Steel Tornado Train

Ashnunn · October 2015

Something needs to be done about endless zerg trains spamming steel tornado. Its as bad if not worse than the impulse spam of old, except impulse didn't get a low health bonus and now physical damage can't be mitigated through the CP tree. Its getting ridiculous

frozywozy · October 2015

Ashnunn wrote: »

Something needs to be done about endless zerg trains spamming steel tornado. Its as bad if not worse than the impulse spam of old, except impulse didn't get a low health bonus and now physical damage can't be mitigated through the CP tree. Its getting ridiculous

I agree with you except for the last part. Alot of people don't slot spike armor or unstoppable but it is a great way to increase your armor against physical attacks. Gotta get that major resolve buff.

Stikato · October 2015

This Meta is AWFUL.

This is the worst incarnation of ESO pvp by a longshot.

GuyNamedSean · October 2015

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

Garion · October 2015

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

High range, high damage and an execute due to dual wield passive. There is no better PBAoE in the game.

Teargrants · October 2015

Stikato wrote: »

This Meta is AWFUL.

This is the worst incarnation of ESO pvp by a longshot.

Worse than 0 bats cost DKs?
Worse than caltrops negating all siege dmg?
Worse than purge insta death bug?

PvP meta sorta has a way of moving from one bad one meta to another bad one.

Stikato · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

This Meta is AWFUL.

This is the worst incarnation of ESO pvp by a longshot.

Worse than 0 bats cost DKs?
Worse than caltrops negating all siege dmg?
Worse than purge insta death bug?

PvP meta sorta has a way of moving from one bad one meta to another bad one.

Outside of those specific problems, there were fun fights to be had all over the place. Cyrodiil was very active during those eras.

Now? Pop balance is garbage most of the time. The only fights to be had are occasional zergs bashing into each other. Double+ scroll runs are the norm rather than the exception. The sewers are mostly just pve'rs grinding and occasionally getting ganked by pvp'ers. The city itself is pointless. ZOS, rather than address OP skills, blanket nerfed everything, and in the process, fixed nothing.

Yeah, it's the worst. Not that it's always been sunshine and roses, but this is as bad as it's been.

I'd trade Cyrodiil now, for Cyrodiil in any of those eras in a second.

Ara_Valleria · October 2015

frozywozy wrote: »

Ashnunn wrote: »

Something needs to be done about endless zerg trains spamming steel tornado. Its as bad if not worse than the impulse spam of old, except impulse didn't get a low health bonus and now physical damage can't be mitigated through the CP tree. Its getting ridiculous

I agree with you except for the last part. Alot of people don't slot spike armor or unstoppable but it is a great way to increase your armor against physical attacks. Gotta get that major resolve buff.

Frozn senpai !!
Teach me your steelnado ways

Ishammael · October 2015

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

12m AoE
Bonus dmg vs. stunned/snared targets
Execute
Benefits from wpn dmg stacking

Need I say more?

_adhyffbjjjf12 · October 2015

If you take part in a tornado train or worse coordinate on then you are no game player.

Bashev · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Stikato wrote: »

This Meta is AWFUL.

This is the worst incarnation of ESO pvp by a longshot.

Worse than 0 bats cost DKs?
Worse than caltrops negating all siege dmg?
Worse than purge insta death bug?

PvP meta sorta has a way of moving from one bad one meta to another bad one.

It was Sorcs not DK. I know why you dont remebever the sorcs bats cause you never saw them. They were permanately invisible

BigTone · October 2015

Ashnunn wrote: »

Something needs to be done about endless zerg trains spamming steel tornado. Its as bad if not worse than the impulse spam of old, except impulse didn't get a low health bonus and now physical damage can't be mitigated through the CP tree. Its getting ridiculous

More damage than impulse, greater range, and execute

Lamiai · October 2015

the real question is how many threads on this topic does it take for a response from the devs..the players clearly are fed up at this stage, i myself cant be bothered to PvP as it is seriously no fun anymore

Gilvoth · October 2015

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

i agree with you, i play PC and i basicly live in cryodiil and im in cryodiil on a constant basis and i myself have never seen what this thread topic is describing.

Maulkin · October 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

i agree with you, i play PC and i basicly live in cryodiil and im in cryodiil on a constant basis and i myself have never seen what this thread topic is describing.

lol

reften · October 2015

train is a train, nerf WB/ST, they'll use something else and still win.

Recremen · October 2015

They're probably using a lot more than steel tornado, but I can understand the confusion if you die too fast to it to notice. While Steel Tornado will be one of the primary damage attacks, there are a lot of other skills that organized groups use, and it gets more and more complex when you're fighting a better group. But against more casual players you're not going to see much more than proxy det, nado, some kind of immobilize, and healing springs until it's time for cleanup, then you might see some single-target stuff.

If any of the other AoE skills in the game were good, you'd see a better mix, but right now they aren't. What are people going to do, spam that worthless two-handed cone AoE? Or impulse, with its tiny range and tinier damage? Other class-ability AoE that also do crap for damage? Nah, you don't win fights by wishing on a star and hoping that bad skills will suddenly turn good, just this once. All we can do is tell ZOS that we're "unsatisfied with the damage of Cleave" and stuff like that, then wait around and hope for a buff.

Ishammael · October 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

i agree with you, i play PC and i basicly live in cryodiil and im in cryodiil on a constant basis and i myself have never seen what this thread topic is describing.

what game are you playing?

ScarecrowBoat · October 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

i agree with you, i play PC and i basicly live in cryodiil and im in cryodiil on a constant basis and i myself have never seen what this thread topic is describing.

what game are you playing?

Master_Kas · October 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

I play PvP daily on Xbox and have not once seen this occur. Mind explaining what's so great about a group using Steel Tornado? I haven't touched the skill since the update because my new character doesn't use Dual Wield.

i agree with you, i play PC and i basicly live in cryodiil and im in cryodiil on a constant basis and i myself have never seen what this thread topic is describing.

WitchyWarrior · October 2015

Yes! Last night my death recaps were pretty much:

Steel Tornado, Steel Tornado, Steel Tornado, Prox Det. Steel tornado.

Maulkin · October 2015

reften wrote: »

train is a train, nerf WB/ST, they'll use something else and still win.

So... your argument is that since the train will win, we might as well make it easier for them?

Also, bad trains got absolutely murdered in versions 1 - 1.4, because of upurgeable oil catapults, ground oils and Negates, uncapped Streak, uncapped Nova etc. Since then every counter got nerfed and the only thing that keeps getting stronger is PBAoEs which is what the trains love.

Trains don't always win. Just give us the mechanics that will at least give us a chance against the bad ones

Ishammael · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

reften wrote: »

train is a train, nerf WB/ST, they'll use something else and still win.

So... your argument is that since the train will win, we might as well make it easier for them?

Also, bad trains got absolutely murdered in versions 1 - 1.4, because of upurgeable oil catapults, ground oils and Negates, uncapped Streak, uncapped Nova etc. Since then every counter got nerfed and the only thing that keeps getting stronger is PBAoEs which is what the trains love.

Trains don't always win. Just give us the mechanics that will at least give us a chance against the bad ones

dynamic ultimate!

Warraxx · October 2015

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

I ran into a train a few nights ago...well actually it ran over me.

<img src="http://i60.tinypic.com/34ryghz.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic">

Oh and the those were two different alliance rank 25 Colonels so i wasn't just standing there. Although I probably should have had some better SA as I was trying to finish off a target and didn't see the Choo Choo coming. LOL

MrGrimey · October 2015

At the end of the day, this is a Zerg issue, not a steel tornado issue. Nobody complains about steel tornado in a 1v1. Zergs need an adjustment/nerf, not steel tornado

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

1 v 1 Steel Tornado with caltrops is a nightmare for a magicka melee nb. Not saying it should be nerfed per say because I don't play any other class or flavor of a class. Maybe other classes have no problems with it. But there is no doubt its the new impulse. And the fact that it has a built in execute is really nifty...or maybe silly was the word I was looking for

Shelgon · October 2015

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

1 v 1 Steel Tornado with caltrops is a nightmare for a magicka melee nb. Not saying it should be nerfed per say because I don't play any other class or flavor of a class. Maybe other classes have no problems with it. But there is no doubt its the new impulse. And the fact that it has a built in execute is really nifty...or maybe silly was the word I was looking for

Having a hard counter to your build that isn't a armor set doesn't mean it's OP, it means you should fix your build.

As for steel tornado, I agree with @MrGrimey.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · October 2015

My solution to stop trains is the ability to set traps. Personally I would prefer it to be a specialization of the NB class, but if you want to make it a general skill line then fair enough. But a trapper will be able to trap a specific area, say behind an outer wall where the enemy are hitting, go into sneak and wait for the wall to collapse and for the train to come pouring through.

The trapper has to be in the area for the traps to remain active, if the trapper moves a certain distance from the
traps they are disabled.

The train comes through, the traps trigger and all hell breaks loose.

Can also be done in the wilderness, and it would take great tactics to pull the train through the minefield that has been created.

If this gets implemented, then I see groups forming to perform specific tasks within PvP and not be a case of creating groups that look like a bunch of Millwall Supporters in the 1980s.

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

Shelgon wrote: »

Having a hard counter to your build that isn't a armor set doesn't mean it's OP, it means you should fix your build.

As for steel tornado, I agree with @MrGrimey.

I thought that was what I was saying LOL. Sometimes you can't "fix" your build for every opponent though. You need to know who to avoid if possible. Let's be honest though, Steel Tornado is really, really powerful, both 1 v 1 and on the tracks.

Just for fun here is another choo choo pic. This was a potato train that I should have avoided but didn't.

eliisra · October 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

At the end of the day, this is a Zerg issue, not a steel tornado issue. Nobody complains about steel tornado in a 1v1. Zergs need an adjustment/nerf, not steel tornado

That's what everyone said about Impulse to in 1.4, when that was the main dps spam in every single PvP raid.

ZoS did not listen. Impulse got nerfed to ***, shortly after. According to them, because it highly outperformed other AoE abilities.

Made little difference in PvP of course, raids found new stuff to spam. But really affected magicka builds AoE in PvE.

Now Steel Tornado highly outperforms all other AoE abilities in PvP and PvE. Proxi does have max burst, but needs timing, skill and easy to avoid. Tornado you can mash, immune to Negate and that wins in the long run.

You think ZoS will fix the "zerg issue" or make Steel Tornado more in line with other AoE's? Consider, they had almost 1.5 year by now to fix the zerg issue