Why Stamina sorcs need at least one class DD ability and why NB is perfect

SturgeHammer

sagitter wrote: »

It MUST and I repeat MUST be something unique

Agreed, it must be unique, or at least stay in line with other sorcerer mechanics.

SleepyTroll

you got to lvl 9 and gave up... Hey ZOS can we just make every class the same?

Alucardo

Jitterbug wrote: »

And, while we're at it give those poor DKs a dang stam morph of Whip already. C'mon combat team, it's bordering cruel and unusual.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I like you

Alucardo

SleepyTroll wrote: »

you got to lvl 9 and gave up... Hey ZOS can we just make every class the same?

I have a VR4 stam sorc as well.

Jitterbug

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

And, while we're at it give those poor DKs a dang stam morph of Whip already. C'mon combat team, it's bordering cruel and unusual.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I like you

As I've stated before, I like you too.

Alucardo

Jitterbug wrote: »

As I've stated before, I like you too.

You seeing anyone?

Jitterbug

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

As I've stated before, I like you too.

You seeing anyone?

Yeah... and I don't ERP :P
But you do make a lot of thoughtful contributions to the forums and I appreciate that.

Jura23

Personally I prefer these kind of generic skills that fall into categories like "gap closer", "execute" etc. to be a weapon thing while the class skills should be more unique and do more creative things than that. But I agree playing low lvl Nightblade is fun.

Keepercraft

Stamina magic.

dodgehopper_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Basically, I'm of the opinion all classes should be as good as Nightblade and Sorc right now, I don't want to see them tear these two down, but just build up the other two to catch up.

Hidden in my big blob of text in the OP was this. No nerfs, just alterations to lacking classes to try and get everyone on equal footing, whether you're a stam or magicka build.

I know, I just wanted to speak my mind on the whole system change issue in a general sense. I agree with the general notion, and I think there's actually a third build which I would call the 'health build' (warrior/tank). ZoS could really stand to rethink some things on the way damage/shields scale off stam/magicka but nothing scales based off health. Its a major inequity where really to maximize effectiveness a player should get the absolutely lowest health they can possively have. This in turn effects powers like Blazing Shield, which has degraded significantly both in its purpose and original use, but not in its duration or cost.

The topic at hand though is a Stamina DPS ability for STorcs which is a concept I like. I favor Lightning because frankly the animation is cooler and it could proc disintegrate (and not the dark healing). I think this is a better thing not only for balance reasons but also because a Lightning punch would look way cooler than hitting someone with a conjured magical rock. Additionally, I like the Crystal Shards aoe. My only problem with it is how slow it is for the time it takes to fire. This is the real reason people don't use this power. The aoe version of crystal shards should be fast, to make up for its lower damage spike, and it should just be treated like a normal aoe (without execute functionality).

SleepyTroll

Just something i found on reddit and agree with.

reddit wrote:

I hate the the drive towards homogenization. It's killing me. Everyone is crying, scraping, gnashing "but XX does YY more dps than me or has more cool downs than me, blah blah blah."
Shut. Up.
I wish there was an MMO Dev that had the stones to come out and say "You are not meant to be balanced in a vacuum. You all have strengths, and weaknesses, and it is up to you to figure them out and play with those classes that shore up your weaknesses and enhance your strengths."
You can read the class description. You can make an educated guess as to how it might turn out. If you don't like it? Sorry you made a bad decision. That's life. Either tough it out, or re-roll. Period. The End.
I feel like MMOs are moving towards being literal single-player games where you encounter other single-players. Each perfect copies of one another, and capable of doing all things equallaly.

Alucardo

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just something i found on reddit and agree with.

reddit wrote:

I hate the the drive towards homogenization. It's killing me. Everyone is crying, scraping, gnashing "but XX does YY more dps than me or has more cool downs than me, blah blah blah."
Shut. Up.
I wish there was an MMO Dev that had the stones to come out and say "You are not meant to be balanced in a vacuum. You all have strengths, and weaknesses, and it is up to you to figure them out and play with those classes that shore up your weaknesses and enhance your strengths."
You can read the class description. You can make an educated guess as to how it might turn out. If you don't like it? Sorry you made a bad decision. That's life. Either tough it out, or re-roll. Period. The End.
I feel like MMOs are moving towards being literal single-player games where you encounter other single-players. Each perfect copies of one another, and capable of doing all things equallaly.

Cool story. What does that have to do with Storc being completely sad and boring to play?

SleepyTroll

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just something i found on reddit and agree with.

reddit wrote:

I hate the the drive towards homogenization. It's killing me. Everyone is crying, scraping, gnashing "but XX does YY more dps than me or has more cool downs than me, blah blah blah."
Shut. Up.
I wish there was an MMO Dev that had the stones to come out and say "You are not meant to be balanced in a vacuum. You all have strengths, and weaknesses, and it is up to you to figure them out and play with those classes that shore up your weaknesses and enhance your strengths."
You can read the class description. You can make an educated guess as to how it might turn out. If you don't like it? Sorry you made a bad decision. That's life. Either tough it out, or re-roll. Period. The End.
I feel like MMOs are moving towards being literal single-player games where you encounter other single-players. Each perfect copies of one another, and capable of doing all things equallaly.

Cool story. What does that have to do with Storc being completely sad and boring to play?

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Alucardo

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

SleepyTroll

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

Alucardo

SleepyTroll wrote: »

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

I don't fully understand. I'm asking for a basic class DD ability, or even a stamina based DoT - anything, just like every other class has access to so storcs aren't limited to wrecking blow and steel tornado.

dodgehopper_ESO

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Just something i found on reddit and agree with.

reddit wrote:

I hate the the drive towards homogenization. It's killing me. Everyone is crying, scraping, gnashing "but XX does YY more dps than me or has more cool downs than me, blah blah blah."
Shut. Up.
I wish there was an MMO Dev that had the stones to come out and say "You are not meant to be balanced in a vacuum. You all have strengths, and weaknesses, and it is up to you to figure them out and play with those classes that shore up your weaknesses and enhance your strengths."
You can read the class description. You can make an educated guess as to how it might turn out. If you don't like it? Sorry you made a bad decision. That's life. Either tough it out, or re-roll. Period. The End.
I feel like MMOs are moving towards being literal single-player games where you encounter other single-players. Each perfect copies of one another, and capable of doing all things equallaly.

Cool story. What does that have to do with Storc being completely sad and boring to play?

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

I fail to see what is 'samey' about giving a Stamina-based burst damage attack for sorcs. Many TES players don't even like the notion of classes as they exist in this game. Additionally, it was made clear by the devs that all roles should be possible for all classes, with different styles. Obviously this is more complicated which is why I think all abilities should have just been open (Like TSW does things). I would also probably have wanted at least some basic weapon mouse combos, if I had seen my way with the combat design in ESO (compare to combos in Skyrim or DCUO).

SleepyTroll

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

I don't fully understand. I'm asking for a basic class DD ability, or even a stamina based DoT - anything, just like every other class has access to so storcs aren't limited to wrecking blow and steel tornado.

OK forget the pets. Should NB get a shield like every other class? This may not be a popular opinion but when I think of a Sorcerer I don't think of a stamina.

Keepercraft

This is not standard mmo

Alucardo

SleepyTroll wrote: »

OK forget the pets. Should NB get a shield like every other class? This may not be a popular opinion but when I think of a Sorcerer I don't think of a stamina.

From the quality (or lack thereof) of your replies, I'm going to assume you're trolling or just disagreeing for the hell of disagreeing.
Nightblades have plenty of class related evasion tactics, which is why they do not need a shield.
Magicka and stamina alternatives should be available to all classes, which you can see ZOS have "attempted" to do. It feels like the stamina side of sorcerer was just kind of taped on near the end in a bad way.

vamp_emily

NB is perfect?

Something must really be wrong with my build because after the update I can barely survive.

I am a vet5, I think i have 47 points in stam and the rest in health.

I press rapid maneuver a few times and my stam falls below 50 percent and then when i reach the fight I might teleport strike or do steel tornado a few time. Within a few seconds I'm out of stam. Then I cloak to survive which I can only do like 3 times because no points in magica. Now I'm out of stam and magica before the fight really gets started.

As far as grinding.. same story.

I don't know what I messed up when I had to re-apply my points after IC update, but my poor little vamp NB is having a really hard time.

SleepyTroll

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

OK forget the pets. Should NB get a shield like every other class? This may not be a popular opinion but when I think of a Sorcerer I don't think of a stamina.

From the quality (or lack thereof) of your replies, I'm going to assume you're trolling or just disagreeing for the hell of disagreeing.
Nightblades have plenty of class related evasion tactics, which is why they do not need a shield.
Magicka and stamina alternatives should be available to all classes, which you can see ZOS have "attempted" to do. It feels like the stamina side of sorcerer was just kind of taped on near the end in a bad way.

And you seem like your in love with NB so you should just play it instead of turning your sorc into one.

Alucardo

SleepyTroll wrote: »

And you seem like your in love with NB so you should just play it instead of turning your sorc into one.

I have already stated this is what I've done, and I don't want sorc to be a Nightblade. I'm all for uniqueness, but it makes sense every class has some basic offence stam morphs. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

Shunravi

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

I don't fully understand. I'm asking for a basic class DD ability, or even a stamina based DoT - anything, just like every other class has access to so storcs aren't limited to wrecking blow and steel tornado.

OK forget the pets. Should NB get a shield like every other class? This may not be a popular opinion but when I think of a Sorcerer I don't think of a stamina.

And when i think of a nightblade i dont think of a strictly stamina either, go figure... Guess im just that stuck on the hybrid archetype from the sp games

Alucardo

vamp_emily wrote: »

NB is perfect?

Something must really be wrong with my build because after the update I can barely survive.

I am a vet5, I think i have 47 points in stam and the rest in health.

I press rapid maneuver a few times and my stam falls below 50 percent and then when i reach the fight I might teleport strike or do steel tornado a few time. Within a few seconds I'm out of stam. Then I cloak to survive which I can only do like 3 times because no points in magica. Now I'm out of stam and magica before the fight really gets started.

As far as grinding.. same story.

I don't know what I messed up when I had to re-apply my points after IC update, but my poor little vamp NB is having a really hard time.

I don't use rapid. I use double take - gives me mobility, evasion and uses magicka so I'm not relying so much on my stamina. Rapid is a massive stamina sink if you're using it in combat.

dodgehopper_ESO

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Not everyone thinks that... but if you do, re-roll we don't need every class to be the same. Stam sorcs are awesome endgame.

Sure, I appreciate not everyone is going to be on the same level. Forums are great for expressing opinions, and mine is I'm not happy riding the steel tornado or WB train. I'd like the ability to use class skills, just like every other class can. I don't think it's too much to ask for in all honesty.

And for magicka NB I want pets and a shield, could you imagine a Magicka NB who had pets with necropetance set and a shield like sorcs now that would be fun.

Nightblades have Pet(s) already in the form of Shade(s). [REFUTED]

Nightblades do have a Shield in the form of Blur. [Refuted] - While I realize this isn't like a standard shield it has very long duration, gives a speed boost (or minor armor/sr), and essentially negates 20% of all damage coming at you. It achieves maximum utility whether you are using light or heavy armor, all other classes need to use Medium armor to get a similar ability. Additionally, you get the advantage of your class assassination passives by using this ability. I realize Nightblades have a nonstandard shield but they do have a shield and it is awesome. Combined with a ridiculous healing factor, they can tank very well and dps at the same time. (My argonian nb does it all the time). There are some good videos done by players who video their stuff out there on the interwebs that show you what I'm talking about, including a dude who solos a lot of challenge content.

Prabooo

Warraxx wrote: »

all u need is WB...

Nope. All you need is LOVE

Shunravi

Prabooo wrote: »

Warraxx wrote: »

all u need is WB...

Nope. All you need is LOVE

This

Alucardo

Prabooo wrote: »

Warraxx wrote: »

all u need is WB...

Nope. All you need is LOVE

Which skill tree is that in? Sounds op!

Jar_Ek

I fully agree that a good direct damage melee/short range stamina morph of mages fury would be awesome. It should not be the same as Surprise attack, but there are numerous options/ideas that could be applied.

Mages Fury is a class based ranged magicka execute (at 20% health), with the execute damage component being a postponed effect (i.e. if their health drops to within range in 4 seconds then it occurs) and having some AoE splash damage.

The two current morphs increase the AoE splash damage component of the execute or provide magicka return if the target is killed. These are both a bit lacklustre as neither really helps the skill to do what it is designed to do - which is presumably to act as an execute.

A stamina version could do any of the following types of thing:

1. A lightning whip providing instant direct damage and a disorient (range short; still provides an execute, but no AoE splash)
2. An overhead smash with a "sword" of lightning which causes direct damage (has an animation) - is melee range; provides an execute with AoE splash but causes more damage than mages fury (melee range, so better damage)
3. A lightning punch which is instant, melee range and is an execute, but does no AoE splash. It causes more damage than mages fury (melee so better damage).

All of these are options