PvP Podcast (Episode 7 Uploaded)

Lava_Croft · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

Some people like to pull the wings off of flys for fun too. Never really saw the point in that sort of thing.

The beauty of ESO is/should be that both options are viable.

Ezareth · October 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

Some people like to pull the wings off of flys for fun too. Never really saw the point in that sort of thing.

The beauty of ESO is/should be that both options are viable.

Both options used to be viable. Now only 1 option is viable while the other option continues to die.

Elimination of AoE caps actually helps large group play far more than it hurts it. Imagine if large group players would be able to actually focus on things that were more enjoyable than staying in a tightly clumped ball of people running around. This is the main reason I don't bother group PvP at all any more. I try from time to time and it ends up the same...Ball up or go home.

The last thing I want is a cyrodiil full of a bunch of solo players running around looking to duel. I like variety in all styles of play not just one.

Darnathian · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

I shouldn't have even said what I did, I'm not trying to dog on Crown but it was distracting to me and I wanted to provide some feedback to Spyher and the guys hosting the podcast. Anyone appearing on the podcast should have very thick skin and treat everyone else as equals and with the respect they are due regardless of differences in opinion.

Agree with most of what you said. However, the only one who has treated everyone as equals has been Sypher. The other three have at times voiced there, "displeasure", at other playstyles and opinions.

I don't think any disrespect was thrown towards Jules or Crown. A lot of us small group PvPers vent about "Zergers". I heard Richard say zerg groups and then catch himself and add "large scale groups" to the list so as not to offend the other two.

Calling all large group players "Zergers" is like calling all small group players "Gankers". Both have negative connotations and do not accurately describe the style of play.

[/quote]

No one calls all small group pvpers gankers by default like large groups are called zergs on these forums and in game.

krim · October 2015

1.5

pjwb16_ESO · October 2015

give me this

http://youtu.be/EtN-rB0OQVU or atleast sth similar please

HighT3chR3dn3ck · October 2015

So to those of you who commented on what I had to say, it seemed what you were saying is, "I want to be able to kill large groups of people by myself and have them penalized for working as team, as was intended."

I remember, when I first started playing people were always, I mean ALWAYS complaining about how there were just a few elite players in PvP that could take out entire groups because they dealt to much damage and had to much resistance. I really haven't seen this be problem in a while. I play on Hedarus btw, so lots of people, very little problems with lag.

Beyond this, I have played some incredibly ineffective 24-(wo)man groups that would get steamrolled by smaller groups because there was no communication, teamwork, and/or no healer. The problem is that all those "elite" players, now with the caps and champion cap to come, just aren't as "elite" as they used to be because the gaps are getting closed to make PvP MORE competitive for everyone. As it stands, I couldn't be happier. The battles are longer and drawn out. It really gives a battlefield, army vs. army feel to it. Thus causing group leaders to have to coordinate. As I said, I play on Hedarus server. Currently AD. I have to say, for the most part the "main group leaders" for AD are terrible (not calling anyone out, it's just a common belief amongst most the grunts). They do not coordinate with each other at all and when DF or EP are on and they are working in groups(as they often are), we get steamed rolled.

Although I've never played it, so I could be 100% wrong but I did Google it, is that World of Warrant has an Arena system and it has in no way broken the PvP in the game. People can go do their duels, and people can fight in a war. In fact, ZOS should consider putting in a new area just for Arena play, where people can queue in for 1v1, 2v2, etc., as well as just challenge each other to practice duels. THERE EVERYONE'S HAPPY... just kidding, it's the internet.

Derra · October 2015

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

So to those of you who commented on what I had to say, it seemed what you were saying is, "I want to be able to kill large groups of people by myself and have them penalized for working as team, as was intended."

I remember, when I first started playing people were always, I mean ALWAYS complaining about how there were just a few elite players in PvP that could take out entire groups because they dealt to much damage and had to much resistance. I really haven't seen this be problem in a while. I play on Hedarus btw, so lots of people, very little problems with lag.

Beyond this, I have played some incredibly ineffective 24-(wo)man groups that would get steamrolled by smaller groups because there was no communication, teamwork, and/or no healer. The problem is that all those "elite" players, now with the caps and champion cap to come, just aren't as "elite" as they used to be because the gaps are getting closed to make PvP MORE competitive for everyone. As it stands, I couldn't be happier. The battles are longer and drawn out. It really gives a battlefield, army vs. army feel to it. Thus causing group leaders to have to coordinate. As I said, I play on Hedarus server. Currently AD. I have to say, for the most part the "main group leaders" for AD are terrible (not calling anyone out, it's just a common belief amongst most the grunts). They do not coordinate with each other at all and when DF or EP are on and they are working in groups(as they often are), we get steamed rolled.

Although I've never played it, so I could be 100% wrong but I did Google it, is that World of Warrant has an Arena system and it has in no way broken the PvP in the game. People can go do their duels, and people can fight in a war. In fact, ZOS should consider putting in a new area just for Arena play, where people can queue in for 1v1, 2v2, etc., as well as just challenge each other to practice duels. THERE EVERYONE'S HAPPY... just kidding, it's the internet.

With your first sentence you make very clear that you understood absolutely nothing about the concerns of the people playing with smaller grps.
Please do yourself and all of us the favor to actually try to understand what smallgrp players want instead of posting such nonsense.

Maulkin · October 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

Derra · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

You know what he´s gonna write? Abusing bugs.

After that i´ll post the screenshots where he admits bugoiling ppl on top of a milegate.

Etaniel · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

You know what he´s gonna write? Abusing bugs.

After that i´ll post the screenshots where he admits bugoiling ppl on top of a milegate.

Kris will always tell you to respect other people's playstyles, but he thinks it's ok for 20 people to run after 1 solo guy. I'll respect your playstyle if you respect mine yeah?

Ghostbane · October 2015

Please donate so Sypher can buy a green screen. He looks left out.

Maulkin · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

And to be honest, sometimes it's just fun to choo choo over some loner, it feels like payback!

You can certainly do whatever you enjoy, I even enjoy getting chased personally, but payback? Payback for what? For trying to do solo/small-scale? For trying something very challenging in today's PvP meta? For daring to be on the same map as your almighty train? (you used the word choo-choo, not me)

You definitely used the right word there, payback. The reaction of a 20-man group chasing individuals for 5 minutes across half the map and then teabagging them does certainly resemble something like payback.

Maybe you can share with us why you have such feelings, I'd be interested to know. What you're exactly paying them back for, you know?

You know what he´s gonna write? Abusing bugs.

After that i´ll post the screenshots where he admits bugoiling ppl on top of a milegate.

Kris will always tell you to respect other people's playstyles, but he thinks it's ok for 20 people to run after 1 solo guy. I'll respect your playstyle if you respect mine yeah?

Well I'm personally fine with them playing however they want and if they want to chase and choo-choo individuals... then whatever, if that's what they feel like doing. I'm a Sorc, I can go for miles (

) and I enjoy the chase.

It's the animosity, I don't get. I'm the one getting choo-choo'ed, I'm the one having the FPS drops and the ping spikes because of their group's presence (admittedly that's the fault of zos, not the players) and I'm the one that should be "paid back"?

latest?cb=20110617153607

Xeven · October 2015

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Derra · October 2015

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

It discourages them because once the smaller grp reaches a critical mass they´re able to drop anything within close proximity instantly (like big grps are doing it atm) using syncronised ultimates + normal AOE (it would need around 8 players to become really efffective imho). The possibility of being ambushed by a force you´re outnumbering 3 to 1 and being demolished would discourage permamently balling up (because if you don´t stand in close proximity they maybe kill 3 to 6 people and then you kill them)... Ofc balling would still be vaible to sweep an inner keep and this wouldn´t work if you´re aware of enemies.
Nobody want´s to make it completely unvaible. People want alternatives to the imperative good organised ballgrps are.

This is currently not possible because AOE caps take out too much dmg of smallgrps to utilize this effect.

Darnathian · October 2015

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

Derra · October 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

You´ll never be able to win these kind of engagements against competent players.
The people you´re going to win this against are the ones where it´s possible now too.

Xeven · October 2015

Well I'm for it too, but I'm very skeptical that it will fix ball groups.

Maulkin · October 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

So jumping on other groups with your own 20 man group is cool and doing it right, but doing it with 4-man groups is lol-worthy? #Logic

Derra · October 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Well I'm for it too, but I'm very skeptical that it will fix ball groups.

AOE caps is the first step.

If that´s not enough. Let rapid maneuver break on heals.
Still not enough? Limit purgespam in some way.
Not enough? Limit barrier.

What not to do? Introduce all of the above at once...

Darnathian · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

You´ll never be able to win these kind of engagements against competent players.
The people you´re going to win this against are the ones where it´s possible now too.

Come on. We both know thats not true. When you can unleash hell in a second, they will just stealth approach all the way up to a group and bomb them.

Like i said I am for it, I just know what will happen.

Darnathian · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

So jumping on other groups with your own 20 man group is cool and doing it right, but doing it with 4-man groups is lol-worthy? #Logic

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said it was cool. But to be honest if two groups that see each other jump into each other and do it yes there is honor in that.

Stealth bombing a group with a small group and making a video about it, i think there is a difference imo.

Good tactic though if done right. Guerrilla warfare is tough.

Maulkin · October 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

You´ll never be able to win these kind of engagements against competent players.
The people you´re going to win this against are the ones where it´s possible now too.

Come on. We both know thats not true. When you can unleash hell in a second, they will just stealth approach all the way up to a group and bomb them.

Like i said I am for it, I just know what will happen.

You can already do that with a 20-man group. You can hide in a corner of a keep and when another force comes in, you stealth bomb them with ult/cc coordination. You do that right? And you enjoy it too? So what's wrong with a small group having a crack without being impeded by the AoE caps?

The 4-man group has significantly less damage than a 20+ range. If they feck up their timing or if the opposition catches wind of what's going on it's almost certain the small group will wipe. Even if they play it perfectly they are very likely to still wipe.

I just don't see why they have to butt against AoE caps too on top of all the odds being against them.

Darnathian · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

You´ll never be able to win these kind of engagements against competent players.
The people you´re going to win this against are the ones where it´s possible now too.

Come on. We both know thats not true. When you can unleash hell in a second, they will just stealth approach all the way up to a group and bomb them.

Like i said I am for it, I just know what will happen.

You can already do that with a 20-man group. You can hide in a corner of a keep and when another force comes in, you stealth bomb them with ult/cc coordination. You do that right? And you enjoy it too? So what's wrong with a small group having a crack without being impeded by the AoE caps?

The 4-man group has significantly less damage than a 20+ range. If they feck up their timing or if the opposition catches wind of what's going on it's almost certain the small group will wipe. Even if they play it perfectly they are very likely to still wipe.

I just don't see why they have to butt against AoE caps too on top of all the odds being against them.

You are right. Valid points made. I said I was with you. I personally dislike constantly looking over your shoulder for a stealth ambush.

It is a good tactic.

Derra · October 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

You´ll never be able to win these kind of engagements against competent players.
The people you´re going to win this against are the ones where it´s possible now too.

Come on. We both know thats not true. When you can unleash hell in a second, they will just stealth approach all the way up to a group and bomb them.

Like i said I am for it, I just know what will happen.

It´s not possible with 4 players with the current dmg output. Especially since you can´t stealth up because you need to precast detonations (i would have agreed 100% with 1.6 dmg numbers)

If 4 people were able to wipe you in a full raid you deserved to die -.it don´t think it´ll happen regularly though.

Also the only way they´ll be able to do that is when your grp is balling up - so i guess it might discourage balling?

ToRelax · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Well I'm for it too, but I'm very skeptical that it will fix ball groups.

AOE caps is the first step.

If that´s not enough. Let rapid maneuver break on heals.
Still not enough? Limit purgespam in some way.
Not enough? Limit barrier.

What not to do? Introduce all of the above at once...

And not with 6 months inbetween changes pls.

Anazasi · October 2015

I watched the second video and was glad to see you included a couple of group (zerg; ha ha joking) leads. I felt that you guys did a nice job on inclusion which is what you need to continue doing. However, I have to ask, since in both video's you have continued to lobby for 1. removal of AOE caps, and 2. the return of some form of dynamic ultimate generation, is this the solution you want? I hear the message as I am certain others did as well. However, do you honestly think ZOS will do that? I'm just not sure if the message you are sending is actually reaching the desired person who makes the choice or if you have proven why this has to happen.

If you believe so strongly, as I believe you do, please do not give up. Take your message to the next level. Prove your point with pure logic. Debate it with 2 of you taking the pro position and 2 of you taking the con position. Spend 2 hours on debating AOE caps. Argue it amongst yourselves from every possible position. Prove to ZOS why it has to happen and not just because 3500 players in a poll said so or because you 4 say so, but because the logic of the game and its combat mechanics say so. Then do another episode for the ulti gen.

I believe you can do this and achieve your results. If ZOS doesn't change then everyone will know its time to move on. If they are listening as they say they are then simply make them see your point of view, as well as the communities, so we can get the changes we need.

Don't be afraid to use real game footage or groups, set it up, get those groups to help you, take them to a dead server or a campaign and show ZOS why. Use a whiteboard to graph or do the math so the players can see it. Don't just get on twitch and talk about it, show it!

I also think that you need to do some positive things. No one wants to hear all the bad that they have done. Look for the good in what ZOS has accomplished and use that to soften the podcast so it doesn't seem to be a 2 hour attack ZOS rant. I know you can do this if you set your minds to it. All 4 of you are very smart players and can accomplish this if you continue to work together.

Remember this is about the message you are sending and every message has to be clear and with purpose.

(PS) Jules came across very well verbally, and obviously she can hang with the big boys (great job by the way) however, Crown came across as too aloft and a bit too techno. Don't get me wrong, Crown is very good at what he does, He simply is not the poster voice you want on the "AIR". Yes you probably want him consulting or filling in the techno aspects but for his sake turn off his mic.

And remember, viewers are watching, and what they see can be spoken as well as unspoken, so King try not to roll those eyes so much even when we all know what's being said is pointless.

(this is free advice based on experience it is also my opinion on how to help you achieve your goal. you are free to take it or leave it, as all opinions are simple points of few or perspectives from the observer.)

Ezareth · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

HighT3chR3dn3ck wrote: »

So to those of you who commented on what I had to say, it seemed what you were saying is, "I want to be able to kill large groups of people by myself and have them penalized for working as team, as was intended."

I remember, when I first started playing people were always, I mean ALWAYS complaining about how there were just a few elite players in PvP that could take out entire groups because they dealt to much damage and had to much resistance. I really haven't seen this be problem in a while. I play on Hedarus btw, so lots of people, very little problems with lag.

Beyond this, I have played some incredibly ineffective 24-(wo)man groups that would get steamrolled by smaller groups because there was no communication, teamwork, and/or no healer. The problem is that all those "elite" players, now with the caps and champion cap to come, just aren't as "elite" as they used to be because the gaps are getting closed to make PvP MORE competitive for everyone. As it stands, I couldn't be happier. The battles are longer and drawn out. It really gives a battlefield, army vs. army feel to it. Thus causing group leaders to have to coordinate. As I said, I play on Hedarus server. Currently AD. I have to say, for the most part the "main group leaders" for AD are terrible (not calling anyone out, it's just a common belief amongst most the grunts). They do not coordinate with each other at all and when DF or EP are on and they are working in groups(as they often are), we get steamed rolled.

Although I've never played it, so I could be 100% wrong but I did Google it, is that World of Warrant has an Arena system and it has in no way broken the PvP in the game. People can go do their duels, and people can fight in a war. In fact, ZOS should consider putting in a new area just for Arena play, where people can queue in for 1v1, 2v2, etc., as well as just challenge each other to practice duels. THERE EVERYONE'S HAPPY... just kidding, it's the internet.

With your first sentence you make very clear that you understood absolutely nothing about the concerns of the people playing with smaller grps.
Please do yourself and all of us the favor to actually try to understand what smallgrp players want instead of posting such nonsense.

Exactly.

If you put the original members of say Alacrity in a group of 12 against similar caliber players in a group of 24 with no AoE Caps the 24 man group would wipe the floor with them. Small group players do not want an advantage when fighting outnumbered....we want a *chance*. Big difference there. We used to have a fighting chance when fighting a larger force that was less organized and less skilled than our group.

To simplify as much as possible it boils down to this:

Larger groups already have a massive build in advantage....they have more people. This means they have the potential to do more damage, more healing, a greater capacity for battlefield ressing, and have more ultimates + total health.

What small man groups are asking for is for large groups to *not* have a built in advantage of artificial damage reduction in addition to all of the other advantages they now possess.

It's quite simple really.

Maulkin · October 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

How does removing AOE caps discourage ball tactics? If a group of 4-5 runs into a death ball of 16-20 and starts spamming steel tornado, the small group is going to be obliterated all the same. The only thing this does is give similar sized groups more tools. Be it another ball group or a critical mass of random people playing solo.

As long as AOE healing and defensive abilities exist, people are going to ball up. AOE defensive abilities are way too strong and need to be heavily nerfed. AKA heals shields purges speed and other buffs.

Because.... If they remove AOE caps they will post these uber 4 v 24 videos of them stealth bombing, I mean flanking, videos. Lol

I am still for AOE cap removal.

You´ll never be able to win these kind of engagements against competent players.
The people you´re going to win this against are the ones where it´s possible now too.

Come on. We both know thats not true. When you can unleash hell in a second, they will just stealth approach all the way up to a group and bomb them.

Like i said I am for it, I just know what will happen.

You can already do that with a 20-man group. You can hide in a corner of a keep and when another force comes in, you stealth bomb them with ult/cc coordination. You do that right? And you enjoy it too? So what's wrong with a small group having a crack without being impeded by the AoE caps?

The 4-man group has significantly less damage than a 20+ range. If they feck up their timing or if the opposition catches wind of what's going on it's almost certain the small group will wipe. Even if they play it perfectly they are very likely to still wipe.

I just don't see why they have to butt against AoE caps too on top of all the odds being against them.

You are right. Valid points made. I said I was with you. I personally dislike constantly looking over your shoulder for a stealth ambush.

It is a good tactic.

I understand why you'd hate it, but understand that it's both necessary and normal.

In warfare, it hasn't been a valid tactic to stack many of anything in one tight spot for a good few centuries. Because that makes you a massive target for anything from suicide bombing (concentration of men) to just plain artillery bombing (concentration of vehicles/equipment etc).

If you decide to run in a large stacked group, then power to you.. go ahead, but you should be at risk from these kind of attacks and have to look over your shoulder. Whereas, if the only way to kill a large group is to bring a larger one, we end up where we are today. Ball groups and not much else.

We just want more diversity on the type of PvP that is viable.

Darnathian · October 2015

Anazasi wrote: »

I watched the second video and was glad to see you included a couple of group (zerg; ha ha joking) leads. I felt that you guys did a nice job on inclusion which is what you need to continue doing. However, I have to ask, since in both video's you have continued to lobby for 1. removal of AOE caps, and 2. the return of some form of dynamic ultimate generation, is this the solution you want? I hear the message as I am certain others did as well. However, do you honestly think ZOS will do that? I'm just not sure if the message you are sending is actually reaching the desired person who makes the choice or if you have proven why this has to happen.

If you believe so strongly, as I believe you do, please do not give up. Take your message to the next level. Prove your point with pure logic. Debate it with 2 of you taking the pro position and 2 of you taking the con position. Spend 2 hours on debating AOE caps. Argue it amongst yourselves from every possible position. Prove to ZOS why it has to happen and not just because 3500 players in a poll said so or because you 4 say so, but because the logic of the game and its combat mechanics say so. Then do another episode for the ulti gen.

I believe you can do this and achieve your results. If ZOS doesn't change then everyone will know its time to move on. If they are listening as they say they are then simply make them see your point of view, as well as the communities, so we can get the changes we need.

Don't be afraid to use real game footage or groups, set it up, get those groups to help you, take them to a dead server or a campaign and show ZOS why. Use a whiteboard to graph or do the math so the players can see it. Don't just get on twitch and talk about it, show it!

I also think that you need to do some positive things. No one wants to hear all the bad that they have done. Look for the good in what ZOS has accomplished and use that to soften the podcast so it doesn't seem to be a 2 hour attack ZOS rant. I know you can do this if you set your minds to it. All 4 of you are very smart players and can accomplish this if you continue to work together.

Remember this is about the message you are sending and every message has to be clear and with purpose.

(PS) Jules came across very well verbally, and obviously she can hang with the big boys (great job by the way) however, Crown came across as too aloft and a bit too techno. Don't get me wrong, Crown is very good at what he does, He simply is not the poster voice you want on the "AIR". Yes you probably want him consulting or filling in the techno aspects but for his sake turn off his mic.

And remember, viewers are watching, and what they see can be spoken as well as unspoken, so King try not to roll those eyes so much even when we all know what's being said is pointless.

(this is free advice based on experience it is also my opinion on how to help you achieve your goal. you are free to take it or leave it, as all opinions are simple points of few or perspectives from the observer.)

The combat lead, Mr Wrobel, claims he reads the forums but has not acknowledged the literally biggest two topics for pvp right now. To be honest can't remembercthe last time he posted. Gina told us she would do what she could

They say it's because they don't want all the fuss that would come if they posted. I believe this is a extremely bad decision. That's what the customer/company relationship is suppose to be. Provide a product and listen and discuss it with customer. Whether that be positive or negative.

You cannot tell me you don't have 5 minutes each day to put a post or two about we hear you guys. This is how we feel a of it and why.

The customer service needs a dramatic improvement.

It may be a game to us, but it's a business for them. So better customer service would be appreciated.

Anazasi · October 2015

Darnathian wrote: »

Anazasi wrote: »

I watched the second video and was glad to see you included a couple of group (zerg; ha ha joking) leads. I felt that you guys did a nice job on inclusion which is what you need to continue doing. However, I have to ask, since in both video's you have continued to lobby for 1. removal of AOE caps, and 2. the return of some form of dynamic ultimate generation, is this the solution you want? I hear the message as I am certain others did as well. However, do you honestly think ZOS will do that? I'm just not sure if the message you are sending is actually reaching the desired person who makes the choice or if you have proven why this has to happen.

If you believe so strongly, as I believe you do, please do not give up. Take your message to the next level. Prove your point with pure logic. Debate it with 2 of you taking the pro position and 2 of you taking the con position. Spend 2 hours on debating AOE caps. Argue it amongst yourselves from every possible position. Prove to ZOS why it has to happen and not just because 3500 players in a poll said so or because you 4 say so, but because the logic of the game and its combat mechanics say so. Then do another episode for the ulti gen.

I believe you can do this and achieve your results. If ZOS doesn't change then everyone will know its time to move on. If they are listening as they say they are then simply make them see your point of view, as well as the communities, so we can get the changes we need.

Don't be afraid to use real game footage or groups, set it up, get those groups to help you, take them to a dead server or a campaign and show ZOS why. Use a whiteboard to graph or do the math so the players can see it. Don't just get on twitch and talk about it, show it!

I also think that you need to do some positive things. No one wants to hear all the bad that they have done. Look for the good in what ZOS has accomplished and use that to soften the podcast so it doesn't seem to be a 2 hour attack ZOS rant. I know you can do this if you set your minds to it. All 4 of you are very smart players and can accomplish this if you continue to work together.

Remember this is about the message you are sending and every message has to be clear and with purpose.

(PS) Jules came across very well verbally, and obviously she can hang with the big boys (great job by the way) however, Crown came across as too aloft and a bit too techno. Don't get me wrong, Crown is very good at what he does, He simply is not the poster voice you want on the "AIR". Yes you probably want him consulting or filling in the techno aspects but for his sake turn off his mic.

And remember, viewers are watching, and what they see can be spoken as well as unspoken, so King try not to roll those eyes so much even when we all know what's being said is pointless.

(this is free advice based on experience it is also my opinion on how to help you achieve your goal. you are free to take it or leave it, as all opinions are simple points of few or perspectives from the observer.)

The combat lead, Mr Wrobel, claims he reads the forums but has not acknowledged the literally biggest two topics for pvp right now. To be honest can't remembercthe last time he posted. Gina told us she would do what she could

They say it's because they don't want all the fuss that would come if they posted. I believe this is a extremely bad decision. That's what the customer/company relationship is suppose to be. Provide a product and listen and discuss it with customer. Whether that be positive or negative.

You cannot tell me you don't have 5 minutes each day to put a post or two about we hear you guys. This is how we feel a of it and why.

The customer service needs a dramatic improvement.

It may be a game to us, but it's a business for them. So better customer service would be appreciated.

I agree there needs to be a response one way or the other from ZOS, but here is my point which I think you were trying to make but didn't. Public opinion is a powerful tool. If our Twitcher's make a solid argument for this they will sway the public opinion as well the ZOS into actually making the choice we want. As consumers we have the power of choice but sometime we have to do more than just take our money somewhere else. We have to prove why its should be the way we believe it should be.