How do you feel about the VR replacement ZOS is working on?

Jura23 · November 2015

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

"on your highest level character"

Also Wrobel on Reddit:
"There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points."

Thanks, but no thanks.

So, all that nice gear is going to be set CP? You just know the requirements are going to be set to a stupid level especially since CP is gained by all lvl 50 characters on the account and the CP catch up system. And the ceiling on CP is going to go higher then 900.

Well, for all those that wanted it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CP6v4T3VT7I

Lol I knew they would find a way to implement this which would make me angry. And they really did.

Kronosphere · November 2015

Good Idea

Sausage wrote: »

Im actually excited this finally happens, VR-removal could mean we are closing to an expansion, usualy first expansions hits around 2-2.5 year mark.

err not sure where you've been but aaah, orsinium and imperial city?

Leandor · November 2015

Most complainers here seem to overlook one very important fact: CP are accountwide.

The main issue with veteran ranks was and is: if you want to play an alt, you have to go through the whole marathon again.

The system proposed makes you go through the first 50 levels again (which is a couple days of playtime at most) and bam, you can equip the same level of gear as your main char.

Of course you should still be required to get a bit of playtime under your belly to be able to equip the higher level equipment.

But keep in mind, as Rich said, the most powerful equipment will not necessarily require you to be at the current cap. It will possibly be higher than just vet rank times 10, but then with the current scale of XP required, you'd be far over that CP number if you gained the respective 16 million XP currently required for V16.

And you can do it spread over many chars instead of repeating it on every single char.

Think a bit before going on a rampage opposing this.

raasdal · November 2015

Good Idea

I think it is great.

The thing is, you can't view this as a "removal" of VR Ranks. Then you will be dissappointed. This is a "change" from VR Ranks, to CP Ranks. A little simplified, what we are getting, are the VR ranks that we know, but with these changes;

Ranking that is Account wide, and not Character Specific (HUGE thing for me personally!)
An actual purpose with the ranks, other than just Item Requirements - we now get passive benefits (CP Stars)

This is not by any means a revolution. This is just a changed on the VR ranks, which just happens to have a different name - primarily so they could implement it alongside VR ranks as they did.

Morozov · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Leandor wrote: »

Most complainers here seem to overlook one very important fact: CP are accountwide.

The main issue with veteran ranks was and is: if you want to play an alt, you have to go through the whole marathon again.

The system proposed makes you go through the first 50 levels again (which is a couple days of playtime at most) and bam, you can equip the same level of gear as your main char.

Of course you should still be required to get a bit of playtime under your belly to be able to equip the higher level equipment.

But keep in mind, as Rich said, the most powerful equipment will not necessarily require you to be at the current cap. It will possibly be higher than just vet rank times 10, but then with the current scale of XP required, you'd be far over that CP number if you gained the respective 16 million XP currently required for V16.

And you can do it spread over many chars instead of repeating it on every single char.

Think a bit before going on a rampage opposing this.

my hope is that the supposed gear coming out will make some items/sets worth getting even if you are not at the cap. My fear with this is if NOT then its going to become a grindfest till you reach the cap just to get gear that is worth while. I would like to see it again where an item like the old vr7 soulshine jewelry was a best in slot for dps or something to that effect.

EDIT: I do agree tho, the fact that CP is account wide will make it nice seeing as you wont have to grind out CP for each character you create.

MornaBaine · November 2015

I think much of this just underscores the fact that PvP and PvE will NEVER be compatible and should probably just really be 2 completely separate games. PvE and PvP armor should look the same visually but have different stats. That way, regardless of your playstyle, you can have the gear you like without having to engage in content you don't like. Those who like both can get both because you'd get PvE stuff by doing PvE content and PvP stuff by doing PvP content. Ditto for skills.

reften · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

voted that it sounds worse until they say what happens with equipment. Is a VR1 item going to be as good as a VR16 item? What about all the materials in game to craft items VR1 through VR15? How does that work?

I'm really pissed about the new VR16 equipment, and how I can't craft different sets without weeks of grinding. I hope this situation makes that better, but I have a hunch it's going to make it worse.

Jura23 · November 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

I think much of this just underscores the fact that PvP and PvE will NEVER be compatible and should probably just really be 2 completely separate games. PvE and PvP armor should look the same visually but have different stats. That way, regardless of your playstyle, you can have the gear you like without having to engage in content you don't like. Those who like both can get both because you'd get PvE stuff by doing PvE content and PvP stuff by doing PvP content. Ditto for skills.

I'm really not gonna respec each time I switch PvE and PvP. And I don't want the game to force me to do that.

ArvenAldmeri · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

This is so stupid idea. Please, just keep veteran ranks as they are. This feels so wrong. Its boring to level up to vr16 but I cant imagine if you "replace" it by champ points. Especially since champion system is such a huge inballance problem. Instead of vet rank grinding only CP or what? NO WAY.

Elloa · November 2015

I can't vote. I'm actually confused and don't know what to think anymore regarding this.
I'm absolutely not convinced it's a working solution, but I'm not so sure it's that bad either.

Alphashado · November 2015

Good Idea

Why do people keep assuming that the best gear will be restricted to the CP cap? The highest number they have even mentioned is 140

"When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have."

It clearly states above that a character with 140 CP will be able to equip V14 gear. So by this same equation, wouldn't you be able to equip V16 gear at 160 CP?

Why is everyone freaking out assuming that they are gonna need 500 CP to equip the best gear? For all we know, the best gear won't require any more CP than the current V16/CP conversion, which would be 160

kupacmac · November 2015

Good Idea

reften wrote: »

voted that it sounds worse until they say what happens with equipment. Is a VR1 item going to be as good as a VR16 item? What about all the materials in game to craft items VR1 through VR15? How does that work?

That's already been addressed in the thread with dev comments. They aren't removing the current gear tiers, they will just be "unlocked" with CP levels instead of VR levels.

Rhazmuz · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Alphashado wrote: »

Why do people keep assuming that the best gear will be restricted to the CP cap? The highest number they have even mentioned is 140

"When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have."

It clearly states above that a character with 140 CP will be able to equip V14 gear. So by this same equasion, wouldn't you be able to equip V16 gear at 160 CP?

Why is everyone freaking out assuming that they are gonna need 500 CP to equip the best gear? For all we know, the best gear won't require any more CP than the current V16/CP conversion, which would be 160

I think its not so much about what we will need for VR16 equivalent gear, as it is what will be needed for the future. In other words, will we continue to see the same pattern, with new material types being tied to larger CP requirements, and with slightly higher values (VR14 --> VR 16 gear).

If yes, then this will change nothing.

Alphashado · November 2015

Good Idea

kupacmac wrote: »

reften wrote: »

voted that it sounds worse until they say what happens with equipment. Is a VR1 item going to be as good as a VR16 item? What about all the materials in game to craft items VR1 through VR15? How does that work?

That's already been addressed in the thread with dev comments. They aren't removing the current gear tiers, they will just be "unlocked" with CP levels instead of VR levels.

Indeed, and it sounds like a pretty simple conversion to me: VR1 gear will require 10 CP, and VR16 gear will require 160 CP (and they have already said that existing characters will be awarded enough CP to wear their current gear)

I honestly don't understand where people are getting crazy numbers like OMG THE BEST GEAR WILL REQUIRE 900CP!!

BalticBlues · November 2015

I think the new system basically is a good idea, but one point worries me:

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

[*] We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)

IMHO this balance is not right:
- an average player doing Cadwells Silver/Gold needs ca. 4 days for a VR level.
- an average player (100 CP) currently needs only ca. 2 hours for 2.5 CP.

4 days is MUCH longer than 2 hours.
Therefore, I would suggest that each VR level should be worth 4 days of CPs.
For an average player this should be ca. 4x5 CP = 20 CP per VR level.

Alphashado · November 2015

Good Idea

Rhazmuz wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Why do people keep assuming that the best gear will be restricted to the CP cap? The highest number they have even mentioned is 140

"When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have."

It clearly states above that a character with 140 CP will be able to equip V14 gear. So by this same equasion, wouldn't you be able to equip V16 gear at 160 CP?

Why is everyone freaking out assuming that they are gonna need 500 CP to equip the best gear? For all we know, the best gear won't require any more CP than the current V16/CP conversion, which would be 160

I think its not so much about what we will need for VR16 equivalent gear, as it is what will be needed for the future. In other words, will we continue to see the same pattern, with new material types being tied to larger CP requirements, and with slightly higher values (VR14 --> VR 16 gear).

If yes, then this will change nothing.

Agreed, but level caps increase with all MMOs. it's the nature of the beast, and raising the CP requirement for endgame gear with content upgrades, DLCs etc is no different than raising the level cap in any other game. If the best gear with this conversion would currently only require 160 CP to wear, and it was increased to 180 (V18) with the next content DLC, then that is a very small requirement, and easy to achieve.

This conversion wouldn't eliminate level cap requirements, it would only restructure them to a more sensible system of progression.

DRXHarbinger · November 2015

Seriously all this bollocks about I need to grind to get better gear do I can PVP and be on the level as others. There are games like that, they require no grinding or "skill" nothing. It's called COD or Battlefield. If all you want to do is turn the console / PC on and take pops at people and go yay I owned him / her please play something else. Not everyone should have an equal change at being the best and putting nothing into it. Some people have put literally thousands of hours into this game to gain emperor etc and you just want it the easy way? Run and jump dudes. They day all my work and efforts is undone to please some fools who simply cannot effort a few hours of grinding (because that is all it is) and has no friends of social skills to get into a random group ZOS are dead to me. Why on earth you want to appease people, lazy people I might add is beyond me. Way too many cry babies on here whining over a few hours of repetition to gain many more hours of variation.

Rhazmuz · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Alphashado wrote: »

Rhazmuz wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Why do people keep assuming that the best gear will be restricted to the CP cap? The highest number they have even mentioned is 140

"When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have."

It clearly states above that a character with 140 CP will be able to equip V14 gear. So by this same equasion, wouldn't you be able to equip V16 gear at 160 CP?

Why is everyone freaking out assuming that they are gonna need 500 CP to equip the best gear? For all we know, the best gear won't require any more CP than the current V16/CP conversion, which would be 160

I think its not so much about what we will need for VR16 equivalent gear, as it is what will be needed for the future. In other words, will we continue to see the same pattern, with new material types being tied to larger CP requirements, and with slightly higher values (VR14 --> VR 16 gear).

If yes, then this will change nothing.

Agreed, but level caps increase with all MMOs. it's the nature of the beast, and raising the CP requirement for endgame gear with content upgrades, DLCs etc is no different than raising the level cap in any other game. If the best gear with this conversion would currently only require 160 CP to wear, and it was increased to 180 (V18) with the next content DLC, then that is a very small requirement, and easy to achieve.

I agree, I personally just dont like it.. To me it disincentivizes making gear legendary or using legendary glyphs, as I know there will be "better" gear in 3 months time.

The need/will to change gear should be driven by new options not just the old +2% increase.

Anyway this is just how I feel, I do like the fact that all alts will not have to go through the VR grind.

Rhazmuz · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Seriously all this bollocks about I need to grind to get better gear do I can PVP and be on the level as others. There are games like that, they require no grinding or "skill" nothing. It's called COD or Battlefield. If all you want to do is turn the console / PC on and take pops at people and go yay I owned him / her please play something else. Not everyone should have an equal change at being the best and putting nothing into it. Some people have put literally thousands of hours into this game to gain emperor etc and you just want it the easy way? Run and jump dudes. They day all my work and efforts is undone to please some fools who simply cannot effort a few hours of grinding (because that is all it is) and has no friends of social skills to get into a random group ZOS are dead to me. Why on earth you want to appease people, lazy people I might add is beyond me. Way too many cry babies on here whining over a few hours of repetition to gain many more hours of variation.

Who do you think spends the most dolla in the shop?

Rook_Master · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

So we are simply replacing Vet Ranks with CP progression and locking gear behind CPs? There is essentially no change then.

A turd by any other name, would still stink like sh*t.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

It's a non necessary change that is going to go right back and create the same problem that exists now.

TES is and always has been a open game.
Some of the later titles used specific character levels vs an all scaled world.

Both of these work well

What doesn't work well is trying to attach one leveling system to another.
The two can operate and function independent of each other but CP needs to stay as it is today.
If they truly want to keep a tiered level requirement, then they need to use a character level but that only changes VR to numerical and doesn't remove VR.

The best approach is to remove the problem.
They can adapt the existing mats and such to progression and create NPC difficulty that slows progression but what was shared is not a good move

Turelus · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Alphashado wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

reften wrote: »

voted that it sounds worse until they say what happens with equipment. Is a VR1 item going to be as good as a VR16 item? What about all the materials in game to craft items VR1 through VR15? How does that work?

That's already been addressed in the thread with dev comments. They aren't removing the current gear tiers, they will just be "unlocked" with CP levels instead of VR levels.

Indeed, and it sounds like a pretty simple conversion to me: VR1 gear will require 10 CP, and VR16 gear will require 160 CP (and they have already said that existing characters will be awarded enough CP to wear their current gear)

I honestly don't understand where people are getting crazy numbers like OMG THE BEST GEAR WILL REQUIRE 900CP!!

Some of us are going crazy because as your example above states, nothing changed. They removed one long grind system for levels/gear for another one just that has more rewards along the way.

Elijah_Crow · November 2015

Good Idea

Rook_Master wrote: »

So we are simply replacing Vet Ranks with CP progression and locking gear behind CPs? There is essentially no change then.

A turd by any other name, would still stink like sh*t.

Except for:

1. My friend who has only gotten to level 41 and I can play together much quicker than waiting the next two years for him to hit VR16. Much less difference between a level 50 0cp player and a level 50 300 cp player.

2. My friends who want to come PvP without going through the VR grind now can.

3. I can now try a different class and play to 50 and have all my CP on my new alt.

4. Finishing the storyline and beating Molag Bal actually means something now and when the rest of the world is open for however I want to earn CP, I'm going to enjoy it.

Khenarthi · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

I do not care one way or the other for VR to be removed, but since they are, I was hoping gear would no longer have a level requirement: requirements imply that higher-tier stuff is more desirable. Which is not always true when we think about trait research requirements for crafted sets, but I digress.

Doing away with level requirements for gear would allow for more diversity because maybe dropped sets from low VR would become more attractive... introducing CP requirements will make sure the "gear grind" remains well in place. So instead of horizontal progression and diversification, people will still strive for the same meta sets with the same meta builds.

Other than this, I am curious to see how it's implemented and will keep an open mind.

Turelus · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

So we are simply replacing Vet Ranks with CP progression and locking gear behind CPs? There is essentially no change then.

A turd by any other name, would still stink like sh*t.

Except for:

1. My friend who has only gotten to level 41 and I can play together much quicker than waiting the next two years for him to hit VR16. Much less difference between a level 50 0cp player and a level 50 300 cp player.

2. My friends who want to come PvP without going through the VR grind now can.

3. I can now try a different class and play to 50 and have all my CP on my new alt.

4. Finishing the storyline and beating Molag Bal actually means something now and when the rest of the world is open for however I want to earn CP, I'm going to enjoy it.

All of that is true, and fine. However gear shouldn't be CP locked, because once they make that change then nothing at all has changed from the current system.

I would rather a system where we have all items level 50 and each new content release gives new upgrade items to power up those items (binds item to account on use) like slots in the armour for their enhancements. Gear progression remains and people would have to work their way towards more powerful items, but we wouldn't be grinding XP/CP for them.

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Khenarthi wrote: »

I do not care one way or the other for VR to be removed, but since they are, I was hoping gear would no longer have a level requirement: requirements imply that higher-tier stuff is more desirable. Which is not always true when we think about trait research requirements for crafted sets, but I digress.

Doing away with level requirements for gear would allow for more diversity because maybe dropped sets from low VR would become more attractive... introducing CP requirements will make sure the "gear grind" remains well in place. So instead of horizontal progression and diversification, people will still strive for the same meta sets with the same meta builds.

Other than this, I am curious to see how it's implemented and will keep an open mind.

Your thoughts and comments on gear diversity and no VR/CP level requirement is how I look at it too....but I had to admit I'm not as open minded as you on the whole thing based on what was shared

Alphashado · November 2015

Good Idea

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

So we are simply replacing Vet Ranks with CP progression and locking gear behind CPs? There is essentially no change then.

A turd by any other name, would still stink like sh*t.

Except for:

1. My friend who has only gotten to level 41 and I can play together much quicker than waiting the next two years for him to hit VR16. Much less difference between a level 50 0cp player and a level 50 300 cp player.

2. My friends who want to come PvP without going through the VR grind now can.

3. I can now try a different class and play to 50 and have all my CP on my new alt.

4. Finishing the storyline and beating Molag Bal actually means something now and when the rest of the world is open for however I want to earn CP, I'm going to enjoy it.

This.

NBrookus · November 2015

Good Idea

I'm concerned the gear grind will get worse. Possibly the power difference between a few high level players with lots of time and, well, everyone else will also become worse.

But having VR ranks and CP at the same time is just annoying and confusing. CP is more customizable so I *hope* that this will allow for a wider range of builds and play styles. It will also give people that don't have tons of time to play and grind up a chance to try out other races and classes more easily.

So while I have concerns... I'm leaning toward positive.

Pendrillion · November 2015

Well we always forget that they should add faction specific content to combat VR Levels. I mean VR levels were invented to give us something to do, while we out leveled the game content in 2 Weeks tops back at launch. And the CP came because power gamers hit the cap yet again in few weeks. And left in swaths, because there was nothing to be done but grind the same stuff over and over...

We created our own hell..

NewBlacksmurf · November 2015

This sounds worse than VR

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Rook_Master wrote: »

So we are simply replacing Vet Ranks with CP progression and locking gear behind CPs? There is essentially no change then.

A turd by any other name, would still stink like sh*t.

Except for:

1. My friend who has only gotten to level 41 and I can play together much quicker than waiting the next two years for him to hit VR16. Much less difference between a level 50 0cp player and a level 50 300 cp player.

2. My friends who want to come PvP without going through the VR grind now can.

3. I can now try a different class and play to 50 and have all my CP on my new alt.

4. Finishing the storyline and beating Molag Bal actually means something now and when the rest of the world is open for however I want to earn CP, I'm going to enjoy it.

That's not how it works at all

Cadwell content is still there
-Beating the main story means nothing if your skills aren't leveled to 50
-CP only applies a passive but at 50, you're gear progression is still 49 but now you have to have CP first on your account and then still gather mats or buy gear to be viable while higher CP folks will still have higher gear because of the CP requirements

The change isn't better it's only moving VR to CP which isn't removing VR at all it's moving a per character gear restriction to an account leveling gear restriction

You still have to do all the stuff as we do today....you can't jump to a Gold zone and get vr10-14 mats
You could basically just dungeon grind....which moves one grind to another