How do you feel about the VR replacement ZOS is working on?

Anasatsudo · November 2015

They need a post-50 level progression system. I preferred the veteran level system (for attribute points + skill points), and the CP system was interesting for a passive system. Sure, the VR levels take some time to complete, but..

Speaking of which, how are they going to work the skill points and attribute points?

RAGUNAnoOne · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Anasatsudo wrote: »

They need a post-50 level progression system. I preferred the veteran level system (for attribute points + skill points), and the CP system was interesting for a passive system. Sure, the VR levels take some time to complete, but..

Speaking of which, how are they going to work the skill points and attribute points?

Good question if they take away my hard earned skill points I will be VERY upset.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Anasatsudo wrote: »

They need a post-50 level progression system. I preferred the veteran level system (for attribute points + skill points), and the CP system was interesting for a passive system. Sure, the VR levels take some time to complete, but..

Speaking of which, how are they going to work the skill points and attribute points?

It was mentioned that you would get the skill points for every 10 CP earned up to 160 CP, I didn't see anything about attribute points.

Alphashado · November 2015

Good Idea

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Anasatsudo wrote: »

They need a post-50 level progression system. I preferred the veteran level system (for attribute points + skill points), and the CP system was interesting for a passive system. Sure, the VR levels take some time to complete, but..

Speaking of which, how are they going to work the skill points and attribute points?

It was mentioned that you would get the skill points for every 10 CP earned up to 160 CP, I didn't see anything about attribute points.

"We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)"

Vangy · November 2015

Good Idea

320 cp at the moment. Have spent last week grinding up 7 alts to 50. Stam/magicka for each class. Hello FOTM cyrodill.

Zos buff dk? Sure this month I'll be a dk.

Zos nerf dk? No problem I'll just hop onto nb.

Cloak nerf? Sure thing bro ill sizzle it up with mah sorc.

Sorc gets nerfed? Whatever I can outheal with Templar.

Woot! Now ball groups will be one single class who are the strongest at a point in time spamming Aoe. This will truly make zos carefully look at balancing. I mean now people can't just hop from class to class unless they've already spent years grinding up alts. With this new change everyone can have 8 slots filled and rearing to go. 1-50 can be done in 2 days even if ur slow as hell lol. When cyrodill gets filled with 99% shield stacking sorcs or nb gankers zos will have no choice but to balance everyone in pvp/pve. Now all the crying dks don't need to cry anymore cos they can just level a sorc in 2 days and do a simple gear swap ftw!

jeagerb16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Really prefer to keep vet levels and drop champion points, ideally add further vet levels and maintain an even playing field.

Digiman · November 2015

I wonder if I will keep the skill points I received from my VR as well...

Annalyse · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

So how will this work with quest content after level 50? Will difficulty scale to the player? Example - my current highest is VR10, so if one of my alts got to 50 they would essentially be VR10 also from what I am reading here. So, when that alt started Cadwell's Silver would the creatures in the area be that level? It will be really annoying if everything is super easy to kill because it isn't scaled and my alts are instantly higher level. But at the same time, other people coming into the same area might be on their first character and have significantly less points, thereby needing easier creatures. I'm confused by how they will make this work.

I don't like grinding, but I personally like the game how it is. I play a lot of alts but I still like questing through the game on all of them, and the only thing I would want changed is to have enough quests that you would never have to grind to reach max level (I still have a portion of Gold to do on my VR10 but I'm sure that + Orsinium wouldn't be enough to reach VR16).

I honestly just wish they would make the levels 1-65. I'm all about taking it slow and enjoying the content in games like this, but levelling is always a goal and it is nice to see how the levels progress. Switching to VR1 after 49 wasn't too bad but I'll find it really annoying to go from 49 to something weird like CP 100. I guess I just prefer things simpler.

Artjuh90 · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Vangy wrote: »

320 cp at the moment. Have spent last week grinding up 7 alts to 50. Stam/magicka for each class. Hello FOTM cyrodill.

Zos buff dk? Sure this month I'll be a dk.

Zos nerf dk? No problem I'll just hop onto nb.

Cloak nerf? Sure thing bro ill sizzle it up with mah sorc.

Sorc gets nerfed? Whatever I can outheal with Templar.

Woot! Now ball groups will be one single class who are the strongest at a point in time spamming Aoe. This will truly make zos carefully look at balancing. I mean now people can't just hop from class to class unless they've already spent years grinding up alts. With this new change everyone can have 8 slots filled and rearing to go. 1-50 can be done in 2 days even if ur slow as hell lol. When cyrodill gets filled with 99% shield stacking sorcs or nb gankers zos will have no choice but to balance everyone in pvp/pve. Now all the crying dks don't need to cry anymore cos they can just level a sorc in 2 days and do a simple gear swap ftw!

i read your post and think you voted wrong. this would be a reason not to have cp based leveling in cirodill cause everyone will be the same class (well kinda like atm NB and sorc everywere but still)

Sandmanninja · November 2015

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Sounds good.

I dont know how VRs were so bad, we all knew they couldnt keep going with them forever. Did you guys really imagine they are going to increase normal levels to 60 and VRs to 100? And when they are at 100 VR level, theres 50 different endgame material?

You DO REALIZE that this is a bait and switch, right? They are literally just turning V16 gear into CP160 gear... and there will eventually be CP200 gear... and CP550 gear... and CP700 gear... and CP2000 gear...

(put yourself in the shoes of a new player who joins the game 2 years from now)

They actually found a way to continue the endless Vet Rank increases while making it SEEM like they're doing you a favor taking Vet Ranks away...

Sooo.... ZOS is allowing us to continue to level our characters? Otherwise we'd stagnate and rot and have no reason to log on.

MrDerrikk · November 2015

Good Idea

Annalyse wrote: »

So how will this work with quest content after level 50? Will difficulty scale to the player? Example - my current highest is VR10, so if one of my alts got to 50 they would essentially be VR10 also from what I am reading here. So, when that alt started Cadwell's Silver would the creatures in the area be that level? It will be really annoying if everything is super easy to kill because it isn't scaled and my alts are instantly higher level. But at the same time, other people coming into the same area might be on their first character and have significantly less points, thereby needing easier creatures. I'm confused by how they will make this work.

I don't like grinding, but I personally like the game how it is. I play a lot of alts but I still like questing through the game on all of them, and the only thing I would want changed is to have enough quests that you would never have to grind to reach max level (I still have a portion of Gold to do on my VR10 but I'm sure that + Orsinium wouldn't be enough to reach VR16).

I honestly just wish they would make the levels 1-65. I'm all about taking it slow and enjoying the content in games like this, but levelling is always a goal and it is nice to see how the levels progress. Switching to VR1 after 49 wasn't too bad but I'll find it really annoying to go from 49 to something weird like CP 100. I guess I just prefer things simpler.

They would most likely scale all Cadwells and the like in the same way as Orsinium, so you can do the questing if you want to but if you've done it through once you don't need to again.

It'll take a bit of getting used to, but I like the fact this means we won't be forced into Cadwells after lvl50 like it is currently. That said, I'm doing every single Cadwells quest ATM so that I get all the dyes from it, and know that I've completely done it at least once.

phillyproduct · November 2015

Good Idea

10pages of what

Shadesofkin · November 2015

Good Idea

I stand by the changes being proposed. I continue to believe that the removal of Veteran Ranks and a focus on the Champion System is healthier for post 50 content.

Grileenor · November 2015

Good Idea

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I stand by the changes being proposed. I continue to believe that the removal of Veteran Ranks and a focus on the Champion System is healthier for post 50 content.

Just like me.

Prabooo · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

... but enrich the content, please...

purplederpy · November 2015

It's not WORSE... but it's not better. In fact, it's the same thing by a different name.
"Noo that helmet no longer requires you to be VR16. Now it requires you to be CP rank 160!"

Enodoc · November 2015

Good Idea

I like the "one Champion Rank for all characters" idea, as it allows you to continue to progress on any character which has hit 50. What I don't like is the suggestion that gear will be tied to Champion Rank.

What I put in the other thread:

Enodoc wrote: »

If vertical power is the way they want to go [with gear], why does there need to be a CP requirement on it at all? Say rubedite remains the "most powerful"; why shouldn't someone with 1 CP be able to equip it, if they have put in the effort to get the required mats (either through paying for them directly, or paying a crafter for the gear, or successfully running the required difficult content)? There's no reason to restrict more powerful gear to characters with more CP; there's already an increased difficulty in getting rubedite over voidstone anyway. Isn't that sufficient? To restrict the powerful gear based on the difficulty of its attainment, rather than an arbitrary number?

jeagerb16_ESO wrote: »

ideally add further vet levels and maintain an even playing field.

※ Error in Proof! Contradiction Detected! ※

bertenburnyb16_ESO · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Think i'm about some with this game

Dubhliam · November 2015

Good Idea

Progression is good. No matter how many people would want to instantly become "highest level", reaching your maximum potential early is off putting, and many people would become bored quick and leave the game.
Nobody wants a dead game with no population.
However, they really should make it a less grindy experience.

One other thing: Make old v1-v14 gear viable again. I'm not saying they should have the same stats as current v16 gear, just saying they should not be obsolete.

My idea is to make ALL current v1-v14 gear equippable instantaneously. BUT it should scale to current v1 values. Then, make it that the bonus values become higher with more CP spent in certain constellations.
F.E.
spell resistance bonus value should become higher with each CP point spent in spell shield.
spell critical bonus value should become higher with each CP point spent in elfborn.
etc.
Newer and better gear should have prerequisites like Spell Precision, Riposte, Synergiser and others to equip, but scale a little better with CP spent.

I'm not saying this is a really thought-out idea, but anything beats having to grind exp to be able to wear something.

Arunei · November 2015

The way I see it, there's always going to be a gap in games where PvP is a thing. If I were to start playing WoW now, I wouldn't expect to play for a few months and catch up with people who've been playing for years. People need to realize that others who have been playing longer will obviously be more powerful. This whole "never be able to catch up" thing just baffles me. I would never expect to be able to easily catch up to vet players without years of playing myself.

Also people keep talking like new players are only going to be playing against old ones. But uh...if new people are constantly coming to the game, you guys do realize they'd be on par with each other, for the most part, right? And as they go through the game they'll get better and stronger, and will in turn be stronger than waves that come after. It's just how it goes. There's always going to be someone stronger, but there's also always going to be people of equal or lesser strength. You guys going on about how new players will "never stand a chance" actually sounds a little demeaning and patronizing imo. Like you think that just because they might not be able to compete against players who've been around since launch means they're helpless and won't be able to achieve anything.

With all that being said, I've been telling people that they wouldn't flat-out remove the VR system. There's far too much tied to it. I assumed they'd just rework them a bit to be level 51, 52, and so on. If they're going to fully switch it to the CP system, I'm kind of worried how much it'll end up breaking stuff.

hydrocynus · November 2015

Couldn't find the option for "Honestly don't give a daedrats hinie" so I didn't vote.

Turelus · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

How would he be at a disadvantage with the catch up mechanic? New players can catch up and equal long time players. I'm fine with that and it's good for the game.

The gap for this is getting constantly bigger though, unless they continue to nerf the XP needed for new fresh 50 chars to get CP then eventually you'll be right back where you started.

Champion system should have been more akin to the Legacy system in SWTOR where it's more about useful abilities/time savers/epeen than hard combat power.

Elijah_Crow · November 2015

Good Idea

Turelus wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

How would he be at a disadvantage with the catch up mechanic? New players can catch up and equal long time players. I'm fine with that and it's good for the game.

The gap for this is getting constantly bigger though, unless they continue to nerf the XP needed for new fresh 50 chars to get CP then eventually you'll be right back where you started.

Champion system should have been more akin to the Legacy system in SWTOR where it's more about useful abilities/time savers/epeen than hard combat power.

That's exactly how the formula works. The higher the cap, the less XP needed per champion point. This will create a situation where it is always possible for new players to catch up to the average champion points quickly. The information and formula is present in the Orsinium patch notes.

Elsonso · November 2015

purplederpy wrote: »

It's not WORSE... but it's not better. In fact, it's the same thing by a different name.
"Noo that helmet no longer requires you to be VR16. Now it requires you to be CP rank 160!"

Yeah, pretty much this. It appears that all they are doing is changing the name and throwing on a false mustache to fool facial recognition.

Enodoc · November 2015

Good Idea

bertenburnyb16_ESO wrote: »

The whole idea was to remove gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead they make it worse -_-
They could just encourage people to craft new gear with new styles or sets

Yeah, it does seem to be a bit worse individually. With this system, you need a total of 16,048,092 XP above Level 50 to equip the gear that is currently VR16. Under the current system, you need 13,600,000 XP over 50. But if you have 8 Veteran characters, you would need 108,800,000 XP to equip that gear on every character, whereas under the new system, you only need 16,048,092 XP.

I would much prefer gear to not have a CP requirement at all.

BuggeX · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Vangy wrote: »

320 cp at the moment. Have spent last week grinding up 7 alts to 50. Stam/magicka for each class. Hello FOTM cyrodill.

Zos buff dk? Sure this month I'll be a dk.

Zos nerf dk? No problem I'll just hop onto nb.

Cloak nerf? Sure thing bro ill sizzle it up with mah sorc.

Sorc gets nerfed? Whatever I can outheal with Templar.

Woot! Now ball groups will be one single class who are the strongest at a point in time spamming Aoe. This will truly make zos carefully look at balancing. I mean now people can't just hop from class to class unless they've already spent years grinding up alts. With this new change everyone can have 8 slots filled and rearing to go. 1-50 can be done in 2 days even if ur slow as hell lol. When cyrodill gets filled with 99% shield stacking sorcs or nb gankers zos will have no choice but to balance everyone in pvp/pve. Now all the crying dks don't need to cry anymore cos they can just level a sorc in 2 days and do a simple gear swap ftw!

i dont think my heavy seducer with Stamina willpower would work well on a sorc, just saying.
But you dont get on Thing, ppls who dont want to Play alts, dont do it, even if they would instant start at max lvl.
Ppls who Play alts allready have attleast 4 max lvl alts

Uriel_Nocturne · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

BuggeX wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

320 cp at the moment. Have spent last week grinding up 7 alts to 50. Stam/magicka for each class. Hello FOTM cyrodill.

Zos buff dk? Sure this month I'll be a dk.

Zos nerf dk? No problem I'll just hop onto nb.

Cloak nerf? Sure thing bro ill sizzle it up with mah sorc.

Sorc gets nerfed? Whatever I can outheal with Templar.

Woot! Now ball groups will be one single class who are the strongest at a point in time spamming Aoe. This will truly make zos carefully look at balancing. I mean now people can't just hop from class to class unless they've already spent years grinding up alts. With this new change everyone can have 8 slots filled and rearing to go. 1-50 can be done in 2 days even if ur slow as hell lol. When cyrodill gets filled with 99% shield stacking sorcs or nb gankers zos will have no choice but to balance everyone in pvp/pve. Now all the crying dks don't need to cry anymore cos they can just level a sorc in 2 days and do a simple gear swap ftw!

i dont think my heavy seducer with Stamina willpower would work well on a sorc, just saying.
But you dont get on Thing, ppls who dont want to Play alts, dont do it, even if they would instant start at max lvl.
Ppls who Play alts allready have attleast 4 max lvl alts

The characters in my sig are a direct refutation of your claims.

BuggeX · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

320 cp at the moment. Have spent last week grinding up 7 alts to 50. Stam/magicka for each class. Hello FOTM cyrodill.

Zos buff dk? Sure this month I'll be a dk.

Zos nerf dk? No problem I'll just hop onto nb.

Cloak nerf? Sure thing bro ill sizzle it up with mah sorc.

Sorc gets nerfed? Whatever I can outheal with Templar.

Woot! Now ball groups will be one single class who are the strongest at a point in time spamming Aoe. This will truly make zos carefully look at balancing. I mean now people can't just hop from class to class unless they've already spent years grinding up alts. With this new change everyone can have 8 slots filled and rearing to go. 1-50 can be done in 2 days even if ur slow as hell lol. When cyrodill gets filled with 99% shield stacking sorcs or nb gankers zos will have no choice but to balance everyone in pvp/pve. Now all the crying dks don't need to cry anymore cos they can just level a sorc in 2 days and do a simple gear swap ftw!

i dont think my heavy seducer with Stamina willpower would work well on a sorc, just saying.
But you dont get on Thing, ppls who dont want to Play alts, dont do it, even if they would instant start at max lvl.
Ppls who Play alts allready have attleast 4 max lvl alts

The characters in my sig are a direct refutation of your claims.

exceptions prove the rule

but then, i also have alts, one at v6 or 7, but this doesnt mean i Play them. how often you Play your alts?
Alts for Crafting or Mulealts doesnt Count btw.

Uriel_Nocturne · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

BuggeX wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

320 cp at the moment. Have spent last week grinding up 7 alts to 50. Stam/magicka for each class. Hello FOTM cyrodill.

Zos buff dk? Sure this month I'll be a dk.

Zos nerf dk? No problem I'll just hop onto nb.

Cloak nerf? Sure thing bro ill sizzle it up with mah sorc.

Sorc gets nerfed? Whatever I can outheal with Templar.

Woot! Now ball groups will be one single class who are the strongest at a point in time spamming Aoe. This will truly make zos carefully look at balancing. I mean now people can't just hop from class to class unless they've already spent years grinding up alts. With this new change everyone can have 8 slots filled and rearing to go. 1-50 can be done in 2 days even if ur slow as hell lol. When cyrodill gets filled with 99% shield stacking sorcs or nb gankers zos will have no choice but to balance everyone in pvp/pve. Now all the crying dks don't need to cry anymore cos they can just level a sorc in 2 days and do a simple gear swap ftw!

i dont think my heavy seducer with Stamina willpower would work well on a sorc, just saying.
But you dont get on Thing, ppls who dont want to Play alts, dont do it, even if they would instant start at max lvl.
Ppls who Play alts allready have attleast 4 max lvl alts

The characters in my sig are a direct refutation of your claims.

exceptions prove the rule

but then, i also have alts, one at v6 or 7, but this doesnt mean i Play them. how often you Play your alts?
Alts for Crafting or Mulealts doesnt Count btw.

My VR6 NB and VR7 Sorcerer get alternating nights. My VR3 Khajiit Templar is the one I play with my wife frequently.

The lower characters don't get mush love right now, but that's because I'm having issues with my RP for them, but they do get played.

So yeah, I don't use any of them as crafting mules right now. They get played.

bryanhaas · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

So someone in Cyrodil with one champion point and one with 501 will both show as level 50 so now real way to size up your opponents. Great.