How do you feel about the VR replacement ZOS is working on?

Enodoc · November 2015

Good Idea

bryanhaas wrote: »

So someone in Cyrodil with one champion point and one with 501 will both show as level 50 so now real way to size up your opponents. Great.

The visibility of CPs is not the issue -- I like the supposition that CPs will be invisible -- the issue is the CPs themselves. CPs cause imbalance in Cyrodiil that goes counter to the purpose of battle-levelling in Cyrodiil. (Battle-levelling is supposed to level the playing field by making your VR/level irrelevant; that's why player VRs/levels don't appear in death recap.) Either battle-levelling needs to account for CP imbalance, or CPs should be disabled in Cyrodiil. If either of those happened, it wouldn't matter how many CPs the opponent has.

kupacmac · November 2015

Good Idea

For those of you asking for progression to stop at level 50 and not have VR or CP progression, Guild Wars 2 tried this approach. I hit cap level on 3 characters, then had nothing to do but PvP. Got bored of that in a month and left. Is that really more appealing?

Elijah_Crow · November 2015

Good Idea

kupacmac wrote: »

For those of you asking for progression to stop at level 50 and not have VR or CP progression, Guild Wars 2 tried this approach. I hit cap level on 3 characters, then had nothing to do but PvP. Got bored of that in a month and left. Is that really more appealing?

I agree with this. I've used the GW2 example myself. When the game was in development I thought "How great! No gear grind!". The reality was that without being able to advance my character I found no motivation to continue to play.

I've now accepted the fact that I want to continue to progress my characters strength and both champion points and new gear allow me to do so. I do appreciate progressing at a slow pace and occasional gear updates and I don't want to be crafting gear every month, however I would like to be able to find a new piece at least every 6 months or so.

Annalyse · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

kupacmac wrote: »

For those of you asking for progression to stop at level 50 and not have VR or CP progression, Guild Wars 2 tried this approach. I hit cap level on 3 characters, then had nothing to do but PvP. Got bored of that in a month and left. Is that really more appealing?

I don't like that idea either. Sure, there would still be quests left to do but part of these games will always be about reaching that next goal, and generally that goal is levelling. I enjoy the questing but I also find it very satisfying each time I reach a new level and I can't imagine I would play as much without that.

If characters all stayed at level 50, then people like myself (who have no interest in PvP) would probably be more likely to play alts to level 50 and then quit. Right now I have goals to get them all to max level so I'll be here playing a lot longer if it stays the way it is now.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

Enodoc wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit worse individually. With this system, you need a total of 16,048,092 XP above Level 50 to equip the gear that is currently VR16. Under the current system, you need 13,600,000 XP over 50. But if you have 8 Veteran characters, you would need 108,800,000 XP to equip that gear on every character, whereas under the new system, you only need 16,048,092 XP.

I would much prefer gear to not have a CP requirement at all.

While I undertand how this would be a slight penalty for a new player, I assume this does not account for enlightenment, which would reduce that total by 300k per day. That alone offsets the meager 2.5 million experience difference in just over 1 week. Can you clarify how enlightenment impacts your statement?

Elijah_Crow · November 2015

Good Idea

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit worse individually. With this system, you need a total of 16,048,092 XP above Level 50 to equip the gear that is currently VR16. Under the current system, you need 13,600,000 XP over 50. But if you have 8 Veteran characters, you would need 108,800,000 XP to equip that gear on every character, whereas under the new system, you only need 16,048,092 XP.

I would much prefer gear to not have a CP requirement at all.

While I undertand how this would be a slight penalty for a new player, I assume this does not account for enlightenment, which would reduce that total by 300k per day. That alone offsets the meager 2.5 million eperience difference in just over 2 weeks. Can you clarify how enlightenment impacts your statement?

Wouldn't it reduce it by 2/3 roughly?

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit worse individually. With this system, you need a total of 16,048,092 XP above Level 50 to equip the gear that is currently VR16. Under the current system, you need 13,600,000 XP over 50. But if you have 8 Veteran characters, you would need 108,800,000 XP to equip that gear on every character, whereas under the new system, you only need 16,048,092 XP.

I would much prefer gear to not have a CP requirement at all.

While I undertand how this would be a slight penalty for a new player, I assume this does not account for enlightenment, which would reduce that total by 300k per day. That alone offsets the meager 2.5 million eperience difference in just over 2 weeks. Can you clarify how enlightenment impacts your statement?

Wouldn't it reduce it by 2/3 roughly?

As far as I know enlightenment earns you 400k CP exp for every 100k earned each day. It's essentially a 4x multiplier for the first 100k CP exp you earn each day.

EDIT: It's also a cumulative effect that stacks up to 12 days. So even if you don't play for a while you would still earn enlightenment up to a max of 12 days worth.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

Artjuh90 · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

yes i do think it will disapear cause now enlightment gives higher cp players a higher exp gain then the lower cp players. it was introduced as a keep up mechanism

Sharkano · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

What's always shocking to me about this game is how they spend the most time on the least important issues, and how in doing so they radically change things over and over and over again. To me it shows grossly incompetent management. Why are they going to revamp the entire game yet again? What is the desperate need to change veteran levels into cp points? What was the point of creating cp to then cap it? If they spent 1/10 of the time they give to these sideshow projects to REAL issues such as Cyrodil lag (I dream of the beta and early release days of massive pvp battles with no lag at all), armor and skill bugs, crashes, and all the other nonsense that goes on here the game would be far better off.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

Artjuh90 wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

yes i do think it will disapear cause now enlightment gives higher cp players a higher exp gain then the lower cp players. it was introduced as a keep up mechanism

No, it doesn't. Enlightenment gives every player 400k CP exp for their first 100k exp earned that day. It is the same for every player and has no bias towards either high or low CP players. Also, enlightenment was never a catchup mechanic, it was simply an incentive to log in at least once every 12 days.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

So when you posted that 400,000 * 900 = 360,000,000 you were demonstrating what exactly? Please help me to understand how your math is even remotely accurate according to the current system. 400k is no longer the average CP exp (unless the definition of the term has changed since I went to school). If it was then for each CP above 798 you would need to increase the cost appropriate to how much every point below 798 was reduced, which is not what happens.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

yes i do think it will disapear cause now enlightment gives higher cp players a higher exp gain then the lower cp players. it was introduced as a keep up mechanism

No, it doesn't. Enlightenment gives every player 400k CP exp for their first 100k exp earned that day. It is the same for every player and has no bias towards either high or low CP players. Also, enlightenment was never a catchup mechanic, it was simply an incentive to log in at least once every 12 days.

I have to admit, Enlightenment is a wildcard here, even though my total shows the total xp needed, how it translate to game time is a different matter. However, there is no reason to put enlightenment on Veteran Level Xp, so using it as the deciding factor for CP being better then VR is a bit silly. Any bonuses they can apply to CP can easily be crossed over and vice versa, they can also be easily removed. The only way this argument is going to be dealt with once and for all is for cold hard data to be shown. I put my maths up, someone challenge it with their data.

Korah_Eaglecry · November 2015

Good Idea

Annalyse wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

For those of you asking for progression to stop at level 50 and not have VR or CP progression, Guild Wars 2 tried this approach. I hit cap level on 3 characters, then had nothing to do but PvP. Got bored of that in a month and left. Is that really more appealing?

I don't like that idea either. Sure, there would still be quests left to do but part of these games will always be about reaching that next goal, and generally that goal is levelling. I enjoy the questing but I also find it very satisfying each time I reach a new level and I can't imagine I would play as much without that.

If characters all stayed at level 50, then people like myself (who have no interest in PvP) would probably be more likely to play alts to level 50 and then quit. Right now I have goals to get them all to max level so I'll be here playing a lot longer if it stays the way it is now.

I wouldnt be against VR Levels and new levels if they werent getting out of hand with a new 2 VRs every update. We dont need an increase every damn time theres a new DLC out. That hurts the game in the long run when newer players pick up the game and realize the scope of what theyre getting into. Sure people want to have something to continuously to do. But they dont want to feel pressured to rush to the top.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

So when you posted that 400,000 * 900 = 360,000,000 you were demonstrating what exactly? Please help me to understand how your math is even remotely accurate according to the current system. 400k is no longer the average CP exp (unless the definition of the term has changed since I went to school). If it was then for each CP above 798 you would need to increase the cost appropriate to how much every point below 798 was reduced, which is not what happens.

Put your figures up for public scrutiny then we'll talk. And if you read the thread about the CP change they you would know that getting CP over 600 requires a lot more. But I also remember that they said that it still works out as the same xp just that you need less to start with.

Bottom line you want to argue about my maths, then put YOURS UP!

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

So when you posted that 400,000 * 900 = 360,000,000 you were demonstrating what exactly? Please help me to understand how your math is even remotely accurate according to the current system. 400k is no longer the average CP exp (unless the definition of the term has changed since I went to school). If it was then for each CP above 798 you would need to increase the cost appropriate to how much every point below 798 was reduced, which is not what happens.

Put your figures up for public scrutiny then we'll talk. And if you read the thread about the CP change they you would know that getting CP over 600 requires a lot more. But I also remember that they said that it still works out as the same xp just that you need less to start with.

Bottom line you want to argue about my maths, then put YOURS UP!

Here is a graph that explains it in an incredibly simple manner. I assume you know how to read a graph and tell that the average is nowhere near 400k. I will consider this matter settled unless you want to refute ZOS' formula with your own math.

EDIT: Feel free to play around with the limits of the graph but it really makes understanding how the current CP system works and will work when the CP cap is increased. Also, I did not include any penalties for being above cap but all you need to do is multiply the required CP exp by 1.5.

EDIT_2: Updated the link. Hopefully it works properly now.

Enodoc · November 2015

Good Idea

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit worse individually. With this system, you need a total of 16,048,092 XP above Level 50 to equip the gear that is currently VR16. Under the current system, you need 13,600,000 XP over 50. But if you have 8 Veteran characters, you would need 108,800,000 XP to equip that gear on every character, whereas under the new system, you only need 16,048,092 XP.

I would much prefer gear to not have a CP requirement at all.

While I undertand how this would be a slight penalty for a new player, I assume this does not account for enlightenment, which would reduce that total by 300k per day. That alone offsets the meager 2.5 million experience difference in just over 1 week. Can you clarify how enlightenment impacts your statement?

I always ignore enlightenment in calculations, but in the event of permanent enlightenment (ie, you don't play enough to earn 1200k XP in a week, so E always tops up before you use it), it would be 4,012,023 XP to get to 160 CP (VR16) under the new system.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

Enodoc wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit worse individually. With this system, you need a total of 16,048,092 XP above Level 50 to equip the gear that is currently VR16. Under the current system, you need 13,600,000 XP over 50. But if you have 8 Veteran characters, you would need 108,800,000 XP to equip that gear on every character, whereas under the new system, you only need 16,048,092 XP.

I would much prefer gear to not have a CP requirement at all.

While I undertand how this would be a slight penalty for a new player, I assume this does not account for enlightenment, which would reduce that total by 300k per day. That alone offsets the meager 2.5 million experience difference in just over 1 week. Can you clarify how enlightenment impacts your statement?

I always ignore enlightenment in calculations, but in the event of permanent enlightenment (ie, you don't play enough to earn 1200k XP in a week, so E always tops up before you use it), it would be 4,012,023 XP to get to 160 CP (VR16) under the new system.

So is it a fairly safe conclusion that most players will have less total CP exp to grind as long as they take at least 9 days to reach 160 CP on their first character?

Personally, I think the proposed system is very fair, especially for players with multiple characters. As long as a new player is not grinding excessively within the first week they will gain some benefit from the proposed system as well.

gard · November 2015

It's been a while since I logged on - my initial logon a week or so after Orsinium was met with long loading screens and lag, so I abandoned my session before even getting to Orsinium.

Are long loading screens and lag still a thing?
If so, veteran levels and cp are irrelevant.

bryanhaas · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Enodoc wrote: »

bryanhaas wrote: »

So someone in Cyrodil with one champion point and one with 501 will both show as level 50 so now real way to size up your opponents. Great.

The visibility of CPs is not the issue -- I like the supposition that CPs will be invisible -- the issue is the CPs themselves. CPs cause imbalance in Cyrodiil that goes counter to the purpose of battle-levelling in Cyrodiil. (Battle-levelling is supposed to level the playing field by making your VR/level irrelevant; that's why player VRs/levels don't appear in death recap.) Either battle-levelling needs to account for CP imbalance, or CPs should be disabled in Cyrodiil. If either of those happened, it wouldn't matter how many CPs the opponent has.

Or perhaps have one campaign with no battle leveling and all your CP's count and at least one with no CP's that way everyone is happy and of course one like it is now. I kinda don't want to see Vet ranks gone even though CP's are the main point and the levels do really mean anything. It will be nice not to have to level all my characters up to VR16 but on some level I kinda do want to have to level to VR16. Oh well not like they are going to change their mind.

Van_0S · November 2015

I still don't understand, why are you guys still complaining about CP?
We are able to gain Cp faster and its not like Veteran ranks, where you can't get this item and that as well being an easy target and kick out of GRP for others.

Atleast now, some players are able to grind TV stones in IC, finish DSA and craglorn quest.

Nolphi · November 2015

Good Idea

Great idea, really promotes having multiple toons which is currently a bit of a pain. People need constant progress and something to work on so please ignore all the crap about hurdles for new players. Just release a CP-less cyro campaign and let those people hang there.

Next items needs to be a small scale PVP arena and a fix to Cyro lag and you will have my vote for game of the millennium...

After that make all content in the game scale of CP and with CP based harvest nodes. Its a real shame that 95% of all game content gets ignored after first completion. I know you guys need to incentivize people to buy the DLCs but I dont think that making old content worthwhile in terms of XP and harvest nodes will somehow hurt your sales...

Van_0S · November 2015

Nolphi wrote: »

After that make all content in the game scale of CP and with CP based harvest nodes

What do you mean by that statement?.
Zos never said/posted in their thread a name change of Vet to Cp? or did they.....?

Enodoc · November 2015

Good Idea

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

I still don't understand, why are you guys still complaining about CP?

Primarily, I think, because they want to tie gear progression into CPs just like it was tied into VRs, when many people do not want any number-based restrictions at all. Restrictions on more powerful gear, for example, should be solely based on difficulty of acquisition, not an arbitrary number of CPs.

Nolphi wrote: »

After that make all content in the game scale of CP and with CP based harvest nodes.

By Azura I hope not. The point of removing the Veteran Ranks is to get rid of level-bound content, not to add different restrictions. I don't want to be forced to earn a number of CPs to play Content Y just because that's the number of CPs they scaled it to. Once you hit Level 50, nothing should be scaled to a certain number of CP.
Wait... unless you mean scale it off your CP, rather than a fixed CP value. That could work, but would be difficult to implement as everyone will have spent their CPs in different places.

Nolphi · November 2015

Good Idea

What I meant was make the mob difficulty and xp gain scale of CP same as it does in Orsinium (scales of your level) but then for all zones. So I could go back to starter zones and still have that be worth my time. The same vr16 style cap could still apply and I am not suggesting some sort of limitless CP based scaling.

Harvest nodes should also work as in Orsinium but instead of having that be individual character skill point based it could be based on CP allocation. It kinda sucks that with one toon I run in Orsinium and see Rubedite while an another sees Iron and they are both v16... and forcing me to spend 40 skill points on each toon just to have max level nodes seems a waste. Same goes for leveling horses by the way which is currently another discouraging element of starting a new toon...

mtwiggz · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

My honest opinion is that this seems to be another bandaid fix to an issue that they have yet figured out. There's too little "set in stone" information to make a certain decision on whether or not this will work well. With the information that has been released this far, it seems bad, real bad.

VR ranks aren't terrible. I've be advocating against them for nearly a year now. This alternative to making everything scale off of CP is an even worse idea. Could make the grind even worse than it already is. Not to mention once a character reaches max CP what are they to do? At least with VR ranks they can be increased every so often, you cannot up the amount of CP from 3600. That would cause such a ridiculous amount of imbalance, and an even worse grind-to-catch-up gap.

This entire change could be detrimental to the game. Tread carefully Zenimax.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

mtwiggz wrote: »

My honest opinion is that this seems to be another bandaid fix to an issue that they have yet figured out. There's too little "set in stone" information to make a certain decision on whether or not this will work well. With the information that has been released this far, it seems bad, real bad.

VR ranks aren't terrible. I've be advocating against them for nearly a year now. This alternative to making everything scale off of CP is an even worse idea. Could make the grind even worse than it already is. Not to mention once a character reaches max CP what are they to do? At least with VR ranks they can be increased every so often, you cannot up the amount of CP from 3600. That would cause such a ridiculous amount of imbalance, and an even worse grind-to-catch-up gap.

This entire change could be detrimental to the game. Tread carefully Zenimax.

The CP cap will continually be increased and no one will reach the max CP of 3,600 for several years due to how the current CP system works. Also, as the CP cap is increased the relative cost of each CP below the cap is also decreased so there is already a built-in acceleration mechanic for new accounts. It really is a good solution as long as raising the CP cap/requirement does not invalidate existing items how it did with the increase to v16.

This proposed solution is far from a bandaid fix and while I will be the first to critique ZOS for their missteps, this solution is actually very beneficial for most players (only new acccounts that grind to 160 CP within a week will be at a disadvantage). The fact that CP are account-based and given how enlightenment works it will require less experience for most players to reach 160 CP than it would v16. Once you include multiple characters per account there is no comparison as the CP system is way more beneficial and requires far less grinding.

Lastly, this change is still a ways off so ZOS doesn't need to have everything "set in stone" yet. What we do know is enough to see that ZOS is taking steps to correct their previous mistakes.

michaelarryn · November 2015

Good Idea

I think the biggest issue I have with removing veteran ranks is that ZOS is now making champion points the way of being leveled for gear. And yes, given Champion Points are account wide and can be gained by any character of VR status, the issue here isn't Champions Points, its the additional grind players would have to go towards beyond level 50. It was why Veteran Rank was bad in the first place- who wants to hit level 50 and still have to gain additional levels just to hit level cap? Its the reason why I don't have a single max VR character yet...its the reason why a good bit of casual players quit too because the task of going from VR 1 to VR 16 was a little more troublesome that 1-50. Now, if we have to gain Champion points to gain gear wouldn't we essentially be replacing one bad system with another?

Bottom Line:
Veteran Ranks: BAD
Champion Points: GOOD
Gear Based on # of Champion Points: HECK NO

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

You do know that CP were rescaled with Orsinium, right? They most certainly do not cost 400k each currently. In fact they do not cost 400k until the ~445th point under the current CP system. Thanks for the laugh though.

And above 450+ the cost is even higher, I'm sure I said on another post that it's an average (I assume you know what an average is?), but thanks for the laugh with your response anyway. But feel free to correct me with the actual grand total that you worked out showing your calculations of course, otherwise your words are nothing.

As for enlightenment, what is the guarantee that that will still be in the game, they have worked on a new formula for people to catch up.

So when you posted that 400,000 * 900 = 360,000,000 you were demonstrating what exactly? Please help me to understand how your math is even remotely accurate according to the current system. 400k is no longer the average CP exp (unless the definition of the term has changed since I went to school). If it was then for each CP above 798 you would need to increase the cost appropriate to how much every point below 798 was reduced, which is not what happens.

Put your figures up for public scrutiny then we'll talk. And if you read the thread about the CP change they you would know that getting CP over 600 requires a lot more. But I also remember that they said that it still works out as the same xp just that you need less to start with.

Bottom line you want to argue about my maths, then put YOURS UP!

Here is a graph that explains it in an incredibly simple manner. I assume you know how to read a graph and tell that the average is nowhere near 400k. I will consider this matter settled unless you want to refute ZOS' formula with your own math.

EDIT: Feel free to play around with the limits of the graph but it really makes understanding how the current CP system works and will work when the CP cap is increased. Also, I did not include any penalties for being above cap but all you need to do is multiply the required CP exp by 1.5.

You need to redo your graph mate, your Y is going up in increments of 100k, and your X goes up in increments of 1,000. I assume Y is for xp and X is for CP. According to your graph you only need 90,000 xp to earn your 900th CP and only 100 xp to earn your first, 200 xp to earn your second and so on. Why am I having trouble believing that.....

Next time I won't be nice.