If any one of the devs actually PLAYED a NB in this game, they would have seen this bug within 30 minutes of playtime. Hence my statement that they didn't actually play their own game. I stand by that until proven otherwise.

They should have a dev personally responsible for each player class. That's all they should be playing, including variations, and they should be playing regularly. They should have end game characters on the live servers for both PC/Mac and consoles. No playing favorites with regards to race/class.

If they are actually walking that mile in OUR shoes, then a lot more of this really stupid stuff wouldn't happen, and it surely wouldn't be hitting the live servers as often as it does now.

Islyn wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

I have a feeling that part of the problem is that they don't actually play their own damned game. That would explain the *** poor QA we see on a daily basis. Well that, and maybe we should start a Go Fund Me to help send their coders to some remedial math classes...

Unfortunately your "feeling" would be quite off the mark. They do test this stuff but unexpected bugs can still occur. That of course is why they appreciate these kinds of reports and feedback. It's a huge game and they cannot keep tabs on every single digit of coding at all times... Every coder overlooks one thing or another at times, this I can personally vouch for.

NO you can personally vouch that YOU overlook one thing or another at times.

Please stop defending this stuff. It's starting to look like you're being paid to do it.

You don't need to be paid to do what is right. Zenimax is constantly unjustly bashed for completely normal issues that come up during a patch or update when in hindsight it is honestly insignificant to the work they perform. I just happen to know that it all comes with the territory of being a coder because I myself have dabbled in coding. Of course the coding they do is far more complex and issues can just materialize out of nowhere at any given time but considering how few errors occur for such a huge game, especially compared to a game like TESV: Skyrim, I think Zenimax does a bang up job! Is it my fault not many can see this? Perhaps you should try to see things from a more positive perspective before you resort to mindless bashing.

sadownik wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

I have a feeling that part of the problem is that they don't actually play their own damned game. That would explain the *** poor QA we see on a daily basis. Well that, and maybe we should start a Go Fund Me to help send their coders to some remedial math classes...

Unfortunately your "feeling" would be quite off the mark. They do test this stuff but unexpected bugs can still occur. That of course is why they appreciate these kinds of reports and feedback. It's a huge game and they cannot keep tabs on every single digit of coding at all times... Every coder overlooks one thing or another at times, this I can personally vouch for.

Unfortunately your feeling of high esteem for Z. is quite off the mark. A week for fixing 1 game breaking bug just to introduce at least 1 more is the incompetence of magnitude that i have seen just in niche or indie products, not in multi million AAA game.

You misunderstand. Zenimax is not perfect, nor is anyone else. Mistakes are always made and mistakes are not necessarily intentional, yet people criticize them first chance they get anyway. So I hold Zenimax in high esteem because I don't bash them the moment something goes wrong because I believe they are supposed to be perfect and never get anything wrong? Tell ya what, palsy: You go make and operate such a huge game, never make a single mistake, and then we'll talk ok? I don't criticize Zenimax because I know they didn't do this stuff on purpose and will fix it when they know about it and can, but unfortunately there are many who are quick to judge without even considering their position...

Im sorry if you took it personally, i really am. But i could not notice that you used only 2 of holy trinity of arguments used by Z. admirers in such a situations.

1. bugs happen in every mmo (check)
2. you need to be an experienced coder to judge the quality of product (check)
3. ESO has bugs? Haha look at WOW at its release! (yeah you forgot that one)

I don't look at Zenimax for Zenimax, I look at Zenimax the same way I do any other game-developing company. On a general note they are not doing a bad job. I've played many an MMO to know when a company is messing up or doing great. Also I did not take it personally lol

One thing that makes me aware Zenimax are actually doing something right is how they don't let people pay to win. I have played too many MMOs that have that crap and that alone gives me a generally positive outlook on them. Coding is one thing, but their actual decisions are another and the latter is what I tend to defend when the former is what they get criticized for just because "issues arise".

Islyn wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

I have a feeling that part of the problem is that they don't actually play their own damned game. That would explain the *** poor QA we see on a daily basis. Well that, and maybe we should start a Go Fund Me to help send their coders to some remedial math classes...

Unfortunately your "feeling" would be quite off the mark. They do test this stuff but unexpected bugs can still occur. That of course is why they appreciate these kinds of reports and feedback. It's a huge game and they cannot keep tabs on every single digit of coding at all times... Every coder overlooks one thing or another at times, this I can personally vouch for.

Unfortunately your feeling of high esteem for Z. is quite off the mark. A week for fixing 1 game breaking bug just to introduce at least 1 more is the incompetence of magnitude that i have seen just in niche or indie products, not in multi million AAA game.

You misunderstand. Zenimax is not perfect, nor is anyone else. Mistakes are always made and mistakes are not necessarily intentional, yet people criticize them first chance they get anyway. So I hold Zenimax in high esteem because I don't bash them the moment something goes wrong because I believe they are supposed to be perfect and never get anything wrong? Tell ya what, palsy: You go make and operate such a huge game, never make a single mistake, and then we'll talk ok? I don't criticize Zenimax because I know they didn't do this stuff on purpose and will fix it when they know about it and can, but unfortunately there are many who are quick to judge without even considering their position...

I am sorry but actually YOU misunderstand. You've really just not been here long enough to judge how those of us who have feel about it.

We pay them. That's our part. They should do the job right. That's their part.

You say 'something' goes wrong like it's rare.

No one is criticising ZOS for making ONE mistake. Or Some. Or Many. Or Several. We are criticising the fact that every fix leads to more issues.

I really don't want to argue with you but seriously google ESO and bugs and you can see that it's not like anyone here is just 'Being Mean' to ZOS.

I promise.

I am fully aware of how miscontent PC Players are with Zenimax. However, I also understand much of their positioning. Just because something they do doesn't sit well with some or even many at most does not necessarily mean they are screw-ups. Yes they make mistakes at times but so does everyone but most of it is not done on purpose, and some of it was an underestimation that caused it. Can't always predict 100% how things will turn out until you give it a try ya know!

Far as I'm concerned they are doing their job right. If they weren't they wouldn't do what they can to make sure every issue is resolved.

Not at all. Things are always going wrong one way or another. After all, there is no such thing as the perfect MMO.

Of course more issues will arise from fixes. That's almost a law in MMOs lol but it isn't their fault so I do not blame them for it. Eventually, though, they will produce a fix without repercussions.

I am well aware of how many bugs the game has at the moment but I honestly am not bothered by it because it still isn't as bad as Skyrim was. I enjoyed playing Skyrim, I really did, but the game was just plain unplayable! ESO on the other hand is playable so I am just thankful for that rather than spend all my time worrying about every little thing that goes wrong. Are there issues that annoy me? Of course! Do I wish they'd get fixed immediately? Absolutely! Do I plan to gripe at Zenimax for it not being done so? No, because I know they have more than just that to work out and I will wait patiently for the fix. In fact one day when this game is more complete we will all look back at these times and be like "I remember when ESO was a total mess compared to now..." and just laugh lol

Alucardo wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

You don't need to be paid to do what is right. Zenimax is constantly unjustly bashed for completely normal issues that come up during a patch or update when in hindsight it is honestly insignificant to the work they perform.

Unjustly? How does basic crap like this pass QA testing? Why do players find this stuff out almost immediately, but the game developers let it slide?
I can understand really odd bugs getting through that are hard to replicate, but we're talking about nearly stupid amounts of healing from a single skill, and instant stamina regeneration in the last patch. It's becoming absurd. These are GAME BREAKING problems, and I have no idea how they don't notice this before shipping it. Stop defending them you idiot and let them take some responsibility.

It's like I said everyone makes mistakes lol and it is also possible this issue did not arise until it was actually sent through. Zenimax is composed of a handful of people whereas the playerbase is thousands, so what they may miss can easily be spotted by the players. It may sound contradictory or even wrong to say this but perhaps Zenimax trusts the playerbase enough to catch things they do not and thus simply push it on through so they can move on to the next project?

There goes the leader boards for vMSA again... Now i know why couple of my NB friends who couldnt get past round 1 now have cleared it -_-"

Can i has my DK immortal buffs nao pls?

Alucardo wrote: »

Step 1: Does it compile? Yes? OK, we're good to go.
Step 2: Ship it.
Step 3: Go to bar and ignore any problems that arise after deployment.

Sadly, this is probably the case

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

sadownik wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

I have a feeling that part of the problem is that they don't actually play their own damned game. That would explain the *** poor QA we see on a daily basis. Well that, and maybe we should start a Go Fund Me to help send their coders to some remedial math classes...

Unfortunately your "feeling" would be quite off the mark. They do test this stuff but unexpected bugs can still occur. That of course is why they appreciate these kinds of reports and feedback. It's a huge game and they cannot keep tabs on every single digit of coding at all times... Every coder overlooks one thing or another at times, this I can personally vouch for.

Unfortunately your feeling of high esteem for Z. is quite off the mark. A week for fixing 1 game breaking bug just to introduce at least 1 more is the incompetence of magnitude that i have seen just in niche or indie products, not in multi million AAA game.

You misunderstand. Zenimax is not perfect, nor is anyone else. Mistakes are always made and mistakes are not necessarily intentional, yet people criticize them first chance they get anyway. So I hold Zenimax in high esteem because I don't bash them the moment something goes wrong because I believe they are supposed to be perfect and never get anything wrong? Tell ya what, palsy: You go make and operate such a huge game, never make a single mistake, and then we'll talk ok? I don't criticize Zenimax because I know they didn't do this stuff on purpose and will fix it when they know about it and can, but unfortunately there are many who are quick to judge without even considering their position...

None of that made any sense.

I can honestly only respond to that with a head-hang. I will try to simplify my post though:

No one ever does something 100% perfectly. *** happens, and it gets fixed along the way, but it in no way means the devs are incompetent. Before you can truly judge them you must know what it is they do and how hard they work. Sadly, some people just don't care and judge them anyway.

Better?

Islyn wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

I have a feeling that part of the problem is that they don't actually play their own damned game. That would explain the *** poor QA we see on a daily basis. Well that, and maybe we should start a Go Fund Me to help send their coders to some remedial math classes...

Unfortunately your "feeling" would be quite off the mark. They do test this stuff but unexpected bugs can still occur. That of course is why they appreciate these kinds of reports and feedback. It's a huge game and they cannot keep tabs on every single digit of coding at all times... Every coder overlooks one thing or another at times, this I can personally vouch for.

NO you can personally vouch that YOU overlook one thing or another at times.

Please stop defending this stuff. It's starting to look like you're being paid to do it.

You don't need to be paid to do what is right. Zenimax is constantly unjustly bashed for completely normal issues that come up during a patch or update when in hindsight it is honestly insignificant to the work they perform. I just happen to know that it all comes with the territory of being a coder because I myself have dabbled in coding. Of course the coding they do is far more complex and issues can just materialize out of nowhere at any given time but considering how few errors occur for such a huge game, especially compared to a game like TESV: Skyrim, I think Zenimax does a bang up job! Is it my fault not many can see this?

Perhaps you should try to see things from a more positive perspective before you resort to mindless bashing.

The moment you can show me where I mindlessly bashed anything I'll consider it further but till then: If I made 1/10 of the mistakes I come across here I would be fired and my rep would be in the toilet.

I understand it is a HUGE PROJECT but there is a reason why we pay a Huge Stellar Company to do it, and not Billy Jo Jim Bob in his Dad's Garage.

I am quite mindful with my rare complaints and frustration - especially when after many months of saying the same thing, so many of us voice frustration.

Just look around the forums and you can see how many times many issues were laid out even on PTS and still made it to live.

No I don't want to bash ZOS obviously. I just want them to seriously stop doing weird things and for them to take their customers seriously both here and in customer support.

For instance - I was supposed to hear from zos customer service via Telephone at 12:00 GMT for 2 days in a row now, and nothing.

That doesn't inspire me to keep throwing £9/month their way really.

just got a reply a fix is being worked on to roll out as soon as they can

Islyn wrote: »

I just want them to seriously stop doing weird things and for them to take their customers seriously both here and in customer support.

They don't do it on purpose though, but I understand how you feel. On the bright side things like this can be amusing until they get fixed lol which does actually happen quite soon depending on the magnitude of any potential game breaking and how soon they can find a fix for it. I know there are some that were not so soon but they did eventually get fixed anyway did they not?

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Incoming: "We understand that blah blah... But keep things civil" Post.

Well I'd say you just saved them having to do that, but they might do it anyway lol

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Incoming: "We understand that blah blah... But keep things civil" Post.

ooh I hope we're not now counting honesty as rudeness. O.O I wasn't rude - not intentionally, honest. xD

Alucardo wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

I just want them to seriously stop doing weird things

Don't know why, but this made me lol irl.

xD I'll be here all week! Totally stole that image and will use it gratuitously where applicable.

Seriously though, it wasn't out of the blue? *Changed all this stuff because performance*

I could hear peoples' eyebrows shoot into their hairlines from here.

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

PaddingtonBear wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Islyn wrote: »

I just want them to seriously stop doing weird things and for them to take their customers seriously both here and in customer support.

They don't do it on purpose though, but I understand how you feel. On the bright side things like this can be amusing until they get fixed lol which does actually happen quite soon depending on the magnitude of any potential game breaking and how soon they can find a fix for it. I know there are some that were not so soon but they did eventually get fixed anyway did they not?

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Incoming: "We understand that blah blah... But keep things civil" Post.

Well I'd say you just saved them having to do that, but they might do it anyway lol

Its not amusing when people exploit it and the next day u see vmsa leaderboards full of nbs in top 100.

I like eso I really want to but the bugs are just ...

Well it's more of a "get your kicks out of it and rob as many people's telvar stones and farm vMA before its fixed" kind of amusement because usually there is a rollback or a wipe of some sort to rectify the "damage done" lol but yeah I feel ya too many exploit abusers in ESO as is.

Fixed the level of amusement for you...

Clearly you did not read what else I posted otherwise you would not have done something so uncalled for. You also did a terrible job at editing because you snipped some of the point I am referring to.

Vyle_Byte wrote: »

If you haven't been here for the entirety of ESO's life (or just a long azz time) then please refrain from telling those who HAVE been here for a year and a half of dealing with ZOS that they need to look at things differently or in a more positive manner.

You don't know us.
You haven't been through it with us.
You'd be jaded too if you were us.

Sorry but honestly that is grating on my nerves.

Ofc no one expects ZOS to be perfect. But you have no idea how frustrating it can be to be a consumer of this product. ( I believe I got that line from one awesome @Joy_Division) Why? Because you haven't been here long enough to have dealt with the incompetence.

/rant

Zos, fix the damn exploits. Bugs be damned, exploits ruin a game.

We don't blame anyone for having some bottled up conflicts with Zenimax for what you have seen in your earlier days of the PC version but things are MUCH better since then and will only continue to get better. That is all we imply, nothing more. Also if I hated a company for doing a poor job I would not play any of their games no matter what lol

As a Magicka DK I can't even go in Cyrodiil as it is, and that's on Xbox where people aren't as talented in MMORPG PvP...

So if this hits Xbox.. I don't think I'll be going in to PvP any time soon that's for sure.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

We don't blame anyone for having some bottled up conflicts with Zenimax for what you have seen in your earlier days of the PC version but things are MUCH better since then and will only continue to get better. That is all we imply, nothing more. Also if I hated a company for doing a poor job I would not play any of their games no matter what lol

LOL! Oh, really?

Were you here for that? Things are NOT much better, they are worse. Just because we have new content doesn't mean things are much better. The state of the game isn't better than it was. Not only do we have the same bugs we've had for a year and a half, we have more added on top of that. PVP is terrible compared to what it was at launch, lag is worse than it was. Where oh where, kind sir, do you see that things are MUCH better? I'm sorry but in this case, you don't know what your talking about.

Also, I never said I hate the company. Disappointed in them? Hell yes. They made a fantastic game, they just do a pyss poor job of upkeep.

Sorry for derailing your thread here, not my intention.

Again, we just want our game to work properly. Please fix this nonsense with a hotfix, we shouldn't have to wait til the next maintenance for something this game breaking.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

kayPOW wrote: »

As a Magicka DK I can't even go in Cyrodiil as it is, and that's on Xbox where people aren't as talented in MMORPG PvP...

So if this hits Xbox.. I don't think I'll be going in to PvP any time soon that's for sure.

They usually have this stuff fixed by the time it hits consoles, so no worries!

Not sure this is the case tbh, the last update will still be going through console validation procedures, for them to put another patch out means starting that process again, I'm pretty sure they can't just bung it on top of the ongoing one.

As demonstrated by this episode, fixing/changing a chunk of code can have greatly unforeseen effects, and sony/microsoft are very reluctant to put their networks at potential risk in order to rush through a bug fix, even if that bug leads to game exploits.

Until the patch notes come out, my feeling is we'll get the Orsinium update on consoles sans any patches that have hit the Pc since then, hopefully including this one (even tho I have a mag nb lol)