Dual Wield Weapons: Increased the bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 100%.
They already do....
And it doesn't make sense at all. Once again, melee weapons are 10 times better for magic than staves.
I wish they would finally get rid of this.
I still dont like the fact that your crystal fragments will hit someone harder if youre holding a 2h sword vs a lightning staff.
Dual Wield Weapons: Increased the bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 100%.
They already do....
And it doesn't make sense at all. Once again, melee weapons are 10 times better for magic than staves.
I wish they would finally get rid of this.
Dual Wield Weapons: Increased the bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 100%.
They already do....
And it doesn't make sense at all. Once again, melee weapons are 10 times better for magic than staves.
I wish they would finally get rid of this.
Yes and no...
to the "no"
Melee attacks should do substantial more damage than ranged attacks.
That is for me self evident. Even a potatoe peeling knife becomes nasty at close distance.
Also: At the moment you attack somebody in melee, in the frontline, you expose yourself to melee attacks AND ranged attacks from adds behind the frontline. So you need more damage mitigation or be very swift as a squishy type (risk).
Also: melee needs gap closers slotted (expensive).... or, if not slotted, .... they expose themselfes to the natural combat advantage of ranges adds: if 3 ranged players attack three melee players, the three ranged can focus on 1 straight away. So 3 vs 3 is in actuality to a substantial degree 3 vs 1, which happens all the time in scattered skirmishes in PVP. In PVE the same: as melee fighting a mob that includes some archers or casters that make distance to you in opposite directions is awkward.
To the "yes"
The increased Spell/Weapon Damage will also be used for ranged attacks from DW (not much...) and class skills. And that is not right!
So IMO the inbalance is caused by the lack of sufficient discrimination of ranged vs melee attacks in general by ESO, and the application of that principle on Spell/Weapon Damage in particular. This inbalance is already the case in the current structural combat mechanics.
Whereby noted that IF ESO would solve this in a structural way, they would give staves the same Spell/Weapon Damage as 2 one-hand weapons and tweak the balance ranged vs melee by decreasing the base damage of ranged attacks.
The consistent symmetry must then also include that a stave or two-handed weapon counts for TWO armor set pcs.
Dual Wield Weapons: Increased the bonus Weapon Damage and Spell Damage by 100%.
They already do....
And it doesn't make sense at all. Once again, melee weapons are 10 times better for magic than staves.
I wish they would finally get rid of this.
Yes and no...
to the "no"
Melee attacks should do substantial more damage than ranged attacks.
That is for me self evident. Even a potatoe peeling knife becomes nasty at close distance.
Also: At the moment you attack somebody in melee, in the frontline, you expose yourself to melee attacks AND ranged attacks from adds behind the frontline. So you need more damage mitigation or be very swift as a squishy type (risk).
Also: melee needs gap closers slotted (expensive).... or, if not slotted, .... they expose themselfes to the natural combat advantage of ranges adds: if 3 ranged players attack three melee players, the three ranged can focus on 1 straight away. So 3 vs 3 is in actuality to a substantial degree 3 vs 1, which happens all the time in scattered skirmishes in PVP. In PVE the same: as melee fighting a mob that includes some archers or casters that make distance to you in opposite directions is awkward.
To the "yes"
The increased Spell/Weapon Damage will also be used for ranged attacks from DW (not much...) and class skills. And that is not right!
So IMO the inbalance is caused by the lack of sufficient discrimination of ranged vs melee attacks in general by ESO, and the application of that principle on Spell/Weapon Damage in particular. This inbalance is already the case in the current structural combat mechanics.
Whereby noted that IF ESO would solve this in a structural way, they would give staves the same Spell/Weapon Damage as 2 one-hand weapons and tweak the balance ranged vs melee by decreasing the base damage of ranged attacks.
The consistent symmetry must then also include that a stave or two-handed weapon counts for TWO armor set pcs.
Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Joy_Division wrote: »
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Sorc to. You always use DW/Greatsword for Overload + execute bar. Competitive magicka sorcs will also use DW/Greatsword in PvP over Destruction Staff, because Force Pulse isn't bursty enough in PvP.
Only class that ever seems to run full Destruction Staff is DK, with the passives to heavy attacks and fire dmg.
I feel the biggest issue is the spell power on the healing staff personally, that's what makes other classes so far behind templars in the healing role. It's what makes a skill like Vigor outperform Healing Springs. Why Rally or Entropy is so much better than Regeneration. This is especially noticeable in PvP with the 50% heal reduction, making any heals NOT requiring a resto staff, much better.
Anyhow, if we're going to buff spell dmg on staffs, shouldn't the same love apply to bows? Also outperformed by greatsword and DW for PvE dps. Just to bad about PvP I guess lol. That dirty sneak heavy attack/Focused Aim + Silver Shard + Camo Hunter instagibb meta, really doesn't need more buffs or weapon power
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Templar is the only class for who dw/2h is better than staves in PvE magicka dps. Why? just because all templar's dps spells are channeled/cast so there is not much benefit from destro medium attack weaving, and templar got some classes spammable spells (contrary to sorc). Now look at every other class, they use a destro staff in pve dd, sorc for crushing shock, dk and nb for the medium attack weaving.
In PvP why is there so many destro users, if as you seem to think dw is better all the way? don't tell me for rp please, it's just that it gives good spammable spells for both monotarget and aoe, good utility and a strong weaving compared to magicka dw (and in PvP channeled/cast are more dangerous to use). This means both dw/2h and destro staff are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenient.
For heal templar dual wield is very good for the spell damage bonus, but resto offers strongs aoe heals, buffs and hot, 15% better heals on an ally under 30% hp and the possibility to regen magicka with heavy attack. From my experience 99% of PvE healers have at least one bar with a resto staff. This means both dw/2h and resto are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenients.
Giving staves the same spell damages as dw would reduce the amount of viable build and reduce the diversity of cyrodiil because every single magicka user would use or staff or s&b. There is no point to do that when dw/2h is as good as staves. Its imo one of the rare aspect that is well balanced in this game, no need to destroy it.
Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
But if you compare dark flare hard casts with crushing shock+medium attack, you will instantly want to equip a destro staff. Also, as soon as you have spell power cure or any other set that procs with heals, you will want Healing staffs for rapid regeneration and spirit siphon/quick siphon.
Or, if you are healing trials, you will need healing springs.
omfgitsbatman wrote: »
Hi. Magicka Nightblade here to invalidate most of what you said. I could cast every single one of my spells with swords and do more damage with them. If I look at crushing shock + medium and compare it to funnel health, I immediately see an attack that is way more expensive, a different type of damage than that of all of my class skills, not a noticable dps increase, and without a heal. There is no question which is the better spammable for a nb.
Look at the cost of webs. Look what spammable aoe sorcs use. You know whats the tooltip damage gain with 2h/dw instead of staff? Roughly 1k dmg. You know whats the damages of medium weave? Roughly 1.5-3k. Dw is better for full dmg burst setup, but in most situations I would use destro all the way on my sorc.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Templar is the only class for who dw/2h is better than staves in PvE magicka dps. Why? just because all templar's dps spells are channeled/cast so there is not much benefit from destro medium attack weaving, and templar got some classes spammable spells (contrary to sorc). Now look at every other class, they use a destro staff in pve dd, sorc for crushing shock, dk and nb for the medium attack weaving.
In PvP why is there so many destro users, if as you seem to think dw is better all the way? don't tell me for rp please, it's just that it gives good spammable spells for both monotarget and aoe, good utility and a strong weaving compared to magicka dw (and in PvP channeled/cast are more dangerous to use). This means both dw/2h and destro staff are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenient.
For heal templar dual wield is very good for the spell damage bonus, but resto offers strongs aoe heals, buffs and hot, 15% better heals on an ally under 30% hp and the possibility to regen magicka with heavy attack. From my experience 99% of PvE healers have at least one bar with a resto staff. This means both dw/2h and resto are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenients.
Giving staves the same spell damages as dw would reduce the amount of viable build and reduce the diversity of cyrodiil because every single magicka user would use or staff or s&b. There is no point to do that when dw/2h is as good as staves. Its imo one of the rare aspect that is well balanced in this game, no need to destroy it.
No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon or that those who dual wield are RPing. LOL. Exactly what "good utility" is the destro staff offering? Do you mean to make me laugh while you try to melt me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4
Or how about the utility of wasting your mana on skills that don't work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M
People really got to stop with the "OMG I can medium weave spam" because to get those medium weaves in, the actually attacks you want to use are losing hundreds and hundreds of spell damage. Your light attack from a lighting staff wont kill me, a crystal frag from a high spellpower build will
Answer me this, those who love to weave, why does a NB who also weaves are not punished with a loss hundreds of weapon power for their surprise attacks? That's not balanced, it's a joke.
Look at the cost of webs. Look what spammable aoe sorcs use. You know whats the tooltip damage gain with 2h/dw instead of staff? Roughly 1k dmg. You know whats the damages of medium weave? Roughly 1.5-3k. Dw is better for full dmg burst setup, but in most situations I would use destro all the way on my sorc.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Templar is the only class for who dw/2h is better than staves in PvE magicka dps. Why? just because all templar's dps spells are channeled/cast so there is not much benefit from destro medium attack weaving, and templar got some classes spammable spells (contrary to sorc). Now look at every other class, they use a destro staff in pve dd, sorc for crushing shock, dk and nb for the medium attack weaving.
In PvP why is there so many destro users, if as you seem to think dw is better all the way? don't tell me for rp please, it's just that it gives good spammable spells for both monotarget and aoe, good utility and a strong weaving compared to magicka dw (and in PvP channeled/cast are more dangerous to use). This means both dw/2h and destro staff are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenient.
For heal templar dual wield is very good for the spell damage bonus, but resto offers strongs aoe heals, buffs and hot, 15% better heals on an ally under 30% hp and the possibility to regen magicka with heavy attack. From my experience 99% of PvE healers have at least one bar with a resto staff. This means both dw/2h and resto are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenients.
Giving staves the same spell damages as dw would reduce the amount of viable build and reduce the diversity of cyrodiil because every single magicka user would use or staff or s&b. There is no point to do that when dw/2h is as good as staves. Its imo one of the rare aspect that is well balanced in this game, no need to destroy it.
No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon or that those who dual wield are RPing. LOL. Exactly what "good utility" is the destro staff offering? Do you mean to make me laugh while you try to melt me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4
Or how about the utility of wasting your mana on skills that don't work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M
People really got to stop with the "OMG I can medium weave spam" because to get those medium weaves in, the actually attacks you want to use are losing hundreds and hundreds of spell damage. Your light attack from a lighting staff wont kill me, a crystal frag from a high spellpower build will
Answer me this, those who love to weave, why does a NB who also weaves are not punished with a loss hundreds of weapon power for their surprise attacks? That's not balanced, it's a joke.
Utility of destro? A strong ranged immobilize with cold staff (you will laugh because your mind seems a bit closed but I can say frost touch is very strong agaisnt melee builds) a decent knock back with fire touch, eventhough youre right useless agaisnt shield because of a bug. Also a way to have endless ressources with a full dmg build thanks to weakness of elements. Another chance to procc disintegration for sorcs thanks to shock light attack A heavy attack to give back some ressources...
Already a good amout of advantages, that could worth the loss of spell damages.
Again best sorcerers I know all use destro, and I have much more troubles agaisnt them than agaisnt a dw sorc (dw sorc burst is so easy to see and counter lol).
Yes stamina got an advantage with anime cancel compared to magicka users, but magicka users also have a ton of other advantages over them.cba list them because its not at all the subject of the thread and magicka/stamina comparison is endless, but if you cant find one I hope zis will never listen to you about balance.
Joy_Division wrote: »No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon
Having played a both DW Sorc and DW NB, I disagree.
The main advantage of Destro is light attack weaving. That's another 1k-1.5k damage on every Force Shock that Entangling Webs doesn't have. On top of that it's 25% cheaper (1.5k cost compared to 2k cost).
So you do more damage at cheaper cost and also you have better ult generation because you constantly weave. Then you also have enchants proccing as a result of light attacks. And adding weave to your spammable attacks (Crushing Shock or Swallow Soul) allows you to double the number of attacks you do and drain the stamina of perma-block builds at double the speed.
And don't forget for Sorcs the only spammable AoE they have is Impulse. Streak and Proxy are not spammable in any way. Finally, a very nice thing to do is...when you get a Frag proc you can charge a full heavy and fire the insta-frag at the end. They land together and the burst can be well over 20k with lucky crits.
Destro is far far from a bad weapon. It's just that some of the skills need a bit of a buff, like WoE. I personally believe Destro to be BiS for Sorc.
This meant "I have no arguments left and I want to appear smart with something that has nothing to do with the discussion"Joy_Division wrote: »Look at the cost of webs. Look what spammable aoe sorcs use. You know whats the tooltip damage gain with 2h/dw instead of staff? Roughly 1k dmg. You know whats the damages of medium weave? Roughly 1.5-3k. Dw is better for full dmg burst setup, but in most situations I would use destro all the way on my sorc.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Templar is the only class for who dw/2h is better than staves in PvE magicka dps. Why? just because all templar's dps spells are channeled/cast so there is not much benefit from destro medium attack weaving, and templar got some classes spammable spells (contrary to sorc). Now look at every other class, they use a destro staff in pve dd, sorc for crushing shock, dk and nb for the medium attack weaving.
In PvP why is there so many destro users, if as you seem to think dw is better all the way? don't tell me for rp please, it's just that it gives good spammable spells for both monotarget and aoe, good utility and a strong weaving compared to magicka dw (and in PvP channeled/cast are more dangerous to use). This means both dw/2h and destro staff are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenient.
For heal templar dual wield is very good for the spell damage bonus, but resto offers strongs aoe heals, buffs and hot, 15% better heals on an ally under 30% hp and the possibility to regen magicka with heavy attack. From my experience 99% of PvE healers have at least one bar with a resto staff. This means both dw/2h and resto are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenients.
Giving staves the same spell damages as dw would reduce the amount of viable build and reduce the diversity of cyrodiil because every single magicka user would use or staff or s&b. There is no point to do that when dw/2h is as good as staves. Its imo one of the rare aspect that is well balanced in this game, no need to destroy it.
No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon or that those who dual wield are RPing. LOL. Exactly what "good utility" is the destro staff offering? Do you mean to make me laugh while you try to melt me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4
Or how about the utility of wasting your mana on skills that don't work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M
People really got to stop with the "OMG I can medium weave spam" because to get those medium weaves in, the actually attacks you want to use are losing hundreds and hundreds of spell damage. Your light attack from a lighting staff wont kill me, a crystal frag from a high spellpower build will
Answer me this, those who love to weave, why does a NB who also weaves are not punished with a loss hundreds of weapon power for their surprise attacks? That's not balanced, it's a joke.
Utility of destro? A strong ranged immobilize with cold staff (you will laugh because your mind seems a bit closed but I can say frost touch is very strong agaisnt melee builds) a decent knock back with fire touch, eventhough youre right useless agaisnt shield because of a bug. Also a way to have endless ressources with a full dmg build thanks to weakness of elements. Another chance to procc disintegration for sorcs thanks to shock light attack A heavy attack to give back some ressources...
Already a good amout of advantages, that could worth the loss of spell damages.
Again best sorcerers I know all use destro, and I have much more troubles agaisnt them than agaisnt a dw sorc (dw sorc burst is so easy to see and counter lol).
Yes stamina got an advantage with anime cancel compared to magicka users, but magicka users also have a ton of other advantages over them.cba list them because its not at all the subject of the thread and magicka/stamina comparison is endless, but if you cant find one I hope zis will never listen to you about balance.
You are probably one of those people who think magicka DKs are still OP.
mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon
Having played a both DW Sorc and DW NB, I disagree.
The main advantage of Destro is light attack weaving. That's another 1k-1.5k damage on every Force Shock that Entangling Webs doesn't have. On top of that it's 25% cheaper (1.5k cost compared to 2k cost).
So you do more damage at cheaper cost and also you have better ult generation because you constantly weave. Then you also have enchants proccing as a result of light attacks. And adding weave to your spammable attacks (Crushing Shock or Swallow Soul) allows you to double the number of attacks you do and drain the stamina of perma-block builds at double the speed.
And don't forget for Sorcs the only spammable AoE they have is Impulse. Streak and Proxy are not spammable in any way. Finally, a very nice thing to do is...when you get a Frag proc you can charge a full heavy and fire the insta-frag at the end. They land together and the burst can be well over 20k with lucky crits.
Destro is far far from a bad weapon. It's just that some of the skills need a bit of a buff, like WoE. I personally believe Destro to be BiS for Sorc.
If you had rode my last post you would know why destro staff isn't only a "not bad weapon" but also a good weapon.Joy_Division wrote: »mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon
Having played a both DW Sorc and DW NB, I disagree.
The main advantage of Destro is light attack weaving. That's another 1k-1.5k damage on every Force Shock that Entangling Webs doesn't have. On top of that it's 25% cheaper (1.5k cost compared to 2k cost).
So you do more damage at cheaper cost and also you have better ult generation because you constantly weave. Then you also have enchants proccing as a result of light attacks. And adding weave to your spammable attacks (Crushing Shock or Swallow Soul) allows you to double the number of attacks you do and drain the stamina of perma-block builds at double the speed.
And don't forget for Sorcs the only spammable AoE they have is Impulse. Streak and Proxy are not spammable in any way. Finally, a very nice thing to do is...when you get a Frag proc you can charge a full heavy and fire the insta-frag at the end. They land together and the burst can be well over 20k with lucky crits.
Destro is far far from a bad weapon. It's just that some of the skills need a bit of a buff, like WoE. I personally believe Destro to be BiS for Sorc.
Is it BiS because it is the *only* magic-based offensive weapon or because it's actually good?
You are going to tell me this isn't a bad weapon when it's CC doesn't work, it's DoT is lower than my health regeneration, it's AoE has one-fourth the area as steel torando (which also functions as an execute)? It's passives only apply to its mediocre skills unlike swords? It's channeled heavy attack can't even hit dodge rollers anymore? It's best skill was nerfed so it doesn't even proc elemental effects anymore? I disagree. That's bad. Just because you don;t have any other ranged or magical offensive option doesn't make it good.
I'm not necessarily disagreeing with someone who believes that a sorcerer + destro staff is best for their character, I am saying there are other considerations that need to be considered for balance aside from the commonly cited weave + skill attack is roughly equivalent in damage to a skill from dual swords.
What if I'm not a DPS medium weaving? What if I am a healer?
Here are my heals from the best Restoration staff in the game, a weapon that provides zero offensive benefit and its sole purpose i is to heal:
]
Here is what I can heal for using blackmsith's steel
Every skill I run on that resto bar, my shards, my jesus beams, my heals, etc that really have nothing to do with weaving attacks are all losing hundreds of spell damage.
Why is it that a stamina dual wielder can maximize their weapon damage and weave in attacks that scale of their attribute and their Champion points but a magicka user can't do the same thing? Because people want to look cool using swords and not get overshadowed by the weapon mechanically intended for magicka users to employ? Why is it that for magicka users, it is deemed "balanced" that their weapon skills ought to get scaled down with less spell power but not for stam users? These inconsistencies make zero sense to me.
This meant "I have no arguments left and I want to appear smart with something that has nothing to do with the discussion"Joy_Division wrote: »Look at the cost of webs. Look what spammable aoe sorcs use. You know whats the tooltip damage gain with 2h/dw instead of staff? Roughly 1k dmg. You know whats the damages of medium weave? Roughly 1.5-3k. Dw is better for full dmg burst setup, but in most situations I would use destro all the way on my sorc.Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »During one of the ESO Live Episodes, Eric Wrobel said it's fully intentional. TLDR: His reasoning behind this was that by using DW/2H with your Magicka class abilities, you are already giving up some other options you could have with Destruction/Restoration-Staff line. So to cover the loss, they decided to leave Spell Damage bonus to buff those spells you might be using.Don't worry. I agree with this of course. All of this
However speaking of magic, a melee weapon should not make your spells hit harder than a magical staff.
Please also note, you don't want to use DW/2H for your main (single target) bar due to lack of ranged weaving, but on your AoE/execute/off-bar.
Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
Why aren't stamina users punished for using their intended weapons? Why do I have to lose 700 spellpower to actually heal my group with a resto staff?
And in many cases it is better to just dual wield swords because with so much spellpower out there and bonuses from stuff like Kena and spell power cure, you are losing so much spelldamage that weaving in light attacks won't make up for it.
The only stamina ranged weapon is bow. And bow offers as much weapon damage as staves offer spell damage. Are you "punished" for using staves? No lol, destro staff has a lot of advantages particulary for sorcs a spammable abilitie almost essential. On my sorc I would never go without a destro staff as main dps bar (in both pve and pvp) after 1.6 changes while on my nb since I play him magicka melee dps in pvp, I prefer dual wield. I think the current system is quite fair and creates more diversity than if magicka users were restricted to s&b or staves in pvp as they used to.
No.
In ESO, I range attack with my swords. Dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - dark flare - Jesus beam, all from 28 meters away. Eric Wrobel has not thought this through.
I most certainly am punished for using a staff:
With swords:
With staff:
This spell empowers itself, any light attack you weave is a dps loss.
I can heal my group with this much spellpower using a sword:
Or this much using a restoration staff:
ESO is the only fantasy game ever magical healers are better off using the steel blacksmith weapons as oppesed to a magical staff specifically designed to heal.
That goes beyond being not fair. That's just dumb.
Templar is the only class for who dw/2h is better than staves in PvE magicka dps. Why? just because all templar's dps spells are channeled/cast so there is not much benefit from destro medium attack weaving, and templar got some classes spammable spells (contrary to sorc). Now look at every other class, they use a destro staff in pve dd, sorc for crushing shock, dk and nb for the medium attack weaving.
In PvP why is there so many destro users, if as you seem to think dw is better all the way? don't tell me for rp please, it's just that it gives good spammable spells for both monotarget and aoe, good utility and a strong weaving compared to magicka dw (and in PvP channeled/cast are more dangerous to use). This means both dw/2h and destro staff are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenient.
For heal templar dual wield is very good for the spell damage bonus, but resto offers strongs aoe heals, buffs and hot, 15% better heals on an ally under 30% hp and the possibility to regen magicka with heavy attack. From my experience 99% of PvE healers have at least one bar with a resto staff. This means both dw/2h and resto are quite balanced, with their advantages and inconvenients.
Giving staves the same spell damages as dw would reduce the amount of viable build and reduce the diversity of cyrodiil because every single magicka user would use or staff or s&b. There is no point to do that when dw/2h is as good as staves. Its imo one of the rare aspect that is well balanced in this game, no need to destroy it.
No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon or that those who dual wield are RPing. LOL. Exactly what "good utility" is the destro staff offering? Do you mean to make me laugh while you try to melt me?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJJb863umd4
Or how about the utility of wasting your mana on skills that don't work?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeN99_z7N6M
People really got to stop with the "OMG I can medium weave spam" because to get those medium weaves in, the actually attacks you want to use are losing hundreds and hundreds of spell damage. Your light attack from a lighting staff wont kill me, a crystal frag from a high spellpower build will
Answer me this, those who love to weave, why does a NB who also weaves are not punished with a loss hundreds of weapon power for their surprise attacks? That's not balanced, it's a joke.
Utility of destro? A strong ranged immobilize with cold staff (you will laugh because your mind seems a bit closed but I can say frost touch is very strong agaisnt melee builds) a decent knock back with fire touch, eventhough youre right useless agaisnt shield because of a bug. Also a way to have endless ressources with a full dmg build thanks to weakness of elements. Another chance to procc disintegration for sorcs thanks to shock light attack A heavy attack to give back some ressources...
Already a good amout of advantages, that could worth the loss of spell damages.
Again best sorcerers I know all use destro, and I have much more troubles agaisnt them than agaisnt a dw sorc (dw sorc burst is so easy to see and counter lol).
Yes stamina got an advantage with anime cancel compared to magicka users, but magicka users also have a ton of other advantages over them.cba list them because its not at all the subject of the thread and magicka/stamina comparison is endless, but if you cant find one I hope zis will never listen to you about balance.
You are probably one of those people who think magicka DKs are still OP.
I've never considered dk being op since 1.3 btw, in 1.5 nb was the best all the way imo. Also I am and have always been a magicka nb, I hate playing stamina so I have no personnal interest in defending stam build if you wanna know, just doing so for the sake of balance.mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »No dude.
The first dual wielders who appeared in cyrodiil (the day 1.6 came out) were sorcs. You don't need crushing shock, just using entangling webs from the undaunted tree: it does the same damage, snares, and has a fear synergy that does 6K damage.
Just because there are some people in Cyrodiil who use a destro staff doesnt mean it's a good weapon
Having played a both DW Sorc and DW NB, I disagree.
The main advantage of Destro is light attack weaving. That's another 1k-1.5k damage on every Force Shock that Entangling Webs doesn't have. On top of that it's 25% cheaper (1.5k cost compared to 2k cost).
So you do more damage at cheaper cost and also you have better ult generation because you constantly weave. Then you also have enchants proccing as a result of light attacks. And adding weave to your spammable attacks (Crushing Shock or Swallow Soul) allows you to double the number of attacks you do and drain the stamina of perma-block builds at double the speed.
And don't forget for Sorcs the only spammable AoE they have is Impulse. Streak and Proxy are not spammable in any way. Finally, a very nice thing to do is...when you get a Frag proc you can charge a full heavy and fire the insta-frag at the end. They land together and the burst can be well over 20k with lucky crits.
Destro is far far from a bad weapon. It's just that some of the skills need a bit of a buff, like WoE. I personally believe Destro to be BiS for Sorc.
Inb4 "You're probably one of those people who think magicka DK are still OP"