Elder Stamina Online - Is this game really so biased against Magicka?!?

tangy.citrus · November 2015

'Elder Trolls Online'

This thread is funny af

Vezuls · November 2015

Yeah. Do VMA on a magic build and then a stam build and then say that.

Catblade · November 2015

Matem wrote: »

Lol this thread

right?

Samphaa · November 2015

I just want that 12% weapon damage passive in medium armour to be have an equivalent in light armour

Kas · November 2015

the things you mention are not really relevant. if anything, the existence of elemental defender and hardy without a physical pendent (light/med/heavy armor corresponds to spellshield) is what matters.

moreover, this makes it hard to balance and, partly, you can already see the effect with stamina damage builds becoming more and more prevalent in pvp, whereas magicka dominates pve

Brrrofski · November 2015

Worst thing about stamina build is pretty much being forced to have dawnbreaker on your bar.

Also, keep in mind stam uses use they're damaging pool for breaking free, dodging, running etc.

Necrelios · November 2015

This one caught my eye earlier, could it be something like this you're looking for?

hamburgerler76 · November 2015

I would not have posted those stats you just have to look at them to know why your having trouble lol

hamburgerler76 · November 2015

@HeroOfNone hopefully this will give your day a good laugh like it did me

hrothbern · November 2015

Necrelios wrote: »

This one caught my eye earlier, could it be something like this you're looking for?

Looks fantastic !!!
let's do the math

NPC hit roughly every 2 seconds. 5 seconds protection means protection from 2 attacks.
So 1 attack at 100% damage followed by 2 attacks at 90% damage, when it procced. When not still 100%.

So on average: (15%*(100% + 90% + 90%)/3) + (85%*(100% + 100% + 100%)/3) = 15%*93.3% + 85% = 13.995% + 85% = 99%

So 1% Damage reduction against that 1 attacker.

The tooltip states nothing about a cooldown and the tooltip states nothing about the yes/no possibility to stack..... (oh.. oh.. oh ZOS)

But supposing there is no cooldown AND supposing it stacks at 1 opponent: then a NPC has 3% less Weapon Damage. (there are always 3 debuffs rolling active in a steady fight)

3% ... wow !!!

gen_reynard2050 · November 2015

head-crazy-rabbit-emoticon.gif?1292793771

stamina stamina stamina stamina stamina stamina stamina...
roll stamina
sneak stamina
block stamina
break stamina
sprint stamina
heavy attack stamina
phy.damage stamina

yah///tat not fair..all stamina... come zos, gv some for magicka too...

Turelus · November 2015

I like how we're not at the complete opposite to release now which was Elder Magicka Online.

hrothbern · November 2015

gen_reynard2050 wrote: »

stamina stamina stamina stamina stamina stamina stamina...
roll stamina
sneak stamina
block stamina
break stamina
sprint stamina
heavy attack stamina
phy.damage stamina

yah///tat not fair..all stamina... come zos, gv some for magicka too...

hmmm

I think it is an advantage to have one pool for attacking abilities AND defensive abilities.
What you choose to use depends then only on the situation.

As Magicka, to block, break and dodge you need to decide with your build how much you can spare for that pool.... and not during a fight. That is an disadvantage.

True, given the freedom of choice during the fight, burning all your Stamina in the frenzy of a burst can happen. But that is player skill or the lack of it. Nothing structural.

Barlthump · November 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

This one caught my eye earlier, could it be something like this you're looking for?

Looks fantastic !!!
let's do the math

NPC hit roughly every 2 seconds. 5 seconds protection means protection from 2 attacks.
So 1 attack at 100% damage followed by 2 attacks at 90% damage, when it procced. When not still 100%.

So on average: (15%*(100% + 90% + 90%)/3) + (85%*(100% + 100% + 100%)/3) = 15%*93.3% + 85% = 13.995% + 85% = 99%

So 1% Damage reduction against that 1 attacker.

The tooltip states nothing about a cooldown and the tooltip states nothing about the yes/no possibility to stack..... (oh.. oh.. oh ZOS)

But supposing there is no cooldown AND supposing it stacks at 1 opponent: then a NPC has 3% less Weapon Damage. (there are always 3 debuffs rolling active in a steady fight)

3% ... wow !!!

Yeah I agree with you totally. Why should I care about using utility skill as a magicka class in light armor? I must go QQ dps with 0 survivability. I mean I have the most op shield stacking capability but I want more. Why should I pump stats to health or use utility sets? I can do vMSA like it's a hot knife through butter but I still want more. OH I KNOW LET'S MAKE A THREAD: The elder stamina online. That should really bring my pointless opinion across

Necrelios · November 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

Necrelios wrote: »

This one caught my eye earlier, could it be something like this you're looking for?

Looks fantastic !!!
let's do the math

NPC hit roughly every 2 seconds. 5 seconds protection means protection from 2 attacks.
So 1 attack at 100% damage followed by 2 attacks at 90% damage, when it procced. When not still 100%.

So on average: (15%*(100% + 90% + 90%)/3) + (85%*(100% + 100% + 100%)/3) = 15%*93.3% + 85% = 13.995% + 85% = 99%

So 1% Damage reduction against that 1 attacker.

The tooltip states nothing about a cooldown and the tooltip states nothing about the yes/no possibility to stack..... (oh.. oh.. oh ZOS)

But supposing there is no cooldown AND supposing it stacks at 1 opponent: then a NPC has 3% less Weapon Damage. (there are always 3 debuffs rolling active in a steady fight)

3% ... wow !!!

I was kinda thinking just having the 2 or 4 set item bonus would be beneficial though against a melee attacker? I doubt I would go for all 5 with this set anyways since you could get a better bonus with a second partial set. I could see 4 items stacking well with reinforced if we're talking about protection against physical attacks.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · November 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

OK, so we Know nirnhoned on armor increases spell resist by 18% here's proof!

Anyone else laugh at the guy in chat that is really upset about his v15 ring? Haha

Faugaun · November 2015

So I notice a lot of people talk about the shields....etc...I think perhaps pvp and pve are two different perspectives. I have done little pve recently but in pvp shields are way nerfed. So perhaps that's why it seems that stamina is biased over magicka?

Not sure, just thinking.

blabafat · November 2015

CP system is the main problem in the stamina vs. magicka issue.

Faugaun · November 2015

@blabafat how so?

blabafat · November 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

@blabafat how so?

Magicka damage can be mitigated by % reductions in the CP. Stamina cannot, at least not as well.

Let's take a look at the CP passives in the red tree that provide some sort of damage mitigation.

- Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus (Increase armor resistance while wearing 5 pieces of the same type of armor; stacks up to 13%)
- Resistant (Reduces Critical Damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Hardy (Reduces Poison, Disease, Magic damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Elemental Defender (Reduces Elemental damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Thick Skinned (Reduces DoT damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Spell Shield (Increases Spell resistance; stacks up to 25%)

Okay. Now let's look at these.

Technically, there is a way to mitigate physical damage. It's just really bad. The armor focus passives increase your armor resistance. However, it only stacks up to 13% and requires you to wear at least 5 pieces of the same armor. Compare that to the Spell Shield passive. It stacks up to 25% and does not require you to wear a certain type of armor. Both of these though, spell resistance and physical resistance, do not apply to shields. So if someone is wearing shields, these passives are thrown out the window.

Moving on to the passives that provide a FLAT Damage reduction. First of all, these do apply to shields(with the exception of resistant because shields are not crittable). They all stack up to 25%. Hardy mitigates poison, disease, and magic damage. Poison and Disease damage are physical usually(Poison injection). Usually the main disease damage you are getting hit by is from enchants(Not 100% if this is physical or magicka damage). However, magic damage is relating to any tooltip that says magic damage. Majority of magic sorc, nb, and templar abilities. A 25% damage reduction to magic damage is a direct reduction to magic damage. Whereas an increase to armor resistance is not a direct damage reduction. It increases your armor, and then it provides an increase to physical resistance. That requires two calculations; flat damage reduction requires one.

Thick skinned reduces all DoT damage by up to 25%. This CAN be physical damage or magic damage.

Elemental Defender reduces all Elemental Damage. This CAN also be physical or magic. Mostly, it's magicka elemental damage.

Resistant reduces all critical damage by 25%. This can be either physical or magic.

Even aside from the fact that you can reduce all types of magical based damage by % reductions in the CP system, another issue is that these stack.

For example, there are technically 4 ways to reduce a Magic Templar's Puncturing Sweep / Nightblade's Cripple / Magic DK's Dots.

For the Templar & Nightblade - Hardy, Resistant, Spell Shield, Thick Skinned (Jabs is a DoT)

For the DK - Elemental Defender, Resistant, Spell Shield, Thick Skinned

Granted, spell resistance and resistant don't apply to shields. Even then, the damage is being nerfed in two ways.

Faugaun · November 2015

blabafat wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

@blabafat how so?

- Light/Medium/Heavy Armor Focus (Increase armor resistance while wearing 5 pieces of the same type of armor; stacks up to 13%)
- Resistant (Reduces Critical Damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Hardy (Reduces Poison, Disease, Magic damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Elemental Defender (Reduces Elemental damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Thick Skinned (Reduces DoT damage; stacks up to 25%)
- Spell Shield (Increases Spell resistance; stacks up to 25%)

-Resistant (applies to both)
-Hardy (applies to both, but does specify magic, which as you state is alot, I think based on memory more disease and poison are predominantly physical, so the leaning here is mixed)
-Elemental defender (applies to elemental, magicka wins this one)
-thick skinned (both, plain and simple it is both)
-spell shield (magicka for sure)

OK I would like to note that physical resist is resist against all Stam based attacks. Magicka defense has to be piecemealed together. For the most part magicka defense is independent of what you choose to do for damage (magicka vs stamina) the exception being light armor (25%) medium armor (50% or was it 75% I cannot remember) and heavy armor 100%. These scale both magicka and stamina defenses. A medium armor user is thus 2x (or 3x depending on which percent it is that I cannot recall) more durable before any passives are applied.

This brings me to the final point, light/medium/heavy armor focus.

Light gets 13% buff on X (25% of heavy) medium gets 13% buff on y (y is 50/75% of heavy, this is a 26% or 39% buff if put in light armor relative terms) and heavy armor gets 13% buff on z (z is 100% armor or 52% relative buff).

So suppose light armor has 1000 armor value, medium has 2000/3000, and heavy has 4000. This means that with full light/medium/heavy focus the buffs are as follows:

Light: 1000+130=1130
Medium: 2000/3000+260/390=2260/3390
Heavy: 4000+520=4520

So the guy who decides to do magicka damage is automatically at a disadvantage when it comes to the incoming damage and yet they get now buff on outgoing damage on weapon glyphs...like stamina users get....it's very biased.

Lenikus · November 2015

....Do people need to be reminded about 1.5, when tanks used dresses ?
Or how Nirnhoned (the op against magicka resistance) now only increases spell resistance around 200 for a gold v16 item, since it's the ITEM's value, not your total stat ?
Or even, how Light Armor gives around 1/4 of the Defense ratings a Heavy armor makes ? ( Medium, for comparison, gives 3/4 of heavy armor's defense rating)
Or my favorite, Stamina is used for freaking everything, while Magicka is solely for skill casting ?

Reevster · November 2015

All i see are NBs in the game now, stamina cant be that much of an issue, these boards were full of whining NBs for the first 6 months,then they nerf DKs, they jack up NBs how times have changed and yet they still whine, why bother with other classes, ESO NBs online.

Artjuh90 · November 2015

Reevster wrote: »

All i see are NBs in the game now, stamina cant be that much of an issue, these boards were full of whining NBs for the first 6 months,then they nerf DKs, they jack up NBs how times have changed and yet they still whine, why bother with other classes, ESO NBs online.

IT's NB and sorc's they are both as common

BlackEar · November 2015

These days Magicka stumps Stamina

Leon119 · November 2015

Faugaun wrote: »

OK, so we Know nirnhoned on armor increases spell resist by 18% here's proof!

but where is the equivalent to stamina based reduction?

I know it's been talked about tons.....but here's another!!!

I threw this buff on a test weapon and went out hunting. Here's my stats before:

and here's my stats after:

notice the only change is that my weapon damage goes up, in a way that will increase damage from ALL of my stamina based skills....but where's the equivalent glyph for magicka users?

Seriously, it's very frustrating as a magicka dps/off-healer in pvp/trials/other competitive areas when you need to compete against stamina and they get so much more love than magicka.....

/qqrant over

p.s. I need some ideas for a good weapon glyph on my magicka nb.....

U do realise that the top dps are all magicka based and the difference is quite huge right ? =_=
Seriously the only place stam is arguably better is pvp due to the lack of a physical resist CP passive.

If magicka dps gets lower damage than a stamina then the magicka dps is doing something wrong

Kutsuu · November 2015

What's hilarious here is that this complaint is in a PVE context, where Magicka rules the day! At least complain about PVP if you want to complain about stamina damage.

LBxFinalDeath · November 2015

Does anything other than spells take magicka is the real question.

I could have swore everything takes stamina so if you wanna be technical its bias'd against Stam.

Ashtaris · November 2015

Is this guy for real? Sheesh, Magicka based builds have some of the highest DPS in the game. Go cry a river to all of us Stamina based NB's and tanks :P

eliisra · November 2015

BlackEar wrote: »

These days Magicka stumps Stamina

In PvE yes, by miles. Playing stamina in PvE not only requires more skill, it's also subpar single target dps and way harder to maintain resources.

In PvP not at all, unless you play sorc. You dont need dps in PvP, you need burst and mobility, which stamina builds provide. Stamina builds can kill anything and anyone, there's no rock-paper-scissors for them. While magicka builds cant. Mainly due to everyone's Elemental Defender, Hardy, Thick Skinned stack and Harness Magicka on every other mag build, reducing or even nullifying the dmg.

Go try kill a magicka sorc as a mag build, it's just not going to happen unless (s)he sucks. But a lot of this is really a DK + Templar class skill and passive issue, needs some tweaking to fit the new no-soft cap PvP. Magicka sorc and magblade are pretty bursty and mobile, even with current CP constellations.