Please, Nerf Crystal fragments!!!!! (UPDATE)

robkrush · December 2015

Cously wrote: »

You don't have flappy wings? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't.

The ability does a lot of damage and takes a lot of time to cast. Check.

Don't know of this was directed at me or not but ill answer. I dont have "flappy wings". Don't need them. In my group im a front line dps build. Being as i get in close most sors either try and run or drop mines and try to lure me into them. Meanwhile to busy stacking shields to even hit their insta cast frag. As a group my team burns them down fast. Solo it can be touch and go depending on whether i have a self heal equipped or not (usually rely on a healer).

ADarklore · December 2015

I keep hearing about how Force Pulse does so much more damage... yet, when you compare tool tips in the skills tree, it does less damage and costs more than Mage's Wrath and doesn't offer the 20% finisher that MW does and you also lose 2% Spell Power.

So I'm trying to figure out why I would use an ability that costs more, does less damage, and loses the 2% Expert Mage passive.

Right now I'm using MW to proc Crystal Frag and it seems to do quite well at that, along with giving the chance to proc disintegration. So can someone give me a legitimate reason why I should use Force Pulse over Mage's Wrath when the tool tip stats indicate it would be worse.

Cously · December 2015

robkrush wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

You don't have flappy wings? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't.

The ability does a lot of damage and takes a lot of time to cast. Check.

Don't know of this was directed at me or not but ill answer. I dont have "flappy wings". Don't need them. In my group im a front line dps build. Being as i get in close most sors either try and run or drop mines and try to lure me into them. Meanwhile to busy stacking shields to even hit their insta cast frag. As a group my team burns them down fast. Solo it can be touch and go depending on whether i have a self heal equipped or not (usually rely on a healer).

Apologies, it was directed at the OP. I don't think they should nerf that particular skill because it hits hard, yes, but also take a long time to cast, so it kind of balance itself. Also, as others pointed out, there are so many counters to that skill.

Hamrb · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

I keep hearing about how Force Pulse does so much more damage... yet, when you compare tool tips in the skills tree, it does less damage and costs more than Mage's Wrath and doesn't offer the 20% finisher that MW does and you also lose 2% Spell Power.

So I'm trying to figure out why I would use an ability that costs more, does less damage, and loses the 2% Expert Mage passive.

Right now I'm using MW to proc Crystal Frag and it seems to do quite well at that, along with giving the chance to proc disintegration. So can someone give me a legitimate reason why I should use Force Pulse over Mage's Wrath when the tool tip stats indicate it would be worse.

If you place most of your points into elemental expert, and get up to 66 percent crit, that's when force pulse really takes a big step up in damage. Now if you have sustain issues, you might want to consider different rotations. But for a sorc, that is the most consistent damage I can hit. Throwing up certain DOTs and buffs will up your numbers, but a v16 in competent v16 gear should be able to pull end game dps with just weapon attacks and force pulse

robkrush · December 2015

Cously wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Cously wrote: »

You don't have flappy wings? Oh, what am I saying, of course you don't.

The ability does a lot of damage and takes a lot of time to cast. Check.

Don't know of this was directed at me or not but ill answer. I dont have "flappy wings". Don't need them. In my group im a front line dps build. Being as i get in close most sors either try and run or drop mines and try to lure me into them. Meanwhile to busy stacking shields to even hit their insta cast frag. As a group my team burns them down fast. Solo it can be touch and go depending on whether i have a self heal equipped or not (usually rely on a healer).

Apologies, it was directed at the OP. I don't think they should nerf that particular skill because it hits hard, yes, but also take a long time to cast, so it kind of balance itself. Also, as others pointed out, there are so many counters to that skill.

Agreed. It's the mag sorc equivlant to wrecking blow and focus aim. Has a " long" cast time and hits pretty good. I don't see an issue with it.

Flaminir · December 2015

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

crowfl56 wrote: »

Look people, the players that are good in PVP are good.

Stop asking for a nerf, those good players in pvp would wreck most people even if they fought you with only a weapon equipped, and nothing more.

They are that good

Well, I just want sorc to be nerf to the ground. They have never felt humiliation like DK,Templar and NB(before IC)

You clearly never played a sorc before 1.6!

When you get regularly killed by a certain skill/class there are two options:

1. Come to the forums... search for a thread on how to counter it... or start a new thread and constructively ask for help "I am XX class/build & I'm having trouble getting killed by YY class/build, can anybody make any suggestions?"

2. Come to the forums and whine for a nerf to a class/skill that you don't understand because you couldn't be bothered to learn to play and just wanted the game twisted to your personal whim.

One of these options gives credibility and helps you get around your problem, one gives you zero credibility and you're still stuck... guess which way around!

ADarklore · December 2015

Hamrb wrote: »

If you place most of your points into elemental expert, and get up to 66 percent crit, that's when force pulse really takes a big step up in damage. Now if you have sustain issues, you might want to consider different rotations. But for a sorc, that is the most consistent damage I can hit. Throwing up certain DOTs and buffs will up your numbers, but a v16 in competent v16 gear should be able to pull end game dps with just weapon attacks and force pulse

That's at VR16, but for me at VR2 with roughly 100 CP, I've been putting all my Mage CP into Elfborn to increase my Crit Damage. At what point should I start putting points into Elemental Expert?

I also don't get how, by increasing Elemental Expert, you're not also increasing the damage done by Mage's Wrath.

Flaminir · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Hamrb wrote: »

If you place most of your points into elemental expert, and get up to 66 percent crit, that's when force pulse really takes a big step up in damage. Now if you have sustain issues, you might want to consider different rotations. But for a sorc, that is the most consistent damage I can hit. Throwing up certain DOTs and buffs will up your numbers, but a v16 in competent v16 gear should be able to pull end game dps with just weapon attacks and force pulse

That's at VR16, but for me at VR2 with roughly 100 CP, I've been putting all my Mage CP into Elfborn to increase my Crit Damage. At what point should I start putting points into Elemental Expert?

I also don't get how, by increasing Elemental Expert, you're not also increasing the damage done by Mage's Wrath.

You should start with elemental expert rather than elfborn.

Virtually all your damage as a magicka sorc is elemental.... force shock/Mages wrath/Liquid Lightning/Overload/Meteor etc

Elfborn is only increasing the damage when you crit... Elemental expert will increase all of this damage all of the time... and obviously the more the base damage is the more your crit damage for this will be.

Once you start getting quite high in elemental expert then start adding into Elfborn.

Troneon · December 2015

Just nerf everything on sorcs and nb's like they do on templars and dk's and maybe we might have some balance. :P

ADarklore · December 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

Elfborn is only increasing the damage when you crit... Elemental expert will increase all of this damage all of the time... and obviously the more the base damage is the more your crit damage for this will be.

Once you start getting quite high in elemental expert then start adding into Elfborn.

I swear, this is the exact opposite of other advice I've read. Because my crit is already high, almost 70%, most of my attacks crit... thus, wouldn't you want HIGHER damage from those crits than lower damage on non-crit?

Tryxus · December 2015

3 things:

1. L
2. 2
3. P

Toodles
Tryxus

Hamrb · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Hamrb wrote: »

If you place most of your points into elemental expert, and get up to 66 percent crit, that's when force pulse really takes a big step up in damage. Now if you have sustain issues, you might want to consider different rotations. But for a sorc, that is the most consistent damage I can hit. Throwing up certain DOTs and buffs will up your numbers, but a v16 in competent v16 gear should be able to pull end game dps with just weapon attacks and force pulse

That's at VR16, but for me at VR2 with roughly 100 CP, I've been putting all my Mage CP into Elfborn to increase my Crit Damage. At what point should I start putting points into Elemental Expert?

I also don't get how, by increasing Elemental Expert, you're not also increasing the damage done by Mage's Wrath.

mages wraths= elemental damage
id put cp into elemental expert over everyhting

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2015

Swannkyy wrote: »

Dodge it, you can see it coming from a mile away.

Not that I agree with the OP here. But you cant see it coming in a laggy Campaign. You just end up hit with it out of nowhere.

UltimaJoe777 · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Elfborn is only increasing the damage when you crit... Elemental expert will increase all of this damage all of the time... and obviously the more the base damage is the more your crit damage for this will be.

Once you start getting quite high in elemental expert then start adding into Elfborn.

I swear, this is the exact opposite of other advice I've read. Because my crit is already high, almost 70%, most of my attacks crit... thus, wouldn't you want HIGHER damage from those crits than lower damage on non-crit?

It may be a good idea to split evenly between Elfborn and Elemental Expert then. You get more out of Champion Passives early in as opposed to later on when a single point is equal to only about .1 or .2% so if you put 20 into both for example you would overall get more out of it than dumping 40 into 1 according to your situation at least.

Tankqull · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

I keep hearing about how Force Pulse does so much more damage... yet, when you compare tool tips in the skills tree, it does less damage and costs more than Mage's Wrath and doesn't offer the 20% finisher that MW does and you also lose 2% Spell Power.

So I'm trying to figure out why I would use an ability that costs more, does less damage, and loses the 2% Expert Mage passive.

Right now I'm using MW to proc Crystal Frag and it seems to do quite well at that, along with giving the chance to proc disintegration. So can someone give me a legitimate reason why I should use Force Pulse over Mage's Wrath when the tool tip stats indicate it would be worse.

1. FP does the liusted dmg per element so 3x as much as listed in the tooltip
2. the hihg dmg value listet in MW is only applied to your target when it is below 20% life
=> in my case its with crushing shock(dont have FP currently) 1890x3 =5670dmg vs 2150 with MW (and 9626 if the target is below 20% - wich is btw the lowest executioner dmg of all executioners and the lowest threshhold where it starts to function...)

Yolokin_Swagonborn · December 2015

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

crowfl56 wrote: »

Look people, the players that are good in PVP are good.

Stop asking for a nerf, those good players in pvp would wreck most people even if they fought you with only a weapon equipped, and nothing more.

They are that good

Well, I just want sorc to be nerf to the ground. They have never felt humiliation like DK,Templar and NB(before IC)

NB was never nerfed. Not in any huge game changing way.

Quick. Name one class defining NB ablility that was nerfed into oblivion.

I can give you two from every other class.

ADarklore · December 2015

Hamrb wrote: »

mages wraths= elemental damage
id put cp into elemental expert over everyhting

I think you're missing the point... crits hit much harder than regular abilities... if I put CP into Elemental Damage, sure I'm getting better damage on every hit, BUT, your crits are doing less damage. If you're critting on almost every hit, wouldn't you want your highest damage hits to hit even harder? Instead of having those few non-crit hits hit a little bit harder? Sure Elemental Damage will also increase your crit damage simply because it's Elemental, but that doesn't help my Crystal Frag, which is not Elemental but DOES Crit and benefits from Crit Damage increase.

So here is how I look at it... being that my Spell Crit is almost 70%, if I increase my Crit Damage via Elfborn, I am not only benefiting my Mage's Wrath but I am also benefiting my Crystal Frag. BUT, conversely, if I only put CPs into Elemental Expert, then I am losing Crit Damage from Crystal Frag. To me, Elfborn is a 'win-win' while Elemental Expert is a 'win-lose'. If all my damage came from elemental damage, it would be different.

ADarklore · December 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

1. FP does the liusted dmg per element so 3x as much as listed in the tooltip
2. the hihg dmg value listet in MW is only applied to your target when it is below 20% life
=> in my case its with crushing shock(dont have FP currently) 1890x3 =5670dmg vs 2150 with MW (and 9626 if the target is below 20% - wich is btw the lowest executioner dmg of all executioners and the lowest threshhold where it starts to function...)

Thanks for the info, I did not know this... and sounds almost like a bug. I mean, it isn't like your staff is a Inferno, Frost, Shock combination staff... so not sure how they justify giving 3x elemental damage from a single element staff.

But knowing this I may have to rethink things. In the past I always used Force Pulse but with my new character, I started using Mage's Wrath instead.

Flaminir · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Elfborn is only increasing the damage when you crit... Elemental expert will increase all of this damage all of the time... and obviously the more the base damage is the more your crit damage for this will be.

Once you start getting quite high in elemental expert then start adding into Elfborn.

I swear, this is the exact opposite of other advice I've read. Because my crit is already high, almost 70%, most of my attacks crit... thus, wouldn't you want HIGHER damage from those crits than lower damage on non-crit?

It's all a very fluid and complex calculation... without somebody going into the complexities of your specific class, race, crit rate, crit damage rate, max magicka, set procs, skill procs, passives, etc most advice you get will be an educated guess.

My advice was based on an educated guess based from your statement about being low vet with 100 CP.

70% is indeed exceptionally high for a magicka sorc. At endgame with light armor, Mage Light, Julianos, full V16 legendary divines gear with the thief stone mine is sat at 65%.

(Purely out of interest how have you got it to 70%?)

Yes... at 70% crit elfborn will be a very strong choice. It will increase the crit damage for 70% of your attacks..... but remember it's only the crit part it's increasing.

My point stands.... given that as a magicka sorc almost all of your DPS comes from elemental damage then using elemental expert will increase your BASE damage.... and as your crit damage is 50+% of base damage, increasing your base damage with elemental expert will also increase your crit damage being done with these elemental skills.

So you are basically increasing all your damage when you crit... all 150+% of it.. rather than just the 50% part if using Elfborn.

There are a lot of builds out there (Especially for other classes) where there is a bigger split of different damage types that may benefit from putting more points into Elfborn earlier in the diminishing return arc rather than focusing on either Elemental or Thaumaturge... but as PvE Sorcs use so much elemental it's a far easier guesstimate....

If you have zero points in elemental expert and all in elfborn you will certainly increase your DPS by moving some of these across due to the diminishing returns

Dracane · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

Elfborn is only increasing the damage when you crit... Elemental expert will increase all of this damage all of the time... and obviously the more the base damage is the more your crit damage for this will be.

Once you start getting quite high in elemental expert then start adding into Elfborn.

I swear, this is the exact opposite of other advice I've read. Because my crit is already high, almost 70%, most of my attacks crit... thus, wouldn't you want HIGHER damage from those crits than lower damage on non-crit?

You got something wrong here. What you mean is, that people suggest using the shadow(crit damage) rather than the thief (crit chance) once your crit chance is pretty high.

But he is right, first max out elemental expert before focusing on elfborn.

Molag_Crow · December 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

This ability as been spammed like hell for almost a year and it crits almost 10- 16k in cyrodiil. Please nerf this ability.

Thank you.

Crystal Fragments can't be "spammed"... it needs a proc. Otherwise, you're forced to hard-cast it, which is easily interruptible. On top of all that, the stamina builds which dominate PvP dodge Frags all the time.

If you want to complain about something, complain about Wrecking Blow, which CAN be spammed and CAN'T be interrupted.

This!

ADarklore · December 2015

Flaminir wrote: »

70% is indeed exceptionally high for a magicka sorc. At endgame with light armor, Mage Light, Julianos, full V16 legendary divines gear with the thief stone mine is sat at 65%.

(Purely out of interest how have you got it to 70%?)

Yes... at 70% crit elfborn will be a very strong choice. It will increase the crit damage for 70% of your attacks..... but remember it's only the crit part it's increasing.

Actually, my Spell Crit is exactly 69.2%. Are you running Precise staff trait? I'm running full Light Superior Divines Julianos set, Thief mundus, Epic Precise staff, Inner Magelight.

Flaminir · December 2015

@ADarklore

To back up my advice from above I've done a little digging... not sure if you've heard of Asayre... but they are a math genius who has done all the relevant calculations for Sorcs (And kind of for other classes to in the process). There's a fantastic 'Sorcerer Arithmagic' thread on Tamriel Foundary which goes through everything...

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/pts-2-1-2-sorcerer-arithmagic/

To cut to the chase.... as I said in my reply above, exact calculations are a very specific thing to your setup, but for a typical standard magicka sorc build the maths show that for the current CP cap "...the ideal CP distribution appears to be 100 in Elemental Expert, 66 in Elfborn and 1 in Spell Erosion."

Tryxus · December 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

crowfl56 wrote: »

Look people, the players that are good in PVP are good.

Stop asking for a nerf, those good players in pvp would wreck most people even if they fought you with only a weapon equipped, and nothing more.

They are that good

Well, I just want sorc to be nerf to the ground. They have never felt humiliation like DK,Templar and NB(before IC)

NB was never nerfed. Not in any huge game changing way.

Quick. Name one class defining NB ablility that was nerfed into oblivion.

I can give you two from every other class.

NB wasn't nerfed, it was on the same position that Templar is now

Flaminir · December 2015

ADarklore wrote: »

Flaminir wrote: »

70% is indeed exceptionally high for a magicka sorc. At endgame with light armor, Mage Light, Julianos, full V16 legendary divines gear with the thief stone mine is sat at 65%.

(Purely out of interest how have you got it to 70%?)

Yes... at 70% crit elfborn will be a very strong choice. It will increase the crit damage for 70% of your attacks..... but remember it's only the crit part it's increasing.

Actually, my Spell Crit is exactly 69.2%. Are you running Precise staff trait? I'm running full Light Superior Divines Julianos set, Thief mundus, Epic Precise staff, Inner Magelight.

Ahh of course. Nope.. Nirnhoned personally... gives a little more dps on my setup.

ADarklore · December 2015

Dracane wrote: »

You got something wrong here. What you mean is, that people suggest using the shadow(crit damage) rather than the thief (crit chance) once your crit chance is pretty high.

I do believe, after recent updates to Mundus, this has been shown to be incorrect. I do believe someone on here has shown that going with Thief beyond 50% holds a slight advantage over Shadow.

SahrotRein · December 2015

While we're at it...

Caligamy_ESO · December 2015

I cant mash wrecking blow fast enough because of all these crystals in my face!!!1

Waseem · December 2015

did u ever consider improving your character's spell resistance? probably no. then ditch the build you found on the internet and upgrade your spell resistance.
pro tip: spell resistance is a resistance to spells, which decrease the damage caused by spells thus makes you more resistant to spells

zornyan · December 2015

Wollust wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

*** off with your nerf posts. You people ruin the game more day by day

Then ZOS needs to remove block casting, remove animation cancellation, fix the broken skills, re-work the entire damage shield system cause there clearly broken and over powered, and get dueling out of it's "infant" stage and into it's beta stage and put arenas/battlegrounds on the top of there to do list.

I see you crying over block casting and animation canceling all day. I don't get how much of a problem you need to have to qq every single day about the same thing. I won't discuss this with you because I'm tired of repeating myself.
Fix broken skills? There isn't many broken skill. Toppling charge, talons with eclipse, chains, fire scales, but no idea what else might be broken. But I really do not think it s a lot of skills. . What is broken though is the CC system, which leads to problems with skills like wrecking blow, fear, reverb bash etc. That's the thing that needs fixing. Not those skills need to be changed. The CC system just needs to work reliable. That's all.

And even though I really like dueling, the game should definitely not be balanced around 1v1.

Troll post? Not many broken skills. ..

Puncturing sweeps/biting jabs
Toppling charge
Radiant destruction
Purifying light
Burning light proc chance bugged
Empowering sweep bugged

Wrecking blow cc immunity and it now empowers itself

Fear repeatedly stunning and not being able to block whilst feared or cc break

Mist form bugged
Clouding swarm bugged

Need i go on?