How do you feel about the VR replacement ZOS is working on?

k2blader · November 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Artjuh90 · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

While your perspective seems to make sense I'm not going to try and speak for most people. I am going to speak for those who were around in closed BETA before all this mess came about.

Imagine this....
Start an account and pick a faction.
-pick a character and unlock all races if you have XYZ dlc
-play your faction to level 50 when World bosses were almost un-solo-able, and Dolmens were not solo-able. Basically the game was harder so it took time to reach 50 and you went back to complete things you had to skip at level or come back with a group of one or two others.
-Crafting worked by progression within the 50 levels of crafting and the passives but not 10 passive levels (subtract out all VR tiers)
-Cadwell silver n gold zones did not exist
-VR was a progression in the Cyrodil PvP environment and would raise every few months....ya know like the seasonal gear idea being thrown around
-Where Craglorn would have come as level 50 content prob considered a 52 or level 53 zone with bosses at 55 or so.

*Now compare to what we actually have today...which by thought is a mess
The only optional thing would be to have Cadwell content as free DLC but not as VR zones, just as optional content

I'm personally upset because we know the current VR system isn't ideal and to take 2 years to basically share that ZOS is keeping this mess in tact and only moving VR character levels and those restrictions to an account based limitation and restriction is upsetting when you look at what could exist.

An environment where technically they could add post 50 levels but not how they are doing it.

when the game was as it was designed......................
and cp leveling doesn't fix this

Artjuh90 · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

with this system the stats will differ on 2 scales. first on cp passives scales we all know how mutch that makes a difference. then also those same players will have more armor, beter passive on gear and more weapon/spell damage on weapon. so ZoS is buffing them in 2 ways

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

We're not against progression, if they were to reduce the material requirements for V16 gear they could up the levels every 6 months and we'd be like "well it's an mmo, it's to be expected". Instead current gear is going to be converted to 160 cp requirement, you have to be really naive to expect the highest armour in the game is only going to require 160 cp to wear. The fact is the levelling system should be really simple, a player should be able to turn around I say I'm level 60 and everyone knows what he means. Try talking to one of your friends about the level of your character... I'm Vet level 16 with 190 Championship Points, then try and explain to them what that means.

Also look at it from a new player point of view in 1 year time. They are going to come in, and see that they have to get to level 50, then they have to start their slog through the CP system to try and catch up. ZOS have stated that the average CP across it's player base has 90 CP. We know there are players out there that have 900 CP, that means 9 players have nothing for each player that has 900.

ZOS are trying something different, which is fine and great, but battle levelling hasn't been perfected yet. And when that starts working with CP instead we#re going to see some very strange things happen.

Hiero_Glyph · November 2015

Good Idea

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

Slurg · November 2015

Good Idea

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

While your perspective seems to make sense I'm not going to try and speak for most people. I am going to speak for those who were around in closed BETA before all this mess came about.

Imagine this....
Start an account and pick a faction.
-pick a character and unlock all races if you have XYZ dlc
-play your faction to level 50 when World bosses were almost un-solo-able, and Dolmens were not solo-able. Basically the game was harder so it took time to reach 50 and you went back to complete things you had to skip at level or come back with a group of one or two others.
-Crafting worked by progression within the 50 levels of crafting and the passives but not 10 passive levels (subtract out all VR tiers)
-Cadwell silver n gold zones did not exist
-VR was a progression in the Cyrodil PvP environment and would raise every few months....ya know like the seasonal gear idea being thrown around
-Where Craglorn would have come as level 50 content prob considered a 52 or level 53 zone with bosses at 55 or so.

*Now compare to what we actually have today...which by thought is a mess
The only optional thing would be to have Cadwell content as free DLC but not as VR zones, just as optional content

I'm personally upset because we know the current VR system isn't ideal and to take 2 years to basically share that ZOS is keeping this mess in tact and only moving VR character levels and those restrictions to an account based limitation and restriction is upsetting when you look at what could exist.

An environment where technically they could add post 50 levels but not how they are doing it.

You most certainly do not speak for everyone in the closed beta group. But since so many of them left in the early days after launch due to frustration with the lock step progression of veteran levels maybe some people will believe you. Beta days weren't the end all glory days either. If they were we'd still have that system.

Gear progression happens in MMOs. It's how it's done. Not having to grind every single character to a moving target max character level with every single update in order to get gear and be able to play the content with the class of your choice is a huge improvement. It remains to be seen how they are going to set the CP tiers for the gear levels but I'm willing to see what they propose before condemning it. Clearly the leveling system is not being kept "intact" and work is ongoing, though slow as molasses. If it's done well it will open up the world and give us a lot more options in how we choose to play.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For one thing we have no knowledge of if items with higher CP requirements will be better than those without them.

Logically, why would items with higher CP requirements NOT be better than those without them?

Zeni has to appease the grinders who currently sit at or near the CP cap.

I think "maxed CP" gear should have minimally better stats than "lowest CP" gear. But I doubt CP grinders will be content with that as they consciously equate their CP advantage with "skill."

Those are all assumptions based on your individual perspective, not logical conclusions. I definitely think ZOS could mess this up but based on what limited information is available it still looks to be an overall improvement over the current veteran rank system as the amount of necessary grinding will be reduced (especially for alts) and the number of places with max level enemies would increase. As for item balance, there is absolutely no information on this subjecct so we will have to wait and see how it will affect crafting and drop quality. Making any conclusions about items at this point would just be pure speculation.

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

Stikato · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Slurg wrote: »

Gear progression happens in MMOs. It's how it's done.

True, but what many of us don't want is the gear progression that was done early in the game. We had two cap raises and a gear re-balance done shortly after launch. I remember at looking huge inactive lists of guild members last year, and the max level that those who were inactive had reached. The number that kept coming up again and again was Vet 12.

Because having to *completely* regear every few months is a pain. And a lot of people don't like it. I don't mind there being new sets of equal power, or newer items. For example, with glaring exception of BOP, the sets in Orsinium are fine.

What I do mind, is the max power level of *every* item being raised every few months.*** Because now its 180 CP gear instead of 160. Oh, and now its 200. And now its 220.

^^^ This is why a lot of people wanted to see VR gone. Yeh Cadwells sucks, and easier to level alts under the new system. That's great stuff.

***If you want to really raise the max level of everything, give us a proper expansion. Ruins of Akavir (aka Kunark). A continent to explore. New gameplay. Housing. Naval combat. Something! Then I will happily "grind" to VCP X5000 or whatever they want to call it.

But don't slap 1 new zone on the game every few months, charge me $30 for it, and raise the level cap by some tiny amount, and call it progression.

Put it another way, would you be happy when your Level 160CP Maelstrom weapon that took 40-50 runs to get perfect becomes completely obsolete when the 180CP weapons come out 2 months from now?

Slurg · November 2015

Good Idea

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

Um, no, they changed that with the CP catch up system.

tangy.citrus · November 2015

Good Idea

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

So VR18 actually is coming to game (and VR20... VR22... VR24...) it's just that they won't call it Veteran Rank...

No, instead they'll call it "Champion Rank 550"... "Champion Rank 600"... etc...

So a few DLCs down the line, when they raise the Champion Cap again, you'll see gear like this:

...and you better hope you're Champ Rank 502 by then!

Good luck trying to balance anything when the people with more Champion Points than you (ya'know, the people who are already stronger than you by virtue of having more CP passives) can also equip better gear than you!

This is lousy game design and is absolutely exclusionary to new players and players with limited play time

I KNOW, why let the players who have played longer and better than us have the better gear too? LIKE WTF, makes too much gosh darn sense. ZOS should just hand out max cp, BiS gear, monies, and a hot towel to every new player that joins the game. Like SHEEET.

wayfarerx · November 2015

Good Idea

Slurg wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

Um, no, they changed that with the CP catch up system.

Also, enlightenment plays a role here as well.

Slurg · November 2015

Good Idea

Stikato wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Gear progression happens in MMOs. It's how it's done.

True, but what many of us don't want is the gear progression that was done early in the game. We had two cap raises and a gear re-balance done shortly after launch. I remember at looking huge inactive lists of guild members last year, and the max level that those who were inactive had reached. The number that kept coming up again and again was Vet 12.

Because having to *completely* regear every few months is a pain. And a lot of people don't like it. I don't mind there being new sets of equal power, or newer items. For example, with glaring exception of BOP, the sets in Orsinium are fine.

What I do mind, is the max power level of *every* item being raised every few months.*** Because now its 180 CP gear instead of 160. Oh, and now its 200. And now its 220.

^^^ This is why a lot of people wanted to see VR gone. Yeh Cadwells sucks, and easier to level alts under the new system. That's great stuff.

***If you want to really raise the max level of everything, give us a proper expansion. Ruins of Akavir (aka Kunark). A continent to explore. New gameplay. Housing. Naval combat. Something! Then I will happily "grind" to VCP X5000 or whatever they want to call it.

But don't slap 1 new zone on the game every few months, charge me $30 for it, and raise the level cap by some tiny amount, and call it progression.

Put it another way, would you be happy when your Level 160CP Maelstrom weapon that took 40-50 runs to get perfect becomes completely obsolete when the 180CP weapons come out 2 months from now?

Yes let's engage in wild speculation and rage!

We have no idea yet how all of this is going to be implemented. But thanks for choosing to selectively quote part of something I said for your rant.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Slurg wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

Um, no, they changed that with the CP catch up system.

No, what they've done is created a catch up formula so those with less cp can catch up, and those with more cp have to earn more xp to gain a cp. There was a thread about it and some one did the maths. If the person that did that also want to do it here showing the actual amount feel free, but I'm under the impression that it still works out at an average of 400,000 xp per cp. Might actually be a bit less as ZOS have stated that you should be able to earn 2.5 CP for each Vet level.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

wayfarerx wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

An account has access to 8 character slots, at the moment each vet level requires 850.000 xp.

(850,000x16)x8=108,800,000 That is the maximum xp required to get all 8 character to V16.

We know from looking at the achievements that the intention is to have 900 CP. At the moment, 1 CP is earned from 400,000 XP.

400,000x900=360,000,000 for the whole account. Remember CP can only be earned at level 50.

Is Gordon Brown doing the maths here?

Um, no, they changed that with the CP catch up system.

Also, enlightenment plays a role here as well.

Any bonuses for awarding extra xp can be given to Veteran xp and CP xp. They can just as easily put enlightened on Vet xp. Therefore I have not taken Enlightened into account.

Emma_Overload · November 2015

Good Idea

Sounds GREAT to me! Leveling alts over VR1 is so tiresome.

Zhoyzu · November 2015

Good Idea

SublimeSparo wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

This is unnecessary, but not a problem.

How exactly is this "worse than VR"?

At the moment someone could have 501 CP, and be vr16 in all legendary vr16 gear, you could have 90 CP and also have full vr16 legendary gear
New system someone could have 501 CP, in all legendary CP300 gear, you could have 90 CP but be limited to say CP50 gear.
The power gap actually widens

But it doesnt have to. In the same way someone who was vr14 at the time CP was released they awarded 70 CP the gear could have then required 70 CP. The ability to narrow the gap is much better and more possible than with the VR system.
They dont have to keep increasing the gear level at all. If they do they'll have royally f#c%ed up.

Being narrow-minded about the issue isnt helping either. its just fear mongering essentially.

Starshadw · November 2015

I never saw the big deal in VR levels in the first place. Levels are levels. I guarantee, people will be complaining as soon as there aren't any more levels, about how they don't feel as though they can "advance" their character enough.

NovaShadow · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

I don't mind the conversion to CP.

But I disagree with gear being tied to a CP rank.

Skayaq · November 2015

I don't really care what they do with VR, as long as it means you don't have to do Cadwell's Almanac to start doing endgame content. It's fine that it's there, but it shouldn't be something you have to do, and both of the other factions should be unlocked after you defeat Molag Bal.

Alphashado · November 2015

Good Idea

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

well look at the most succesful MMO: WoW they had a hard cap with levels so there is no problem with that.

Umm... what? o.O WoW started out with a cap of level 60.. then it went to level 70 with Burning Crusade expansion, then it went to up again to 80 with Wrath of the Lich King, then it went up to 85 with Cataclysm, then it went up to 90 with Mists of Pandaria, then it went up to 100 with Warlords of Dreanor, then 110 with Legion. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but if anything, WoW is a perfect example to my point.

MMOs are in a constant state of progression, it's the nature of the beast. Just to use WoW as an example again since you brought it up, I imagine that new players to that game are just as daunted by trying to reach level 110 as new players to ESO are by trying to reach V16 and/or 160 CP.

WoW also started to add catch-up mechanics just like ESO is doing for this very reason.

BitterBanana94 · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Damned CP requirement on gear... *sighs*

Otherwise amazing system.

Artjuh90 · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Alphashado wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

well look at the most succesful MMO: WoW they had a hard cap with levels so there is no problem with that.

Umm... what? o.O WoW started out with a cap of level 60.. then it went to level 70 with Burning Crusade expansion, then it went to up again to 80 with Wrath of the Lich King, then it went up to 85 with Cataclysm, then it went up to 90 with Mists of Pandaria, then it went up to 100 with Warlords of Dreanor, then 110 with Legion. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, but if anything, WoW is a perfect example to my point.

MMOs are in a constant state of progression, it's the nature of the beast. Just to use WoW as an example again since you brought it up, I imagine that new players to that game are just as daunted by trying to reach level 110 as new players to ESO are by trying to reach V16 and/or 160 CP.

yet they kept hard caps which each expension. that is what i mean that hard caps on levels can work in a MMO. so with increasing levels you can still get progression comming back on the post i anwsered "Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression."
but reading it again i think we mean the same thing

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Slurg wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

I am getting the very distinct impression that most of the people unhappy with this conversion do not want any type of progression. Sounds to me like a lot of people aren't upset because Vet Ranks are being removed, they are upset because Vet Ranks are being replaced with a different form of progression. I'm getting the impression that people were hoping for some kind of hard cap on character levels that would stay forever.

Maybe that's what ES fans want, but I can assure you that the MMO fans want/crave/need progression.

I cannot think of one other AAA MMO that does not increase level/gear caps in increments along with content expansions. Maybe there are a few, but not many. I would love to see a few people come clean, stop suggesting that this conversion is a bad form of progression, and just admit that you are angry because they aren't stopping progression.

While your perspective seems to make sense I'm not going to try and speak for most people. I am going to speak for those who were around in closed BETA before all this mess came about.

Imagine this....
Start an account and pick a faction.
-pick a character and unlock all races if you have XYZ dlc
-play your faction to level 50 when World bosses were almost un-solo-able, and Dolmens were not solo-able. Basically the game was harder so it took time to reach 50 and you went back to complete things you had to skip at level or come back with a group of one or two others.
-Crafting worked by progression within the 50 levels of crafting and the passives but not 10 passive levels (subtract out all VR tiers)
-Cadwell silver n gold zones did not exist
-VR was a progression in the Cyrodil PvP environment and would raise every few months....ya know like the seasonal gear idea being thrown around
-Where Craglorn would have come as level 50 content prob considered a 52 or level 53 zone with bosses at 55 or so.

*Now compare to what we actually have today...which by thought is a mess
The only optional thing would be to have Cadwell content as free DLC but not as VR zones, just as optional content

I'm personally upset because we know the current VR system isn't ideal and to take 2 years to basically share that ZOS is keeping this mess in tact and only moving VR character levels and those restrictions to an account based limitation and restriction is upsetting when you look at what could exist.

An environment where technically they could add post 50 levels but not how they are doing it.

You most certainly do not speak for everyone in the closed beta group. But since so many of them left in the early days after launch due to frustration with the lock step progression of veteran levels maybe some people will believe you. Beta days weren't the end all glory days either. If they were we'd still have that system.

Gear progression happens in MMOs. It's how it's done. Not having to grind every single character to a moving target max character level with every single update in order to get gear and be able to play the content with the class of your choice is a huge improvement. It remains to be seen how they are going to set the CP tiers for the gear levels but I'm willing to see what they propose before condemning it. Clearly the leveling system is not being kept "intact" and work is ongoing, though slow as molasses. If it's done well it will open up the world and give us a lot more options in how we choose to play.

I don't speak for all nor did I suggest I do but I do speak for that group as I'm a part of it. Others can speak as they feel too but hear it as this....speaking from changed pre and post closed beta my perspective from there to now is....

This isn't about gear progression AT ALL Also MMO doesn't mean a specific thing or game design. It's a server type of game and that's it. Same as RPG which doesn't drive a specific type of game other than giving said player a role to play.

If you remove VR levels gear progression still occurs and exists because gear progression is not locked to VR. The gear progression happens because ZOS locks it to material progression. What you seem to miss is that removing VR and using CP doesn't award anyone the mats that are where gear progression lies.

If you plan to dungeon grind for gear then perhaps if ZOS locks the existing mats to CP tiers then you'll find stuff that way but that's not what I'm pointing out as a problem.
There is a difference between linking gear drops or awarding gear and mats based on CP tiers is fine but using CP tiers as restrictions to use gear is not fine just based on how CP and the catch up work. The good is the post 50 leveling will change. I'm suggesting as shared and as I write this will not be done well as it still seems to attempt to base the changes on the problems that was created in closed beta.

CaptainObvious · November 2015

So basically their new system is just a hack. They should cut the effort, leave stuff as is and focus on a more useful endeavor.

For people complaining about silver and gold, there are areas where you can get around that now.

Based on their new system, 10 CP gives the equivalent benefit of a vet rank. Given that you earn a vet rank at approximately 3 CP gained, there is a slower rate of return.

As people earn CPs, then they earn vet ranks and verse vica.

Instead of this re-hash hack, they could be working on adding weapon poisons, or jewelry crafting.

What happens with level balancing? Since CPs are effectively the levels, then when you go to Wrothgar will there be CP scaling?

Stikato · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Slurg wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Gear progression happens in MMOs. It's how it's done.

True, but what many of us don't want is the gear progression that was done early in the game. We had two cap raises and a gear re-balance done shortly after launch. I remember at looking huge inactive lists of guild members last year, and the max level that those who were inactive had reached. The number that kept coming up again and again was Vet 12.

Because having to *completely* regear every few months is a pain. And a lot of people don't like it. I don't mind there being new sets of equal power, or newer items. For example, with glaring exception of BOP, the sets in Orsinium are fine.

What I do mind, is the max power level of *every* item being raised every few months.*** Because now its 180 CP gear instead of 160. Oh, and now its 200. And now its 220.

^^^ This is why a lot of people wanted to see VR gone. Yeh Cadwells sucks, and easier to level alts under the new system. That's great stuff.

***If you want to really raise the max level of everything, give us a proper expansion. Ruins of Akavir (aka Kunark). A continent to explore. New gameplay. Housing. Naval combat. Something! Then I will happily "grind" to VCP X5000 or whatever they want to call it.

But don't slap 1 new zone on the game every few months, charge me $30 for it, and raise the level cap by some tiny amount, and call it progression.

Put it another way, would you be happy when your Level 160CP Maelstrom weapon that took 40-50 runs to get perfect becomes completely obsolete when the 180CP weapons come out 2 months from now?

Yes let's engage in wild speculation and rage!

We have no idea yet how all of this is going to be implemented. But thanks for choosing to selectively quote part of something I said for your rant.

Sorry, I didn't mean anything by just quoting one thing you said. And my post wasn't solely directed at you. It was just the idea that every MMO has this that I wished to respond to particularly.

That being said, I'm not ranting or raging.

And I am certainly not engaging in wild speculation.

The fact is, the devs have proven they like to raise the level cap in very small increments. This has caused a lot of re-gearing and unhappiness. This is not speculation, this is simply what has happened. This game has had three tiny level cap increases, and one total gear rebalance, with not a lot of content to show for it. This new VR/CP system seems to be poised to continue this trend.

My opinion is simply that I would rather have a big cap increase with a lot of accompanying content, then 1 zone and tiny level cap increase every few months.

You talk about what happens in MMOs, but what MMO has forced its players to replace their gear 4 times in 16 months? (Launch -> IC Launch).

newtinmpls · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The main difference being that you don't have to grind VR with every alt; it's an account-wide grind so that it's not as excessive. It will be longer to do through CP being more and slower, but the account-wide leveling appeals to me as I switch between my chars a bit.

how is that different?

Any CP now on any of my (low) vet level characters applies to the whole account. So now I can have the CP accumulated by slowly exploring/playing on my v1, v1, v4, v5 characters.

With this new system I'm limited to my "highest" character - so I would loose all that.

The gap gets wider.

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Good Idea

newtinmpls wrote: »

MrDerrikk wrote: »

The main difference being that you don't have to grind VR with every alt; it's an account-wide grind so that it's not as excessive. It will be longer to do through CP being more and slower, but the account-wide leveling appeals to me as I switch between my chars a bit.

how is that different?

Any CP now on any of my (low) vet level characters applies to the whole account. So now I can have the CP accumulated by slowly exploring/playing on my v1, v1, v4, v5 characters.

With this new system I'm limited to my "highest" character - so I would loose all that.

The gap gets wider.

All it would do is mean that all your chars are now the equivalent of VR5 (or even higher if you have more CP than that amount before this change). With the catch-up and enlightened mechanics you can get to the cap a whole lot faster than it should take levelling four alts to VR16.

Above the Cao though the XP needed is pretty extreme, so when the cap is raised it's likely you will need to level it again. This will be almost exactly the same as raising VR though

Isbilen · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

What all of you who intend to stick around with this game for a while need to think about is how this will affect the health of the game.

I get it that you want progression, but no new player is going to come in to this game and keep playing once he realizes how far he will be behind everyone else statistically. The only change in the population will be outgoing, and I believe that this will be the death of the game.

Also remember, when this happens and the servers shut down, your characters are gone forever and all of you who treated this like a job, working only to progress your stats will have wasted thousands of hours of your lives.

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Good Idea

Isbilen wrote: »

What all of you who intend to stick around with this game for a while need to think about is how this will affect the health of the game.

I get it that you want progression, but no new player is going to come in to this game and keep playing once he realizes how far he will be behind everyone else statistically. The only change in the population will be outgoing, and I believe that this will be the death of the game.

Also remember, when this happens and the servers shut down, your characters are gone forever and all of you who treated this like a job, working only to progress your stats will have wasted thousands of hours of your lives.

You're speaking as if you hate MMO's, this is pretty much what they are?

Isbilen · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

MrDerrikk wrote: »

Isbilen wrote: »

What all of you who intend to stick around with this game for a while need to think about is how this will affect the health of the game.

I get it that you want progression, but no new player is going to come in to this game and keep playing once he realizes how far he will be behind everyone else statistically. The only change in the population will be outgoing, and I believe that this will be the death of the game.

Also remember, when this happens and the servers shut down, your characters are gone forever and all of you who treated this like a job, working only to progress your stats will have wasted thousands of hours of your lives.

You're speaking as if you hate MMO's, this is pretty much what they are?

This game isn't an MMO if those of us who were here since the beginning don't always have % this and % that more than the guy who started playing after us?

What I am saying is that it would be in the best interest of anyone who cares about the this game for it to be something a potential player will want to pick up. If he knows that he will always be at a disadvantage to the old-timers, why would he bother?