Ezareth wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

So to those of you who commented on what I had to say, it seemed what you were saying is, "I want to be able to kill large groups of people by myself and have them penalized for working as team, as was intended."

I remember, when I first started playing people were always, I mean ALWAYS complaining about how there were just a few elite players in PvP that could take out entire groups because they dealt to much damage and had to much resistance. I really haven't seen this be problem in a while. I play on Hedarus btw, so lots of people, very little problems with lag.

Beyond this, I have played some incredibly ineffective 24-(wo)man groups that would get steamrolled by smaller groups because there was no communication, teamwork, and/or no healer. The problem is that all those "elite" players, now with the caps and champion cap to come, just aren't as "elite" as they used to be because the gaps are getting closed to make PvP MORE competitive for everyone. As it stands, I couldn't be happier. The battles are longer and drawn out. It really gives a battlefield, army vs. army feel to it. Thus causing group leaders to have to coordinate. As I said, I play on Hedarus server. Currently AD. I have to say, for the most part the "main group leaders" for AD are terrible (not calling anyone out, it's just a common belief amongst most the grunts). They do not coordinate with each other at all and when DF or EP are on and they are working in groups(as they often are), we get steamed rolled.

Although I've never played it, so I could be 100% wrong but I did Google it, is that World of Warrant has an Arena system and it has in no way broken the PvP in the game. People can go do their duels, and people can fight in a war. In fact, ZOS should consider putting in a new area just for Arena play, where people can queue in for 1v1, 2v2, etc., as well as just challenge each other to practice duels. THERE EVERYONE'S HAPPY... just kidding, it's the internet.

With your first sentence you make very clear that you understood absolutely nothing about the concerns of the people playing with smaller grps.
Please do yourself and all of us the favor to actually try to understand what smallgrp players want instead of posting such nonsense.

Exactly.

If you put the original members of say Alacrity in a group of 12 against similar caliber players in a group of 24 with no AoE Caps the 24 man group would wipe the floor with them. Small group players do not want an advantage when fighting outnumbered....we want a *chance*. Big difference there. We used to have a fighting chance when fighting a larger force that was less organized and less skilled than our group.

To simplify as much as possible it boils down to this:

Larger groups already have a massive build in advantage....they have more people. This means they have the potential to do more damage, more healing, a greater capacity for battlefield ressing, and have more ultimates + total health.

What small man groups are asking for is for large groups to *not* have a built in advantage of artificial damage reduction in addition to all of the other advantages they now possess.

It's quite simple really.

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

I don't know what is so particularly hard to understand about this.

In the Middle Ages, many times archer prisoners had their hands cut off. Modern snipers many times put against a wall and shot. People who fight in a way that can be easily interpreted as "dirty tricks" - and, yes, as a historian, I can tell you that firing weapons from range, even in an open field, has often been seen as a "dirty trick" - then ideas of chivalry, soldierly camaraderie, and the Geneva conventions go out the window and are replaced by bloodlust and revenge.

I'd like to think of myself as pretty level-headed and appreciate of other perspectives. But if I get sniped from stealth, ganked, or ambushed/feared/soul harvest - I don't care by who - then any ganker I come is going to get chased across the map, I don't care how far they run, how skillful they are, how many people accompany me. It is, as Lava said, payback. Would it be more sporting for me to let the other 19 finish him off? Yeah. Do I feel skilled or that it's some accomplishment to in essence murder them? No. That's not the point. It's just trying to sate bloodlust. That's all.

Then there is the personal element. You play this game long enough, you are going to have enemies, rivals, and people who just don't like who for whatever irrational reason: they think you macro, you beat them too many times, they think you're a nub who plays a FOTM class, you zerg, whatever. I have been in raids chasing a scroll where the leader told us to *turn around* and dogpile someone for reasons.

Also, 1vXers invite this. I see them jump round like House of Pain outside an enemy keep basically saying "Come get me." Now, how do you think your average gamer will react if he goes out and then gets Rekt by the jumper and her 3 other friends? It takes a pretty level-headed dude to rationally assess in the next situation they see someone jumping around. "Hey, you know what, there are 19 other people chasing this skillful individual who bucks the Zerg meta, I think I will forgo the AP I'd get from killing them and walk back to Bleakers and continue to stand around waiting for some action."

If 20 people chase me and go to the extent of using ultimates just to kill me, I take it as a compliment

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

I don't know what is so particularly hard to understand about this.

In the Middle Ages, many times archer prisoners had their hands cut off. Modern snipers many times put against a wall and shot. People who fight in a way that can be easily interpreted as "dirty tricks" - and, yes, as a historian, I can tell you that firing weapons from range, even in an open field, has often been seen as a "dirty trick" - then ideas of chivalry, soldierly camaraderie, and the Geneva conventions go out the window and are replaced by bloodlust and revenge.

I'd like to think of myself as pretty level-headed and appreciate of other perspectives. But if I get sniped from stealth, ganked, or ambushed/feared/soul harvest - I don't care by who - then any ganker I come is going to get chased across the map, I don't care how far they run, how skillful they are, how many people accompany me. It is, as Lava said, payback. Would it be more sporting for me to let the other 19 finish him off? Yeah. Do I feel skilled or that it's some accomplishment to in essence murder them? No. That's not the point. It's just trying to sate bloodlust. That's all.

Then there is the personal element. You play this game long enough, you are going to have enemies, rivals, and people who just don't like who for whatever irrational reason: they think you macro, you beat them too many times, they think you're a nub who plays a FOTM class, you zerg, whatever. I have been in raids chasing a scroll where the leader told us to *turn around* and dogpile someone for reasons.

Also, 1vXers invite this. I see them jump round like House of Pain outside an enemy keep basically saying "Come get me." Now, how do you think your average gamer will react if he goes out and then gets Rekt by the jumper and her 3 other friends? It takes a pretty level-headed dude to rationally assess in the next situation they see someone jumping around. "Hey, you know what, there are 19 other people chasing this skillful individual who bucks the Zerg meta, I think I will forgo the AP I'd get from killing them and walk back to Bleakers and continue to stand around waiting for some action."

If 20 people chase me and go to the extent of using ultimates just to kill me, I take it as a compliment

Wow, just wow.

You know the things maulkin describes happen to players choosing not to utilize stealth at all do you? Heck, most of the time i purposefully make people aware of my presence before engaging them (i will do this in every 1v1 if i engage a grp and multiple people are too blind to see a teleporting max height highelve enganging them it´s fair game imho).

The people chasing you with 20 man are the savages you´re describing without a lack of any fighting code or chivalry.

That said. I´m remorseless myself when chasing down gankers. They´re scum.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I bought Call of Duty.
I decided to play only with the knife.
I ridicule and insult anyone who uses guns.
I am awesome.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Payback because as someone who prefers small scale, sometimes it's nice to be in the choo choo yourself instead of getting choo choo'd.

So you prefer small-scale, but when you join a large group you don't exact payback from the large groups that killed you... you instead exact payback by hunting down the same small scalers or solo players you are enjoying being part of? Is that what you're saying?

Does not compute

And I'm not acting hostile at all. Nor did I say anything about anyone being better than anyone else. I'm just trying to figure out the thought process behind getting pleasure from chasing solo/small-scale players when you are part of a large organised group that's focused on AvA objectives.

When you rarely play in choo choo trains, both being part of one as well as chasing down loners is a special occurrence that indeed elicits feelings of 'revenge' because instead of being choo choo'd down by whatever train of whatever colour, you get to be the choo choo train! I imagine that if you play in choo choo trains more often than not, this chasing down of loners is not very special nor entertaining. You'd have to ask someone else about that.

Secondly, why do you assume that every 'large organised group' is focused on AvA objectives? That as bad as assuming that everyone who is not in a 'large organised group' is a ganker.

ToRelax wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Payback because as someone who prefers small scale, sometimes it's nice to be in the choo choo yourself instead of getting choo choo'd.

So you prefer small-scale, but when you join a large group you don't exact payback from the large groups that killed you... you instead exact payback by hunting down the same small scalers or solo players you are enjoying being part of? Is that what you're saying?

Does not compute

And I'm not acting hostile at all. Nor did I say anything about anyone being better than anyone else. I'm just trying to figure out the thought process behind getting pleasure from chasing solo/small-scale players when you are part of a large organised group that's focused on AvA objectives.

When you rarely play in choo choo trains, both being part of one as well as chasing down loners is a special occurrence that indeed elicits feelings of 'revenge' because instead of being choo choo'd down by whatever train of whatever colour, you get to be the choo choo train! I imagine that if you play in choo choo trains more often than not, this chasing down of loners is not very special nor entertaining. You'd have to ask someone else about that.

Secondly, why do you assume that every 'large organised group' is focused on AvA objectives? That as bad as assuming that everyone who is not in a 'large organised group' is a ganker.

Are there "large organized groups" with the goal of hunting down solo and small group players?

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

I don't know what is so particularly hard to understand about this.

In the Middle Ages, many times archer prisoners had their hands cut off. Modern snipers many times put against a wall and shot. People who fight in a way that can be easily interpreted as "dirty tricks" - and, yes, as a historian, I can tell you that firing weapons from range, even in an open field, has often been seen as a "dirty trick" - then ideas of chivalry, soldierly camaraderie, and the Geneva conventions go out the window and are replaced by bloodlust and revenge.

I'd like to think of myself as pretty level-headed and appreciate of other perspectives. But if I get sniped from stealth, ganked, or ambushed/feared/soul harvest - I don't care by who - then any ganker I come is going to get chased across the map, I don't care how far they run, how skillful they are, how many people accompany me. It is, as Lava said, payback. Would it be more sporting for me to let the other 19 finish him off? Yeah. Do I feel skilled or that it's some accomplishment to in essence murder them? No. That's not the point. It's just trying to sate bloodlust. That's all.

Then there is the personal element. You play this game long enough, you are going to have enemies, rivals, and people who just don't like who for whatever irrational reason: they think you macro, you beat them too many times, they think you're a nub who plays a FOTM class, you zerg, whatever. I have been in raids chasing a scroll where the leader told us to *turn around* and dogpile someone for reasons.

Also, 1vXers invite this. I see them jump round like House of Pain outside an enemy keep basically saying "Come get me." Now, how do you think your average gamer will react if he goes out and then gets Rekt by the jumper and her 3 other friends? It takes a pretty level-headed dude to rationally assess in the next situation they see someone jumping around. "Hey, you know what, there are 19 other people chasing this skillful individual who bucks the Zerg meta, I think I will forgo the AP I'd get from killing them and walk back to Bleakers and continue to stand around waiting for some action."

If 20 people chase me and go to the extent of using ultimates just to kill me, I take it as a compliment

Wow, just wow.

You know the things maulkin describes happen to players choosing not to utilize stealth at all do you? Heck, most of the time i purposefully make people aware of my presence before engaging them (i will do this in every 1v1 if i engage a grp and multiple people are too blind to see a teleporting max height highelve enganging them it´s fair game imho).

The people chasing you with 20 man are the savages you´re describing without a lack of any fighting code or chivalry.

That said. I´m remorseless myself when chasing down gankers. They´re scum.

Well, if you feel so comfortable to call people who adopt a certain play-style "scum" and "savages," then I don't think you should be surprised or indignant that not everybody appreciates the fine distinction between your idea of what is "fair" 1vX and what is not.

Maulkin asked for an explanation and I provided one.

Also, just because I am trying to explain something that I see happen every time I log in does not mean I partake in it or condone it.

Except that explanation was based on playstyle assumptions that were more fitting for the 20 people than the one being chased down...

You started with the chivalry and fairness argument. I merely pointed out fairness has under no circumstance anything to do with what those players are doing or their motivation to do so.

No, I said that opinions of what is fair and chivalrous go out the window when people lose, get frustrated, or have to do with opponents who play in ways they don't think is "fair."

By saying you "mercilessly" - you own word that is direct contradiction to notions of fair play - and go out of your way to kill "scum" gankers, this idea should not be so hard to grasp.

Opinions of what is "fair" are not universal. Those gankers you think are "scum" are using legal tactics and specifically designed abilities/mechanics for that style of gameplay. They will say ganking is "fair' game because they invested so much of their build into being a glass cannon that if they make a mistake or fail, then they are going to die.

Derra wrote: »

Wow, just wow.

You know the things maulkin describes happen to players choosing not to utilize stealth at all do you? Heck, most of the time i purposefully make people aware of my presence before engaging them (i will do this in every 1v1 if i engage a grp and multiple people are too blind to see a teleporting max height highelve enganging them it´s fair game imho).

The people chasing you with 20 man are the savages you´re describing without a lack of any fighting code or chivalry.

That said. I´m remorseless myself when chasing down gankers. They´re scum.

Ishammael wrote: »

What was the lesson of Eddard Stark at the end of the first book of Game of Thrones?

Lava_Croft wrote: »

]I just don't pretend like I'm in any way better than the people who prefer to choo choo.

Joy_Division wrote: »

By saying you "mercilessly" - you own word that is direct contradiction to notions of fair play - and go out of your way to kill "scum" gankers, this idea should not be so hard to grasp.

Opinions of what is "fair" are not universal. Those gankers you think are "scum" are using legal tactics and specifically designed abilities/mechanics for that style of gameplay. They will say ganking is "fair' game because they invested so much of their build into being a glass cannon that if they make a mistake or fail, then they are going to die.