broken as with the scaling that exists today you actually get magicka returned to you for using it and can be stacked with Hardened ward to return magicka on *physical* attacks.

I don't think these two shields should be stackable. I think casting one should overwrite the other. I do not think that should be the case with healing ward however as healing ward itself carries many sacrifices (Resto Staff + high cost) and it only lasts for 4 seconds.

I couldn't sustain without it no way.

That's a playstyle/build thing. The ability to stack Annulment with other shields is the main reason why we get so much shield hate.

Dracane

Xeven wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

Plenty of Sorcs are able to survive without using Harness Magicka. I for one thing Harness Magicka is broken as with the scaling that exists today you actually get magicka returned to you for using it and can be stacked with Hardened ward to return magicka on *physical* attacks.

I don't think these two shields should be stackable. I think casting one should overwrite the other. I do not think that should be the case with healing ward however as healing ward itself carries many sacrifices (Resto Staff + high cost) and it only lasts for 4 seconds.

I couldn't sustain without it no way.

That's a playstyle/build thing. The ability to stack Annulment with other shields is the main reason why we get so much shield hate.

Isn't healing ward the main reason O.o ?

Xeven

I don't really think Healing Ward should be stackable either. If you think it's fine, please send a tell to a Mageblade named Wizio on Haderus. He would be happy to show you how powerful a Healing/Annulment stack can be, and the absurd DPS output of Swallow Soul.

He rarely uses cloak in a duel anymore. He doesn't need it.

Dracane

In my opinion, Harness Magicka should be stackable, but healing ward should not.
But that's only my opinion.

They already said, they will not remove shield stacking and I think this is good.

Dracane

Xeven wrote: »

I don't really think Healing Ward should be stackable either. If you think it's fine, please send a tell to a Mageblade named Wizio on Haderus. He would be happy to show you how powerful a Healing/Annulment stack can be.

He rarely uses cloak in a duel. He doesn't need it.

Oh I'm more than aware how powerfull this is too good.

Xeven

I didnt mean you specifically but yeah. Wizio is an absolute beast and a prime example of how powerful shield stacking can be on classes other than Sorc.

Trayyacakes

Dracane wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

Annulment only works against magic damage, not against stamina/physical damage.
That's why I can't listen to all these 'Oh, Sorcs have 20k shields' comments. Because they don't actually, only 20k against magic (and magic gets treated like dirt anyway) but not against physical damage.

So no, annulment can be ignored by you, as it does not mitigate your physical damage Healing Ward does though

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Trayyacakes wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Alright. So at the end of the day we can come to the insight, that damage shields are basically balanced, not including maybe healing ward. But besides that, we can also agree, that Sorcerer needs his class shield and that you can not compare it to igneous shield or sun shield.

We all agree on this ? Yeeees Nice love

disagree healing ward is mostly fine in my opinion.
Annulment is the only shield I take issue with. Stam builds generally hit harder than magicka builds, yet magicka builds have to chew through hardened ward and annulment on a sorc... its doable for sure, just dumb. I believe sorcs need hardened ward. Annulment (mainly harnessed magicka because of the resource return) is just stupid.

I think you will find that Sorcs generally do not like Annulment either. We have to chew through other Sorcs shields too. I don't think you'll find a reasonable Sorc on this forum who is favor of Annulment stacking with other shields.

I do actually. For myself, harness magicka (annulment) is extremely essential. I could not maintain Hardened ward. It's just too expensive and I have to spam it too often in order to stay alive. I need the Magicka return from Harness Magicka to maintain it a bit longer.

Plenty of Sorcs are able to survive without using Harness Magicka. I for one thing Harness Magicka is broken as with the scaling that exists today you actually get magicka returned to you for using it and can be stacked with Hardened ward to return magicka on *physical* attacks.

I don't think these two shields should be stackable. I think casting one should overwrite the other. I do not think that should be the case with healing ward however as healing ward itself carries many sacrifices (Resto Staff + high cost) and it only lasts for 4 seconds.

I couldn't sustain without it no way.

That's a playstyle/build thing. The ability to stack Annulment with other shields is the main reason why we get so much shield hate.

Isn't healing ward the main reason O.o ?

it may be a part of it, but not from players that know game mechanics and know how to fight sorcs. Healing ward is garbage when you aren't low health. A player that knows how to fight a sorc will be sure to combine cc and burst at that moment: fear meteor or wrecking blow take flight for some examples. Also when you are at low health you are in full defensive mode, If I have you on the defensive then I don't have to worry about your burst, You can outplay me with streak and positioning to reset the fight, but you won't instantly wreck me when you are focusing on survival. The only thing I would think about changing about healing ward is that it should always be the top layer shield. Harness magicka on top of all of that... A magicka build has to do quite a lot to burst through hardened, harness, and healing ward before you get the heal and are back to the offensive. If healing ward is over nerfed, then you can just trade it for combat prayer, and stamina builds will have an easier time with sorcs, but magicka builds will have close to the same issues...

Xeven wrote: »

I don't really think Healing Ward should be stackable either. If you think it's fine, please send a tell to a Mageblade named Wizio on Haderus. He would be happy to show you how powerful a Healing/Annulment stack can be, and the absurd DPS output of Swallow Soul.

You are correct about harness and healing ward being a pain to deal with by itself. IMO annulment shouldn't even be in the game, but I'm by no means an expert. I probably think I know more than I actually do lol.

RinaldoGandolphi

The only thing with Shield that needs to be addressed is:

1. There are CC such as Destro Reach that will not work with a sheild up, this needs to change...imagine the QQ if Hardned Ward stopped Crystal Frags from knocking down and stunning who it hit...that would be nonsense....well its currently nonsense that any damage shield stops Fire Reach from Knocking you back, Frost Reach from rooting you, and Shock Reach from stunning you....this needs to be fixed.

2. The Templar's Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs skill is not getting its bonus damage against shielded targets...instead Jabs is just hitting for tooltip minus 50% which makes Sorc's invincible to Templar Spears which is already weak and only decent because of that damage bonus...it needs to be fixed...that Puncturing/Biting Jabs needs to apply that bonus damage to the shield its hitting...Templars already have enough downsides working against them as it is....

outside of that, i have no other issues with sheilds, and once these things are fixed, i think you will find far less people complaining about them.