Why Stamina sorcs need at least one class DD ability and why NB is perfect

jelliedsoup

I see it more as a fast attack, like a crit charge.

You could

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

To be honest I don't get the concept of a stam Sorc.

What skills should it have available which are stam based?
As stam nb build the morphs like surprise attack, ambush make sense.
And before anyone starts on about me being a stam nb I have played one since rollout.
Check out my whining if you don't believe me.

What about teleportation screams 'stamina' to you? Maybe if I can flex my muscles really hard I can teleport too?

What about summoning a magical shadow dagger from chaos sounds like I needed to catch my breath or be winded?

Kammakazi wrote: »

Stamina Sorcerers are pretty much dependent on Wrecking Blow...

Many stam builds are. I have surprise attack and Wb.

Most stam builds really don't have many options,

Alucardo

Conquistador wrote: »

Leveling my "stamina" sorcerer has been extremely easy and fun. I don't understand this lack of DPS junk people are talking about.

It has nothing to do with DPS, it's about giving storc more options so they aren't reliant on Wrecking blow or Steel tornado. I'm assuming you're using one or even both of these spells for your damage, so please tell me how you have fun spamming the one button? Not being sarcastic, I'm actually curious.

Alucardo

notimetocare wrote: »

2 of the strongest stamp builds use a class skill. Templar(jabs) and NB(sup attack)

Even DK has one of the strongest DoTs in the game that has a stam morph. Basically every class has at least one offence ability that has a stam morph, something to throw into their routine so it's not WB, WB, WB, WB, Executor.

Alucardo

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

My point is, the OP is mistaken if he thinks that nightblades have always been as effective as a stamina build.

No. I even admitted I didn't play NB from the beginning, but from someone who knows all the classes now, for their flaws and strong points, Nightblade looks like the most well designed because they were able to mould it into what it is today.
It's proof a class can balance stam and magicka builds correctly actually exists. Sorc feels more like some kind of Frankenstein - something they glued together and seems unnatural.

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

Since he is just using the "newer" nightblade as an example for what he wants from his sorceror, I guess the point is moot. Good luck to him.

As I said, I don't even play sorc any more. It bored me tears. Sure it works, but I can't help but feel it's lacking in the stamina department (excluding the nice passives they now have). If they were to fix it, yeah I would probably go back, but it's just not a great implementation as it stands.
If they don't do anything with the class, it's no problem either. Nightblade will always be there with the stam love.

dodgehopper_ESO

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Sun sheild is a shield.... your not intelligent at all. You literally just keep rambling. Is blur a shield? No its doesn't take even the dumbest of people to figure that out. Shades are not a pet, can they be atacked? Are they a toggle? Does necropetance set work with them? No... is this eso or some other mmo? Yea that's right it's eso. I like you your good source of entertainment, you put so much effort into posts yet your still wrong. Do you even know why you started this argument anymore?

I've been more than kind to you in this exchange, but to use a phrase I love to hear in british parliament, 'You sir are an ass'. You are either purposefully ignoring basic principles or are just having fun for the sake of fun. I didn't start this argument, I was simply pointing out how you don't have a good handle on the game systems. Every class has different forms of mitigation but they do have mitigation. Sorcerers do not have the only pet, and even if I could accept that Shades were not a pet, they are not purely a DoT/Debuff and are definitely something more. Fight for the sake of fight if you will, but you have not proven your point that it would somehow be awful to give Sorcerers a stamina-based attack. I for one would like to see all specs (Tank, Magic DPS, Stam DPS, and Heals) get full play in all classes. The closer the game comes to delivering on that, the better. Furthermore, I definitely think they made a mistake by even having classes. They could have much more easily balanced a skill-based system, which is the heritage that ESO draws from. Classes in the sense of predefined skill sets that only one class can use, have not existed in the Elder Scrolls for over 15 years or more. Quit getting blinded by the Red you are seeing and try to grasp the basic point I'm making.

dodgehopper_ESO

jelliedsoup wrote: »

I see it more as a fast attack, like a crit charge.

You could

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

jelliedsoup wrote: »

To be honest I don't get the concept of a stam Sorc.

What skills should it have available which are stam based?
As stam nb build the morphs like surprise attack, ambush make sense.
And before anyone starts on about me being a stam nb I have played one since rollout.
Check out my whining if you don't believe me.

What about teleportation screams 'stamina' to you? Maybe if I can flex my muscles really hard I can teleport too?

What about summoning a magical shadow dagger from chaos sounds like I needed to catch my breath or be winded?

Kammakazi wrote: »

Stamina Sorcerers are pretty much dependent on Wrecking Blow...

Many stam builds are. I have surprise attack and Wb.

Most stam builds really don't have many options,

I was just making the point that Nightblade attacks are definitely 'magical' even if the source is Stamina on some of them. Therefore it should not be an argument made against other classes for having some kind of Stamina based attack available, in this thread that topic is about Sorcerer. I realize that giving the Storc a Stamina attack would have possible pitfalls. I think the best defense against it, if I'm going to play devil's advocate, would be to point out the passive Expert mage which now also gives 2% bonus weapon damage (and spell damage) for each Sorc ability slotted. This means that theoretically you could have a single target bar with all Storc skills and a Flawless Dawnbreaker, thereby far exceeding weapon damage for any class. In addition your bound armor would add to max Stamina and 11% more heavy attack damage. I think this might actually be dangerous for the game without some kind of mitigating factor on this passive, because it far exceeds what Templar has currently or could possibly have, thereby taking even greater inroads into Templar territory. I do however think it might be worth finding a balance here so that Storcs could have this class based stamina attack, particularly since their magicka based Sorcs can achieve this bonus to their magicka attacks.

dodgehopper_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

My point is, the OP is mistaken if he thinks that nightblades have always been as effective as a stamina build.

No. I even admitted I didn't play NB from the beginning, but from someone who knows all the classes now, for their flaws and strong points, Nightblade looks like the most well designed because they were able to mould it into what it is today.
It's proof a class can balance stam and magicka builds correctly actually exists. Sorc feels more like some kind of Frankenstein - something they glued together and seems unnatural.

gclifton58ub17_ESO wrote: »

Since he is just using the "newer" nightblade as an example for what he wants from his sorceror, I guess the point is moot. Good luck to him.

As I said, I don't even play sorc any more. It bored me tears. Sure it works, but I can't help but feel it's lacking in the stamina department (excluding the nice passives they now have). If they were to fix it, yeah I would probably go back, but it's just not a great implementation as it stands.
If they don't do anything with the class, it's no problem either. Nightblade will always be there with the stam love.

I have fun with Stamina Sorc. Its a lot better than it use to be for sure. Honestly the only difference between my Sorc build and my Templar build is that I have the option of dropping in Jabs instead of a Two Hander or DW ability. The Storc build's power is also a bit more reliant upon at least having 3 Sorc abilities on the bar to keep its raw weapon damage as high as a Temp. Beyond that though I would suggest that you probably get better dps from your lightning form than a Temp with blazing shield, and the lightning form is also a much better version of Rune Focus, so in that respect I don't think the Storc is losing out on too much here.

cazlonb16_ESO

Alucardo wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

2 of the strongest stamp builds use a class skill. Templar(jabs) and NB(sup attack)

Even DK has one of the strongest DoTs in the game that has a stam morph. Basically every class has at least one offence ability that has a stam morph, something to throw into their routine so it's not WB, WB, WB, WB, Executor.

Most "good" builds carry only one spammable damage skill in fact. If it's not WB, it is Biting Jabs, BJ, BJ, BJ, Execute, or whip, whip, whip, whip, execute, or Surprise Attack, SA, SA, SA, execute.

That's an issue with the way the combat system is set up, it rewards spamming the "best" skill. What would the rotation with a Sorc stamina morph look like ? Yep, New Sorc Stamina Morph, NSSM, NSSM, NSSM, execute.

Alucardo

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

That's an issue with the way the combat system is set up, it rewards spamming the "best" skill. What would the rotation with a Sorc stamina morph look like ? Yep, New Sorc Stamina Morph, NSSM, NSSM, NSSM, execute.

Not necessarily. It completely depends on how it's implemented. If it's a straight out damage ability, sure it might go that way. If it's a stamina DoT like DKs have, they will use that in their rotation.
Basically if it has a useful utility and doesn't outdamage WB, there's a possibility we'll see some new combos.

Warraxx

What if, magika WB...