Shunravi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Why not try to improve as a player within the already easy content? I think it is not the game that is hard, it's the lack of supporting community from good players to help newer players. This is particularly highlighted by a stigma from old players who don't want to run 1 year old trials content or spend hours wiping in the latest veteran dungeons which are face roll with a group of good players (I've run it very easily with a group of 300-400 CP per person). Moreover in my experience, many old good players still playing have lost a lot of patience and would prefer to run with friends to get something done effectively than educate newer players. Same goes both ways though, maybe if newer players also learnt the ropes in the same way those who have played since beta had to with optimizing dps setups, theorycrafting etc, rather than just calling for nerfs on the forums the overall skill level of the player base would improve.

Well, there is also another side. Many experienced players have created a ton of easy access resources, guides, videos, and the like. They are there. Many good players share their builds on sites like tamrielfoundry. Ask streamers, search YouTube. People can't help everyone who needs it. But they can and do share what they know.

I agree, as a good a player, 100%. PvE wise however there is definitely a lack of good guides and players (Please don't site Deltia here :P), they do exist but often you have to dig to find them. As a friend of some of the more prominent writers on tamriel foundary I love what they are doing, but I still don't think a guide will help people who would rather cry wolf than try to improve. This is coming from my background as a trials leader for over a year in ESO within a guild that specializes in aiding players to improve their skill level.

Lest just say i have issues with Deltia.... You may know why

Yea, there certainly is a difference between active ingame help and searching for it. My guild also specializes in helping players improve. I feel you.

We didnt actually complete it as well as we hoped, but my guild also spent (and still spends) time making our own guides. But they arent the easiest to find...

I'm glad we are both islands in an ocean to help players improve still
Hopefully soon I'll be bringing some guides to my youtube channel that will REALLY help players understand bosses etc and help them improve having just fixed an issue where my voice audio was malfunctioning

Sharmony wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Why not try to improve as a player within the already easy content? I think it is not the game that is hard, it's the lack of supporting community from good players to help newer players. This is particularly highlighted by a stigma from old players who don't want to run 1 year old trials content or spend hours wiping in the latest veteran dungeons which are face roll with a group of good players (I've run it very easily with a group of 300-400 CP per person). Moreover in my experience, many old good players still playing have lost a lot of patience and would prefer to run with friends to get something done effectively than educate newer players. Same goes both ways though, maybe if newer players also learnt the ropes in the same way those who have played since beta had to with optimizing dps setups, theorycrafting etc, rather than just calling for nerfs on the forums the overall skill level of the player base would improve.

Well, there is also another side. Many experienced players have created a ton of easy access resources, guides, videos, and the like. They are there. Many good players share their builds on sites like tamrielfoundry. Ask streamers, search YouTube. People can't help everyone who needs it. But they can and do share what they know.

I agree, as a good a player, 100%. PvE wise however there is definitely a lack of good guides and players (Please don't site Deltia here :P), they do exist but often you have to dig to find them. As a friend of some of the more prominent writers on tamriel foundary I love what they are doing, but I still don't think a guide will help people who would rather cry wolf than try to improve. This is coming from my background as a trials leader for over a year in ESO within a guild that specializes in aiding players to improve their skill level.

Lest just say i have issues with Deltia.... You may know why

Yea, there certainly is a difference between active ingame help and searching for it. My guild also specializes in helping players improve. I feel you.

We didnt actually complete it as well as we hoped, but my guild also spent (and still spends) time making our own guides. But they arent the easiest to find...

I'm glad we are both islands in an ocean to help players improve still
Hopefully soon I'll be bringing some guides to my youtube channel that will REALLY help players understand bosses etc and help them improve having just fixed an issue where my voice audio was malfunctioning

Them little tecnical dificulties

Shunravi wrote: »

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Flameheart wrote: »

I soloed lower and upper Craglorn instances with my V16 Nightblade in V16 equip (needed the shards and the achievements, in addition I hate unexplored stuff on my map) with the exception of Shadar's Tear (had that already and I doubt it would be possible) and Serpent's Nest (can't get the three-Lamias-Boss killed) and the trials of course. Did not try Spellscar solo, because I already had the achievement from that.

Was a good training for the upcoming solo arena.

It's a fun place.

As I was there in group at V14 I thought by me, how was Zenimax able to totaly screw up that incredible awesome looking zone and their instances by scaling the difficulty wrong and placing crap loot there ?

At V16 I realized I was wrong, it was meant as a V16 solo challenge...seriously, it was major fun to do that, alone Rhani'Za was a blast...and without group pressure I was able to appreciate the gorgeous dungeon grafics and light effects at last.

I soloed in there from v9-v14....


Ok, ill shut up now.

Nah, I believe that asap, maybe some bosses, as in Skyreach for example, weren't possible to kill solo, but the average normal skyshard cave certainly. I just got that idea too late, but ok, I looked at it as a sightseeing tour.

Concerning Caglorn I always suggest:"Do the wasp test !".

What is a "wasp test"?

Was recently in Craglorn gathering mats and was too lazy to run to a shrine. So I decided to suicide into Spellscar. Much to my surprise I was able to kill them all.

I might try doing the quests now, since I had some success in the overworld encounters.

It's basically if your build can survive a wasp swarm.

Not sure if thats a good test any more. At vet 1 I survived wasps. Took forever to kill them though.

Probably a troll post..

But in all seriousness this game has a lack of difficulty in most content.. I don't think I would refer to myself as hard-core but I do remember a little game called FFXI that had a massive player base for well over a decade and was arguably one of the more punishing MMOs out there, then rapidly alienated and destroyed it by making the game way too easy.

When something is legitimately difficult to beat the sense of accomplishment attached to it is a lot more substantial and meaningful. There is jubilation from the party members over how they struggled with certain mechanics and overcame them in the end. If exclusive rewards are obtained from difficult tasks people wear them like an earned trophy that has a meaning to them. However when its just easy and nonchalant the entire task feels a lot more mundane, pointless, and when finally over you question to yourself, "That was it?" It makes everything mentioned above non-existent, and quite frankly extremely boring.

This kind of logic today is why for the first time in gaming for 25-30 years I rent or demo games instead of buying them to see if they're boring once you scrape past the shiny surface. Honestly this game tends to walk a fine line on that from time to time (to me) but it has potential to become something great if not ruined by parts of its own community.

Game is easy enough as it is. What it lacks is any tension to keep the story and gameplay interesting. That and features - new quests can only do so much, features like housing, naval combat etc have a much longer shelf life for holding peoples' interest.

DenMoria wrote: »

This thread makes me remember why I rarely play ESO and then only as a solo.

The last thing I want is "Social Gaming". Oh please. I've got better single player games to play.

It's good that you're rarely playing eso because it sounds like you shouldn't even have it installed anyway.

Give us a difficulty slider
full easy like it is now, full hard like it used to be, where you almost needed a raid to kill that Peldatarn storm atronach worldboss.

Everybody happy.

No, no, no, no, no. I would favor a difficulty slider though.

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Tessie wrote: »

There is a wide gap between a new player, without any crafted gear, and without any CP on their first play through the game compared to an experienced player. Remember that many players try ESO because there isn't any other new TES available to them.

What are some possible solutions?

• Scale a player's armor, health, and resource pools down to the zone they're playing in
• Provide an option for a player to temporarily disable the effects of their combat related champion points
• Allow solo players to have combat companions or pets
• Allow a player to have their own difficulty setting that can reduce their armor, health and resource pools while increasing xp and rewards
• Allow a group leader in instanced content to be able to set an increased difficulty
• Allow the difficulty of instanced content to automatically scale to the group

My question is, who does some of this benefit? The new player? He won't have the champion points to worry about, why would he need an option to turn them off? Difficulty slider? I have no doubt that it would become the thing to do to set it to the lowest difficulty and farm for your gear and any attempts to fix that would immediately make it so that everyone ran it at the hardest (thus making it new player unfriendly all over again).

Battle leveling (what you mentioned as the first thing) is an interesting idea, but I'm not convinced it will help bad players who are usually complaining that it's hard because they do next to zero research when they design their characters (or they expect their builds at VR1 to be equivalent to what someone who's done the work at VR16 is). They don't ask questions about what they might doing wrong (yes, I know broad generalization, apologies to those it doesn't apply to) and even if they do, they don't actually correct it, they expect the content to be easier. I had someone in guild chat whining that World Bosses were too hard....For crying out loud, nearly every world boss can be killed solo at level or at bare minimum with a single other player.

Instances to do scale to the leader of the group...that's called scaling, I can run VCOA at VR1 if I make the VR1 the leader. Same thing with the hardest of the dungeons at this point (ICP WGT).

Nothing you've listed truly benefits or even really works the way that you might intend, just like the meta that the development team creates is usually ignored by a large number of players in favor of the most optimized meta.

I appreciate the feedback though, because it got me to ask the same questions and come up with why I don't support the OP's argument beyond the simple "lol, no".

It benefits all players. Some people want it harder. Some people want it easier. Some think its just right. So there won't be a single solution that satisfies them all.

For instance, overall game difficulty can be increased to satisfy those who want it harder. Then using battle leveling or scaling, companions, or difficulty adjustments people may set the difficulty down (or even up higher) to the level that is appropriate for their play style.

There are some people who will never want to group. There are some people who will never be able to "learn to play" to the degree others have. A solution that is inclusive will be better for the longevity of the game.

I feel like this game definitely shouldnt be easier. MMOs are supposed to have some crazy ass challenges. If lets say WoW raiding was dumbed down and easier, it wouldnt have been fun at all. Beating a super hard boss that took days and days of failure felt so amazing and accomplishing when you and a group of people finally GOT IT. I feel that casual gamers get their share of fun awesome things to do without having to do the harder more challenging stuff, but the more hardcore achievers have to have their content too.

pirate3 wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

Many may disagree with me, but forcing people into a group at many stages on the way to max level is a really good way for people to improve and at the very least begin to understand what they want to be within a group and what type of role they like playing.

Your best teacher is yourself. But if you don't give yourself any experiences(good and bad), then you won't be able teach yourself.

A very good post, eloquent and well-reasoned. It deserves a considered response, but instead I'll be blunt. A game that forces me to group is one not destined for a long sojourn on my hard-drive. By all means create group content for those that want it. But don't block my (solo) path if you want my money. I'm here to play and to have fun either alone or with other similarly relaxed people, as and when I choose. Force me to group in order to progress and it's game over.

ESO is trying to be 2 different games in one; solo play and group play, and it's a great concept to have. But what I feel they should have done is create a separate story on the way to max level that is focused on group content. Because right now the game is by far too solo focused.

You could argue that Group Dungeons fulfill this, but not quite. I'm thinking more along the lines of how Craglorn works. If we had "Craglorn" type group content for each zone as we leveled up this would be a great alternate path to take as you make your way to max level.

Saying this, with how they are implementing Orsinium in that you can be "battle leveled" so that no matter what level you are you can always have a decent challenge and not be overwhelmed due to level differences. With this style of implementing content, perhaps future Group Content focused zones will also take this path? This might work for me as a reasonable solution, but I still think the base game areas should get some additional group content upgrades.

Personally, the Main Story would have been a lot more fun for me if they also had an alternate way to challenge those solo instance as a group, with an increased difficulty of course.

No doubt you've gotten a lot of hate for this post. But I agree. I'd like more accessible content, I'm hard core (Put a lot of free time into the game) but unorganised and all my real life friends don't like ESO because they expected Skyrim online, (despite me telling them it wasn't that).
I don't really have anyone to play the game with and info about it online is pretty scarce, so I'm probably not playing an optimal class. Solo content or random groups are the only things I can really do. Fortunately wrothgar is fixing most of this by adding a real LFD tool and a solo zone, but far too much of the content remains painfully unsoloable. Namely Craglron which is groups or extremely skilled players only. Which is a damn shame because the zone looks pretty damn awesome and lore heavy. Even If I could find a group to do the quests with me I doubt they'd wait for me to listen to all the dialogue and take in the scenery, besides I'd be forced to stop playing when they did due to the content being so damn hard to solo, not to mention the rewards being bloody terrible, making grouping even less likely.

I enjoy group content, don't get me wrong. I just don't want it in the open world, world bosses should be made easier to solo (In vet areas, non vet is easy) like they did with dolmens and public dungeons should be easier to do alone.

Adventure zones are an abomination. I'm fine with group delves, dungeons and trials being the main focus, but making all the lore and questing group forced? No no no. If they'd made the questing soloable and kept it out of delves then Craglorn would have been perfect for me.

Trials are fine as they are though, those should be organised. Besides, they're not very hard. WoW more or less had the perfect system (Back when they had content), ESO doesn't need to fear becoming a wow clone, it's already fundamentally different. But that game had some ideas that should be baseline for every MMO. The random dungeon finder is one such thing and I'm glad ESO is putting that in the game at last in a true format.
So long as ESO doesn't fall into the trap of focusing entirely on raids (trials) or group-only content (Craglorn) as the de facto end game it has the ability to become a truly amazing MMO, surpassing WoW by miles in my opinion.

The average CP among forum-goers only is approximately 397 220 to 319 CPs
(sample size: 440 respondents --- 5% margin of error)

source:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/220315/champion-point-cap-how-much-cp-do-you-have-now-september-october-2015/p1

EDIT: learned how to Google Docs properly. numbers fixed