dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

Nightblades have Pet(s) already in the form of Shade(s). [REFUTED]

Nightblades do have a Shield in the form of Blur. [Refuted] - While I realize this isn't like a standard shield it has very long duration, gives a speed boost (or minor armor/sr), and essentially negates 20% of all damage coming at you. It achieves maximum utility whether you are using light or heavy armor, all other classes need to use Medium armor to get a similar ability. Additionally, you get the advantage of your class assassination passives by using this ability. I realize Nightblades have a nonstandard shield but they do have a shield and it is awesome. Combined with a ridiculous healing factor, they can tank very well and dps at the same time. (My argonian nb does it all the time). There are some good videos done by players who video their stuff out there on the interwebs that show you what I'm talking about, including a dude who solos a lot of challenge content.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

To be honest I don't get the concept of a stam Sorc.

What skills should it have available which are stam based?
As stam nb build the morphs like surprise attack, ambush make sense.
And before anyone starts on about me being a stam nb I have played one since rollout.
Check out my whining if you don't believe me.

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

People don't want to grind to vet16 to play the new stamina meta.

Stam sorc was the first class I ever rolled when first joining ESO. I had read about werewolves, and that sorcs had a 15% ultimate reduction, so it was the perfect choice. Please, quit your trolling.

jelliedsoup wrote: »

To be honest I don't get the concept of a stam Sorc.

What skills should it have available which are stam based?
As stam nb build the morphs like surprise attack, ambush make sense.
And before anyone starts on about me being a stam nb I have played one since rollout.
Check out my whining if you don't believe me.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

Nightblades have Pet(s) already in the form of Shade(s). [REFUTED]

Nightblades do have a Shield in the form of Blur. [Refuted] - While I realize this isn't like a standard shield it has very long duration, gives a speed boost (or minor armor/sr), and essentially negates 20% of all damage coming at you. It achieves maximum utility whether you are using light or heavy armor, all other classes need to use Medium armor to get a similar ability. Additionally, you get the advantage of your class assassination passives by using this ability. I realize Nightblades have a nonstandard shield but they do have a shield and it is awesome. Combined with a ridiculous healing factor, they can tank very well and dps at the same time. (My argonian nb does it all the time). There are some good videos done by players who video their stuff out there on the interwebs that show you what I'm talking about, including a dude who solos a lot of challenge content.

Shades is not a pet it's an unpurgable dot... [refuted] Does it work with pet armor sets... no.
Blur is not a shield lol I can't believe you said this. Every class can use the medium armor skill without wearing medium armor. Idc what you or your NB can do it has nothing to do with a shield [Refuted]

By any normal MMO definition Shades are a pet, even if you are correct about the Necro set not working with it. Personally I think all the pets should work like shades.

Blur is what is the nightblade analog of a shield. I already stated every class can use the medium armor skill, and it isn't as good for reasons I already stated in my post. The point is that 20% miss change equates to 20% mitigation. It doesn't have a bubble shield, but it does have interesting methods of mitigation based on a magicka dump. Since it lasts 30 seconds its fire and forget, perfect for tanks. Throw in sap essence, siphon, siphoning strikes, shadowy path, and you've got huge mitigation. Giving them a bubble on top of that is preposterous, since Blur is filling that role albeit in a different manner than Sun Shield or Conjured Ward.

The point remains that a Nightblade can play any role well: Tank, Dps Stamina, Dps magicka, and *gasp* Even Healer!

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

Nightblades have Pet(s) already in the form of Shade(s). [REFUTED]

Nightblades do have a Shield in the form of Blur. [Refuted] - While I realize this isn't like a standard shield it has very long duration, gives a speed boost (or minor armor/sr), and essentially negates 20% of all damage coming at you. It achieves maximum utility whether you are using light or heavy armor, all other classes need to use Medium armor to get a similar ability. Additionally, you get the advantage of your class assassination passives by using this ability. I realize Nightblades have a nonstandard shield but they do have a shield and it is awesome. Combined with a ridiculous healing factor, they can tank very well and dps at the same time. (My argonian nb does it all the time). There are some good videos done by players who video their stuff out there on the interwebs that show you what I'm talking about, including a dude who solos a lot of challenge content.

Shades is not a pet it's an unpurgable dot... [refuted] Does it work with pet armor sets... no.
Blur is not a shield lol I can't believe you said this. Every class can use the medium armor skill without wearing medium armor. Idc what you or your NB can do it has nothing to do with a shield [Refuted]

By any normal MMO definition Shades are a pet, even if you are correct about the Necro set not working with it. Personally I think all the pets should work like shades.

Blur is what is the nightblade analog of a shield. I already stated every class can use the medium armor skill, and it isn't as good for reasons I already stated in my post. The point is that 20% miss change equates to 20% mitigation. It doesn't have a bubble shield, but it does have interesting methods of mitigation based on a magicka dump. Since it lasts 30 seconds its fire and forget, perfect for tanks. Throw in sap essence, siphon, siphoning strikes, shadowy path, and you've got huge mitigation. Giving them a bubble on top of that is preposterous, since Blur is filling that role albeit in a different manner than Sun Shield or Conjured Ward.

The point remains that a Nightblade can play any role well: Tank, Dps Stamina, Dps magicka, and *gasp* Even Healer!

Just becuase what you think shades is or what every pet should be doesn't mean it is. Shades is a debuff/dot. Once again blur is not a shield, and you said in your above post that all classes "needed" to use Medium armor for the same skill when they dont. Every class can be everything... just becuase it can't the way you want it to doesn't mean it cant. Do you even know what refuted means?

You view things differently, I get that, but you're pushing the polemic rhetoric a bit hard aren't you? I'm not calling you an imbecile though I could I suppose for you not at least understanding the point I'm making, but disagreeing with it. The reason I'm not calling you an imbecile is not because I think you're right, but just because I think you're using unnecessarily hostile rhetoric. Yes in order to take full and proper advantage of Shuffle you need to be wearing medium armor. Read the tooltips, use the skill, get educated. You probably are you're just a nightblade who wants to keep a tight grip on Stamina builds for some reason. (See I can make nonsensical assumptions as well)

What you can say is that Blur is not a 'bubble shield' in the sense that it doesn't create fake hp that disappears once the timer runs out or damage level exceeds it. What it does do though is grant you a 20% chance to completely ignore everything that comes your way, thereby shielding you from damage. It depends on your definitions. Via passives Blur also grants nice bonuses to all manner of crits (which mathematically are shown to increase dps most, so NB still wins) and there is a morph which boosts your armor/sr via minor buff. If you dont' consider Blur a shield, you have to admit that it falls into the realm of 'mitigation' if you can not concede that then I rescind my former statement that you are not an imbecile.

To Sum it All Up: I really don't think what Alucard is asking for is unreasonable given the changes that have been made to other classes (particularly the extreme bolstering of the NB class). Sorcs can be overpowered, but I don't think adding a class based stamina damage ability is unbalancing or even a bad idea. I think its a good idea, and any issues with Sorc being overpowered I think could be better served by buffing classes that need it in the right ways (DK and Templar).

The game started out with the notion that all roles could be played by all Classes. Class represented more of a framework. This didn't mean all classes were best at the given roles (healing in particular had its problems) but I do not believe that was intention, but rather some unforeseen errors in design. The game also started with a very magicka-heavy slant as is well known by anyone who played for any period of time early on. I don't see anything wrong with them finalizing the transition toward improving the Stamina side of the game for all classes, if there are some obvious weaknesses in design. Why should you?

Alucardo wrote: »

So personally, I find the Nightblade was the most well thought out class of them all. It's almost perfection. You don't need workarounds (ie: I'll use this until I get this ability), because everything is find and dandy from the very start.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

Nightblades have Pet(s) already in the form of Shade(s). [REFUTED]

Nightblades do have a Shield in the form of Blur. [Refuted] - While I realize this isn't like a standard shield it has very long duration, gives a speed boost (or minor armor/sr), and essentially negates 20% of all damage coming at you. It achieves maximum utility whether you are using light or heavy armor, all other classes need to use Medium armor to get a similar ability. Additionally, you get the advantage of your class assassination passives by using this ability. I realize Nightblades have a nonstandard shield but they do have a shield and it is awesome. Combined with a ridiculous healing factor, they can tank very well and dps at the same time. (My argonian nb does it all the time). There are some good videos done by players who video their stuff out there on the interwebs that show you what I'm talking about, including a dude who solos a lot of challenge content.

Shades is not a pet it's an unpurgable dot... [refuted] Does it work with pet armor sets... no.
Blur is not a shield lol I can't believe you said this. Every class can use the medium armor skill without wearing medium armor. Idc what you or your NB can do it has nothing to do with a shield [Refuted]

By any normal MMO definition Shades are a pet, even if you are correct about the Necro set not working with it. Personally I think all the pets should work like shades.

Blur is what is the nightblade analog of a shield. I already stated every class can use the medium armor skill, and it isn't as good for reasons I already stated in my post. The point is that 20% miss change equates to 20% mitigation. It doesn't have a bubble shield, but it does have interesting methods of mitigation based on a magicka dump. Since it lasts 30 seconds its fire and forget, perfect for tanks. Throw in sap essence, siphon, siphoning strikes, shadowy path, and you've got huge mitigation. Giving them a bubble on top of that is preposterous, since Blur is filling that role albeit in a different manner than Sun Shield or Conjured Ward.

The point remains that a Nightblade can play any role well: Tank, Dps Stamina, Dps magicka, and *gasp* Even Healer!

Just becuase what you think shades is or what every pet should be doesn't mean it is. Shades is a debuff/dot. Once again blur is not a shield, and you said in your above post that all classes "needed" to use Medium armor for the same skill when they dont. Every class can be everything... just becuase it can't the way you want it to doesn't mean it cant. Do you even know what refuted means?

You view things differently, I get that, but you're pushing the polemic rhetoric a bit hard aren't you? I'm not calling you an imbecile though I could I suppose for you not at least understanding the point I'm making, but disagreeing with it. The reason I'm not calling you an imbecile is not because I think you're right, but just because I think you're using unnecessarily hostile rhetoric. Yes in order to take full and proper advantage of Shuffle you need to be wearing medium armor. Read the tooltips, use the skill, get educated. You probably are you're just a nightblade who wants to keep a tight grip on Stamina builds for some reason. (See I can make nonsensical assumptions as well)

What you can say is that Blur is not a 'bubble shield' in the sense that it doesn't create fake hp that disappears once the timer runs out or damage level exceeds it. What it does do though is grant you a 20% chance to completely ignore everything that comes your way, thereby shielding you from damage. It depends on your definitions. Via passives Blur also grants nice bonuses to all manner of crits (which mathematically are shown to increase dps most, so NB still wins) and there is a morph which boosts your armor/sr via minor buff. If you dont' consider Blur a shield, you have to admit that it falls into the realm of 'mitigation' if you can not concede that then I rescind my former statement that you are not an imbecile.

To Sum it All Up: I really don't think what Alucard is asking for is unreasonable given the changes that have been made to other classes (particularly the extreme bolstering of the NB class). Sorcs can be overpowered, but I don't think adding a class based stamina damage ability is unbalancing or even a bad idea. I think its a good idea, and any issues with Sorc being overpowered I think could be better served by buffing classes that need it in the right ways (DK and Templar).

The game started out with the notion that all roles could be played by all Classes. Class represented more of a framework. This didn't mean all classes were best at the given roles (healing in particular had its problems) but I do not believe that was intention, but rather some unforeseen errors in design. The game also started with a very magicka-heavy slant as is well known by anyone who played for any period of time early on. I don't see anything wrong with them finalizing the transition toward improving the Stamina side of the game for all classes, if there are some obvious weaknesses in design. Why should you?

My orginal post said shield like a Sorcerer... is blur that? No. What assumptions did I make... you can type all this *** and still be wrong... wich you are. You can't even refute my first post becuase there was nothing to argue, I just said what I wanted. One last time blur != sheild, shades != pets. I play every class... but you keep making your nonsensical assumptions:)

Sun shield isnt a shield like sorcerer, but i am intelligent enough to know they are shields. Shades are not a dot. You are clearly smoking the troll crack. The point is that blur takes the role of shield for nb, it doesnt take a mental titan to figure out. You are purposefully being ignorant about the obvious here on many levels. Shades by the way would be a pet by any mmo standard i have ever seen. The fact their purpose is to debuff is beside the point. The fact they do dmg is beside the point. The real issue is whether they operate via npc ai or you directly attack with them. Short answer is they operate by ai meaning they are a semi autonomous pet. The sorc pets are easier to control but it doesn't change facts. You inability to concede on this shows extreme ignorance about basic mmo terms.

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

So personally, I find the Nightblade was the most well thought out class of them all. It's almost perfection. You don't need workarounds (ie: I'll use this until I get this ability), because everything is find and dandy from the very start.

You obviously didn't roll a Nightblade at launch. The improvements came after months of being one of the weakest classes in PvE; especially solo content. Before the first Craglorn patch, and for some time after, if you were a solo nightblade and came upon a group of 3 or more mobs, your best move would be to quietly stealth away.

The praise should actually be going toward all of the work they have done for stamina builds in general. None of the nightblade's skills had a stamina version at launch nor for some time after. I only recently switched back to stamina after IC came out because it is finally a viable build and it was cheaper to gear for in the short term. I will be switching back to magicka when Orsinium launches.

My first character was a NB so what's ur point? I've been here sinc beta... seriously dude like wtf is your point? You just keep typing all this nonsense that has nothing to do with anything I'm saying. Just keep rambling....

Umm....

This my first post on this thread. I don't know what your problem is but you probably need to take a break from the forums.

BTW. I have been playing since beta too and my first character was a nightblade. Neither of these is an impossible or uncommon feat.

My point in the above comment is that nightblades were not always so easy to play and that many of the improvements to stamina build nightblades came after many months. I thought I said that fairly well and clear already. Why you didn't understand it or why you thought I was even talking to you at all, I have no idea.

Shunravi wrote: »

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

So personally, I find the Nightblade was the most well thought out class of them all. It's almost perfection. You don't need workarounds (ie: I'll use this until I get this ability), because everything is find and dandy from the very start.

You obviously didn't roll a Nightblade at launch. The improvements came after months of being one of the weakest classes in PvE; especially solo content. Before the first Craglorn patch, and for some time after, if you were a solo nightblade and came upon a group of 3 or more mobs, your best move would be to quietly stealth away.

The praise should actually be going toward all of the work they have done for stamina builds in general. None of the nightblade's skills had a stamina version at launch nor for some time after. I only recently switched back to stamina after IC came out because it is finally a viable build and it was cheaper to gear for in the short term. I will be switching back to magicka when Orsinium launches.

I will agree and disagree there...it all depended on how you did things. I could usually handle 3+pretty well. But, yea, pure stamina was weak and so were some hybrids.

SturgeHammer wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

It MUST and I repeat MUST be something unique

Agreed, it must be unique, or at least stay in line with other sorcerer mechanics.