Racials work in single player elder scrolls experiences, not an elder scrolls MMO

Corellon Thromorin · November 2015

Snowgoons wrote: »

Corellon Thromorin wrote: »

Learn 2 Play Lore

Snowgoons wrote: »

He might be a min-maxer but clearly there's advantages to more magicka based races, and clearly we all agree that other races were mages and shamans etc, so why again in this game are orcs, redguards, khajiit, HIGH ELVES when they go stamina build, etc etc etc being forced into having racials not useful to their class in ANY way?

You're NOT forced into having racials, they are optional, you must spend skill points in them. Nuff said.

I didn't say you were forced to put points into these racials.

Learn 2 Troll Reading Comprehension.

They are optional, you don't need them. You also don't need to trash the lore just because you want to have an argonian with 5% more something. We've had racials since the first Elder Scrolls game, mate, and sincerely, Nords with bonus magicka don't really make sense.

dRudE · November 2015

Actually I've found the players who chose a race that wasn't perfectly min-maxed for their class to be a better player overall by having to build more carefully and overcoming weaknesses.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2015

Okay a lot of people seem to think race don't matter it's a 400-300 DPS difference that's a big difference.

Also to all the some races are just better at some things lore wise not all elves have magic, the best Arch Mage ever is an Nord, the deadliest Assassins are Argonians Shadow Scales.

Lore wise Imperials make better Battle mages then tanks and better diplomats then fighters.

Many of the views here are just wrong.

Digiman · November 2015

Snowgoons wrote: »

There's a reason 90% of sorcs are altmer/breton, everyone on this forum loves to talk about how great the choice and flexibility of this game is, yet we see 2 races filling 90% of a class for "lore" reasoning when in reality everyone is just rolling the race cause it's the "best."

How many argonian anything do you see?

This is fine to the people who want to be the best and don't care but I for one would like to see some variety.

@ZOS consider a better racial system, maybe a back story system for lore, if a argonian was adopted and raised by high elves he would have more Magicka affinity as an example.

The game shouldn't be just everyone choosing Altmer, Breton, and Dark Elf for Magicka everything OR accepting being worse at the character just to not give in and become another ESO lemming.

Clearly lore would state there's Magicka using orcs etc so why can't they gear their character towards more Magicka? Are you telling me every orc is a melee tank? Sigh.

NO!

So sick of you adults acting like whining children over racials because you WANT TO MIN/MAX STATS EVERYTHING!

Racial had nothing to do with me picking my race for my class, even picking Mundus stones isn't my concern. MAX DPS isn't required to clear a dungeon. Get it through your heads.

What's worse is the fact that your whining over racials is circumvented by the fact they require SKILL POINTS TO ACTIVATE!

Snowgoons · November 2015

Digiman wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

There's a reason 90% of sorcs are altmer/breton, everyone on this forum loves to talk about how great the choice and flexibility of this game is, yet we see 2 races filling 90% of a class for "lore" reasoning when in reality everyone is just rolling the race cause it's the "best."

How many argonian anything do you see?

This is fine to the people who want to be the best and don't care but I for one would like to see some variety.

@ZOS consider a better racial system, maybe a back story system for lore, if a argonian was adopted and raised by high elves he would have more Magicka affinity as an example.

The game shouldn't be just everyone choosing Altmer, Breton, and Dark Elf for Magicka everything OR accepting being worse at the character just to not give in and become another ESO lemming.

Clearly lore would state there's Magicka using orcs etc so why can't they gear their character towards more Magicka? Are you telling me every orc is a melee tank? Sigh.

NO!

So sick of you adults acting like whining children over racials because you WANT TO MIN/MAX STATS EVERYTHING!

Racial had nothing to do with me picking my race for my class, even picking Mundus stones isn't my concern. MAX DPS isn't required to clear a dungeon. Get it through your heads.

What's worse is the fact that your whining over racials is circumvented by the fact they require SKILL POINTS TO ACTIVATE!

Actually read what you typed here. I'll give you a moment.

Ok now actually read what I typed.

Ok so one can assume you can read right? So where did I say anything about max dps or clearing a dungeon?

Get this through to your head: I, as well as many other players am sick of seeing min maxers choose the same race for every class, this has no impact on my personal gameplay.

If you don't like this idea go ahead and continue playing what you're playing it has no effect on you so why are you banging your forehead on the N and O keys?

Stop assuming you know people based on your personal vendetta vs min maxers and you won't end up in this predicament again.

MrDerrikk · November 2015

How are ESO races any different from other MMO's? Besides, I don't see these as proof that warrior races need to be able to learn other passives, but that all the racials need to be balanced better. That way people wanting to min-max would have the pick of the lot. (Oh, and for softcaps to come back so hybrid races are viable again).

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 · November 2015

I have an Argonian DK tank..

MrGrimey · November 2015

There's Breton Sorcs? Why? when the only optimal race is High Elf thanks to the elemental passive

There is literially only 1 viable sorc race and that's High Elf, not Breton

Imo the cost reduction passive should be changed to 3% cost reduction & 3% magic damage increase

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 · November 2015

I have a Breton Sorc..

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

I have a Breton Sorc..

As do I. I like the magic resist and cost reduct, although they could stand to be buffed a little from where they are now.
That, or bring back my favorite thing about facing Altmer...weakness to elemental damage!

Snowgoons · November 2015

If @ZOS broke down what percent of what races are each class there would be a wild amount of evidence that this game needs a change when it comes to racials.

Anyone who mentions other MMOs read this:

Just because other MMOs do something doesn't make it acceptable. Racials skills have always been stupidly implemented.

You don't fix that by doing the exact same thing again.

Was the same in Dark Age of Camelot, people who wanted to play and enjoy an elf blademaster or lurikeen hero were forced to take on horribly bad tanking stats compared to the "big" races like firbolg or troll warriors in midgard, why people don't comprehend or want variety is beyond me.

Stuff that affects no one else's gameplay and you got people screaming like children in this thread "No!"

Would it be game breaking to see an Argonian with 4% Magicka if he swapped one of his racials?

It's mind boggling how some of you think.

Shadesofkin · November 2015

I know plenty of players who play off type that complete all the content.

Some of the best players in the game have been known to play off type.

Racial bonuses are fine, they might need a tad bit of tweaking here and there, but they're fine.

Draxys · November 2015

Snowgoons wrote: »

OtarTheMad wrote: »

I get what you're saying but Altmers, Bretons should always understand/be better at magicka than other races. Can a non-altmer or Breton be powerful? Absolutely, Dragon Priests are still probably some of the most powerful mages to ever walk Nirn and they were Atmorans. Falmer in their pre-altered state also understood magicka very well (maybe almost better than altmer) and you have heard of some Bosmer in the Psijic Order.

Some races will just be better at magicka than others but that doesn't mean that you can't have a powerful Orc mage, or a dangerous Altmer warrior or anything like that. In game though you can get just about any race to have good spell power, max magicka and good regeneration with just the right gear.

This is a game at the end of the day and if you (not you OP but just people in general) aren't making Bretons stamina nightblades, Nord healing Templars, Orc magicka DKs or Argonian sorcs (as an example) and want to then that's not ZOS' fault.

Quick good examples: Sypher's magicka NB is an Imperial, King Richard (I think he's still magicka) is Redguard magicka sorc, I know of an Orc DK who was a pretty good healer (can't remember the name but my guildie would talk about him sometimes) Just play the game as whatever race you want and have fun. People might be thinking about this a little too much and acting like the crap we do in ESO goes on some resume or something, just play.

King Richard said MULTIPLE times the exact words "If you want to do magicka you have to go high elf, it can work but I'd have 3000 more magicka as a high elf"

and then he respecced to stamina. He said the ONLY reason he was magicka was because he didn't have the sets yet for his stamina build.

He might be a min-maxer but clearly there's advantages to more magicka based races, and clearly we all agree that other races were mages and shamans etc, so why again in this game are orcs, redguards, khajiit, HIGH ELVES when they go stamina build, etc etc etc being forced into having racials not useful to their class in ANY way?

Once again: No one is saying let a argonian have the same magicka as a breton or high elf, I'm saying they SHOULD have the option of at least getting a few percent seeing as in the lore every single race has a magicka using character.

Draxys wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

How is racial passive balance any different from class balance? People act like passives don't matter, but then class balance shouldn't matter either. Why do people dismiss passive balance? It's just as important as any other area of the game.

This isn't balance, the people wanting passives to change chose to be a certain race that wasn't particularly ideal for what they're doing. Yes they do dumb things like ruin argonian nightblades, but that's another matter entirely.

and that's really how you think the game should be? you want everyone "choosing the race that was ideal" for everything so that you never see an argonian anything? That's what you'd prefer the elder scrolls online to be? Sometimes I wonder if players like you can see outside of your own personal worlds.

Junkogen wrote: »

It's because ZOS designed these passives under much different conditions. They then changed the game and not the passives. Argonians just happened to get shafted the hardest. It's at outdated system that needs an overhaul to reflect the new game. That's why people want race change options. It's also why ZOS will probably not change much. They're going to make a mint off that Crown Store race change potion. Stone-cold business.

Exactly. It's BS. I personally would like to see tarot cards for character creation, choose one for magicka, health, stamina, and you get racials more related towards whatever you chose with a lore backstory justifying it. If I choose argonian magicka backstory a narrator should say for example: "My parents were killed at a young age I was raised in a mages guild orphanage blah blah blah" and give you like 4% Magicka at the price of say less after drinking a potion.

If the tarot card idea is too complex, let people trade one of their racials for a list of ZOS approved racials, trade argonian swimming speed for 4% magicka SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

I never said no one should be argonian anything. I just think that at some point, your race should matter. Every race should do something unique, not everything be the same thing just with a different body type.

MrDerrikk · November 2015

That fact is, you can't change biology through upbringing. This is where the "classes" from Oblivion/Morrowind work, where you still have the same racial bonuses that others of your race do, but you have added points into the certain skills that fit your characters backstory/playstyle.

TheShadowScout · November 2015

Digiman wrote: »

So sick of you adults acting like whining children over racials because you WANT TO MIN/MAX STATS EVERYTHING!

Agreed...

Snowgoons wrote: »

Exactly. It's BS. I personally would like to see tarot cards for character creation, choose one for magicka, health, stamina, and you get racials more related towards whatever you chose with a lore backstory justifying it. If I choose argonian magicka backstory a narrator should say for example: "My parents were killed at a young age I was raised in a mages guild orphanage blah blah blah" and give you like 4% Magicka at the price of say less after drinking a potion.

If the tarot card idea is too complex, let people trade one of their racials for a list of ZOS approved racials, trade argonian swimming speed for 4% magicka SOMETHING, ANYTHING.

So, another "let me cherry-pick my passives so I can min/max everything" comment, is it?
Let me pre-empt someone...

AngryNord wrote: »

This should only happen the day after they've removed Elder Scrolls from the game's title and all references to the TES unverse in-game. I.e. never.

Point one - that would be completely against TES lore. Orcs have always been depicted as focussed on physical strength, high elves and their breton half-cousins have always been depicted as having a knack for magica manipulation, Bosmer and Khajiit have always been depicted as sneaky...People do hot -have- to choose that build, but the races have an extra advantage in those fields written into their lore. Its part of the "Elder Scrolls" feeling, which is a good portion of the reason some of us ever bought the game

Point two - that would be compeltely against common sense. The racial passives are not for the most part skills you pick up through your upbringing, they are -racial- attributes. Like, say, races that developed in africa have higher skin pigmentation that those who adapted to scandinavia. Or like cats being better tree climbers then dogs. Or in the case of tamriel, mer blood making someone more in tune with the flow of magica. Or argonian vestigal remains from their amphibouis ancestry giving them a edge in swimming. The -only- thing that could be changed with such backstory fluff would be the training advantage for one skill, which frankly, is pretty worthless IMO anyhow...

Point three - letting people cherry pick their passives to mix max even worse makes for cr... uhm... suboptimal gameplay, since the builds will get ever similar. If you like to play a game where there are no differences, fine, go ahead. Find yourself one. Just don't expect all the people here who enjoy these small details to follow your notions! Just don't expect us to agree this one should drop TES lore we cheriosh to cater to your wishes.

Artis · November 2015

Snowgoons wrote: »

@ZOS consider a better racial system, maybe a back story system for lore, if a argonian was adopted and raised by high elves he would have more Magicka affinity as an example.

I agree that race shouldn't matter much and that people should simply pick it for looks. I disagree with what I quoted though. No matter who adopted and raised an argonian, his DNA won't change because of that. If a family of wolves adopts a rabbit it's not like it's gonna start eating meat.

But seriously though, in other TESO games racial passives only affected the early game. By the end you could've reached maximum of something by playing a race that doesn't have a bonus for it - it would just take more time. Passives were kinda like the first-tier racials in ESO.
I really don't like the fact that in ESO race is important in end game, kinda feel bad for not taking the best race back when I created a toon because I know I am by default worse than those who picked it. And it's not that easy to reroll in MMO and in ESO in particular: achievements, mounts, skill lines..

Dualrifle · November 2015

Reading all this makes me wonder, why eso always only had pure breed character? Is there some how some crossing argonian x khajit in any lore or any other "half" breed? Half nord? I know that one of the npc in the main quest is half giant but...... Hmm...

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Artemis wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

@ZOS consider a better racial system, maybe a back story system for lore, if a argonian was adopted and raised by high elves he would have more Magicka affinity as an example.

I agree that race shouldn't matter much and that people should simply pick it for looks. I disagree with what I quoted though. No matter who adopted and raised an argonian, his DNA won't change because of that. If a family of wolves adopts a rabbit it's not like it's gonna start eating meat.

But seriously though, in other TESO games racial passives only affected the early game. By the end you could've reached maximum of something by playing a race that doesn't have a bonus for it - it would just take more time. Passives were kinda like the first-tier racials in ESO.
I really don't like the fact that in ESO race is important in end game, kinda feel bad for not taking the best race back when I created a toon because I know I am by default worse than those who picked it. And it's not that easy to reroll in MMO and in ESO in particular: achievements, mounts, skill lines..

I disagree that racials weren't important in other ES games. Being a Breton meant you didn't have to worry about magicka attackers due to the awesome resist for one.
If anything they mattered a lot more due to the huge values of the passives. The powers were pretty OP too.

Turelus · November 2015

Am I the only one who likes that specific races lean towards specific classes, like actually makes sense in the lore?

Either you're an MMO gamer and you min/max or your and RP player and you don't care. Just play what's fun for you and otherwise don't worry about it. You don't HAVE to have perfect racials for your class, it just helps a little.

Volkodav · November 2015

I have another note to add. It's just cosmetics for me.
I dont play Argonians simply because I dont care for the look of the race.Same with Khajiits.They do have good things to offer,but I just prefer the more human looking races.And I really dont like the Nords.They look weird.Really weird.And dont tell me to put a helmet on.Lol! I have a V1 Breton who is a great archer,or can switch to a tank with a weapon swap.I dont play healers.Most are DKs or NBs.Tried SAcorcs but thought them too squishy,though they do have those nice battle pets! I do Bretons or Imperials.
People just have preferences,and any race can be anything.If people dont choose the races you like,you just have to live with it. It's never even been a thought for me.I find there are tons fo both Khajiits and Argonians,and could care less what class they are.

Junkogen · November 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Okay a lot of people seem to think race don't matter it's a 400-300 DPS difference that's a big difference.

Also to all the some races are just better at some things lore wise not all elves have magic, the best Arch Mage ever is an Nord, the deadliest Assassins are Argonians Shadow Scales.

Lore wise Imperials make better Battle mages then tanks and better diplomats then fighters.

Many of the views here are just wrong.

I agree. All these lore junkies never complain about how lore-breaking the Imperial passives are, but when an Argonian wants a fair shake, it's the first sign of Elder Scrolls Armageddon.

Honestly, I think the Argonians are the only race left that desperately needs an overhaul. Every other race has decent passives . Argonians passives are just SO bad. Nobody recommends them for anything. I don't understand how ZOS can think the current situation is fair and balanced.

TheShadowScout · November 2015

Dualrifle wrote: »

Reading all this makes me wonder, why eso always only had pure breed character? Is there some how some crossing argonian x khajit in any lore or any other "half" breed? Half nord? I know that one of the npc in the main quest is half giant but...... Hmm...

There have always been halfbreeds in TES lore.
They generally take on the racial characteristics of their mother, with some features of their father.

Any dunmer with non-red eyes? That's a feature from some foreign blooded daddy somewhere in their ancestry.

A redguard with light hair or eyes? Same.

A extra tall nord? Same. Sorta. (and don't I wish we could buy that feature to use in character customization from the crown store)

...I am not -quite- sure about Bosner with deer horns though...

Snowgoons · November 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Okay a lot of people seem to think race don't matter it's a 400-300 DPS difference that's a big difference.

Also to all the some races are just better at some things lore wise not all elves have magic, the best Arch Mage ever is an Nord, the deadliest Assassins are Argonians Shadow Scales.

Lore wise Imperials make better Battle mages then tanks and better diplomats then fighters.

Many of the views here are just wrong.

I agree. All these lore junkies never complain about how lore-breaking the Imperial passives are, but when an Argonian wants a fair shake, it's the first sign of Elder Scrolls Armageddon.

Honestly, I think the Argonians are the only race left that desperately needs an overhaul. Every other race has decent passives . Argonians passives are just SO bad. Nobody recommends them for anything. I don't understand how ZOS can think the current situation is fair and balanced.

Agreed man.

But according to this thread Argonians are 100% fine, it's funny how people say certain races should be certain stuff and they like how it currently is, when the lore itself is completely broken with some of the choices in this game, but hey as stated in this thread "I like it and because I like it it should never change"

You got people in this game who would not change their character anyways complaining at "min maxers" (cause if you want anything related to the class you choose on your race you're a min maxer)

It's hilarious how defensive other people will get acting like it's not a big deal or not important, if it's not important let the change happen and stop defending something that "doesnt matter" clearly it matters for some reason to some people that Argonians never get a fair shake like Junk stated in the above quote.

Zhoyzu · November 2015

WTB reduced fall dmg khajiit racial passive

Snowgoons · November 2015

Zhoyzu wrote: »

WTB reduced fall dmg khajiit racial passive

+1 Thats a pretty cool idea, but be careful where u state it cause pimply trolls don't like good ideas!

ZioGio · November 2015

Snowgoons wrote: »

If @ZOS broke down what percent of what races are each class there would be a wild amount of evidence that this game needs a change when it comes to racials.

This, right here, is part of the disconnect in this (and related) discussions. One can't make a conclusion that if the evidence existed it would definitely show a predetermined result that favors one's argument.

Anyway, in regards to racial passives and min/maxing, to each their own. I prefer how the game currently handles racial passives and I'm a fan of the beast races. I also would not fault someone from choosing a race based on the passives because their choice has no bearing on my game play.

If one really wants to initiate change, they should submit feedback through the game tool. Keep it simple and attitude-neutral, but do focus on the benefits the player base would receive from implementing the suggestion.

Snowgoons · November 2015

ZioGio wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

If @ZOS broke down what percent of what races are each class there would be a wild amount of evidence that this game needs a change when it comes to racials.

This, right here, is part of the disconnect in this (and related) discussions. One can't make a conclusion that if the evidence existed it would definitely show a predetermined result that favors one's argument.

Anyway, in regards to racial passives and min/maxing, to each their own. I prefer how the game currently handles racial passives and I'm a fan of the beast races. I also would not fault someone from choosing a race based on the passives because their choice has no bearing on my game play.

If one really wants to initiate change, they should submit feedback through the game tool. Keep it simple and attitude-neutral, but do focus on the benefits the player base would receive from implementing the suggestion.

This right here proves you obviously aren't in tune with anything around you. If you think anything less than high elves being the majority of Sorcs, you are so far disconnected from this topic it's not even funny lol.

khele23eb17_ESO · November 2015

TBH I think in an MMO racials should be a matter of lore, not actual stats. You choose a race in character creation and it says 'traditionally dwarves are talented warriors and devoted followers of...' and thats it. You then see it reflected in the lore presented in the game world. If the devs want some extra passives they should make a background questionnaire for each race which allows players to craft the characters 'story up to now' with perks and bonuses depending on chosen options.

Snowgoons · November 2015

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

TBH I think in an MMO racials should be a matter of lore, not actual stats. You choose a race in character creation and it says 'traditionally dwarves are talented warriors and devoted followers of...' and thats it. You then see it reflected in the lore presented in the game world. If the devs want some extra passives they should make a background questionnaire for each race which allows players to craft the characters 'story up to now' with perks and bonuses depending on chosen options.

100%

ZioGio · November 2015

Snowgoons wrote: »

ZioGio wrote: »

Snowgoons wrote: »

If @ZOS broke down what percent of what races are each class there would be a wild amount of evidence that this game needs a change when it comes to racials.

This, right here, is part of the disconnect in this (and related) discussions. One can't make a conclusion that if the evidence existed it would definitely show a predetermined result that favors one's argument.

Anyway, in regards to racial passives and min/maxing, to each their own. I prefer how the game currently handles racial passives and I'm a fan of the beast races. I also would not fault someone from choosing a race based on the passives because their choice has no bearing on my game play.

If one really wants to initiate change, they should submit feedback through the game tool. Keep it simple and attitude-neutral, but do focus on the benefits the player base would receive from implementing the suggestion.

This right here proves you obviously aren't in tune with anything around you. If you think anything less than high elves being the majority of Sorcs, you are so far disconnected from this topic it's not even funny lol.

Disconnected is not the opposite of hyper-fixated and over-generalizations don't prove anything. I'm not saying that High Elves don't make up the majority of Sorcerers; it may be true. I just pointed out the fallacy of making a declaration on a conditional when you don't have the data; it's circular reasoning. And if it's not even funny, why are you LOLing? ;-)