How To Fix Cloak For Everyone

imredneckson · October 2015

Why not just learn to counter a NB's cloak its not hard

Sorcs - streak, lightning flood, velocious curse, lightning form, daedric mines, and encase
DKs - flames of oblivion, volatile armor, talons, and eruption
NBs - path of darkness, mass hysteria, sap essence, mark target
Templars - puncturing sweep, blazing speak, blazing shield, backlash

Everyone has a counter though most don't want to admit it and if you don't like these options because they cost magicka then here are a few stamina options

Steel tornado, volley, arrow spray, cleave, spiked bone shield, caltrops

a few other magicka options

magelight, scorching flare, impulse, blockade

if you still dont like your options buy detect pots yes they cost money if you want to cry and say you cant afford it GO QUEST FOR AN HOUR OR TWO.

cloak is fine the way it is

Cody · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

They just need the old streak treatment. 50% extra cost if cast again within 4 seconds. that's more than fair, considering people still complained about streak being spammable before IC

if that happens, stamblades will not be able to effectively use cloak. its manablades spamming cloak, not stamblades. do not punish stamblades for something a mana blade does. I personally like the OPs fix; I myself don't think cloak needs any "fix" but as long as I can still use it with a stamblade I can live with the change. I have played in worse scenarios.

That doesn't matter. They chose a STAMINA build. Our stamina sorcerers still have to deal with the Streak nerf.

and i bet most stamina sorcs can't use it because of that ridiculous nerf; hence my point. BE was an ability perfectly counterable; yet people were unwilling to use its counters, and now its a shadow of its former self, with only mana sorcs able to make extended use of it. stamblades will end up in the same ridiculous situation if cloak gets the BE treatment. I feel for the sorc class, i really do. I played a sorc for a good duration back in 1.5/1.6 times, but just because sorcs suffered this fate does not justify NBs suffering the same.

DannyLV702 · October 2015

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

They just need the old streak treatment. 50% extra cost if cast again within 4 seconds. that's more than fair, considering people still complained about streak being spammable before IC

if that happens, stamblades will not be able to effectively use cloak. its manablades spamming cloak, not stamblades. do not punish stamblades for something a mana blade does. I personally like the OPs fix; I myself don't think cloak needs any "fix" but as long as I can still use it with a stamblade I can live with the change. I have played in worse scenarios.

That doesn't matter. They chose a STAMINA build. Our stamina sorcerers still have to deal with the Streak nerf.

i could care less what happened to sorcerers, we are talking about nightblades, not sorcerers. I have already had that discussion with someone else, I'm not having it again.

That response was about NBs. It was a comparison on why it's fair towards stamblades. Not hard to understand the context...

Cody · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I got way off track. I don't even want a nerf for cloak. I want a reliable counter

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

THIS. And the reason they will win, is because the majority of players are NBs. It's not hard to figure out that being invisible is a really comfortable place to be. But with stealth being probably the most important thing in pvp, it's ridiculous

NB is a class that is supposed to rely on stealth and evasion. It is what it was designed to be. The description for NB on the TESO site even says - "Combine deadly mastery of stealth with insidious siphoning and shadow magic to eliminate your marks with ruthless efficiency. "

You guys want the class to be something other than what it is.

I don't want to take away your cloak. you'll still have it, and still be able to spam it with my idea of a "nerf". Just because you're supposed to be evasive, doesn't mean you should be able to be invisible without penalty

Being able to only cloak a few times in a row needs a penalty?

My sorc was able to streak 15-20 times in a row. If you need more cloaks than that in a row then there's something wrong with your play style to begin with...

Stamblades can only cloak a few times, and their play style is just fine. Most Stamblades don't have any points in magicka, because they are a stamina build and hybrid builds don't work well. Maybe the penalty you seek should only apply to builds that have invested points into magicka?

I don't want to nerf anyone. I want a useful counter.

There are counters!

radiant mage light, AOE attacks, caltrops, flare, detection potions, gap closing while the player is using cloak, and many others. Look them up:) I myself have used them or have had them used against me to great effect.

DannyLV702 · October 2015

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I got way off track. I don't even want a nerf for cloak. I want a reliable counter

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

THIS. And the reason they will win, is because the majority of players are NBs. It's not hard to figure out that being invisible is a really comfortable place to be. But with stealth being probably the most important thing in pvp, it's ridiculous

NB is a class that is supposed to rely on stealth and evasion. It is what it was designed to be. The description for NB on the TESO site even says - "Combine deadly mastery of stealth with insidious siphoning and shadow magic to eliminate your marks with ruthless efficiency. "

You guys want the class to be something other than what it is.

I don't want to take away your cloak. you'll still have it, and still be able to spam it with my idea of a "nerf". Just because you're supposed to be evasive, doesn't mean you should be able to be invisible without penalty

Being able to only cloak a few times in a row needs a penalty?

My sorc was able to streak 15-20 times in a row. If you need more cloaks than that in a row then there's something wrong with your play style to begin with...

Stamblades can only cloak a few times, and their play style is just fine. Most Stamblades don't have any points in magicka, because they are a stamina build and hybrid builds don't work well. Maybe the penalty you seek should only apply to builds that have invested points into magicka?

I don't want to nerf anyone. I want a useful counter.

There are counters! radiant mage light, AOE attacks, caltrops, flare, detection potions, gap closing while the player is using cloak, and many others. Look them up:) I myself have used them or have had them used against me to great effect.

The only counter that is effective against cloak is Mark Target. Having a thousand counters isn't any good when they all suck. You can even read about them in threads.

Infinite12 · October 2015

Cody wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

Cloak is the NB escape/defense skill all rolled into one. Was hardened ward nerfed alongside streak? No. And it shouldn't be either.

Not everyone QQ'd about Streak. I didn't even have a forum account back then and if I did I wouldn't have called for streak nerfs. Although I would have been very vocal about the sharpened and nirnhoned bugs.

I know the desire for revenge comes instinctively, but at least try to be a little less transparent in your reasoning for a cloak nerf.

Its no revenge im just comparing to so called escape moves. I dont call for a major nerf just said everyone wanted a streak nerf and now suddenly everyone is fine with cloak. I dont mind cloak in combat i have no problems with it. But what gets on my nerves is that a NB can end the fight at their will when they cant win. And good luck to try to find a decent NB who knows how to play.
Thats why i think a streak treatment would work well. To prevent cloak spam.

i have a v16 nb btw but he retired / only crafts gear

not everyone wanted a streak nerf. quite a few of us on the forums hated the very idea, and im sure many people in the rest of the community did too; ZOS just chose to listen to the people calling for nerfs; that's it. There is no secret agenda; I myself WANT streak to be un-nerfed, as there are plenty of ways of beat it.

and tbh, if streak was made useless, sorcs would still have hardened ward. What would a NB have if cloak was made useless? A situational teleport? I highly doubt you are going to be able to use it for every single fight, even if you are a ranged player. its too situational in my opinion; regardless, its not a suitable replacement for cloak. It is roughly a one time use teleport that is honestly not worth the space on the bar if you do not plan to endlessly kite your enemy the entire battle or run away every single fight.

"NBs can end the fight at will" so can sorcerers with Bolt Escape, yet I don't see you complaining about it.

Bolt escape is still a problem. When sorcs are losing they bolt escape and 9 out of 10 times they're gone. And could you name a few of the plenty of abilities to combat bolt escape please. The only one I know of is critical rush and that's not that effective against bolt escape,

DannyLV702 · October 2015

Meh. I'll deal with cloak. DKs and templars still need major buffs though....

Infinite12 · October 2015

Cloak really isn't that hard to deal with. It's pretty easy on my dk. And I don't know that dk's need a buff, they just need to undo the blocking nerf for sure. And templars, I don't know if they need a buff. Admittedly, I've never played as a templar but from what I've heard they do pretty good damage and heal through a lot of damage

Barlthump · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

[

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

THIS. And the reason they will win, is because the majority of players are NBs. It's not hard to figure out that being invisible is a really comfortable place to be. But with stealth being probably the most important thing in pvp, it's ridiculous

NB is a class that is supposed to rely on stealth and evasion. It is what it was designed to be. The description for NB on the TESO site even says - "Combine deadly mastery of stealth with insidious siphoning and shadow magic to eliminate your marks with ruthless efficiency. "

You guys want the class to be something other than what it is.

I don't want to take away your cloak. you'll still have it, and still be able to spam it with my idea of a "nerf". Just because you're supposed to be evasive, doesn't mean you should be able to be invisible without penalty

Being able to only cloak a few times in a row needs a penalty?

My sorc was able to streak 15-20 times in a row. If you need more cloaks than that in a row then there's something wrong with your play style to begin with...

If you need to streak 15-20 times in a row maybe you should think about why you need to run away so damn much

When did i say i need that many? I'm doing ok with the 5-7 streaks i've been nerfed down to, i use them offensively. Next question please.

To the idiot that posted this. With the nerf my 3 time cloak will become a 1 time cloak. I hope they put a 3 sec cd on streak and watch you idiots burn

Barlthump · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Barlthump wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

Classic whine QQ of a sorc, I got nerf ed to balance the game? Now everyone needs a nerf so I can be OP again. Streak is a 100% escape skill which can't be countered. While cloak has a chance of escape. Why not just slot an impulse or magelight on your bar and watch how nightblades from cloak run away? Oh wait you wanna run that pure single target build on both bars so you can be OP right? It's alright, I understand. When this nerf hits stam blades are all going to just die off slowly in PvP. Or maybe not cause we will get better as compared to Sorcs like you.

You're one of those NBs who has never even touched one of these "counters", yet you speak about them lol

That's cause players like you don't slot AOE skills or use detect pots. Thanks mate you're the reason why I can run away easily

Barlthump · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I got way off track. I don't even want a nerf for cloak. I want a reliable counter

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

THIS. And the reason they will win, is because the majority of players are NBs. It's not hard to figure out that being invisible is a really comfortable place to be. But with stealth being probably the most important thing in pvp, it's ridiculous

NB is a class that is supposed to rely on stealth and evasion. It is what it was designed to be. The description for NB on the TESO site even says - "Combine deadly mastery of stealth with insidious siphoning and shadow magic to eliminate your marks with ruthless efficiency. "

You guys want the class to be something other than what it is.

I don't want to take away your cloak. you'll still have it, and still be able to spam it with my idea of a "nerf". Just because you're supposed to be evasive, doesn't mean you should be able to be invisible without penalty

Being able to only cloak a few times in a row needs a penalty?

My sorc was able to streak 15-20 times in a row. If you need more cloaks than that in a row then there's something wrong with your play style to begin with...

Stamblades can only cloak a few times, and their play style is just fine. Most Stamblades don't have any points in magicka, because they are a stamina build and hybrid builds don't work well. Maybe the penalty you seek should only apply to builds that have invested points into magicka?

I don't want to nerf anyone. I want a useful counter.

There is, any aoe skill or even DETECT POTS?

Angarato · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

See what I'm saying? This community is filled with pure NBs

wow good counter arguement bro. must be really strange that theres alot of nbs in a post about our ability. so strange

Yeah, by single individuals. Now read the actual threads, and they're filled with dozens of NBs protecting their precious pause button. this thread for starters...

yeah we're protecting our class from being destroyed by crying baddies that are too lazy to slot a counter cause it will lower their uber l337 internet ganking build

Bloodgharm · October 2015

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

I think the cost should start scaling after 3 consecutive cloaks. But definitely not 1 cloak.

I agree. While cloak has been worked on, it's definitely not fixed. I still get into situations where I cast cloak and I immediately get pulled out. (No, I didn't get hit with an aoe or other ability) I honestly think that reducing magicka regen by 25-50% while in cloak is a far better and more fair solution, but increasing cost after 3 cloaks would work just as well.

Cody · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I got way off track. I don't even want a nerf for cloak. I want a reliable counter

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

THIS. And the reason they will win, is because the majority of players are NBs. It's not hard to figure out that being invisible is a really comfortable place to be. But with stealth being probably the most important thing in pvp, it's ridiculous

NB is a class that is supposed to rely on stealth and evasion. It is what it was designed to be. The description for NB on the TESO site even says - "Combine deadly mastery of stealth with insidious siphoning and shadow magic to eliminate your marks with ruthless efficiency. "

You guys want the class to be something other than what it is.

I don't want to take away your cloak. you'll still have it, and still be able to spam it with my idea of a "nerf". Just because you're supposed to be evasive, doesn't mean you should be able to be invisible without penalty

Being able to only cloak a few times in a row needs a penalty?

My sorc was able to streak 15-20 times in a row. If you need more cloaks than that in a row then there's something wrong with your play style to begin with...

Stamblades can only cloak a few times, and their play style is just fine. Most Stamblades don't have any points in magicka, because they are a stamina build and hybrid builds don't work well. Maybe the penalty you seek should only apply to builds that have invested points into magicka?

I don't want to nerf anyone. I want a useful counter.

There are counters! radiant mage light, AOE attacks, caltrops, flare, detection potions, gap closing while the player is using cloak, and many others. Look them up:) I myself have used them or have had them used against me to great effect.

The only counter that is effective against cloak is Mark Target. Having a thousand counters isn't any good when they all suck. You can even read about them in threads.

They do not suck, I have used them all to great effect. Idc what the threads say about them, I have actually used them and have seen them in action. Heck the ability only works half the time to begin with(which may be why you see NBs spamming it to begin with)

Cody · October 2015

Infinite12 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

Cloak is the NB escape/defense skill all rolled into one. Was hardened ward nerfed alongside streak? No. And it shouldn't be either.

Not everyone QQ'd about Streak. I didn't even have a forum account back then and if I did I wouldn't have called for streak nerfs. Although I would have been very vocal about the sharpened and nirnhoned bugs.

I know the desire for revenge comes instinctively, but at least try to be a little less transparent in your reasoning for a cloak nerf.

Its no revenge im just comparing to so called escape moves. I dont call for a major nerf just said everyone wanted a streak nerf and now suddenly everyone is fine with cloak. I dont mind cloak in combat i have no problems with it. But what gets on my nerves is that a NB can end the fight at their will when they cant win. And good luck to try to find a decent NB who knows how to play.
Thats why i think a streak treatment would work well. To prevent cloak spam.

i have a v16 nb btw but he retired / only crafts gear

not everyone wanted a streak nerf. quite a few of us on the forums hated the very idea, and im sure many people in the rest of the community did too; ZOS just chose to listen to the people calling for nerfs; that's it. There is no secret agenda; I myself WANT streak to be un-nerfed, as there are plenty of ways of beat it.

and tbh, if streak was made useless, sorcs would still have hardened ward. What would a NB have if cloak was made useless? A situational teleport? I highly doubt you are going to be able to use it for every single fight, even if you are a ranged player. its too situational in my opinion; regardless, its not a suitable replacement for cloak. It is roughly a one time use teleport that is honestly not worth the space on the bar if you do not plan to endlessly kite your enemy the entire battle or run away every single fight.

"NBs can end the fight at will" so can sorcerers with Bolt Escape, yet I don't see you complaining about it.

Bolt escape is still a problem. When sorcs are losing they bolt escape and 9 out of 10 times they're gone. And could you name a few of the plenty of abilities to combat bolt escape please. The only one I know of is critical rush and that's not that effective against bolt escape,

critical rush is very effective against bolt escape; unless ranges got changed and I am unaware of them. you can use rapid maneuvers to close the gap if you want to chase them. NBs have ambush, another sorc can use BE to chase, a templar can even use topling charge(if that is what its called,) if the opportunity presents itself. the only class that would really have an issue there is the DK.

and tbh, if a sorc BEs away, then let them:/ it means they have lost and are out of the fight unless their regen is sky high.

Cody · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

They just need the old streak treatment. 50% extra cost if cast again within 4 seconds. that's more than fair, considering people still complained about streak being spammable before IC

if that happens, stamblades will not be able to effectively use cloak. its manablades spamming cloak, not stamblades. do not punish stamblades for something a mana blade does. I personally like the OPs fix; I myself don't think cloak needs any "fix" but as long as I can still use it with a stamblade I can live with the change. I have played in worse scenarios.

That doesn't matter. They chose a STAMINA build. Our stamina sorcerers still have to deal with the Streak nerf.

i could care less what happened to sorcerers, we are talking about nightblades, not sorcerers. I have already had that discussion with someone else, I'm not having it again.

That response was about NBs. It was a comparison on why it's fair towards stamblades. Not hard to understand the context...

it is not fair toward stamblades. you thinking it is OK for stamblades to get a cloak nerf because stam sorcs got a BE nerf is ridiculous and short sighted. If you would open your eyes and stop with the blind hatred; you would realize that. Again, can stam sorcs use streak effectively? No. stam sorcs essentially lost one of their survival abilities because people did not want to find a counter. The exact same thing is happening here. If you truly were on the side of fairness; you would not have made such a comparison.

"Not hard to understand the context" Was that remark necessary? I did understand what you were trying to say smart a** (yes the gloves are off now, I will not let you act like that towards me without taking action, forum rules be danged.) I disagreed with it and stated why I did so. Your sarcastic insults are not necessary. You can disagree with me, and that's fine, but you need not start using insults

Callidus_Est · October 2015

I main a Magic NB in cyrodiil. SO far, it seems like I am really the only magic NB that has actually commented here.

Listen here, kiddos.

Cloak is just fine.

Streak only got nerfed because it was an instant "get out of jail free" card.

I could live with reduced mana regen by 25 or 50%, that's not bad, but making it scale like BE would destroy a nightblades' defense. Cloak, really, isn't all that reliable. Many people slot AoE's, and almost all nightblades have mark. Very rarely does cloak actually save your life in a 1vX situation, or solo-play for that matter. Why trash a NB's only defensive ability, besides shadow Image? NBs already die fast, and cloak is an integral part of the play style.

Dark cloak isn't a "pause" button at all, really, and cloak is just one of magicka NBs problems.

-Strife's cost needs to be increased.. One of my friend's strifes costs 280 magicka. Even though he has 300+ CP, is a Breton and has reduced cost glyphs, that's just wrong.
-Concealed Weapon either needs a damage increase, or a cost reduction. I would lean for the former. It is just fact that stamblades hit harder.
-Impale needs to be able to hit someone that's on top of a keep wall. Jesus beam can. Mages fury can. But unlike all the long-range finishers, impale cant. The animation needs improvement too. Itsays in the tooltip that you throw a knife. In the animation, you just stab like Killers' Blade. You actually need to throw a knife.

These are some I can think of. If there are any other magicka NBs out there, add on to what I said.

Anyways, cloak doesn't need nerfing because it's not as reliable as streak.

I really use cloak for travel, staying hidden, and setting up burst combos. I could use it for what it was meant for(defense and getting you out of ***) if it wasn't so bad. It's better to use it before you are seen and prevent combat rather than using it to get away, cause it is just not gonna work, even though it should.

Vangy · October 2015

I play a night blade and never need more than 2-3 cloaks to get away from a fight. If u need more I suggest L2P? And I'm a stam nb btw.

1) choose where and how u engage someone carefully

Yes this means you can't just sit around anywhere u want in stealth and engage however u want and still be able to get away by spamming cloak. Use terrain use Los. Hell u can even cloak into adds and the supposed 100000 counters to cloak are almost all useless in this situation. Any1 throws any Aoe while ur cloaked into adds they gonna pull the room. (In ic)

2) if I run into a Zerg I don't expect cloak to save me and it really shouldn't

Yes this means you shouldn't be able to spam dodge roll and cloaks alternating to get away. If u get caught out of place by a bunch of people or a detect pot or radiant Mage light you will die. And you should.

This streak treatment won't hurt good nb players in the slightest bit cos they KNOW how to use cloak smartly. Dodge roll into adds/around a turn aka use LOS and then hit cloak. Which brings me to my final point:

3) You should not be able to spam cloak to get away while running in a straight line out in the open. Yes nbs are masters of stealth and good nbs will still be able to get away with cloaks by using things like terrain and LOS while carefully choosing where they engage you to get away

DannyLV702 · October 2015

Barlthump wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

[

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Levo18 wrote: »

Let me get this straight.

The escspe ability from sorc , streak. Everyone QQed so it got nerfed and now they say its fine now.

The escape ability from nightblade, cloak. Way more OP and annoying than streak was before the nerf and people say no its fine dont touch it or i will quit the game.

Uhm?

THIS. And the reason they will win, is because the majority of players are NBs. It's not hard to figure out that being invisible is a really comfortable place to be. But with stealth being probably the most important thing in pvp, it's ridiculous

NB is a class that is supposed to rely on stealth and evasion. It is what it was designed to be. The description for NB on the TESO site even says - "Combine deadly mastery of stealth with insidious siphoning and shadow magic to eliminate your marks with ruthless efficiency. "

You guys want the class to be something other than what it is.

I don't want to take away your cloak. you'll still have it, and still be able to spam it with my idea of a "nerf". Just because you're supposed to be evasive, doesn't mean you should be able to be invisible without penalty

Being able to only cloak a few times in a row needs a penalty?

My sorc was able to streak 15-20 times in a row. If you need more cloaks than that in a row then there's something wrong with your play style to begin with...

If you need to streak 15-20 times in a row maybe you should think about why you need to run away so damn much

When did i say i need that many? I'm doing ok with the 5-7 streaks i've been nerfed down to, i use them offensively. Next question please.

To the idiot that posted this. With the nerf my 3 time cloak will become a 1 time cloak. I hope they put a 3 sec cd on streak and watch you idiots burn

"To the idiot..."

I thought you had to be over 17 to buy this game?

Vraneon · October 2015

Yes cloak needs a nerf. Just like Reflective Scales or Streak. Increased cost getting multiplied like rolldodge, would be nice.

olsborg · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

iliatha wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

They just need the old streak treatment. 50% extra cost if cast again within 4 seconds. that's more than fair, considering people still complained about streak being spammable before IC

yea lets make cloack that useless that even the last solo pvp players will quit or join brain afk zerg groups. good idea.

Wow really? Don't be a crybaby. Sorcs were still able to spam Streak with that. Sounds like you're one of those guys i face who spends 95% of the time in cloak healing while i stand there waiting for you to unpause the game.

Youre not really thinking things through here, there are stamina nbs who cant spam cloak more then 2-3 times, is it fair that they get nerfed to the point where its useless? (because trust me, you have to atleast cast cloak twice to make it work in 90% of the cases)

Asmael · October 2015

Callidus_Est wrote: »

I main a Magic NB in cyrodiil. SO far, it seems like I am really the only magic NB that has actually commented here.

Listen here, kiddos.

Cloak is just fine.

Streak only got nerfed because it was an instant "get out of jail free" card.

I could live with reduced mana regen by 25 or 50%, that's not bad, but making it scale like BE would destroy a nightblades' defense. Cloak, really, isn't all that reliable. Many people slot AoE's, and almost all nightblades have mark. Very rarely does cloak actually save your life in a 1vX situation, or solo-play for that matter. Why trash a NB's only defensive ability, besides shadow Image? NBs already die fast, and cloak is an integral part of the play style.

Dark cloak isn't a "pause" button at all, really, and cloak is just one of magicka NBs problems.

-Strife's cost needs to be increased.. One of my friend's strifes costs 280 magicka. Even though he has 300+ CP, is a Breton and has reduced cost glyphs, that's just wrong.
-Concealed Weapon either needs a damage increase, or a cost reduction. I would lean for the former. It is just fact that stamblades hit harder.
-Impale needs to be able to hit someone that's on top of a keep wall. Jesus beam can. Mages fury can. But unlike all the long-range finishers, impale cant. The animation needs improvement too. Itsays in the tooltip that you throw a knife. In the animation, you just stab like Killers' Blade. You actually need to throw a knife.

These are some I can think of. If there are any other magicka NBs out there, add on to what I said.

Anyways, cloak doesn't need nerfing because it's not as reliable as streak.

I really use cloak for travel, staying hidden, and setting up burst combos. I could use it for what it was meant for(defense and getting you out of ***) if it wasn't so bad. It's better to use it before you are seen and prevent combat rather than using it to get away, cause it is just not gonna work, even though it should.

I'm leveling a magicka NB and doing great. Spot on, I had the exact same thoughts on Strife and Concealed weapon.

As for Impale, it feels slow and not responsive at all, but that might be just me...

Path of Darkness is a skill that feels very underwhelming, but it has the same issues as Wall of Elements (fast ticking DoT that procs the Resilient passive from the Champion System, while being reduced by %crit reduction, %magic reduction and %DoT reduction).

I think I'd actually reduce the number of DoTs removed by Dark Cloak, 2 and 3 sounds fair enough but 4 is like "remove EVERYTHING" considering it can be used really quickly.

Other than that, some inconsistent Cloak behavior: if someone uses Unstable Flame / Burning Embers on me, and I cloak right after that, the DoT is purged but I am revealed.

Asmael · October 2015

Vraneon wrote: »

Yes cloak needs a nerf. Just like Reflective Scales or Streak. Increased cost getting multiplied like rolldodge, would be nice.

Care to explain why it has to be nerfed?

"Because X got nerfed" is not a valid answer.

duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO · October 2015

At least for this one, cloak is again (or rather still) so broken, as to be near useless other than a (very short) confusion on some (noob) enemies.

You get pulled out of cloak faster than you can cast it, even your own DOT pull you out (caltrops are the worst), i.e. pretty much anything but light attacks (small thanks for that), pull you out of it now (yes could be a bug, but have seen people using single target attacks and nothing but, and still getting insta de-cloaked).

Recently even the purge of negative effects seems to break up...

And seriously, which NB does not have a high critical rating anyway, or rather one so low as making a small boost worthwhile casting a cloak? Seriously. And in any case, potions provide such a boos for 40+++ seconds (47.6 for this one) for the whole time, without wasting time (and that's DPS lost). Even in PvP that's only good for an opener, but you got other options for that.

Rather have cloak provide a HoT with a good start heal instead, as an alternative to Rally and morphs.

Jumper45 · October 2015

@DannyLV702

[/quote] The only counter that is effective against cloak is Mark Target. Having a thousand counters isn't any good when they all suck. You can even read about them in threads.[/quote]

Bolt escape only has 1 counter really. Cloak has tons. Even if they do suck which they dont after the recent patch that you always neglect to mention the point is. ALL NBs have to deal with a counter against them all the time while BE only has to deal with 1 from a very few players. Lets not forget you can go invis after only a few BEs as well.....

Jumper45 · October 2015

Asmael wrote: »

Callidus_Est wrote: »

I main a Magic NB in cyrodiil. SO far, it seems like I am really the only magic NB that has actually commented here.

Listen here, kiddos.

Cloak is just fine.

Streak only got nerfed because it was an instant "get out of jail free" card.

I could live with reduced mana regen by 25 or 50%, that's not bad, but making it scale like BE would destroy a nightblades' defense. Cloak, really, isn't all that reliable. Many people slot AoE's, and almost all nightblades have mark. Very rarely does cloak actually save your life in a 1vX situation, or solo-play for that matter. Why trash a NB's only defensive ability, besides shadow Image? NBs already die fast, and cloak is an integral part of the play style.

Dark cloak isn't a "pause" button at all, really, and cloak is just one of magicka NBs problems.

-Strife's cost needs to be increased.. One of my friend's strifes costs 280 magicka. Even though he has 300+ CP, is a Breton and has reduced cost glyphs, that's just wrong.
-Concealed Weapon either needs a damage increase, or a cost reduction. I would lean for the former. It is just fact that stamblades hit harder.
-Impale needs to be able to hit someone that's on top of a keep wall. Jesus beam can. Mages fury can. But unlike all the long-range finishers, impale cant. The animation needs improvement too. Itsays in the tooltip that you throw a knife. In the animation, you just stab like Killers' Blade. You actually need to throw a knife.

These are some I can think of. If there are any other magicka NBs out there, add on to what I said.

Anyways, cloak doesn't need nerfing because it's not as reliable as streak.

I really use cloak for travel, staying hidden, and setting up burst combos. I could use it for what it was meant for(defense and getting you out of ***) if it wasn't so bad. It's better to use it before you are seen and prevent combat rather than using it to get away, cause it is just not gonna work, even though it should.

I'm leveling a magicka NB and doing great. Spot on, I had the exact same thoughts on Strife and Concealed weapon.

As for Impale, it feels slow and not responsive at all, but that might be just me...

Path of Darkness is a skill that feels very underwhelming, but it has the same issues as Wall of Elements (fast ticking DoT that procs the Resilient passive from the Champion System, while being reduced by %crit reduction, %magic reduction and %DoT reduction).

I think I'd actually reduce the number of DoTs removed by Dark Cloak, 2 and 3 sounds fair enough but 4 is like "remove EVERYTHING" considering it can be used really quickly.

Other than that, some inconsistent Cloak behavior: if someone uses Unstable Flame / Burning Embers on me, and I cloak right after that, the DoT is purged but I am revealed.

The only problem i see with removing amount of dots removed is Cloak will not function with dots on you which is fine. Its always been that way in other games. But the problem is youre spending Magicka ( other games its generally free to cast except a cooldown) to cloak only to NOT cloak if there are still dots. This may be quite the case in pvp with multi targets attacking you. So the cloak isnt working as intended vs other escapes from classes which do what is intended all the time. It may not seem fair but the alternative is to make it not remove dots but also not break cloak so the cast has its intended function. Then that turns into cloak just being unbreakable which can cause even more problems. Its a ripple effect.

Personally its all stupid. The remove dots morph is really just a forced morph since cloak doesnt work without it. The crit morph is pretty much only useful for Bow Snipe NBs which are very far away and wont get dotted by anything really.

demustacio · October 2015

My main is a Magicka High Elf NB. And all i can say is in PvP cloak is both very useful and not useful at all. My reason for stating this opinion is that:

1. I seem to get pulled out TOO easily during 1vX. I don't know if this is because of the AoE going on targeted at me or a bug but I feel it's non effective in 1vX situations. To be able to truly cloak and restart a fight or to get a breather i have to spam cloak for about ~5x which burns quite the mana out of my toon.

2. It's VERY useful in 1v1 situation (except against another nightblade with mark). Reason being i can re-engage my combo. But it's not rare to fight someone with a little bit common sense to block when I am in cloak which won't do any help for them if I am running fear in my bar. Thus in my opinion it's useful in 1v1. But let's not forget, smart players --i'm not saying experienced players-- can and will get you out of cloak. Either they have detect pots or using AoE effectively against cloak. so it's a bit 50-50 useless and useful in 1v1.

I can only make 2 points as of right now because i mainly play solo or small scale PvP. But my point is (in my honest opinion) cloak is somehow useful and useless depends on the situation and depends on the user and the opponent. But yes I agree it needs to have a few tweaks here and there just to make it a little more useful in 1vX and a little useless in 1v1. Because let's face it, no one likes to fight a NB 1v1 and you just need to hit that execute button but the NB cloak and run away and head to the shadow just to come back at you with all stats replenished.

The point of cloak is both defence and offence for a night blade. So ZoS please don't destroy or make this skill too OP as NBs are already a powerful class. Just tweak it a little bit to make it more "balance" in the eyes of the qq-ers and most importantly FAIR! But still have the functionality of the skill available for both stam and magicka NB.

I don't know if i'm making any points here or just beating around the bushes. But let's see what you guys think because all I want is a fair and useful skill for a NB main defensive and escape tool. Just remember to take into account that the NBs are supposedly elusive class, let's not take the term elusive away from the class.

EDIT: Or just improve the counters to cloak -_- and buff DK and Templar STOP THE NERFS

Oh and I have my own opinion of how to make cloak more counter-able in a sense or two: Make the Nb who use cloak not truly invisible. Like just make the player transform into one of those shades but more invisible or like the way the Predators in the movie Predators "cloak". So with a very keen eye the opponent can see the cloaked NB, but just barely. You get the point... I hope.

Regards,
demustacio

Cody · October 2015

Vraneon wrote: »

Yes cloak needs a nerf. Just like Reflective Scales or Streak. Increased cost getting multiplied like rolldodge, would be nice.

scales has already bee nerfed once, it needs no more

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

My Stamina Sorcerer can Bolt better then it did when he was magic Bolt run with Lighting Form (40% speed buff for 15s) and Bolt again or just Botl twice and sprint it's not hard to let the cool down hit Bolt x2 puts me 34m away I stun with the first and make a break for it.

Bolt wasn't balanced before 17m in .5 seconds that stunned you when you Bolt. Still powerful but not over powered

Vraneon wrote: »

Yes cloak needs a nerf. Just like Reflective Scales or Streak. Increased cost getting multiplied like rolldodge, would be nice.

Scales are no longer an 100% of everything you shot at me gets sent back harder. It's good where it is. Hell as Stamina Nightblade even I feel that should be up to 8 attacks in 4 seconds just an idea. Crushing Shock is three attacks in one.

Van_0S · October 2015

If zeni desides to nerf cloak then they should buff heal of ability bar( sap essence/swallow soul) or passive 75% healing received.