Xsorus wrote: »

Until they somehow balance the fact that magical shield spammers are easier then melee stamina users, and get the same reward; there will be no point in playing that setup. Hell there are just 9 vet maelstrom DKs right now on the us servers, and like 60+ sorcs.. There is really no excuse for releasing content with that number disparity

iliatha wrote: »

Katinas wrote: »

[*] Save feature is a must. Please allow us to save progress and continue the next day or the next time you log in.

Why should a feature get implemented that allows you to complete the arena no matter how long you have to play ? If the runs take too long you could just try to get better at the stages that cost you the most time.

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

Some fixes are good, some are too much, we need to keep this instance HARD and by hard I mean, you have to be proud of yourself when you get you're shiny a*s out of there with you bound on pickup loot

Since when does insane basic attack damage that lack true skillful counter play = hard? I fail to see how spawning 3 archers all across from each other all hitting for 7-8k with 20k armor is "hard"? This whole instance is filled with so much artificial difficulty it's baffling. When we "hardcore" players asked for difficult content, we meant mechanic and technical based game play that rewarded quick reactions and tactic development. There is nothing tactical about being forced to spam 20-30k damage shields, or dodge roll until your stamina is dry, just so you can survive common mob types. The big enemies like Lurchers/Centurions/Wamasu totally make sense since they're hulking enemies that should be treated with caution, but the fact that I can die faster to some nameless archer argonian with a bow instead of the final boss himself makes no sense.

To all of these people saying there are "valid" counter play mechanics in game, please, be real. Get off your sorc or caster build with damage shields and free self healing, and go put on some swords and try it as a stamina build. I would love for you to come back to a vMA topic and still sit there and agree that it's balanced. When Zenimax was discussing vMA leaderboards as a showcase to who was the best at their class, I think they meant who was the best at abusing skilless mechanics like shield stacking or out ranging almost the entirety of fights. This instance has finally begun to show people the issues stamina builds still have from launch, despite what all of the PvP community whines about with them. Hopefully Zenimax has been watching and listening to the players who actually have the skill to go in with stamina and complete this place, so that they can start fitting in meaningful fixes for this alleged class/combat balance update we're getting. Oh and of course to see how terrible their coding has been in some of these fights, like the shields or mushrooms of stage 7.

And before I hear L2P, I've already cleared vMA multiple times on a stamina and caster nightblade. I cleared in less than half the time on my fresh caster with half my passives missing and mismatched gear, than I did my stamblade with over 200 days of play time.

Zinaroth wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Alcast seems to be doing fine. Much better than me on my Magicka Templar atleast.

As far as I can tell, it is easier on a Stamplar because you can easily get enough dps with WW to push the boss hard enough to only have to deal with one Daedroth toward the end, which you can spectral explosion. Worst case scenario the defense buff will let you handle one Daedroth pretty easily.

Doesn't mean the crematorial guards doesn't need a fix. This strategy also requires you to have WW ready at the start of the boss fight, which isn't feasible when you just had the Ash Titan in the wave before, where you also need WW to keep up.

Alcast is also a beast and a terrific player, I dare you to replicate what he achieves in this game.

Overall you're better off with a Magicka Templar in there, but I do agree that stamina in WW has much more burst potential which makes you able to cheese some elements in the arena, it isn't as easy to pull off as it looks though.

timidobserver wrote: »

I do not agree with many of the OPs points, but yours are pretty reasonable. I am all for bug fixes, but I am wary of direct nerfs to the difficulty. I am more in favor of class/skill balancing as opposed to nerfing the difficulty of the arena itself.

It's fair enough that you don't disagree, but with all due respect, atleast I suggested some solutions, Alcast just listed some things.

Both me and Alcast share a big grudge against the crematorial guards though, so if you can't agree on at least that point then you're also disagreeing with him and every other person playing stamina in there I talked to.

Tnoviaub17_ESO wrote: »

It's hard to take people seriously when they have terrible grammar. HOWEVER, i do not disagree.

Accentuating words by writing them in capital letters might be grammatically wrong, but so is writing "I" with a non-capital letter. Are you having a hard time taking yourself seriously aswell?

Dymence wrote: »

I don't think a save feature should be implemented either. Veteran dragonstar arena doesn't have one. Why should this have one? The lack of a save feature is the way the difficulty gets artificially boosted, and I don't think this is a bad thing. Like I said, think vet DSA, think trials with limited souls, etc. I also know vet MSA also has souls, but I don't think you'll ever burn through all 500 souls even after spending roughly 10 hours in there. If a save feature is to be introduced, the amount of souls should be reduced to keep an artificial feeling of difficulty IMO. I'd say from 500 souls to 100 souls, maybe even lower.

I appreciate and respect that you were the first once to complete the arena, well done.

That being said I completely disagree that the difficulty should be artificially boosted through requiring a player to sit in front of his PC four many hours at a time for his first clear. Difficulty gets artificially boosted through competing on the leaderboards, something a save feature would disallow you do to in my opinion, since the timer should tick on even when you're out of game or out of the arena.

I am all for reducing the amount of souls you have in there. 500 is way too much, 100 is a bit too little in my opinion though, eventhough my first clear was with 70 souls spent, I think 200 or 150 would be a nice amount.

To all the people against a save feature:

Why are you against it? It would just give casual players a chance to finish the arena, or atleast advance, under the penalty that their time is going to be aweful which reflects on their score. It won't hurt the difficulty, unless you include the time requirement as a difficulty aswell, which would be ridiculous. People shouldn't be excluded from content because they can't play more than one hour at a time. Every Trial in this game so far has been completable within an hour so there never was much need for this. Raids in other MMOs that take this long to complete have save features in place and weekly raid resets. Just means more people are able to enjoy the content without having to kill the first bosses over and over again trying to do it faster and faster just to allow them to get a couple of tries in on the next boss. People with kids can probably fully relate to the fact that sometimes stuff just comes up and you have to leave the PC for any amount of time that will get you kicked from the server.

I will dare to argue that people who are against this are only opposing it out of self-interest. They want less people completing the content so they can gloat more about their own accomplishments. Look past your own interests!

No hate intended towards you in particular Dymence, just adressing the issue in general.

Waseem wrote: »

the developers - as its seem- thought that average player will finish veteran maelstrom arena in 2 hours, not 8-9 hours

Alcast wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

MLRPZ wrote: »

Some fixes are good, some are too much, we need to keep this instance HARD and by hard I mean, you have to be proud of yourself when you get you're shiny a*s out of there with you bound on pickup loot

Since when does insane basic attack damage that lack true skillful counter play = hard? I fail to see how spawning 3 archers all across from each other all hitting for 7-8k with 20k armor is "hard"? This whole instance is filled with so much artificial difficulty it's baffling. When we "hardcore" players asked for difficult content, we meant mechanic and technical based game play that rewarded quick reactions and tactic development. There is nothing tactical about being forced to spam 20-30k damage shields, or dodge roll until your stamina is dry, just so you can survive common mob types. The big enemies like Lurchers/Centurions/Wamasu totally make sense since they're hulking enemies that should be treated with caution, but the fact that I can die faster to some nameless archer argonian with a bow instead of the final boss himself makes no sense.

To all of these people saying there are "valid" counter play mechanics in game, please, be real. Get off your sorc or caster build with damage shields and free self healing, and go put on some swords and try it as a stamina build. I would love for you to come back to a vMA topic and still sit there and agree that it's balanced. When Zenimax was discussing vMA leaderboards as a showcase to who was the best at their class, I think they meant who was the best at abusing skilless mechanics like shield stacking or out ranging almost the entirety of fights. This instance has finally begun to show people the issues stamina builds still have from launch, despite what all of the PvP community whines about with them. Hopefully Zenimax has been watching and listening to the players who actually have the skill to go in with stamina and complete this place, so that they can start fitting in meaningful fixes for this alleged class/combat balance update we're getting. Oh and of course to see how terrible their coding has been in some of these fights, like the shields or mushrooms of stage 7.

And before I hear L2P, I've already cleared vMA multiple times on a stamina and caster nightblade. I cleared in less than half the time on my fresh caster with half my passives missing and mismatched gear, than I did my stamblade with over 200 days of play time.

Stamina NB is very decent in Arena. I can do runs with like 2 deaths bc NB has such OP skills....even on stam. Only *** that kills me is bugged stuff like bubble stage 7 + pison RNGesus and stage 6 invisible stuff after boss is dead.

However, all other stam classes are quite screwed.
idtched my templar for now till I am done farming the *** out of vMA with Stam NB.