Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

craigvigneaultub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Just remember what happened to DK when people asked for nerfs...Also the toolip of ambush/lotus fan says "flash through the shadows" not "flash out of the shadows" so maybe it's intended. I don't think it's really a big deal, the main issue is all gap closers in general need tweaking, and ambush needs a minimum distance like others. Also toppling charge is undodgeable, that should be fixed.

My god, this. just look at how much the DKs cry on these forums. nobody at any point in this games history has complained as much about their class as DKs do now. We don't need another repeat of that with nightblades or sorcs.

Sorry, but nightblades are the #1 whingers NA and EU. They spent the first year+ whinging on the forums about thier class (and about DKs).

EVERYONE complained about DKs. NB's only wanted their broken skills fixed, like cloak; which you basically just rolled the dice every time you cast it back then.

Manoekin wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So ZOS has been meeting with trade guilds for awhile and the store is still as bad as it is today?


Looks like those weekly meetings are paying off. Who do they send, the janitor to take notes?

And I agree devs should be meeting with pvp guilds. But then which playstyle? Zerg blob or small group? Casual pvp or 5 hour hardcore session players?

In response to my questions above, they should be meeting with you and other guests on the podcast with other community voted figure heads. But still worried though with good devs gone, how any of our suggestions get implemented. Or if our suggestions are as easy to place at all. One step at a time.

I think we need to solidify as a pvp community, organize and offer the devs substantial reasoning to listen to us over pve (which is what I see this podcast as and can do.)

I'm trying to do something like this, but I need contact with ZOS. Have a guild with a lot of good group players and inviting solo players from all factions. However, need ZOS's attention in order to get things moving if anyone can help with that.

Sypher wrote: »

Episode 4 Happening tonight! @7PM US Central

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

Episode 4 Happening tonight! @7PM US Central

What guests will you have?

Hopefully more than 1 Templar; maybe 1 stam and 1 magicka/healer to have their voices heard in the class discussion.

Stikato wrote: »

I agree 100% that class balance is important, but that discussion tends to get bogged down in the details of individual skills, and smaller debates.

I think there are larger issues in the game that require a consensus of players to agree on how to fix them, and this is what this podcast is better served doing. There are just more serious problems with this game atm. Class balance is a moving target; you can address it and address it, and there will still be imbalance. But getting some small-scale pvp, removing aoe caps, getting more attention paid to lag will benefit us all.

uberkull wrote: »

As I enjoy the podcasts, these are all very talented, small scale PvPers, Sypher and Fengrush builds are nice....for pvp. But they hardly represent the entire community across PC and console. If you really want to get a PVE presence, bring Deltia into the mix. He can bring a lot to the table and actually discuss vet dungeon PVE and class skills for PVE.

As it stands, these guys have biased opinions based on their ability or inability to perform in PvP. AOE cap, Zerg, ball, broken skills for pvp, etc etc. The problem with this bias is that the classes can't be fixed or balanced for just pvp or pve, they are balanced for both. If abilities are nerfed, they get nerfed regardless of the enemy, player or mob. This has to be considered before ZOS acts and changes something.

Remove AOE cap? How about just create battlegrounds that only have 12 players total? Objective based pvp. AOE cap doesn't impact pve, so it won't be removed. It will just be modified. The core problem is that these pvpers are trying to take out large groups in Cyrodiil solo or in groups of 4, they get zerged and get rolled. Their AOE only affects 6 people in the Zerg. Well, in the end....you really shouldn't expect 4 players to take out a group of 24.

Stop Zergs? Well....Cyrodiil is designed for large group pvp, it is siege warfare, not a battleground. Numbers will always crush small groups. Zergs cause performance problems? Maybe you should try console, 50v50...no problem on console. The game can handle it, PC ESO just isn't optimized like console was. Console removed a lot of the flare and draw distance, console renders players only when they get closer...otherwise they are black silhouettes. Graphics aren't as sharp and detailed on console, but...hey...Gameplay over eye candy. It's a good balance on console.

With all that said, if we DON'T have Twitch streamers like this going above and beyond making these Podcasts, this game won't be saved. MMOs require active communities with active players, not casuals. ZOS needs to listen and act quickly or they will lose their core commnutiy that was here from day one. MMOs need their core communities to survive and evolve, bringing new players to the game. How the hell would I know? I was a day one player in WoW, 2004. I played for 10 years straight through all the xpacs and witnessed the cycles of players that stayed, that left, that raged for changes. This is nothing new, the difference is that Blizzard listened and acted quickly, evolving to match their player's needs.

ZOS devs and designers finally posting on the forum is encouraging. Hopefully we will see results.

uberkull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

As I enjoy the podcasts, these are all very talented, small scale PvPers, Sypher and Fengrush builds are nice....for pvp. But they hardly represent the entire community across PC and console. If you really want to get a PVE presence, bring Deltia into the mix. He can bring a lot to the table and actually discuss vet dungeon PVE and class skills for PVE.

As it stands, these guys have biased opinions based on their ability or inability to perform in PvP. AOE cap, Zerg, ball, broken skills for pvp, etc etc. The problem with this bias is that the classes can't be fixed or balanced for just pvp or pve, they are balanced for both. If abilities are nerfed, they get nerfed regardless of the enemy, player or mob. This has to be considered before ZOS acts and changes something.

Remove AOE cap? How about just create battlegrounds that only have 12 players total? Objective based pvp. AOE cap doesn't impact pve, so it won't be removed. It will just be modified. The core problem is that these pvpers are trying to take out large groups in Cyrodiil solo or in groups of 4, they get zerged and get rolled. Their AOE only affects 6 people in the Zerg. Well, in the end....you really shouldn't expect 4 players to take out a group of 24.

Stop Zergs? Well....Cyrodiil is designed for large group pvp, it is siege warfare, not a battleground. Numbers will always crush small groups. Zergs cause performance problems? Maybe you should try console, 50v50...no problem on console. The game can handle it, PC ESO just isn't optimized like console was. Console removed a lot of the flare and draw distance, console renders players only when they get closer...otherwise they are black silhouettes. Graphics aren't as sharp and detailed on console, but...hey...Gameplay over eye candy. It's a good balance on console.

With all that said, if we DON'T have Twitch streamers like this going above and beyond making these Podcasts, this game won't be saved. MMOs require active communities with active players, not casuals. ZOS needs to listen and act quickly or they will lose their core commnutiy that was here from day one. MMOs need their core communities to survive and evolve, bringing new players to the game. How the hell would I know? I was a day one player in WoW, 2004. I played for 10 years straight through all the xpacs and witnessed the cycles of players that stayed, that left, that raged for changes. This is nothing new, the difference is that Blizzard listened and acted quickly, evolving to match their player's needs.

ZOS devs and designers finally posting on the forum is encouraging. Hopefully we will see results.

It was stressed a lot on there that we dont want to remove large groups from Cyro - that is how its designed, how its always been, and I actually enjoy fighting on a large battlefield. The difference between a lot of numbers and ball groups is what the meta has become though. You have to acknowledge and understand that difference to understand any of the points being made there.

Theres nothing wrong with removing AOE caps. As far as PVE perspective goes (it does effect it, you mistated that) - I think we can shed plenty of light on it. The greatest impact youre talking about here is trials where AOE is used against trash mobs. Solution is to amp trash mobs defenses or increase mobs resistance against AOE abilities. Its not rocket science to tackle these issues.

AOE caps, broken skills, ball groups - these issues effect everyone. To say were biased in a negative way would be misguided. As I said on the podcast, Id hope the game would be moved back towards equality in terms of balance. As it stands today, its actually imbalanced and favoring large groups. Large groups get more AP, passive defenses and ultimately the ball group style doesnt help with performance - it hurts it. Making the game equal and discouraging ball groups would 1) help performance and 2) make things fair. Personally, itd make PvP a lot more interesting too - but thats just a bonus on trying to make the game playable again.

Hey man, I get it, and I'm with you on most points. But there is no denying the podcast is all pure pvpers. I enjoyed watching your stream the other week when you had the day off and grinded all day on Maelstrom Arena(another bow please), but you were heading right back to pvp once you got the weapons you wanted. You said it yourself, You focus on pvp, and the opinions of the podcast originate from a pvp perspective.

PvP != PVE.

Trash mobs aren't really considered an AOE burden, so if you're hitting 6 out of 20..you move 1 inch and you hit another 6. Again, the AOE cap is really a issue in pvp.

I'm sure you have seen Deltia stream before, when he runs the training sessions on how to maximize dps on bosses, right rotations, boss phases, skill optimization for pve.....all PVE....it's a whole different perspective on what other parts of the game are working and what isn't.

Again...as far as performance on PC, I can assure you ZOS has the answer, they did it for console, Cyrodiil is completely playable at all times no matter the number of people on console. ZOS knows what they need to do, but the end result would kill the visuals you have on PC. Texture maps, draw distance, models....all of it would need to go down several notches. Then they would reduce the particle effects and finally the chatter between the client and server for positional reference. In the end, not sure the PC player would like the downgrade.

You are never going to stop how people want to group up in Cyrodiil. Zerg, ball group, our small groups. Players will continue to play the way they play, regardless of the changes ZOS makes. Players will adapt and still Zerg and ball.

I'm tired of pushing the topic, but queued battlegrounds like any other true pvp game has, is the answer. It satisfies small scale, organized pvp, and it forces fixing skills to be more balanced and effective. WoW nailed it with MMO BGs, the model is out there, ZOS just has to make the rewards for Cyrodiil attractive enough so that if they do introduce BGs that Cyrodiil won't be a ghost town like IC already is.

Again, I think you guys are doing a great job in presenting a hardcore players perspective on the state of the game. I'm just pointing out the perspective is slanted and coming from a PVP mentality. I know SypherPK has tried to include PVE players in the discussion, you had the one guy on mic only the one week....but he never came back.

Anyways, you take the time to stream and podcast, it brings players to the game, ZOS knows this and in the end they should listen to what you have to say regardless.

uberkull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

As I enjoy the podcasts, these are all very talented, small scale PvPers, Sypher and Fengrush builds are nice....for pvp. But they hardly represent the entire community across PC and console. If you really want to get a PVE presence, bring Deltia into the mix. He can bring a lot to the table and actually discuss vet dungeon PVE and class skills for PVE.

As it stands, these guys have biased opinions based on their ability or inability to perform in PvP. AOE cap, Zerg, ball, broken skills for pvp, etc etc. The problem with this bias is that the classes can't be fixed or balanced for just pvp or pve, they are balanced for both. If abilities are nerfed, they get nerfed regardless of the enemy, player or mob. This has to be considered before ZOS acts and changes something.

Remove AOE cap? How about just create battlegrounds that only have 12 players total? Objective based pvp. AOE cap doesn't impact pve, so it won't be removed. It will just be modified. The core problem is that these pvpers are trying to take out large groups in Cyrodiil solo or in groups of 4, they get zerged and get rolled. Their AOE only affects 6 people in the Zerg. Well, in the end....you really shouldn't expect 4 players to take out a group of 24.

Stop Zergs? Well....Cyrodiil is designed for large group pvp, it is siege warfare, not a battleground. Numbers will always crush small groups. Zergs cause performance problems? Maybe you should try console, 50v50...no problem on console. The game can handle it, PC ESO just isn't optimized like console was. Console removed a lot of the flare and draw distance, console renders players only when they get closer...otherwise they are black silhouettes. Graphics aren't as sharp and detailed on console, but...hey...Gameplay over eye candy. It's a good balance on console.

With all that said, if we DON'T have Twitch streamers like this going above and beyond making these Podcasts, this game won't be saved. MMOs require active communities with active players, not casuals. ZOS needs to listen and act quickly or they will lose their core commnutiy that was here from day one. MMOs need their core communities to survive and evolve, bringing new players to the game. How the hell would I know? I was a day one player in WoW, 2004. I played for 10 years straight through all the xpacs and witnessed the cycles of players that stayed, that left, that raged for changes. This is nothing new, the difference is that Blizzard listened and acted quickly, evolving to match their player's needs.

ZOS devs and designers finally posting on the forum is encouraging. Hopefully we will see results.

It was stressed a lot on there that we dont want to remove large groups from Cyro - that is how its designed, how its always been, and I actually enjoy fighting on a large battlefield. The difference between a lot of numbers and ball groups is what the meta has become though. You have to acknowledge and understand that difference to understand any of the points being made there.

Theres nothing wrong with removing AOE caps. As far as PVE perspective goes (it does effect it, you mistated that) - I think we can shed plenty of light on it. The greatest impact youre talking about here is trials where AOE is used against trash mobs. Solution is to amp trash mobs defenses or increase mobs resistance against AOE abilities. Its not rocket science to tackle these issues.

AOE caps, broken skills, ball groups - these issues effect everyone. To say were biased in a negative way would be misguided. As I said on the podcast, Id hope the game would be moved back towards equality in terms of balance. As it stands today, its actually imbalanced and favoring large groups. Large groups get more AP, passive defenses and ultimately the ball group style doesnt help with performance - it hurts it. Making the game equal and discouraging ball groups would 1) help performance and 2) make things fair. Personally, itd make PvP a lot more interesting too - but thats just a bonus on trying to make the game playable again.

Hey man, I get it, and I'm with you on most points. But there is no denying the podcast is all pure pvpers. I enjoyed watching your stream the other week when you had the day off and grinded all day on Maelstrom Arena(another bow please), but you were heading right back to pvp once you got the weapons you wanted. You said it yourself, You focus on pvp, and the opinions of the podcast originate from a pvp perspective.

PvP != PVE.

Trash mobs aren't really considered an AOE burden, so if you're hitting 6 out of 20..you move 1 inch and you hit another 6. Again, the AOE cap is really a issue in pvp.

I'm sure you have seen Deltia stream before, when he runs the training sessions on how to maximize dps on bosses, right rotations, boss phases, skill optimization for pve.....all PVE....it's a whole different perspective on what other parts of the game are working and what isn't.

Again...as far as performance on PC, I can assure you ZOS has the answer, they did it for console, Cyrodiil is completely playable at all times no matter the number of people on console. ZOS knows what they need to do, but the end result would kill the visuals you have on PC. Texture maps, draw distance, models....all of it would need to go down several notches. Then they would reduce the particle effects and finally the chatter between the client and server for positional reference. In the end, not sure the PC player would like the downgrade.

You are never going to stop how people want to group up in Cyrodiil. Zerg, ball group, our small groups. Players will continue to play the way they play, regardless of the changes ZOS makes. Players will adapt and still Zerg and ball.

I'm tired of pushing the topic, but queued battlegrounds like any other true pvp game has, is the answer. It satisfies small scale, organized pvp, and it forces fixing skills to be more balanced and effective. WoW nailed it with MMO BGs, the model is out there, ZOS just has to make the rewards for Cyrodiil attractive enough so that if they do introduce BGs that Cyrodiil won't be a ghost town like IC already is.

Again, I think you guys are doing a great job in presenting a hardcore players perspective on the state of the game. I'm just pointing out the perspective is slanted and coming from a PVP mentality. I know SypherPK has tried to include PVE players in the discussion, you had the one guy on mic only the one week....but he never came back.

Anyways, you take the time to stream and podcast, it brings players to the game, ZOS knows this and in the end they should listen to what you have to say regardless.

uberkull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

As I enjoy the podcasts, these are all very talented, small scale PvPers, Sypher and Fengrush builds are nice....for pvp. But they hardly represent the entire community across PC and console. If you really want to get a PVE presence, bring Deltia into the mix. He can bring a lot to the table and actually discuss vet dungeon PVE and class skills for PVE.

As it stands, these guys have biased opinions based on their ability or inability to perform in PvP. AOE cap, Zerg, ball, broken skills for pvp, etc etc. The problem with this bias is that the classes can't be fixed or balanced for just pvp or pve, they are balanced for both. If abilities are nerfed, they get nerfed regardless of the enemy, player or mob. This has to be considered before ZOS acts and changes something.

Remove AOE cap? How about just create battlegrounds that only have 12 players total? Objective based pvp. AOE cap doesn't impact pve, so it won't be removed. It will just be modified. The core problem is that these pvpers are trying to take out large groups in Cyrodiil solo or in groups of 4, they get zerged and get rolled. Their AOE only affects 6 people in the Zerg. Well, in the end....you really shouldn't expect 4 players to take out a group of 24.

Stop Zergs? Well....Cyrodiil is designed for large group pvp, it is siege warfare, not a battleground. Numbers will always crush small groups. Zergs cause performance problems? Maybe you should try console, 50v50...no problem on console. The game can handle it, PC ESO just isn't optimized like console was. Console removed a lot of the flare and draw distance, console renders players only when they get closer...otherwise they are black silhouettes. Graphics aren't as sharp and detailed on console, but...hey...Gameplay over eye candy. It's a good balance on console.

With all that said, if we DON'T have Twitch streamers like this going above and beyond making these Podcasts, this game won't be saved. MMOs require active communities with active players, not casuals. ZOS needs to listen and act quickly or they will lose their core commnutiy that was here from day one. MMOs need their core communities to survive and evolve, bringing new players to the game. How the hell would I know? I was a day one player in WoW, 2004. I played for 10 years straight through all the xpacs and witnessed the cycles of players that stayed, that left, that raged for changes. This is nothing new, the difference is that Blizzard listened and acted quickly, evolving to match their player's needs.

ZOS devs and designers finally posting on the forum is encouraging. Hopefully we will see results.

It was stressed a lot on there that we dont want to remove large groups from Cyro - that is how its designed, how its always been, and I actually enjoy fighting on a large battlefield. The difference between a lot of numbers and ball groups is what the meta has become though. You have to acknowledge and understand that difference to understand any of the points being made there.

Theres nothing wrong with removing AOE caps. As far as PVE perspective goes (it does effect it, you mistated that) - I think we can shed plenty of light on it. The greatest impact youre talking about here is trials where AOE is used against trash mobs. Solution is to amp trash mobs defenses or increase mobs resistance against AOE abilities. Its not rocket science to tackle these issues.

AOE caps, broken skills, ball groups - these issues effect everyone. To say were biased in a negative way would be misguided. As I said on the podcast, Id hope the game would be moved back towards equality in terms of balance. As it stands today, its actually imbalanced and favoring large groups. Large groups get more AP, passive defenses and ultimately the ball group style doesnt help with performance - it hurts it. Making the game equal and discouraging ball groups would 1) help performance and 2) make things fair. Personally, itd make PvP a lot more interesting too - but thats just a bonus on trying to make the game playable again.

Hey man, I get it, and I'm with you on most points. But there is no denying the podcast is all pure pvpers. I enjoyed watching your stream the other week when you had the day off and grinded all day on Maelstrom Arena(another bow please), but you were heading right back to pvp once you got the weapons you wanted. You said it yourself, You focus on pvp, and the opinions of the podcast originate from a pvp perspective.

PvP != PVE.

Trash mobs aren't really considered an AOE burden, so if you're hitting 6 out of 20..you move 1 inch and you hit another 6. Again, the AOE cap is really a issue in pvp.

I'm sure you have seen Deltia stream before, when he runs the training sessions on how to maximize dps on bosses, right rotations, boss phases, skill optimization for pve.....all PVE....it's a whole different perspective on what other parts of the game are working and what isn't.

Again...as far as performance on PC, I can assure you ZOS has the answer, they did it for console, Cyrodiil is completely playable at all times no matter the number of people on console. ZOS knows what they need to do, but the end result would kill the visuals you have on PC. Texture maps, draw distance, models....all of it would need to go down several notches. Then they would reduce the particle effects and finally the chatter between the client and server for positional reference. In the end, not sure the PC player would like the downgrade.

You are never going to stop how people want to group up in Cyrodiil. Zerg, ball group, our small groups. Players will continue to play the way they play, regardless of the changes ZOS makes. Players will adapt and still Zerg and ball.

I'm tired of pushing the topic, but queued battlegrounds like any other true pvp game has, is the answer. It satisfies small scale, organized pvp, and it forces fixing skills to be more balanced and effective. WoW nailed it with MMO BGs, the model is out there, ZOS just has to make the rewards for Cyrodiil attractive enough so that if they do introduce BGs that Cyrodiil won't be a ghost town like IC already is.

Again, I think you guys are doing a great job in presenting a hardcore players perspective on the state of the game. I'm just pointing out the perspective is slanted and coming from a PVP mentality. I know SypherPK has tried to include PVE players in the discussion, you had the one guy on mic only the one week....but he never came back.

Anyways, you take the time to stream and podcast, it brings players to the game, ZOS knows this and in the end they should listen to what you have to say regardless.

Ummm...How about no...WoW most certainly did not nail it with MMO Bgs

In fact out of all the games released to date...WoW managed to do it the worst..

There has only been two games to date that have managed to make BGs somewhat decent in comparison to mass scale pvp

Warhammer Online and SWTOR (Huttball)

So building a game around that because you think AOE caps shouldn't be removed for some odd reason blows my mind..Since you can look at the game this was trying to copy (DAOC) and see it works just fine and can support all modes of PVP just fine.

I can give a *** if they remove AOE caps or not. That's not the root of the problem.

And if you're gonna argue against the most successful MMO of all time, I'm not gonna fight that battle. Warhammer came and went during WOW and SWTOR is now a free to play sandbox. Yet WoW can still justify a monthly sub to play and pull in over 5 million subscribers in this era of free to play MMOs with micro transactions.

And somehow Arenas in WoW (which orignated from the pvp balancing and fine tuning of WoW BGs) is a eSport for the past 5 years.

Yea....WoW got it wrong.

MountainHound wrote: »

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

MountainHound wrote: »

I want whatever @FENGRUSH wants.

Lord Fengrush wants you to stop zerging.

Only if Lord @FENGRUSH directly PMs me. Then once I been braced by his awesomeness may it happen.

Part of the terms is me running with Lord @Fengrush so I don't need a zerg as I have him to protect me, I shall purge him all he wants and spam it.

uberkull wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

uberkull wrote: »

As I enjoy the podcasts, these are all very talented, small scale PvPers, Sypher and Fengrush builds are nice....for pvp. But they hardly represent the entire community across PC and console. If you really want to get a PVE presence, bring Deltia into the mix. He can bring a lot to the table and actually discuss vet dungeon PVE and class skills for PVE.

As it stands, these guys have biased opinions based on their ability or inability to perform in PvP. AOE cap, Zerg, ball, broken skills for pvp, etc etc. The problem with this bias is that the classes can't be fixed or balanced for just pvp or pve, they are balanced for both. If abilities are nerfed, they get nerfed regardless of the enemy, player or mob. This has to be considered before ZOS acts and changes something.

Remove AOE cap? How about just create battlegrounds that only have 12 players total? Objective based pvp. AOE cap doesn't impact pve, so it won't be removed. It will just be modified. The core problem is that these pvpers are trying to take out large groups in Cyrodiil solo or in groups of 4, they get zerged and get rolled. Their AOE only affects 6 people in the Zerg. Well, in the end....you really shouldn't expect 4 players to take out a group of 24.

Stop Zergs? Well....Cyrodiil is designed for large group pvp, it is siege warfare, not a battleground. Numbers will always crush small groups. Zergs cause performance problems? Maybe you should try console, 50v50...no problem on console. The game can handle it, PC ESO just isn't optimized like console was. Console removed a lot of the flare and draw distance, console renders players only when they get closer...otherwise they are black silhouettes. Graphics aren't as sharp and detailed on console, but...hey...Gameplay over eye candy. It's a good balance on console.

With all that said, if we DON'T have Twitch streamers like this going above and beyond making these Podcasts, this game won't be saved. MMOs require active communities with active players, not casuals. ZOS needs to listen and act quickly or they will lose their core commnutiy that was here from day one. MMOs need their core communities to survive and evolve, bringing new players to the game. How the hell would I know? I was a day one player in WoW, 2004. I played for 10 years straight through all the xpacs and witnessed the cycles of players that stayed, that left, that raged for changes. This is nothing new, the difference is that Blizzard listened and acted quickly, evolving to match their player's needs.

ZOS devs and designers finally posting on the forum is encouraging. Hopefully we will see results.

It was stressed a lot on there that we dont want to remove large groups from Cyro - that is how its designed, how its always been, and I actually enjoy fighting on a large battlefield. The difference between a lot of numbers and ball groups is what the meta has become though. You have to acknowledge and understand that difference to understand any of the points being made there.

Theres nothing wrong with removing AOE caps. As far as PVE perspective goes (it does effect it, you mistated that) - I think we can shed plenty of light on it. The greatest impact youre talking about here is trials where AOE is used against trash mobs. Solution is to amp trash mobs defenses or increase mobs resistance against AOE abilities. Its not rocket science to tackle these issues.

AOE caps, broken skills, ball groups - these issues effect everyone. To say were biased in a negative way would be misguided. As I said on the podcast, Id hope the game would be moved back towards equality in terms of balance. As it stands today, its actually imbalanced and favoring large groups. Large groups get more AP, passive defenses and ultimately the ball group style doesnt help with performance - it hurts it. Making the game equal and discouraging ball groups would 1) help performance and 2) make things fair. Personally, itd make PvP a lot more interesting too - but thats just a bonus on trying to make the game playable again.

Hey man, I get it, and I'm with you on most points. But there is no denying the podcast is all pure pvpers. I enjoyed watching your stream the other week when you had the day off and grinded all day on Maelstrom Arena(another bow please), but you were heading right back to pvp once you got the weapons you wanted. You said it yourself, You focus on pvp, and the opinions of the podcast originate from a pvp perspective.

PvP != PVE.

Trash mobs aren't really considered an AOE burden, so if you're hitting 6 out of 20..you move 1 inch and you hit another 6. Again, the AOE cap is really a issue in pvp.

I'm sure you have seen Deltia stream before, when he runs the training sessions on how to maximize dps on bosses, right rotations, boss phases, skill optimization for pve.....all PVE....it's a whole different perspective on what other parts of the game are working and what isn't.

Again...as far as performance on PC, I can assure you ZOS has the answer, they did it for console, Cyrodiil is completely playable at all times no matter the number of people on console. ZOS knows what they need to do, but the end result would kill the visuals you have on PC. Texture maps, draw distance, models....all of it would need to go down several notches. Then they would reduce the particle effects and finally the chatter between the client and server for positional reference. In the end, not sure the PC player would like the downgrade.

You are never going to stop how people want to group up in Cyrodiil. Zerg, ball group, our small groups. Players will continue to play the way they play, regardless of the changes ZOS makes. Players will adapt and still Zerg and ball.

I'm tired of pushing the topic, but queued battlegrounds like any other true pvp game has, is the answer. It satisfies small scale, organized pvp, and it forces fixing skills to be more balanced and effective. WoW nailed it with MMO BGs, the model is out there, ZOS just has to make the rewards for Cyrodiil attractive enough so that if they do introduce BGs that Cyrodiil won't be a ghost town like IC already is.

Again, I think you guys are doing a great job in presenting a hardcore players perspective on the state of the game. I'm just pointing out the perspective is slanted and coming from a PVP mentality. I know SypherPK has tried to include PVE players in the discussion, you had the one guy on mic only the one week....but he never came back.

Anyways, you take the time to stream and podcast, it brings players to the game, ZOS knows this and in the end they should listen to what you have to say regardless.

Ummm...How about no...WoW most certainly did not nail it with MMO Bgs

In fact out of all the games released to date...WoW managed to do it the worst..

There has only been two games to date that have managed to make BGs somewhat decent in comparison to mass scale pvp

Warhammer Online and SWTOR (Huttball)

So building a game around that because you think AOE caps shouldn't be removed for some odd reason blows my mind..Since you can look at the game this was trying to copy (DAOC) and see it works just fine and can support all modes of PVP just fine.

I can give a *** if they remove AOE caps or not. That's not the root of the problem.

And if you're gonna argue against the most successful MMO of all time, I'm not gonna fight that battle. Warhammer came and went during WOW and SWTOR is now a free to play sandbox. Yet WoW can still justify a monthly sub to play and pull in over 5 million subscribers in this era of free to play MMOs with micro transactions.

And somehow Arenas in WoW (which orignated from the pvp balancing and fine tuning of WoW BGs) is a eSport for the past 5 years.

Yea....WoW got it wrong.

Nobody denies wow was successful. Still that is mainly due to pve and not the pvp part of the game. They certainly did not nail it with arenas/battlegrounds.
It´s solely an "esport" because wow has the playerbase to draw from in the first place (right time of release being the factor before all other here) and the money to keep people attracted / coming back over several years.

You can´t measure the quality of pvp by a games overall success (because mainly due to wow pvp became niche gameplay in mmos). If EA would not have been to greedy to continue paying the warhammer license i´d play warhammer bgs over wow any day of the week.

In terms of BGs Huttball in swtor was easily the best designed map to date in any game i´ve played (pretty much all western mmos since the release of daoc in 2002).

Also calling swtor a sandbox - do you know what that word means?

So because WoW has held a player base for 11 years, it's only because of its PVE....yea, ok.

SWTOR is becoming so unstructured and open, that I believe is where the sandbox term applies. Yea, sure there is still progression, but I can bypass a lot of it now. They are just trying to hold players. And you think EA is going to keep this MMO alive for much longer? I bet that license isn't cheap either.

I've made my point and don't want to derail the thread.

I will continue to say that what Sypher and the team is doing is very beneficial to the community and appreciated. It just needs a solid PVE perspective each week.