How do you feel about the VR replacement ZOS is working on?

Isbilen

This sounds worse than VR

FizzOnly wrote: »

I think Gear will drop off equal to your CP Points?
To all the Haters: What about level1 is the Cap no skill,no attributes...nothing.there you go a person who played this game for over 1000 hours has the same stuff as a new player!sounds great kappa

Right, because the only two alternatives are 1000+ hours or nothing? Please.

Itoq

This sounds worse than VR

FizzOnly wrote: »

To all the Haters: What about level1 is the Cap no skill,no attributes...nothing.there you go a person who played this game for over 1000 hours has the same stuff as a new player!sounds great kappa

The best scenario is that playing the game for 1000 hours is a reward because the game is good and those 1000 hours were filled with enjoyable play time.

If instead, the reward for playing 1000 hours is merely an entitlement to a more powerful character and gear, then the game isn't as good/rewarding/enjoyable as it should be.

ItsGlaive

Good Idea

Repost of my thoughts from the other, similar thread on this topic:

Why do some mmo developers (and players for that matter) feel the need to measure progression through levels of any kind? By the sounds of it, CP will just be used in the same way as VR were to gate content. Not only that, but the power disparity between a newly minted lvl 50 and one at CP cap means that while the game may open up for them come reaching 50, they're still going to be completely uneffective vs someone at CP cap.

Do away with VR and hell, do away with CP too. Let the experience be the reward, exploring new zones, finding new stuff out in the world. And let player skill and experience at lvl 50 be the measure by which we judge progression.

The goal then becomes completing 'X' or exploring 'Y' rather than collecting numbers.

MisterBigglesworth

This sounds worse than VR

MrDerrikk wrote: »

However, why wouldn't they scale the CP amounts people have in the same way that they do with VR currently

Well they could certain do that, but that's ALSO really stupid.
So now, if I'm Rank 300 and I kill a really difficult boss, I get CP300 gear... meanwhile someone in my raid group who spent an extra 100 hours grinding, loots that boss at the same time, gets CP600 gear or whatever.

The main problem with this system is that it pushes people towards grinding rather than allowing you to get massive gear upgrades by successfully completing challenging content.

MisterBigglesworth

This sounds worse than VR

dday3six wrote: »

I actually LoL at all the people who thought VR ranks wouldn't be replaced by another grind heavy system. The game is content light. It's fills the empty space with grind.

LoL even the CP cap feeds into the proposed changes. It keeps the majority of pkayers from being ahead of the curve.

For the record: I'm not actually surprised by this!
Just the other day on this forum I wrote something to the effect of: "They'll probably make us all lvl 50 and turn all our V16 gear into lvl 49 gear, so we can grind for upgrades all over again"

But THIS system as described by Rich, is worse than I thought!

Elijah_Crow

Good Idea

dday3six wrote: »

I actually LoL at all the people who thought VR ranks wouldn't be replaced by another grind heavy system. The game is content light. It's fills the empty space with grind.

LoL even the CP cap feeds into the proposed changes. It keeps the majority of pkayers from being ahead of the curve.

Content light??? What kind of a *redacted* can look at everything in the game and say content light? After more than a year and a half I just got my 1000 quest complete achievement and still have several more zones I've never completed.

Ghost-Shot

Good Idea

FizzOnly wrote: »

At least they do something.Will it be Perfect? No but you simply cant make it perfect for everybody.
Time will tell how it works out

For PvP what about Campaigns based on your CP Level?If you want to PvP with a friend who has way higher CP Level you can enter it also if you want to.

There aren't enough people playing to do that, we have too many campaigns as it is.

Dear

As a new player, I feel like I am playing a completely separate game from the Veterans...

Elijah_Crow

Good Idea

I want progression in character strength and gear. I've played games where you hit cap and there is nothing to work towards. They were awful.

I'm perfectly fine with a slow steady pace for this progression, as long as it accompanies great content.

dday3six

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I actually LoL at all the people who thought VR ranks wouldn't be replaced by another grind heavy system. The game is content light. It's fills the empty space with grind.

LoL even the CP cap feeds into the proposed changes. It keeps the majority of pkayers from being ahead of the curve.

Content light??? What kind of a *redacted* can look at everything in the game and say content light? After more than a year and a half I just got my 1000 quest complete achievement and still have several more zones I've never completed.

Your experience is not the one true experience. The existence of your opinion does not invalidate the existence of mine.

I play on console. I got the game on launch 6/9/2015. I have nearly everything in the game completed, and have had it done since for about 2 months now. The speed I do content and the speed you do seems to be drastically different. I am nearly done with Orsinium and IC took about 3-4 days to get through.

The majority of my time has been spent gearing. Some 80% of it I'd say. "Gearing" includes everything from leveling to farming resources. So yeah I feel the game is content light when most of my time is spent gearing. I don't consider gearing to be content.

Valve

Good Idea

People are qqing for no reason.

I fail to see how this is *worse* that veteran ranks; people will no longer have to go through the massive grind to v16 to do end-game content effectively when trying another class.

Anyone who is currently v16 now will still be able to use their v16 gear, new gear that comes out will use higher CP requirements but they're not going to just increase the CP amount by 100 (as it currently stands, each vet rank seems to equal 10 CP).

Now players who have played single characters for ages will be able to level and gear new characters for end-game easier (no more vet rank grind all over again).

This also rewards altoholics in the long run; players will now only need to reach level 50 to start progressing on all their characters at once. I do agree that the initial conversion for people with lots of non-v16 characters should be looked at, though.

Just my thoughts, hopefully people can see where I'm coming from.

Edit: Oh and don't forget, we now have a CP catch up mechanic that will help new players catch up to long-term players.

MrDerrikk

Good Idea

Dear wrote: »

As a new player, I feel like I am playing a completely separate game from the Veterans...

I know the feeling...the game just gets to be a lot more about the grind to get the best gear/most CP when you get up there in levels, and seems to forget the amazing storyline and the like that went into the early-game.

ontheleftcoast

This sounds worse than VR

So what happens to "veteran" only content like Vet Dungeons? Will Cadwell's still exist? And will I be able to see the CP level of my opponent in Cyrodiil? I can currently see their level/vet level, with those removed I damn well better be able to see their CP level. This is basically cramming vet levels in CP levels and you know they're going to mess it up. Why? Because it's ZOS and they mess up *EVERYTHING*. At this point just stop with the pointless changes ZOS and give us content and FIX BUGS. You know, like lag, random dismounts, stuck in combat and can't mount, that kind of stuff. Fix all the major bugs *BEFORE* you mess with the game design. Please? For once do something *FOR* the players and not *TO* them.

Elijah_Crow

Good Idea

dday3six wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I actually LoL at all the people who thought VR ranks wouldn't be replaced by another grind heavy system. The game is content light. It's fills the empty space with grind.

LoL even the CP cap feeds into the proposed changes. It keeps the majority of pkayers from being ahead of the curve.

Content light??? What kind of a *redacted* can look at everything in the game and say content light? After more than a year and a half I just got my 1000 quest complete achievement and still have several more zones I've never completed.

Your experience is not the one true experience. The existence of your opinion does not invalidate the existence of mine.

I play on console. I got the game on launch 6/9/2015. I have nearly everything in the game completed, and have had it done since for about 2 months now. The speed I do content and the speed you do seems to be drastically different. I am nearly done with Orsinium and IC took about 3-4 days to get through.

The majority of my time has been spent gearing. Some 80% of it I'd say. "Gearing" includes everything from leveling to farming resources. So yeah I feel the game is content light went most of my time is spent gearing. I don't consider gearing to be content.

Yes, I get it. You live in the game and are a content locust. Doesn't change the fact that this game has an immense amount of content when compared to other games similar in size and scope. This is a fact, not an opinion.

Baconlad

Zos are you *** kidding me!? WHATS THE POINT OF REMOVING VR IF YOU JUST MAKE THE GEAR LOCKED BEHIND CP?! doesn't that completeltly negate the idea of your game?! The grind is the already incredibly hard to get gear! So now you can still negate my *** overly hard to get gear ever couple of months. I DONT PLAY THE GAME FOR GRIND. I play to get my gear, and *** enjoy it. Come out with new sets every couple of months that are "different" so I can still be awesome but have a choice in build. THATS WHAT THIS GAME IS ABOUT. If you take my suggestion you have just almost completely negated power creep. Only power creep being the very small CP gain. CP gain was supposed to be the progression, *** I HATE GEAR PROGRESSION AFTER MAX LEVEL. Reason why I stopped playing WoWs cluster ***. Oh yeah by NOT giving cp gear locks, you also never have outdated content like I don't know, the DSA that used to be fun but is now pointless...please don't do this please please please...

ItsGlaive

Good Idea

Dear wrote: »

As a new player, I feel like I am playing a completely separate game from the Veterans...

That's part of the issue, the disparity between the two creates a gulf, and make it much harder for new players to catch up to their friends already playing the game.

Turelus

This sounds worse than VR

I really don't want VR ranks removed only to be replaced with the same thing but in smaller chunks.

I mean nothing will change, instead of being VR grinds each update it will be CP grinds each update, then obtaining the same gear at new levels (if they bother to update them) or going for whatever the new sets they add which are the only max level options.

Changing VR to CR changes nothing but the name and that you'll get little bonuses between the important numbers, for example.

Current max 501 with best gear set at this level.
Update is released and the new best gear is set at level 510, we still have to grind the same (if not more) XP to get access to the new items, the only difference is instead of two big boost in power it's broken into 10 little ones which work out the same way.

Flak

If gear will be CP-based it sucks, atm the best gear drops from the hardest content and is BoP, i dont think we need another restriction here, if a player can complete the hardest content he should be able to wear the best gear, no matter what his CP Level is.
This sounds like another massive grind and means that the good old V14 Sets will still be wortless, meaning a big loss in variety. Sadly i have to say i expected something like this, with the DLC Concept and CP Cap raise that means that u will have to grind up and get new gear evry 3 months.

ContraTempo

Some locations currently have a leveling system. Would that continue under this scheme? If so, how would it work?

Jura23

I don't care as long as I'm still max lvl when the change happens.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Good Idea

I hit the wrong option I meant I don't think this is a good idea at all, and as mentioned earlier why the hell do MMO developers feel the need to make everything based upon levels and why does everything in this game have to be combat related?

Zenimax stated play the way you want...well what if I wanted to play as someone who was not a fighter? What if I wanted to enter Cyrodiil as a civilian and not a Soldier?

FizzOnly

Good Idea

Isbilen wrote: »

FizzOnly wrote: »

I think Gear will drop off equal to your CP Points?
To all the Haters: What about level1 is the Cap no skill,no attributes...nothing.there you go a person who played this game for over 1000 hours has the same stuff as a new player!sounds great kappa

Right, because the only two alternatives are 1000+ hours or nothing? Please.

i was just overdramatic....jeez...People qqing for months now about the VR levels.ZoS listens and decides to something and people still raging....ofc they want and need to lock best gear behind something,in this new case behind cp.get over it.

Itoq wrote: »

FizzOnly wrote: »

To all the Haters: What about level1 is the Cap no skill,no attributes...nothing.there you go a person who played this game for over 1000 hours has the same stuff as a new player!sounds great kappa

The best scenario is that playing the game for 1000 hours is a reward because the game is good and those 1000 hours were filled with enjoyable play time.

If instead, the reward for playing 1000 hours is merely an entitlement to a more powerful character and gear, then the game isn't as good/rewarding/enjoyable as it should be.

I think you Guys start to forget this is mmorpg...every mmo has something you need to grind.If you want enjoyable super fantastic game without endless grinding and an END go play something like fallout....I actually like to grind/farm for max gear even in solo games like witcher...doesnt mean i skip story and sidequests.I like both.

Beesting

Good Idea

I played this game a lot and have just finished leveling my second char. (468 cp i have now)
I first had to grind xp, then do lots of pledges to level the indaunted skill line
Then collect skyshards and mages books to level the mages skill line

Now i just have to unlock battleroar 2 which is colonel rank 2, about 9 million ap (where vigor used to be)
This will take another 2 months if i pvp every evening

Then i can level my nightblade and do it all over again, by then it will be summer....

People think gear is important to be competative in pvp, but all the passives are even more important and to unlock those you still have to play a lot.......
Apart from that after the changes to pvp you have to group with people that know what they are doing because solo you won't get far anyway, even in the best gear etc etc. In Ic i once was in a group of 12 people that were new to pvp, all good pve players maybe, but the were killed in seconds by 3 hardcore pvp-ers that knew how to play.

The good thing i can see is that making a new char or trying a new class will now be possible in less time. But i don't really expect them to remove vr ranks soon, and i am used to them now.

Jura23

Flak wrote: »

If gear will be CP-based it sucks, atm the best gear drops from the hardest content and is BoP, i dont think we need another restriction here, if a player can complete the hardest content he should be able to wear the best gear, no matter what his CP Level is.
This sounds like another massive grind and means that the good old V14 Sets will still be wortless, meaning a big loss in variety. Sadly i have to say i expected something like this, with the DLC Concept and CP Cap raise that means that u will have to grind up and get new gear evry 3 months.

Yep. I don't think this is a good decision. but it won't make me to do the grind. I will just use craftable gear and ignore the RNG bound content. If that's what they want ppl to do, then be my guest.

Jitterbug

Good Idea

newtinmpls wrote: »

I play many alts (none above vet 5), and the current system sorta equals out CP from multiple low-level alts so that I can sorta compete with folks who have one vet 16.

I'll be kinda whomped and left in the dust by this new system.

how so? cp is cp regardless of your veteran rank upon conversion. If you have many veteran rank alt you play, you will also gain cp. You had to get to vr16 in the "old" system. How is that not whomping you?

Moonshadow66

I have no real opinion on this yet, I'll see when it's in the game.

I_killed_Vivec

This sounds worse than VR

Sooo...

Unless they change the current gear, we will have VR15 gear become CP150 gear and VR16 gear become CP160 gear - see what they've done there? Just multiply by 10.

(It's a bit like what they did with the stats, multiply by 10 so that you can "see" minor incremental changes better...)

Consider a current VR10 - they will be transferred to CP100. The grind in CP to 160 won't be any different from the grind from VR10 to VR16. If the first "new" level is CP170 then they will be happy - the speed of progression will be similar to what they have experienced so far.

If the level is CP300 then it's an enormous leap and a considerable further grind to get to a level which a lot of current players have already achieved. They will not be happy.

Conversely, if the first "new" level is CP170, then a lot of people will already have it! The only thing stopping people gearing up with VR17 (sorry, CP170) gear will be the grind for materials or the grind for drops.

And while we grind we will inevitably get more CP, so we'll all be far above the next level when it's released - so again there will "only" be the grind for gear.

Either way, if people thought the grind was bad getting to VR16, well it's only going to get worse.

Tors

Basically all this shows is what people have been telling the "REMOVE VR LEVEL" brigade.

The old system was 1-50 + VR level

You could also call it 1- 65

The new system is going to be 0 - 160 CP

You could also call it 1- 65



Basically nothing changes but the name. Which is what was always going to happen.

(although move to the terrible item level systems of other MMORPGs looks to be on the way, to much for this post though)

That said, now that the people who wanted VR ranks removed so they didint need to level have either ....... leveled or left the game, opinion is not so heavy in the "Remove VR Ranks"

People have had a more indepth look at what it was that was annoying them (aside from the "I want it now" kids)

Basically from what I can see, people were more agrieved at the enforced Cadwells. And I can understand this easily.

Cadwells was a good "quiick fix" but was left in for far too long. People should have been allowed to enter Cadwells Gold areas without having to complete the Silver.

Even the lack of quests to get to VR14 would have been negated somewhat by allowing people some leaway.

This I can understand and appreaciate. Levels were never the issue with VR ranks.


Although a new linear naming convention can only make things simpler for people.

Elijah_Crow

Good Idea

WTB CP500 mats. Must have for Stamina Nightblase doing Vet Maelstrom Arena. Maybe then.... Never mind. Probably not.

dday3six

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

I actually LoL at all the people who thought VR ranks wouldn't be replaced by another grind heavy system. The game is content light. It's fills the empty space with grind.

LoL even the CP cap feeds into the proposed changes. It keeps the majority of pkayers from being ahead of the curve.

Content light??? What kind of a *redacted* can look at everything in the game and say content light? After more than a year and a half I just got my 1000 quest complete achievement and still have several more zones I've never completed.

Your experience is not the one true experience. The existence of your opinion does not invalidate the existence of mine.

I play on console. I got the game on launch 6/9/2015. I have nearly everything in the game completed, and have had it done since for about 2 months now. The speed I do content and the speed you do seems to be drastically different. I am nearly done with Orsinium and IC took about 3-4 days to get through.

The majority of my time has been spent gearing. Some 80% of it I'd say. "Gearing" includes everything from leveling to farming resources. So yeah I feel the game is content light went most of my time is spent gearing. I don't consider gearing to be content.

Yes, I get it. You live in the game and are a content locust. Doesn't change the fact that this game has an immense amount of content when compared to other games similar in size and scope. This is a fact, not an opinion.

Actually no. I don't play the game that much. Either way it's not your place to say how is the correct way to play the game.

You can defend and deflect all you want, but calling something a fact doesn't automatically make it one.