PvP Podcast (Episode 7 Uploaded)

revonine · November 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Since when does ambush not pull you out of cloak? :S

In PvP Ambush immobilizes for 1 second. For whatever reason an immobilize effect doesn't pull you out of cloak. So that's potentially an Ambush and a Surprise Attack on your opponent both taking advantage of The Master Assassin passive. That's how I understand it at least.
Doesn't work all the time though apparently.

CP5 · November 2015

Just got around to watching episode 3, here are random notes from it, its a longer post than I thought but if you want to read it have fun.

A note on reflective scales. That is one of the few skill nerfs I agree with in this game. There is no counter but wait, the nerf added the option to shoot yourself in the face four times per cast. It negates all of the damage of those reflected skills and deals 100-135% of that damage. How would you expect, say, an archer to deal with infinite reflects again? Rebuild for melee? It sounds like there is a hint of wanting the old dk's back when talking about un-nerfing the skill "Dk class isn't the same anymore." If scales was un-nerfed wouldn't the abundance of unreflected skills still make that point moot?

In regards to blinds they won't add those back for the same reason they removed them. It wasn't the major minor buff system, it was in pve making so many mobs immune made the skills so awkward to balance. 40% dodge chance is in effect 40% damage reduction. From listening to this there is a hint in the background that dk balance seems to be based around making them what they were before all the nerfs.

Also one thing to think on about the talk of sorc burst (curse, frags, detonation), one timed dodge roll will force most of those to miss, several surprise attacks together in a row and some will miss and others won't it's putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing.

Something else is from testing a surprise attack from cloak will stun a target that has radiant magelight on.

And for the record i've gotten a full set of briarheart items from chest, v15 and 16, all just luck.

A few things from later in the episode you talked about shield stacking and sorcs. 1.) do you think zos can make changes with things like shield breaker still sitting around. 2.) The sorc has some major skills like overload light attacks (only one example) but as a stam bow sorc how does sorc's have everything"? I'm getting irritated at this point with how much is getting thrown at the class as a whole not the particular builds. Outside of the fotm builds what else is there? Looking forward to your talk on sorc's and templars now.

In regards to zergs in pvp, I don't think it is 'you need to be able to have small groups kill large groups' more that it should be detrimental to send all of your group in one faction. Objectives need to be given that smaller groups can do and make fights all over the map, not just where the zergs are bashing heads. Still think aoe's need to be better vs zergs (the aoe caps being inverted was a nice idea I recall) but small groups beating big groups could just make the big groups get bigger.

And @s7732425ub17_ESO, as someone who chose the class in part for surge it is not reliable as decent as it can be.

As a side not to @ZOS, for the sake of the game stop being so silent. A stray 'class buffs are coming soon*' on some stream is nothing. You say you aim for smaller more progressive balance passes but pushing them to once every 6 months isn't that and all the changes you make will make people relearn the game with how many would need to come to justify the delay. More changes more frequently with community interaction, show us directly you listen. Talk to us.

Stikato · November 2015

Just some constructive feedback.

All of you guys (and gal) doing the podcast are great players, and great ambassadors of the game. This is really cool that you spend time doing this.

That being said, while I appreciate you wish to bring so many issues to light (and I agree with 99% of your positions), the more subjects you talk about, the more chances you give for people to dismiss you because they may disagree with one single point.

This game has some readily identifiable issues, that were well touched on in the first discussion. But rather than build on that, you are now on to class balance which will simply spawn flame wars on the forums.

I would suggest refocusing on the core aspects of the game the 90-99% of the players are agreed upon. Lag, loading screens, RNG garbage, lack of small group pvp mechanics and goals, etc.

LegendaryChef · November 2015

On the note that standards we never useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

I watched a fair bit of the podcast but unfortunately don't have the 3 hours to spare, my only other addition would be to maybe get a player from the EU server to join in with you guys next time? I'm not personally volunteering as i haven't played as long as half of the people here but maybe it could help to add some opinions from our side to the show

*cough* @Etaniel *cough*

Xsorus · November 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Regarding the discussion on Sorc shield refresh. Sorcs can do nothing but spam Hardened Ward and mitigate 10k DPS while doing zero DPS in return.

Vigor - 12k heals. Rally - 9-15k Heals. These are HP heals that receive the full bonus from medium/heavy armor resistances. Stamina builds with Vigor and Rally have almost the same effective DPS mitigation. Every class when properly played is hard to kill in 1.7/1.8. If you rework Hardened Ward, you must also rework light armor and/or give magicka sorc something similar to the Rally/Vigor combo.

Both rally and Vigor can be absolutely gutted by Heal Debuffs, Unless you want to talk about making Heal Debuffs cut Shields in half when ya cast them I don't think you should compare the two.

Healdebuffs take away the 30% (and 8%) they´ve stated in their tooltip now as them being additive to the battlespirit debuff has been ninjafixed with some incremental patch after IC release. Nothings cut in half or gutted anymore - there´s hardly a point in using one if not for additional effects (as any class relying on heals can easily purge the healdebuff).

As on shields: I agree they need serious looking at (specifically stacking them) - however the solution stated on the stream was garbage imho bc of reasons i´ve layed out on page 25 of this topic.

Edit: Imho the best solution still would be to entirely rework harness magica and for healing ward make the inital heal scale (for the other morph only the shield casted on an ally) instead of the shield.

As someone who uses Heal Debuffs extensively, I can tell you right now a 30% heal debuff (Plus apparently an extra 15% from disease status effects, though that's hard to actually test) is nothing to sneeze at...There is a reason you see virtually every melee stamina build running Reverb Bash right now...and its not because of its CC. Healing debuffs absolutely gut Rally and Vigor right now...

Also saying you can purge it also a little generous, since basically only Efficient Purge and Templar one will really get rid of it, EP is incredibly expensive for a stamina build, and i'm honestly not certain about the Templar one.

The reason people run reverb bash is to spam it without remorse because it´s cc component bugs you out more often than not (i can tell you because people spam it on shields too for said effect - apart from there is no reason to spam it at all other than the questionable cc mechanic).

Since the changes to status effects (showing how often the disease healdebuff actually proccs) i don´t even use them anymore as the chance it too low and random to actually benefit from it.

Would i use a healdebuff if i could access one - most likely. Are they as powerful as you´re making them out to be? Well i summon @Yuke to tell you why he´s not even considering reverb bash in his build and does not take too much issues in healdebuffs even though he´s not running 2h on his dk.
Or in short: No.

What? No, they run it because heal debuff, and you use it on people with shields because they're 99% of the time going to be using Healing Ward to heal themselves which is effected by the Heal Debuff.

Also why would you not use Disease anymore for healing debuffs? They bloody increased the primary means of getting it by a metric ton, Disease Weapon Procs now have a 20% chance to proc their status effect, which is a 7.5 second Heal Debuff. There is absolutely every reason to use it.

If you're not using 1hd Shield / 2hander on a DK, you're using 2hander/Bow.. and if you're using 1hd/shield you're going to use heal debuff like reverb bash most of the time.

IIRC it can only proc on enchant procs, which means its a 20% chance on a 5 second cooldown IF you're weaving light attacks religiously. Id be willing to bet testing would show a very low uptime on this particular debuff.

Technically any disease effect can proc it, but with the way they changed the system any disease effect that's not a weapon enchant would be so low it'd be pointless, also I told sypher and a few others about this, if you are running disease on your weapon one of the best traits you can have right now is powered as it drops that proc rate to 2.5 seconds, and with a 20% chance to go off its a good way to maintain that disease proc.

Xsorus · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Regarding the discussion on Sorc shield refresh. Sorcs can do nothing but spam Hardened Ward and mitigate 10k DPS while doing zero DPS in return.

Vigor - 12k heals. Rally - 9-15k Heals. These are HP heals that receive the full bonus from medium/heavy armor resistances. Stamina builds with Vigor and Rally have almost the same effective DPS mitigation. Every class when properly played is hard to kill in 1.7/1.8. If you rework Hardened Ward, you must also rework light armor and/or give magicka sorc something similar to the Rally/Vigor combo.

Both rally and Vigor can be absolutely gutted by Heal Debuffs, Unless you want to talk about making Heal Debuffs cut Shields in half when ya cast them I don't think you should compare the two.

Healdebuffs take away the 30% (and 8%) they´ve stated in their tooltip now as them being additive to the battlespirit debuff has been ninjafixed with some incremental patch after IC release. Nothings cut in half or gutted anymore - there´s hardly a point in using one if not for additional effects (as any class relying on heals can easily purge the healdebuff).

As on shields: I agree they need serious looking at (specifically stacking them) - however the solution stated on the stream was garbage imho bc of reasons i´ve layed out on page 25 of this topic.

Edit: Imho the best solution still would be to entirely rework harness magica and for healing ward make the inital heal scale (for the other morph only the shield casted on an ally) instead of the shield.

As someone who uses Heal Debuffs extensively, I can tell you right now a 30% heal debuff (Plus apparently an extra 15% from disease status effects, though that's hard to actually test) is nothing to sneeze at...There is a reason you see virtually every melee stamina build running Reverb Bash right now...and its not because of its CC. Healing debuffs absolutely gut Rally and Vigor right now...

Also saying you can purge it also a little generous, since basically only Efficient Purge and Templar one will really get rid of it, EP is incredibly expensive for a stamina build, and i'm honestly not certain about the Templar one.

The reason people run reverb bash is to spam it without remorse because it´s cc component bugs you out more often than not (i can tell you because people spam it on shields too for said effect - apart from there is no reason to spam it at all other than the questionable cc mechanic).

Since the changes to status effects (showing how often the disease healdebuff actually proccs) i don´t even use them anymore as the chance it too low and random to actually benefit from it.

Would i use a healdebuff if i could access one - most likely. Are they as powerful as you´re making them out to be? Well i summon @Yuke to tell you why he´s not even considering reverb bash in his build and does not take too much issues in healdebuffs even though he´s not running 2h on his dk.
Or in short: No.

What? No, they run it because heal debuff, and you use it on people with shields because they're 99% of the time going to be using Healing Ward to heal themselves which is effected by the Heal Debuff.

Also why would you not use Disease anymore for healing debuffs? They bloody increased the primary means of getting it by a metric ton, Disease Weapon Procs now have a 20% chance to proc their status effect, which is a 7.5 second Heal Debuff. There is absolutely every reason to use it.

If you're not using 1hd Shield / 2hander on a DK, you're using 2hander/Bow.. and if you're using 1hd/shield you're going to use heal debuff like reverb bash most of the time.

1h shield without reverb bash and DW. No healing debuff.

Healing debuffs do not affect the shield strengh of healing ward - there´s absolutely no reason to spam people with reverb bash (which is happening in pvp by most ppl using it) apart from bugging ppl to the ground where they can slide around a bit - which is why 90% of the players using it spam that skill.
I agree some people might use it for the actual healdebuff utility. The majority tries to bug you because they have no greater plan when playing apart from smashing a few buttons.

20% chance for for minor defile (8% healdebuff afaik) is questionable at best. I´d go with extra desintegration procc chance and concussion any day of the week.

Healing debuffs will absolutely effect healing ward, I don't know why you'd think otherwise

Xsorus · November 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Oh great and omniscient drink guzzling, overload spamming, ball of light using dork lord - I am truly sorry for dismissing your internet knight nerd idol. Not really, that dude was terrible. I played in 1.4 and I used, wait for it, all three of my bars. Gap close talons talons talons gap close talons talons talons standard. So good. So nostalgic. Really bro? Come back down to earth.

No one really cares what your opinion is.

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Regarding the discussion on Sorc shield refresh. Sorcs can do nothing but spam Hardened Ward and mitigate 10k DPS while doing zero DPS in return.

Vigor - 12k heals. Rally - 9-15k Heals. These are HP heals that receive the full bonus from medium/heavy armor resistances. Stamina builds with Vigor and Rally have almost the same effective DPS mitigation. Every class when properly played is hard to kill in 1.7/1.8. If you rework Hardened Ward, you must also rework light armor and/or give magicka sorc something similar to the Rally/Vigor combo.

Both rally and Vigor can be absolutely gutted by Heal Debuffs, Unless you want to talk about making Heal Debuffs cut Shields in half when ya cast them I don't think you should compare the two.

Healdebuffs take away the 30% (and 8%) they´ve stated in their tooltip now as them being additive to the battlespirit debuff has been ninjafixed with some incremental patch after IC release. Nothings cut in half or gutted anymore - there´s hardly a point in using one if not for additional effects (as any class relying on heals can easily purge the healdebuff).

As on shields: I agree they need serious looking at (specifically stacking them) - however the solution stated on the stream was garbage imho bc of reasons i´ve layed out on page 25 of this topic.

Edit: Imho the best solution still would be to entirely rework harness magica and for healing ward make the inital heal scale (for the other morph only the shield casted on an ally) instead of the shield.

As someone who uses Heal Debuffs extensively, I can tell you right now a 30% heal debuff (Plus apparently an extra 15% from disease status effects, though that's hard to actually test) is nothing to sneeze at...There is a reason you see virtually every melee stamina build running Reverb Bash right now...and its not because of its CC. Healing debuffs absolutely gut Rally and Vigor right now...

Also saying you can purge it also a little generous, since basically only Efficient Purge and Templar one will really get rid of it, EP is incredibly expensive for a stamina build, and i'm honestly not certain about the Templar one.

That's wrong.

I recently tested this extensively against another Sorc on my Nightblade. Disease Enchant doesn't stack with Reverberating bash. Both only reduced healing by 30%. Disease enchant applies Major defile just as Reverberating Bash or Soul Harvest does. The only way to increase this further is to put points into the CP passive which with 100 points invested can increase your 30% to 40%. No one at this point is going to bother stacking their defile that high.

Healing debuffs are great but it isn't a magic bullet against a good stamina player like you're implying with the comparison against shields.

See that's what I thought also, but recently someone said they were applying minor defile with their status effect, if you're right about that there is no reason even to have reverb on the bar.

Soulac · November 2015

revonine wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Since when does ambush not pull you out of cloak? :S

In PvP Ambush immobilizes for 1 second. For whatever reason an immobilize effect doesn't pull you out of cloak. So that's potentially an Ambush and a Surprise Attack on your opponent both taking advantage of The Master Assassin passive. That's how I understand it at least.
Doesn't work all the time though apparently.

It still does damage, otherwise other gap closer wouldn't pull you out either.
Ambush and Lotus Fan don't break cloak cause it's a synergy with surprise attack and concealed weapon.
I mean you can cloak, ambush and repeat without popping out, but Stamina nightblades are certainly not able to do that and Ambush doesn't hit hard, so it won't kill you.
By removing this you destroy one of the only skill synergies of the nightblade.

zZzleepyhead · November 2015

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

I think an easy fix the would work well with removing aoe caps is to give aoe damage and healing skills the same treatment as dodge roll and streak; increasing the cost the more you cast it.

This should NOT happen to anything else, PLEASE. I agree streak and dodge roll were very strong abilities and they both used very frequently in their meta-primes. Nowadays we have wrecking blow and cloak and I've seen this suggestion offered as a fix for both of them! ZOS stated in the past that their preferable approach to balancing the game was to make more skills viable. For the future state of the game, this "easy" solution is a terrible idea and other easy fixes have proven so as well in my opinion. ¢¢

Poxheart · November 2015

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

craigvigneaultub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Just remember what happened to DK when people asked for nerfs...Also the toolip of ambush/lotus fan says "flash through the shadows" not "flash out of the shadows" so maybe it's intended. I don't think it's really a big deal, the main issue is all gap closers in general need tweaking, and ambush needs a minimum distance like others. Also toppling charge is undodgeable, that should be fixed.

My god, this. just look at how much the DKs cry on these forums. nobody at any point in this games history has complained as much about their class as DKs do now. We don't need another repeat of that with nightblades or sorcs.

Sorry, but nightblades are the #1 whingers NA and EU. They spent the first year+ whinging on the forums about thier class (and about DKs).

krim · November 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

craigvigneaultub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Just remember what happened to DK when people asked for nerfs...Also the toolip of ambush/lotus fan says "flash through the shadows" not "flash out of the shadows" so maybe it's intended. I don't think it's really a big deal, the main issue is all gap closers in general need tweaking, and ambush needs a minimum distance like others. Also toppling charge is undodgeable, that should be fixed.

My god, this. just look at how much the DKs cry on these forums. nobody at any point in this games history has complained as much about their class as DKs do now. We don't need another repeat of that with nightblades or sorcs.

Sorry, but nightblades are the #1 whingers NA and EU. They spent the first year+ whinging on the forums about thier class (and about DKs).

It was so weird playing through that time as a NB and not feeling under powered at all ever.

Jitterbug · November 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

the Templar one.

Nafirian · November 2015

LegendaryChef wrote: »

On the note that standards we never useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XastWEM6pq0

I watched a fair bit of the podcast but unfortunately don't have the 3 hours to spare, my only other addition would be to maybe get a player from the EU server to join in with you guys next time? I'm not personally volunteering as i haven't played as long as half of the people here but maybe it could help to add some opinions from our side to the show *cough* @Etaniel *cough*

Goddammit Zzorr now i need to watch it again ;_; Oh and #EtanielForPresident.

Yuke · November 2015

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Regarding the discussion on Sorc shield refresh. Sorcs can do nothing but spam Hardened Ward and mitigate 10k DPS while doing zero DPS in return.

Vigor - 12k heals. Rally - 9-15k Heals. These are HP heals that receive the full bonus from medium/heavy armor resistances. Stamina builds with Vigor and Rally have almost the same effective DPS mitigation. Every class when properly played is hard to kill in 1.7/1.8. If you rework Hardened Ward, you must also rework light armor and/or give magicka sorc something similar to the Rally/Vigor combo.

Both rally and Vigor can be absolutely gutted by Heal Debuffs, Unless you want to talk about making Heal Debuffs cut Shields in half when ya cast them I don't think you should compare the two.

Healdebuffs take away the 30% (and 8%) they´ve stated in their tooltip now as them being additive to the battlespirit debuff has been ninjafixed with some incremental patch after IC release. Nothings cut in half or gutted anymore - there´s hardly a point in using one if not for additional effects (as any class relying on heals can easily purge the healdebuff).

As on shields: I agree they need serious looking at (specifically stacking them) - however the solution stated on the stream was garbage imho bc of reasons i´ve layed out on page 25 of this topic.

Edit: Imho the best solution still would be to entirely rework harness magica and for healing ward make the inital heal scale (for the other morph only the shield casted on an ally) instead of the shield.

As someone who uses Heal Debuffs extensively, I can tell you right now a 30% heal debuff (Plus apparently an extra 15% from disease status effects, though that's hard to actually test) is nothing to sneeze at...There is a reason you see virtually every melee stamina build running Reverb Bash right now...and its not because of its CC. Healing debuffs absolutely gut Rally and Vigor right now...

Also saying you can purge it also a little generous, since basically only Efficient Purge and Templar one will really get rid of it, EP is incredibly expensive for a stamina build, and i'm honestly not certain about the Templar one.

The reason people run reverb bash is to spam it without remorse because it´s cc component bugs you out more often than not (i can tell you because people spam it on shields too for said effect - apart from there is no reason to spam it at all other than the questionable cc mechanic).

Since the changes to status effects (showing how often the disease healdebuff actually proccs) i don´t even use them anymore as the chance it too low and random to actually benefit from it.

Would i use a healdebuff if i could access one - most likely. Are they as powerful as you´re making them out to be? Well i summon @Yuke to tell you why he´s not even considering reverb bash in his build and does not take too much issues in healdebuffs even though he´s not running 2h on his dk.
Or in short: No.

Better late than never.

After they finally fixed the healdebuff calculation with the last patch (second to last for you guys on the US server), its just not worth it. My Vigor heals me for 1700 hp critical with major + minor defile on me, instead of 2300.

When the calculation was still additive instead of multiplicative towards the cyrodiil heal debuff, heal debuffs were ridiculously strong tho.

Xsorus · November 2015

Yuke wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Regarding the discussion on Sorc shield refresh. Sorcs can do nothing but spam Hardened Ward and mitigate 10k DPS while doing zero DPS in return.

Vigor - 12k heals. Rally - 9-15k Heals. These are HP heals that receive the full bonus from medium/heavy armor resistances. Stamina builds with Vigor and Rally have almost the same effective DPS mitigation. Every class when properly played is hard to kill in 1.7/1.8. If you rework Hardened Ward, you must also rework light armor and/or give magicka sorc something similar to the Rally/Vigor combo.

Both rally and Vigor can be absolutely gutted by Heal Debuffs, Unless you want to talk about making Heal Debuffs cut Shields in half when ya cast them I don't think you should compare the two.

Healdebuffs take away the 30% (and 8%) they´ve stated in their tooltip now as them being additive to the battlespirit debuff has been ninjafixed with some incremental patch after IC release. Nothings cut in half or gutted anymore - there´s hardly a point in using one if not for additional effects (as any class relying on heals can easily purge the healdebuff).

As on shields: I agree they need serious looking at (specifically stacking them) - however the solution stated on the stream was garbage imho bc of reasons i´ve layed out on page 25 of this topic.

Edit: Imho the best solution still would be to entirely rework harness magica and for healing ward make the inital heal scale (for the other morph only the shield casted on an ally) instead of the shield.

As someone who uses Heal Debuffs extensively, I can tell you right now a 30% heal debuff (Plus apparently an extra 15% from disease status effects, though that's hard to actually test) is nothing to sneeze at...There is a reason you see virtually every melee stamina build running Reverb Bash right now...and its not because of its CC. Healing debuffs absolutely gut Rally and Vigor right now...

Also saying you can purge it also a little generous, since basically only Efficient Purge and Templar one will really get rid of it, EP is incredibly expensive for a stamina build, and i'm honestly not certain about the Templar one.

The reason people run reverb bash is to spam it without remorse because it´s cc component bugs you out more often than not (i can tell you because people spam it on shields too for said effect - apart from there is no reason to spam it at all other than the questionable cc mechanic).

Since the changes to status effects (showing how often the disease healdebuff actually proccs) i don´t even use them anymore as the chance it too low and random to actually benefit from it.

Would i use a healdebuff if i could access one - most likely. Are they as powerful as you´re making them out to be? Well i summon @Yuke to tell you why he´s not even considering reverb bash in his build and does not take too much issues in healdebuffs even though he´s not running 2h on his dk.
Or in short: No.

Better late than never.

After they finally fixed the healdebuff calculation with the last patch (second to last for you guys on the US server), its just not worth it. My Vigor heals me for 1700 hp critical with major + minor defile on me, instead of 2300.

When the calculation was still additive instead of multiplicative towards the cyrodiil heal debuff, heal debuffs were ridiculously strong tho.

Knocking 600 points per tic off a hot is actually fairly worth it, however if what ezareth says is true you don't need reverb, disease proc ok weapon enchant will proc enough esp if ya run something like powered

Jura23 · November 2015

Noticed this comment on YT, putting it here so it gets noticed:

Achilles Best
Go with Kristofer ESO hes a very experienced Templar player ONLY

Jitterbug · November 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

Noticed this comment on YT, putting it here so it gets noticed:

Achilles Best
Go with Kristofer ESO hes a very experienced Templar player ONLY

Jack also plays Nightblade, but YES! Please bring @JackDaniell on the show!

Darnathian · November 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Just got around to watching episode 3, here are random notes from it, its a longer post than I thought but if you want to read it have fun.

A note on reflective scales. That is one of the few skill nerfs I agree with in this game. There is no counter but wait, the nerf added the option to shoot yourself in the face four times per cast. It negates all of the damage of those reflected skills and deals 100-135% of that damage. How would you expect, say, an archer to deal with infinite reflects again? Rebuild for melee? It sounds like there is a hint of wanting the old dk's back when talking about un-nerfing the skill "Dk class isn't the same anymore." If scales was un-nerfed wouldn't the abundance of unreflected skills still make that point moot?

In regards to blinds they won't add those back for the same reason they removed them. It wasn't the major minor buff system, it was in pve making so many mobs immune made the skills so awkward to balance. 40% dodge chance is in effect 40% damage reduction. From listening to this there is a hint in the background that dk balance seems to be based around making them what they were before all the nerfs.

Also one thing to think on about the talk of sorc burst (curse, frags, detonation), one timed dodge roll will force most of those to miss, several surprise attacks together in a row and some will miss and others won't it's putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing.

Something else is from testing a surprise attack from cloak will stun a target that has radiant magelight on.

And for the record i've gotten a full set of briarheart items from chest, v15 and 16, all just luck.

A few things from later in the episode you talked about shield stacking and sorcs. 1.) do you think zos can make changes with things like shield breaker still sitting around. 2.) The sorc has some major skills like overload light attacks (only one example) but as a stam bow sorc how does sorc's have everything"? I'm getting irritated at this point with how much is getting thrown at the class as a whole not the particular builds. Outside of the fotm builds what else is there? Looking forward to your talk on sorc's and templars now.

In regards to zergs in pvp, I don't think it is 'you need to be able to have small groups kill large groups' more that it should be detrimental to send all of your group in one faction. Objectives need to be given that smaller groups can do and make fights all over the map, not just where the zergs are bashing heads. Still think aoe's need to be better vs zergs (the aoe caps being inverted was a nice idea I recall) but small groups beating big groups could just make the big groups get bigger.

And @s7732425ub17_ESO, as someone who chose the class in part for surge it is not reliable as decent as it can be.

As a side not to @ZOS, for the sake of the game stop being so silent. A stray 'class buffs are coming soon*' on some stream is nothing. You say you aim for smaller more progressive balance passes but pushing them to once every 6 months isn't that and all the changes you make will make people relearn the game with how many would need to come to justify the delay. More changes more frequently with community interaction, show us directly you listen. Talk to us.

Nope they are to busy to talk to pvpers, wait for it, ever.

But then tonight my trade guild is talking about this developer meeting with our trade guild Saturday. LOL ZOS.

Seriously? A dev meeting for a trade guild but NOT A ENTIRE PART OF YOUR GAME. This is getting funnier and funnier.

Minno · November 2015

Jitterbug wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

Noticed this comment on YT, putting it here so it gets noticed:

Achilles Best
Go with Kristofer ESO hes a very experienced Templar player ONLY

Jack also plays Nightblade, but YES! Please bring @JackDaniell on the show!

To be honest I'd rather have @blabafat for discussion about magicka templars.

Why? Because outside the cookie cutter stam builds and dual weld magicka builds, magicka Templar is never discussed.
And if you've seen his videos, you'll see a change from the usual builds. (And also for his thread helping new templars understand what skills are for what.)

I'd also vote @Joy_Division for Templar. Based on the thread about which templar skills suck and why.

Minno · November 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just got around to watching episode 3, here are random notes from it, its a longer post than I thought but if you want to read it have fun.

A note on reflective scales. That is one of the few skill nerfs I agree with in this game. There is no counter but wait, the nerf added the option to shoot yourself in the face four times per cast. It negates all of the damage of those reflected skills and deals 100-135% of that damage. How would you expect, say, an archer to deal with infinite reflects again? Rebuild for melee? It sounds like there is a hint of wanting the old dk's back when talking about un-nerfing the skill "Dk class isn't the same anymore." If scales was un-nerfed wouldn't the abundance of unreflected skills still make that point moot?

In regards to blinds they won't add those back for the same reason they removed them. It wasn't the major minor buff system, it was in pve making so many mobs immune made the skills so awkward to balance. 40% dodge chance is in effect 40% damage reduction. From listening to this there is a hint in the background that dk balance seems to be based around making them what they were before all the nerfs.

Also one thing to think on about the talk of sorc burst (curse, frags, detonation), one timed dodge roll will force most of those to miss, several surprise attacks together in a row and some will miss and others won't it's putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing.

Something else is from testing a surprise attack from cloak will stun a target that has radiant magelight on.

And for the record i've gotten a full set of briarheart items from chest, v15 and 16, all just luck.

A few things from later in the episode you talked about shield stacking and sorcs. 1.) do you think zos can make changes with things like shield breaker still sitting around. 2.) The sorc has some major skills like overload light attacks (only one example) but as a stam bow sorc how does sorc's have everything"? I'm getting irritated at this point with how much is getting thrown at the class as a whole not the particular builds. Outside of the fotm builds what else is there? Looking forward to your talk on sorc's and templars now.

In regards to zergs in pvp, I don't think it is 'you need to be able to have small groups kill large groups' more that it should be detrimental to send all of your group in one faction. Objectives need to be given that smaller groups can do and make fights all over the map, not just where the zergs are bashing heads. Still think aoe's need to be better vs zergs (the aoe caps being inverted was a nice idea I recall) but small groups beating big groups could just make the big groups get bigger.

And @s7732425ub17_ESO, as someone who chose the class in part for surge it is not reliable as decent as it can be.

As a side not to @ZOS, for the sake of the game stop being so silent. A stray 'class buffs are coming soon*' on some stream is nothing. You say you aim for smaller more progressive balance passes but pushing them to once every 6 months isn't that and all the changes you make will make people relearn the game with how many would need to come to justify the delay. More changes more frequently with community interaction, show us directly you listen. Talk to us.

Nope they are to busy to talk to pvpers, wait for it, ever.

But then tonight my trade guild is talking about this developer meeting with our trade guild Saturday. LOL ZOS.

Seriously? A dev meeting for a trade guild but NOT A ENTIRE PART OF YOUR GAME. This is getting funnier and funnier.

Trade guilds have it worse than pvp. They have zero guild store support, lack of guild communication support, and overall they dictate the player based sales.

While we do need more 1on1 talks with devs, to say trade guilds don't need it is downright evil.
Some of those gms dedicate time to running that guild over playing the actual game.
Think about that next time you try to sell some items by using that store.

Rust_in_Peace · November 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

craigvigneaultub17_ESO wrote: »

Edit: Just remember what happened to DK when people asked for nerfs...Also the toolip of ambush/lotus fan says "flash through the shadows" not "flash out of the shadows" so maybe it's intended. I don't think it's really a big deal, the main issue is all gap closers in general need tweaking, and ambush needs a minimum distance like others. Also toppling charge is undodgeable, that should be fixed.

My god, this. just look at how much the DKs cry on these forums. nobody at any point in this games history has complained as much about their class as DKs do now. We don't need another repeat of that with nightblades or sorcs.

Sorry, but nightblades are the #1 whingers NA and EU. They spent the first year+ whinging on the forums about thier class (and about DKs).

EVERYONE complained about DKs. NB's only wanted their broken skills fixed, like cloak; which you basically just rolled the dice every time you cast it back then.

Darnathian · November 2015

Minno wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just got around to watching episode 3, here are random notes from it, its a longer post than I thought but if you want to read it have fun.

A note on reflective scales. That is one of the few skill nerfs I agree with in this game. There is no counter but wait, the nerf added the option to shoot yourself in the face four times per cast. It negates all of the damage of those reflected skills and deals 100-135% of that damage. How would you expect, say, an archer to deal with infinite reflects again? Rebuild for melee? It sounds like there is a hint of wanting the old dk's back when talking about un-nerfing the skill "Dk class isn't the same anymore." If scales was un-nerfed wouldn't the abundance of unreflected skills still make that point moot?

In regards to blinds they won't add those back for the same reason they removed them. It wasn't the major minor buff system, it was in pve making so many mobs immune made the skills so awkward to balance. 40% dodge chance is in effect 40% damage reduction. From listening to this there is a hint in the background that dk balance seems to be based around making them what they were before all the nerfs.

Also one thing to think on about the talk of sorc burst (curse, frags, detonation), one timed dodge roll will force most of those to miss, several surprise attacks together in a row and some will miss and others won't it's putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing.

Something else is from testing a surprise attack from cloak will stun a target that has radiant magelight on.

And for the record i've gotten a full set of briarheart items from chest, v15 and 16, all just luck.

A few things from later in the episode you talked about shield stacking and sorcs. 1.) do you think zos can make changes with things like shield breaker still sitting around. 2.) The sorc has some major skills like overload light attacks (only one example) but as a stam bow sorc how does sorc's have everything"? I'm getting irritated at this point with how much is getting thrown at the class as a whole not the particular builds. Outside of the fotm builds what else is there? Looking forward to your talk on sorc's and templars now.

In regards to zergs in pvp, I don't think it is 'you need to be able to have small groups kill large groups' more that it should be detrimental to send all of your group in one faction. Objectives need to be given that smaller groups can do and make fights all over the map, not just where the zergs are bashing heads. Still think aoe's need to be better vs zergs (the aoe caps being inverted was a nice idea I recall) but small groups beating big groups could just make the big groups get bigger.

And @s7732425ub17_ESO, as someone who chose the class in part for surge it is not reliable as decent as it can be.

As a side not to @ZOS, for the sake of the game stop being so silent. A stray 'class buffs are coming soon*' on some stream is nothing. You say you aim for smaller more progressive balance passes but pushing them to once every 6 months isn't that and all the changes you make will make people relearn the game with how many would need to come to justify the delay. More changes more frequently with community interaction, show us directly you listen. Talk to us.

Nope they are to busy to talk to pvpers, wait for it, ever.

But then tonight my trade guild is talking about this developer meeting with our trade guild Saturday. LOL ZOS.

Seriously? A dev meeting for a trade guild but NOT A ENTIRE PART OF YOUR GAME. This is getting funnier and funnier.

Trade guilds have it worse than pvp. They have zero guild store support, lack of guild communication support, and overall they dictate the player based sales.

While we do need more 1on1 talks with devs, to say trade guilds don't need it is downright evil.
Some of those gms dedicate time to running that guild over playing the actual game.
Think about that next time you try to sell some items by using that store.

Not trying to say you don't need support. But trust me. These meetings with trade guilds and PVE guilds have been happening since launch. That is well know.

My comment was for other pvpers that know we haven't so much gotten a response really let alone a dedicated meeting. Some players have gone so far to do three podcasts trying to get them involved. The response? Ya we watched and took some notes Lol

Don't compare the two. It looks silly.

_Chaos · November 2015

Minno wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just got around to watching episode 3, here are random notes from it, its a longer post than I thought but if you want to read it have fun.

A note on reflective scales. That is one of the few skill nerfs I agree with in this game. There is no counter but wait, the nerf added the option to shoot yourself in the face four times per cast. It negates all of the damage of those reflected skills and deals 100-135% of that damage. How would you expect, say, an archer to deal with infinite reflects again? Rebuild for melee? It sounds like there is a hint of wanting the old dk's back when talking about un-nerfing the skill "Dk class isn't the same anymore." If scales was un-nerfed wouldn't the abundance of unreflected skills still make that point moot?

In regards to blinds they won't add those back for the same reason they removed them. It wasn't the major minor buff system, it was in pve making so many mobs immune made the skills so awkward to balance. 40% dodge chance is in effect 40% damage reduction. From listening to this there is a hint in the background that dk balance seems to be based around making them what they were before all the nerfs.

Also one thing to think on about the talk of sorc burst (curse, frags, detonation), one timed dodge roll will force most of those to miss, several surprise attacks together in a row and some will miss and others won't it's putting all your eggs in one basket kind of thing.

Something else is from testing a surprise attack from cloak will stun a target that has radiant magelight on.

And for the record i've gotten a full set of briarheart items from chest, v15 and 16, all just luck.

A few things from later in the episode you talked about shield stacking and sorcs. 1.) do you think zos can make changes with things like shield breaker still sitting around. 2.) The sorc has some major skills like overload light attacks (only one example) but as a stam bow sorc how does sorc's have everything"? I'm getting irritated at this point with how much is getting thrown at the class as a whole not the particular builds. Outside of the fotm builds what else is there? Looking forward to your talk on sorc's and templars now.

In regards to zergs in pvp, I don't think it is 'you need to be able to have small groups kill large groups' more that it should be detrimental to send all of your group in one faction. Objectives need to be given that smaller groups can do and make fights all over the map, not just where the zergs are bashing heads. Still think aoe's need to be better vs zergs (the aoe caps being inverted was a nice idea I recall) but small groups beating big groups could just make the big groups get bigger.

And @s7732425ub17_ESO, as someone who chose the class in part for surge it is not reliable as decent as it can be.

As a side not to @ZOS, for the sake of the game stop being so silent. A stray 'class buffs are coming soon*' on some stream is nothing. You say you aim for smaller more progressive balance passes but pushing them to once every 6 months isn't that and all the changes you make will make people relearn the game with how many would need to come to justify the delay. More changes more frequently with community interaction, show us directly you listen. Talk to us.

Nope they are to busy to talk to pvpers, wait for it, ever.

But then tonight my trade guild is talking about this developer meeting with our trade guild Saturday. LOL ZOS.

Seriously? A dev meeting for a trade guild but NOT A ENTIRE PART OF YOUR GAME. This is getting funnier and funnier.

Trade guilds have it worse than pvp. They have zero guild store support, lack of guild communication support, and overall they dictate the player based sales.

While we do need more 1on1 talks with devs, to say trade guilds don't need it is downright evil.
Some of those gms dedicate time to running that guild over playing the actual game.
Think about that next time you try to sell some items by using that store.

Trade guilds are in a decent spot, as they always have been. Leaders should be well versed in the different addons required to run a large guild. They do have the means to communicate if they look for it. (Pro Tip: ESOUI)

The game has gone on for two years with the current system, and it's been working fine. Sure the search options could be tweaked but I don't know what else you could really ask for in the current system. (Short of making M.M and Guild Messenger built into the base game)

Darnathian · November 2015

The conversation in guild was about adding crafting jewelry to be game. Not saying that wouldn't be cool but for God sakes can we fix stuff broken before we add more. All resources not working on future expansions should be working on broken issues and class balancing. Period. Or don't and this game will only have pvpers that are pve'rs going down to the sewers.

FENGRUSH · November 2015

So ZOS has been meeting with trade guilds for awhile and the store is still as bad as it is today?

Looks like those weekly meetings are paying off. Who do they send, the janitor to take notes?

Etaniel · November 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So ZOS has been meeting with trade guilds for awhile and the store is still as bad as it is today?

Looks like those weekly meetings are paying off. Who do they send, the janitor to take notes?

I'm see I'm not the only one making janitor jokes about the eso staff

Minno · November 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So ZOS has been meeting with trade guilds for awhile and the store is still as bad as it is today?

Looks like those weekly meetings are paying off. Who do they send, the janitor to take notes?

I've only heard it happening this year. With major devs gone, I don't think they can implement the changes those guilds want anyway without messing up already in place. I just dont feel the burn and pilage hatred is right in this (considering they are trying to advocate for their style of play which doesn't contribute to lag at all.)

And I agree devs should be meeting with pvp guilds. But then which playstyle? Zerg blob or small group? Casual pvp or 5 hour hardcore session players?

In response to my questions above, they should be meeting with you and other guests on the podcast with other community voted figure heads. But still worried though with good devs gone, how any of our suggestions get implemented. Or if our suggestions are as easy to place at all. One step at a time.

I think we need to solidify as a pvp community, organize and offer the devs substantial reasoning to listen to us over pve (which is what I see this podcast as and can do.)

frozywozy · November 2015

revonine wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Since when does ambush not pull you out of cloak? :S

In PvP Ambush immobilizes for 1 second. For whatever reason an immobilize effect doesn't pull you out of cloak. So that's potentially an Ambush and a Surprise Attack on your opponent both taking advantage of The Master Assassin passive. That's how I understand it at least.
Doesn't work all the time though apparently.

Not to forget the light attack weaving before the surprise attack, the fact that your opponent gets stunned by the surprise attack, and by the time he cc breaks and gains control of his character, you can probably weave another light attack and surprise attack making a total of 5 attacks before you can react to it. On top of that, you have 3 chances to proc camo hunter.

WTB NB BUFF PRETTY PLZZZ!

CP5 wrote: »

In regards to zergs in pvp, I don't think it is 'you need to be able to have small groups kill large groups' more that it should be detrimental to send all of your group in one faction. Objectives need to be given that smaller groups can do and make fights all over the map, not just where the zergs are bashing heads.

I like this idea. To continue Brian Wheeler's ideas about small scale PvP. He wanted to change the small cities like Bruma to incorporate into them all sorts of small scale instances such as CTF, Domination, etc. Those instances would be small maps with maybe 10v10 or something *cough battlegrounds*. Performances in those would be separated from Cyrodiil just like IC is.

So there could be a queuing system for each city and if your faction would win the battle, it would give points to your faction for the campaign.

Manoekin · November 2015

Minno wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So ZOS has been meeting with trade guilds for awhile and the store is still as bad as it is today?

Looks like those weekly meetings are paying off. Who do they send, the janitor to take notes?

And I agree devs should be meeting with pvp guilds. But then which playstyle? Zerg blob or small group? Casual pvp or 5 hour hardcore session players?

In response to my questions above, they should be meeting with you and other guests on the podcast with other community voted figure heads. But still worried though with good devs gone, how any of our suggestions get implemented. Or if our suggestions are as easy to place at all. One step at a time.

I think we need to solidify as a pvp community, organize and offer the devs substantial reasoning to listen to us over pve (which is what I see this podcast as and can do.)

I'm trying to do something like this, but I need contact with ZOS. Have a guild with a lot of good group players and inviting solo players from all factions. However, need ZOS's attention in order to get things moving if anyone can help with that.

Lava_Croft · November 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

So ZOS has been meeting with trade guilds for awhile and the store is still as bad as it is today?

Looks like those weekly meetings are paying off. Who do they send, the janitor to take notes?

I'm see I'm not the only one making janitor jokes about the eso staff

I think it's very degrading for a janitor to be compared to any of ESO's developers. I prefer 'interns'.