Solo vet arena proves DK needs to be buffed

TotterTates · November 2015

Ted_Mosby_Architect wrote: »

I think it's more than just buff or nerf or whatever. DK's are undoubtedly bad in solo play but put a DK in a group setting such as trials or dungeons and all of a sudden DK's are amazing. Good DK's can pull 25k plus dps in trials so I feel like any buffs will make them super OP. But on the other hand, having such a small number of DK's on the leaderboards is a problem. Basically what I'm saying is that it seems more complicated than what it looks like on the surface. I'd like to hear some opinions on this.

I don't care about buffs, what I care about is utility. Yes, I completed vMA on my stamina DK (no WW)... but I had 3 DK skills on my bar (Igneous Shield, Dragon Fire Scale, Corrosive Armor). I think this in itself is an issue.

DKs, in the beginning, were all about utility. Damage shields, dps buffs, and resource return were the bees knees. Yes, put us in a 12 man trial and we can pull 25k dps, but I can pull better numbers with my sorc by spamming light attacks (I love my sorc).

Give me back my utility and I'll be happy

Atzel · November 2015

I have played DK since beta! And... and... and... i obviously know more about any of you and so on...

QFT

sagitter · November 2015

I finished it, with magick nb, magick sorc, stam temp and stam nb, i arrived to last stage 9 boss, with magicka dk, and i can say i had more difficult than the others classes build, but i know i can do it, but yes anyway , it's a bit hard with mag dk , idk maybe i'm doing something wrong with the build.

xXNesTXx · November 2015

L2P

Rylana · November 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

I am going to put this to bed.,

I have a stam DK and a Magicka DK

I have played DK since beta.

Without tooting my own horn I am going to flat out state I am probably a 5 percenter or better when it comes to playing this class. It was my main for a very very long time.

DK today is the hardest class to play well and be effective in any way. In PvP its a total wash for magicka, stamina is basically a cookie cutter build involving no class skills whatsoever. PvE you just throw it together like any other ranged caster and there ya go, but the class itself is borked.

And even if you play it well, it is still subpar to the other three classes in any role.

DK literally has no place in the game now, nothing defines it as a stand out. If I want a tank or healer, im bringing my templar. If I want a ranged caster style DPS, im bringing my sorc. if I want more up close and personal DPS, im bringing the nightblade. The DKs just kinda sit on the shelf.

The results we are seeing in the Maelstrom leaderboards have no maybe attached to them, DK is underpowered as hell right now.

Period.

Magicka DK needs some sort of buff(like templars), Stam DK is totally fine in both pve and pvp.

Thats kind of the point I was making about cookie cutter. yeah sure stam DK is fine, except it really uses no DK skills at all

its just a stam build used the same way a nightblade templar or sorc would use it, thrown onto a dk character. you MIGHT use dragonleap. everything else is just weapon guild and alliance war abilities.

So when you say "stam DK is fine" you might as well say "Stam is fine" without the DK in it, because I use the exact same skills, weapons, armor, jewelry and champion layout I do on my nightblade, feels exactly the same.

Except when I go into ganker mode, then you see class skills for the NB, the DK really has nothing further to offer besides generic stamina damage.

Sharakor · November 2015

Ironically, it's the same people that whine about overpowered classes or abilities that come back later to try to revert the damage they made. Not aimed at OP but in a general sense.

Vangy · November 2015

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Alcast · November 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

I am going to put this to bed.,

I have a stam DK and a Magicka DK

I have played DK since beta.

Without tooting my own horn I am going to flat out state I am probably a 5 percenter or better when it comes to playing this class. It was my main for a very very long time.

DK today is the hardest class to play well and be effective in any way. In PvP its a total wash for magicka, stamina is basically a cookie cutter build involving no class skills whatsoever. PvE you just throw it together like any other ranged caster and there ya go, but the class itself is borked.

And even if you play it well, it is still subpar to the other three classes in any role.

DK literally has no place in the game now, nothing defines it as a stand out. If I want a tank or healer, im bringing my templar. If I want a ranged caster style DPS, im bringing my sorc. if I want more up close and personal DPS, im bringing the nightblade. The DKs just kinda sit on the shelf.

The results we are seeing in the Maelstrom leaderboards have no maybe attached to them, DK is underpowered as hell right now.

Period.

Magicka DK needs some sort of buff(like templars), Stam DK is totally fine in both pve and pvp.

Thats kind of the point I was making about cookie cutter. yeah sure stam DK is fine, except it really uses no DK skills at all

its just a stam build used the same way a nightblade templar or sorc would use it, thrown onto a dk character. you MIGHT use dragonleap. everything else is just weapon guild and alliance war abilities.

So when you say "stam DK is fine" you might as well say "Stam is fine" without the DK in it, because I use the exact same skills, weapons, armor, jewelry and champion layout I do on my nightblade, feels exactly the same.

Except when I go into ganker mode, then you see class skills for the NB, the DK really has nothing further to offer besides generic stamina damage.

The key of a Stam DK build (at least for me) is Dragon Leap (which does crazy damage) and Molten and Fossilize. I cannot "Just put" than on any stam class. Plus the Passives are what make Stam DKs even more unique to other classes. Only on Stam DK I can go full burst build with 700 Stam rec and still have better sustain than on another class with 1.8k stam Recovery.

Saying that you can put that on every class means you do clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

DanielWinterborn · November 2015

Things are messed up people, i have to say this : I don't know about how DK goes in the arena but i do know templar is VERY weak, magicka templar that is. As for DK in cyrodiil well my lvl 38 is doing uber great, totally surprised....messed up

Bashev · November 2015

Xantaria wrote: »

DKs have strong defense and very strong offense when looking at the game as a whole. That their defense doesn't work in vMA (because being that tanky DK won't push you through vMA) and that other classes do have defenses that work very very well in vMA (shields are pretty much the only way to save yourself from huge damage spikes) doesn't mean DKs need to be buffed. vMA does favor specific builds and classes extremely. But vMA does not reflect the whole game.

It reflects perfectly the PvP meta ==> take damage from a lot of different sources and if you want to kill something you have to burst it.

Alcast · November 2015

Bashev wrote: »

Xantaria wrote: »

DKs have strong defense and very strong offense when looking at the game as a whole. That their defense doesn't work in vMA (because being that tanky DK won't push you through vMA) and that other classes do have defenses that work very very well in vMA (shields are pretty much the only way to save yourself from huge damage spikes) doesn't mean DKs need to be buffed. vMA does favor specific builds and classes extremely. But vMA does not reflect the whole game.

It reflects perfectly the PvP meta ==> take damage from a lot of different sources and if you want to kill something you have to burst it.

There is nothing else apart from burst due to 50% dmg mitigation and *** OP Shields that are noncritable.
ZOS Logic at its best

dday3six · November 2015

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

Rylana · November 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

I am going to put this to bed.,

I have a stam DK and a Magicka DK

I have played DK since beta.

Without tooting my own horn I am going to flat out state I am probably a 5 percenter or better when it comes to playing this class. It was my main for a very very long time.

DK today is the hardest class to play well and be effective in any way. In PvP its a total wash for magicka, stamina is basically a cookie cutter build involving no class skills whatsoever. PvE you just throw it together like any other ranged caster and there ya go, but the class itself is borked.

And even if you play it well, it is still subpar to the other three classes in any role.

DK literally has no place in the game now, nothing defines it as a stand out. If I want a tank or healer, im bringing my templar. If I want a ranged caster style DPS, im bringing my sorc. if I want more up close and personal DPS, im bringing the nightblade. The DKs just kinda sit on the shelf.

The results we are seeing in the Maelstrom leaderboards have no maybe attached to them, DK is underpowered as hell right now.

Period.

Magicka DK needs some sort of buff(like templars), Stam DK is totally fine in both pve and pvp.

Thats kind of the point I was making about cookie cutter. yeah sure stam DK is fine, except it really uses no DK skills at all

its just a stam build used the same way a nightblade templar or sorc would use it, thrown onto a dk character. you MIGHT use dragonleap. everything else is just weapon guild and alliance war abilities.

So when you say "stam DK is fine" you might as well say "Stam is fine" without the DK in it, because I use the exact same skills, weapons, armor, jewelry and champion layout I do on my nightblade, feels exactly the same.

Except when I go into ganker mode, then you see class skills for the NB, the DK really has nothing further to offer besides generic stamina damage.

The key of a Stam DK build (at least for me) is Dragon Leap (which does crazy damage) and Molten and Fossilize. I cannot "Just put" than on any stam class. Plus the Passives are what make Stam DKs even more unique to other classes. Only on Stam DK I can go full burst build with 700 Stam rec and still have better sustain than on another class with 1.8k stam Recovery.

Saying that you can put that on every class means you do clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

The resource return on dragonleap is negligible, due to its base cost being so low. Its damage is fine, but no better than a soul tether.

The other passives in the tree really dont do much, you cant really make a case for spamming earthen heart abilities to replace raw regen because of the prohibitively high cost of the earthen heart tree (that and as a stam build youre working with 10k-15k magicka at best, giving you back at most 25% of a stam pool just to have burned through all of your magicka in the process). A nightblade with almost 2k recovery is going to beat that resource gain just on that fact alone.

Molten armaments is a nice skill, good for those heavies, yep, sure is. its like the one class ability thats actually good right now for stam builds. The problem with it is youre basically railroaded into just spamming heavies at that point, something anyone can do. Which is fine I guess, but wont really do much better if at all vs a good weave with just lights/weapon attacks. You can weave a heavy/wreckblow rotation, but its choppy and requires a recasted molten every two rotations, actually lowering the number of hits done. Youre better just spamming wreckblow/light most of the time, still get ulti gain, still get resources back, but dont lose out because youre waiting for fully charged heavies to line up with the short duration of molten so it works smoothly.

Lets not even get into how bad it is for PvP though, if youre trying to use molten heavies in PvP either 1. your opponent completely sucks or is afk, or 2. Youre using a ranged weapon, any of which have better rotations for actually killing players. (the only ranged stamina weapon is the bow and if youre molten/heavying with a bow youre doing it completely wrong)

I also guarantee you a crit build nightblade will blow a DK away in terms of raw damage with heavy attacks, especially with a cloak weave. And lets not forget built in executes. I mean vs everything except a completely motionless not defending target dummy or something.

I mean, you seem to be trying to discredit me on my "lack of knowledge" but we can really have a go at it if you like. I dont just claim things. (as you may have inferred from my quick math regarding earthen heart skills above, cost/return)

Bashev · November 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

I am going to put this to bed.,

I have a stam DK and a Magicka DK

I have played DK since beta.

Without tooting my own horn I am going to flat out state I am probably a 5 percenter or better when it comes to playing this class. It was my main for a very very long time.

DK today is the hardest class to play well and be effective in any way. In PvP its a total wash for magicka, stamina is basically a cookie cutter build involving no class skills whatsoever. PvE you just throw it together like any other ranged caster and there ya go, but the class itself is borked.

And even if you play it well, it is still subpar to the other three classes in any role.

DK literally has no place in the game now, nothing defines it as a stand out. If I want a tank or healer, im bringing my templar. If I want a ranged caster style DPS, im bringing my sorc. if I want more up close and personal DPS, im bringing the nightblade. The DKs just kinda sit on the shelf.

The results we are seeing in the Maelstrom leaderboards have no maybe attached to them, DK is underpowered as hell right now.

Period.

Magicka DK needs some sort of buff(like templars), Stam DK is totally fine in both pve and pvp.

Thats kind of the point I was making about cookie cutter. yeah sure stam DK is fine, except it really uses no DK skills at all

its just a stam build used the same way a nightblade templar or sorc would use it, thrown onto a dk character. you MIGHT use dragonleap. everything else is just weapon guild and alliance war abilities.

So when you say "stam DK is fine" you might as well say "Stam is fine" without the DK in it, because I use the exact same skills, weapons, armor, jewelry and champion layout I do on my nightblade, feels exactly the same.

Except when I go into ganker mode, then you see class skills for the NB, the DK really has nothing further to offer besides generic stamina damage.

The key of a Stam DK build (at least for me) is Dragon Leap (which does crazy damage) and Molten and Fossilize. I cannot "Just put" than on any stam class. Plus the Passives are what make Stam DKs even more unique to other classes. Only on Stam DK I can go full burst build with 700 Stam rec and still have better sustain than on another class with 1.8k stam Recovery.

Saying that you can put that on every class means you do clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

The resource return on dragonleap is negligible, due to its base cost being so low. Its damage is fine, but no better than a soul tether.

The other passives in the tree really dont do much, you cant really make a case for spamming earthen heart abilities to replace raw regen because of the prohibitively high cost of the earthen heart tree (that and as a stam build youre working with 10k-15k magicka at best, giving you back at most 25% of a stam pool just to have burned through all of your magicka in the process). A nightblade with almost 2k recovery is going to beat that resource gain just on that fact alone.

Molten armaments is a nice skill, good for those heavies, yep, sure is. its like the one class ability thats actually good right now for stam builds. The problem with it is youre basically railroaded into just spamming heavies at that point, something anyone can do. Which is fine I guess, but wont really do much better if at all vs a good weave with just lights/weapon attacks. You can weave a heavy/wreckblow rotation, but its choppy and requires a recasted molten every two rotations, actually lowering the number of hits done. Youre better just spamming wreckblow/light most of the time, still get ulti gain, still get resources back, but dont lose out because youre waiting for fully charged heavies to line up with the short duration of molten so it works smoothly.

Lets not even get into how bad it is for PvP though, if youre trying to use molten heavies in PvP either 1. your opponent completely sucks or is afk, or 2. Youre using a ranged weapon, any of which have better rotations for actually killing players. (the only ranged stamina weapon is the bow and if youre molten/heavying with a bow youre doing it completely wrong)

I also guarantee you a crit build nightblade will blow a DK away in terms of raw damage with heavy attacks, especially with a cloak weave. And lets not forget built in executes. I mean vs everything except a completely motionless not defending target dummy or something.

I mean, you seem to be trying to discredit me on my "lack of knowledge" but we can really have a go at it if you like. I dont just claim things. (as you may have inferred from my quick math regarding earthen heart skills above, cost/return)

I can agree with the most arguments except that molten with bow is wrong. This is one of the best combos for ganking. You can see it in @Alcast videos.

LillyAngel · November 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

This is normally what happens when PvPers whinge constantly for nerfs and it happens then down the road they realise it was a bad idea and then try to get the class buffed. Quite an interesting community if you ask me

Exactly, it's all those PVP Sorcs, NBs and Templars who cried out loud that DKs are too much to deal with. So, ZOS took it literally and nerfed the class patch after patch. I don't get it sometimes, it seems to me like ZOS designers have no clue and just listen to some cry babies for advises. Pathetic.

Anyway, i still think that DKs in PVE are very very good. They got harder to play but i love them, even with all the nerfs. I literally roll through stuff in PVE. Of course vMA is a different story, i had to level up a Healing Staff (lol, what?!) as i was unable to stay alive for long because a board and sword don't work anymore. Yeah, sounds strange but it seems to me that someone at ZOS thought that DKs running with a healing staff make more sense than with a board and sword.

In PVP there are a challenge to play but not impossible, i believe that with the right gear and set up you can be quite good, but again, not what it used to be, OP.

All in all, i blame the community/players for all the nerfs classes get, these days you get nothing but cry babies and trolls on the forums screaming about something being OP and telling ZOS to fix it. And instead of buffing a certain class they go the other way and nerf it.

I still love my DKs, nothing will change that.

Vangy · November 2015

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

.......

Let me talk you through 99% of stam dk / stam sorc builds. (assuming they dont pvp and have caltrops or vigor)

For convenience im gona use DK; 2H/DW

Step 1: Rally buff must be up at all times.
Step 2: Make sure u Light attack>Unstable flame every 10.5 secs

*note: if you pvp and have caltrops u should use this as well. Dont throw this before tank takes aggro please. U will die.

Step 3: Wear a nose guard and mash ur face into WB x100 with attack weaving ( Ie tap left click then hold right click just as your guy starts using WB).

Step 4: Boss in exec range spam Executioner.

If ur build is a full QQ weapon damage build with 800 stam recovery occasionally cast obsidian shield/molten weapons to regen stam. And ofcourse use ultimate when you should.

Very VERY complicated yes? I mean come on u need to juggle rally, unstable flame and at the same time u have to mash face into wb. God who could ever do this?

Vangy · November 2015

Rylana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Rylana wrote: »

I am going to put this to bed.,

I have a stam DK and a Magicka DK

I have played DK since beta.

Without tooting my own horn I am going to flat out state I am probably a 5 percenter or better when it comes to playing this class. It was my main for a very very long time.

DK today is the hardest class to play well and be effective in any way. In PvP its a total wash for magicka, stamina is basically a cookie cutter build involving no class skills whatsoever. PvE you just throw it together like any other ranged caster and there ya go, but the class itself is borked.

And even if you play it well, it is still subpar to the other three classes in any role.

DK literally has no place in the game now, nothing defines it as a stand out. If I want a tank or healer, im bringing my templar. If I want a ranged caster style DPS, im bringing my sorc. if I want more up close and personal DPS, im bringing the nightblade. The DKs just kinda sit on the shelf.

The results we are seeing in the Maelstrom leaderboards have no maybe attached to them, DK is underpowered as hell right now.

Period.

Magicka DK needs some sort of buff(like templars), Stam DK is totally fine in both pve and pvp.

Thats kind of the point I was making about cookie cutter. yeah sure stam DK is fine, except it really uses no DK skills at all

its just a stam build used the same way a nightblade templar or sorc would use it, thrown onto a dk character. you MIGHT use dragonleap. everything else is just weapon guild and alliance war abilities.

So when you say "stam DK is fine" you might as well say "Stam is fine" without the DK in it, because I use the exact same skills, weapons, armor, jewelry and champion layout I do on my nightblade, feels exactly the same.

Except when I go into ganker mode, then you see class skills for the NB, the DK really has nothing further to offer besides generic stamina damage.

The key of a Stam DK build (at least for me) is Dragon Leap (which does crazy damage) and Molten and Fossilize. I cannot "Just put" than on any stam class. Plus the Passives are what make Stam DKs even more unique to other classes. Only on Stam DK I can go full burst build with 700 Stam rec and still have better sustain than on another class with 1.8k stam Recovery.

Saying that you can put that on every class means you do clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

The resource return on dragonleap is negligible, due to its base cost being so low. Its damage is fine, but no better than a soul tether.

The other passives in the tree really dont do much, you cant really make a case for spamming earthen heart abilities to replace raw regen because of the prohibitively high cost of the earthen heart tree (that and as a stam build youre working with 10k-15k magicka at best, giving you back at most 25% of a stam pool just to have burned through all of your magicka in the process). A nightblade with almost 2k recovery is going to beat that resource gain just on that fact alone.

Molten armaments is a nice skill, good for those heavies, yep, sure is. its like the one class ability thats actually good right now for stam builds. The problem with it is youre basically railroaded into just spamming heavies at that point, something anyone can do. Which is fine I guess, but wont really do much better if at all vs a good weave with just lights/weapon attacks. You can weave a heavy/wreckblow rotation, but its choppy and requires a recasted molten every two rotations, actually lowering the number of hits done. Youre better just spamming wreckblow/light most of the time, still get ulti gain, still get resources back, but dont lose out because youre waiting for fully charged heavies to line up with the short duration of molten so it works smoothly.

Lets not even get into how bad it is for PvP though, if youre trying to use molten heavies in PvP either 1. your opponent completely sucks or is afk, or 2. Youre using a ranged weapon, any of which have better rotations for actually killing players. (the only ranged stamina weapon is the bow and if youre molten/heavying with a bow youre doing it completely wrong)

I also guarantee you a crit build nightblade will blow a DK away in terms of raw damage with heavy attacks, especially with a cloak weave. And lets not forget built in executes. I mean vs everything except a completely motionless not defending target dummy or something.

I mean, you seem to be trying to discredit me on my "lack of knowledge" but we can really have a go at it if you like. I dont just claim things. (as you may have inferred from my quick math regarding earthen heart skills above, cost/return)

No disrespect to Alcast cos he cleared vMSA like a boss on most toons. But I think @Rylana is spot on here. Agree 100%. PVE i just go LA>WB instead of trying to weave in fully charged heavy with molten. That crap wastes dps and gimps ulti gen. LA weave is so much better. I just make up for *** stam regen with obsidian shield casts everytime i rebuff rally and run immovabilty pots in PVE. PVP tho its a whole diff matter. Stam DK is decent there. ( not fantastic) but still decent. Especially if u get the jump on someone with a bow heavy attack with rally, molten and camo hunter proc its an almost sure-death for any vamp ( non vamps sometimes get one shot too).

Ommy71 · November 2015

sagitter wrote: »

I finished it, with magick nb, magick sorc, stam temp and stam nb, i arrived to last stage 9 boss, with magicka dk, and i can say i had more difficult than the others classes build, but i know i can do it, but yes anyway , it's a bit hard with mag dk , idk maybe i'm doing something wrong with the build.

Clap, clap, clap.

Joy_Division · November 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Maybe the low number of Dragon Knights is related to the fact that most Dragon Knights have lived through a year of being OP as *** and now have trouble adapting to a more normal situation. This makes them re-roll.

Or maybe it's because the class isn't fun to play because people would rather have ZoS make them suffer a penance rather than analyze the class objectively.

dday3six · November 2015

Vangy wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

.......

Let me talk you through 99% of stam dk / stam sorc builds. (assuming they dont pvp and have caltrops or vigor)

For convenience im gona use DK; 2H/DW

Step 1: Rally buff must be up at all times.
Step 2: Make sure u Light attack>Unstable flame every 10.5 secs

*note: if you pvp and have caltrops u should use this as well. Dont throw this before tank takes aggro please. U will die.

Step 3: Wear a nose guard and mash ur face into WB x100 with attack weaving ( Ie tap left click then hold right click just as your guy starts using WB).

Step 4: Boss in exec range spam Executioner.

If ur build is a full QQ weapon damage build with 800 stam recovery occasionally cast obsidian shield/molten weapons to regen stam. And ofcourse use ultimate when you should.

Very VERY complicated yes? I mean come on u need to juggle rally, unstable flame and at the same time u have to mash face into wb. God who could ever do this?

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Stam Sorc isn't fully flushed out yet. ZOS has only just started supporting that build, so yeah it's options are very limited right now. Stamina DK on the other hand has a lot more flex because it doesn't need to slot as many class skills.

In dungeons where you don't need as much utility as a DPS, WB is not the best choice. In PVP or vMSA it's a better choice because builds need to slot more utility, and WB is the better option when space is more limited.

In group play, if your using WB as a Stam DK, frankly your doing it wrong...

The fact that you think a DPS' rotation is just about spamming one skill is a clear insight into your lack of understanding how to optimally DPS.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · November 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Maybe the low number of Dragon Knights is related to the fact that most Dragon Knights have lived through a year of being OP as *** and now have trouble adapting to a more normal situation. This makes them re-roll.

Or maybe it's because the class isn't fun to play because people would rather have ZoS make them suffer a penance rather than analyze the class objectively.

Don't say it's not fun it just makes more sense now Dragon Knights are still hella Tanky but you can hold block on ten people tab target and kill one at a time and spamming Shifting Standard a second before it ends to double the timer while Talon Spamming.

Maybe it's not fun that your Lava Whip can't bypass shields and Dodge Roll anymore.

You die to pure DPS Sorcerers and Nightblades that are straight up damage you are only half Tanky. You can outlast the DPS of builds like that a kill them slowly as a tank should have to. I did it on a 5h 2l magic and stamina Dragin Knight it was not hard at all.

Kelleton · November 2015

DKs heavy attacks do more damage than Wrecking Blow..spamming wrecking blow is a major dps loss, that's not including the loss you get for not having your DoTs ticking.

Forestd16b14_ESO · November 2015

TequilaFire wrote: »

All the sorcs shivering in their boots that DK might be restored.
Might even stop PvP from being Harry Potter land again.

PvP isn't harry potter land. Cause Harry Potter actually uses wands and staffs for there magic while in ESO every one uses duel daggers or swords for there magic.

Vangy · November 2015

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

.......

Let me talk you through 99% of stam dk / stam sorc builds. (assuming they dont pvp and have caltrops or vigor)

For convenience im gona use DK; 2H/DW

Step 1: Rally buff must be up at all times.
Step 2: Make sure u Light attack>Unstable flame every 10.5 secs

*note: if you pvp and have caltrops u should use this as well. Dont throw this before tank takes aggro please. U will die.

Step 3: Wear a nose guard and mash ur face into WB x100 with attack weaving ( Ie tap left click then hold right click just as your guy starts using WB).

Step 4: Boss in exec range spam Executioner.

If ur build is a full QQ weapon damage build with 800 stam recovery occasionally cast obsidian shield/molten weapons to regen stam. And ofcourse use ultimate when you should.

Very VERY complicated yes? I mean come on u need to juggle rally, unstable flame and at the same time u have to mash face into wb. God who could ever do this?

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Stam Sorc isn't fully flushed out yet. ZOS has only just started supporting that build, so yeah it's options are very limited right now. Stamina DK on the other hand has a lot more flex because it doesn't need to slot as many class skills.

In dungeons where you don't need as much utility as a DPS, WB is not the best choice. In PVP or vMSA it's a better choice because builds need to slot more utility, and WB is the better option when space is more limited.

In group play, if your using WB as a Stam DK, frankly your doing it wrong...

The fact that you think a DPS' rotation is just about spamming one skill is a clear insight into your lack of understanding how to optimally DPS.

Dks don't "need" to slot many class skills cos they don't have any that work in a stam build short of obsidian/molten and their ultimates. Since u clearly seem to know more please do enlighten me with your stam dk rotation. There really isn't much wiggle room for a stam dk other than going DW with spin2win for Aoe and rapid strikes for single t + maintaining ur caltrops and dots with valkyns(which got nerfed to oblivion). Please do tell me your complicated and amazing dps rotation so I may be enlightened.

Vangy · November 2015

Kelleton wrote: »

DKs heavy attacks do more damage than Wrecking Blow..spamming wrecking blow is a major dps loss, that's not including the loss you get for not having your DoTs ticking.

You do realise u can do both Wb and heavy attack spam right? Hit Wb after a light attack and then while casting Wb hold down right mouse. Let it go after heavy attack is fully charged while keeping molten up = u get the Wb and the empower lands with ur fully charged heavy attack with molten buff.... Holding right mouse isn't exactly a skill to me. So I still consider this Wb spam. And when I say spam Wb obviously u have to keep it burning breath and unstable flame with rally up.... It dosent mean mash face on Wb and stand in stupid or anything. It's just that for the most part ur going to be mashing ur face in Wb.

dday3six · November 2015

Vangy wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

.......

Let me talk you through 99% of stam dk / stam sorc builds. (assuming they dont pvp and have caltrops or vigor)

For convenience im gona use DK; 2H/DW

Step 1: Rally buff must be up at all times.
Step 2: Make sure u Light attack>Unstable flame every 10.5 secs

*note: if you pvp and have caltrops u should use this as well. Dont throw this before tank takes aggro please. U will die.

Step 3: Wear a nose guard and mash ur face into WB x100 with attack weaving ( Ie tap left click then hold right click just as your guy starts using WB).

Step 4: Boss in exec range spam Executioner.

If ur build is a full QQ weapon damage build with 800 stam recovery occasionally cast obsidian shield/molten weapons to regen stam. And ofcourse use ultimate when you should.

Very VERY complicated yes? I mean come on u need to juggle rally, unstable flame and at the same time u have to mash face into wb. God who could ever do this?

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Stam Sorc isn't fully flushed out yet. ZOS has only just started supporting that build, so yeah it's options are very limited right now. Stamina DK on the other hand has a lot more flex because it doesn't need to slot as many class skills.

In dungeons where you don't need as much utility as a DPS, WB is not the best choice. In PVP or vMSA it's a better choice because builds need to slot more utility, and WB is the better option when space is more limited.

In group play, if your using WB as a Stam DK, frankly your doing it wrong...

The fact that you think a DPS' rotation is just about spamming one skill is a clear insight into your lack of understanding how to optimally DPS.

Dks don't "need" to slot many class skills cos they don't have any that work in a stam build short of obsidian/molten and their ultimates. Since u clearly seem to know more please do enlighten me with your stam dk rotation. There really isn't much wiggle room for a stam dk other than going DW with spin2win for Aoe and rapid strikes for single t + maintaining ur caltrops and dots with valkyns(which got nerfed to oblivion). Please do tell me your complicated and amazing dps rotation so I may be enlightened.

Stam Sorc needs to slot class skills because of the Expert Mage passive boosting weapon. However ZOS has just started to support that build, and it's a clear example of a work in process.

In the first post you mention Unstable Flame, and then you say the only DK skills that work for stamina are Obsidian/Molten and Ults. Make up you mind, and while your in there try to come out with what Burning Breath can be used for since it's a conal AOE that debuffs more than one enemy at a time.

Clearly you didn't figure out what the best PVE rotation for DK was before IC, because if you had you'd know that the best rotation at present, which still uses many of the same skills.

Bluntly I don't feel like outlining the better Stam DK rotation to you because it's not going to change anything. You want DK buffed so you can be competitive and "feel" like a DK with as little thought as possible. This is about how you don't feel like a DK because you bar isn't filled with class skills applicable to a Stamina build. It has little to do with the current state of the class and it's effectiveness.

DK is out of date and needs to be updated. This doesn't mean it needs to be buffed per say, but rather tweaks and small changes are required to bring it inline with the game's current state.

Resipsa131 · November 2015

Beesting wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Try be specific when dealing problems otherwise it helps no one. How so? What needs to buff? etc...

Inhale / deep breath is pretty nice, i vote for that to be un-nerfed

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/100512/dark-talons-inhale-killed-for-pve-in-effort-to-balance-pvp

I mean it does not have to be as op as the nb siphon but you get my drift

What is so op about a siphoning NB build?

Vangy · November 2015

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

.......

Let me talk you through 99% of stam dk / stam sorc builds. (assuming they dont pvp and have caltrops or vigor)

For convenience im gona use DK; 2H/DW

Step 1: Rally buff must be up at all times.
Step 2: Make sure u Light attack>Unstable flame every 10.5 secs

*note: if you pvp and have caltrops u should use this as well. Dont throw this before tank takes aggro please. U will die.

Step 3: Wear a nose guard and mash ur face into WB x100 with attack weaving ( Ie tap left click then hold right click just as your guy starts using WB).

Step 4: Boss in exec range spam Executioner.

If ur build is a full QQ weapon damage build with 800 stam recovery occasionally cast obsidian shield/molten weapons to regen stam. And ofcourse use ultimate when you should.

Very VERY complicated yes? I mean come on u need to juggle rally, unstable flame and at the same time u have to mash face into wb. God who could ever do this?

You have no idea what you're talking about do you?

Stam Sorc isn't fully flushed out yet. ZOS has only just started supporting that build, so yeah it's options are very limited right now. Stamina DK on the other hand has a lot more flex because it doesn't need to slot as many class skills.

In dungeons where you don't need as much utility as a DPS, WB is not the best choice. In PVP or vMSA it's a better choice because builds need to slot more utility, and WB is the better option when space is more limited.

In group play, if your using WB as a Stam DK, frankly your doing it wrong...

The fact that you think a DPS' rotation is just about spamming one skill is a clear insight into your lack of understanding how to optimally DPS.

Dks don't "need" to slot many class skills cos they don't have any that work in a stam build short of obsidian/molten and their ultimates. Since u clearly seem to know more please do enlighten me with your stam dk rotation. There really isn't much wiggle room for a stam dk other than going DW with spin2win for Aoe and rapid strikes for single t + maintaining ur caltrops and dots with valkyns(which got nerfed to oblivion). Please do tell me your complicated and amazing dps rotation so I may be enlightened.

Stam Sorc needs to slot class skills because of the Expert Mage passive boosting weapon. However ZOS has just started to support that build, and it's a clear example of a work in process.

In the first post you mention Unstable Flame, and then you say the only DK skills that work for stamina are Obsidian/Molten and Ults. Make up you mind, and while your in there try to come out with what Burning Breath can be used for since it's a conal AOE that debuffs more than one enemy at a time.

Clearly you didn't figure out what the best PVE rotation for DK was before IC, because if you had you'd know that the best rotation at present, which still uses many of the same skills.

Bluntly I don't feel like outlining the better Stam DK rotation to you because it's not going to change anything. You want DK buffed so you can be competitive and "feel" like a DK with as little thought as possible. This is about how you don't feel like a DK because you bar isn't filled with class skills applicable to a Stamina build. It has little to do with the current state of the class and it's effectiveness.

DK is out of date and needs to be updated. This doesn't mean it needs to be buffed per say, but rather tweaks and small changes are required to bring it inline with the game's current state.

"Dk is out of date and needs to be updated". No one is asking for unstable flame to hit for 100000000 damage. The class needs to be changed somehow to stay relevant. Thank you for acknowledging this. That's all I was going for. Also if u look at dk guides like deltias etc, their rotation has almost been the same since 1.6 and every decent dk and their mothers knows it. Stack fire dots ( I don't like burning breath due to the same debuff that most tanks apply) and continue to spam either Wb or rapid strikes while rally is up. Nothing special. Nothing difficult. You seem to speak as if u have some godlike build that is so clearly better than mine but have yet to back it up with any solid facts. So obviously you are clueless here not me. Until you post a relevant build that is different from what I've listed above I'm going to go ahead and assume ur just talking a big game.... Or Youve managed to figure out an amazing build that even the min maxers like deltia and those on tamriel foundry haven't figured out. Bluntly I don't think thats likely. So time for u to serve me some pancakes instead of all that hot air ur flapping at me.

Barlthump · November 2015

To those Sorcs saying it's an L2P issue. I hope they make Shields crit-able and block shield stacking. Maybe make Shields only 10% of your max health. Force you people to stop going QQ dmg and put some points into health for survivability. Maybe then you'd get your heads out of you behind.

Barlthump · November 2015

dday3six wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

Pve:

NB: yo dawgs look at my leet dps! ( SA SA SA SA SA SA SA SA, killers blade x 5!)

Stam templar: pfft you got nothing on me brah ( jabjabjabajabajbajabajaabajab... Uhm sry I can't execute)

sorc: hahahaha u 2 newbs L2P ( random spell, random spell, FRAG, spell, FRAG, x 10 > mages wrath mages wrath Mages wrath)

Magicka dk: SILENCE NOOBS. Me is pve king. ( dot dot dot dot standard dot dot dot)

Stam dk: hey guys can I join! I can Wb too! And I have executioner! Please?

Everyone else: NO GTFO u noob. I can just get an npc to use Wb and executioner and they pull same dps as you.

EDIT:

Later that day:

stam dk and stam sorc hook up in some shady den to smoke some skooma and waste away cos they has no friends.

Was there a point to this non-sense? To put up solid DPS numbers with any builds it's a lot more than just spamming skills.

It's a rotation to maintain buffs, dots, ac's, and weaves. Take any builds into current content that was made with VR16 in mind like Vet WGT, IP, or MSA and see if just spamming the same skill over and over is enough to see you through.

Posts like this and their attempts to be cute or funny are a large part of the problem...

LOLOLOL look at this guy. I personally play with vangy and the number of rotations he uses to make his stam dk viable is insane. Compared to Sorcs who just stack Shields and Templars that some jabs. Hell I even agree on the nightblade part. vMSA is supposed to be hard for everyone, not just stam classes. Stam classes have access to 2 heals. How do you expect them to clear vMSA without going into a gold deficit. I've lost all my soul gems, all my repair kits and close to 10000 gold on repairs and I can't get past stage 3 cause of the stranglers bug. So please tell me (I know your a sorc) how to do it? Get off your high horse and maybe not use shield stacking and clear the arena. Then come talk to us