Darnathian wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Fenrlr wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

because I wouldn't even feel like I had accomplished a single thing if I won.

That's the same reason i decided to never roll a sorc

I've been a sorc since the day I started playing the game and I'm currently levelling a Templar because I'm tired of people saying that. Yes we have shields and stack them well over 30k, we deal HUGE damage and never take any back because we can streak away from danger as much as we want and shield again, we have infinite magicka pools and we never EVER have to block because shields. (Got a bit carried away sorry)

To sit and say that it doesn't take any skill to play sorc is completely ridiculous.

That's the problem. Chou shouldn't have to reroll. Help us find balance. Come up with ideas to help fix the problem. In this case it is shield stacking

What changed that wasn't here at the beginning of the game allowing this? The damn champion system. The only viable counter was to attack their stamina. champion system fix led that. Along with guardian set. I literally had a guy that I burnt with my Magicka DK /t me that watch out. Once he got his cp's up he would ..... my face. Turns out he was right.

I'm all for being able to crit shields, I think that would be a lot more of a balance than shieldbreaker anyway, 100% mitigation with a crit would seem reasonable against shields and I see that as being more of a fix IMO.

How does that fix it though? The. The sorc just recasts in a second. The. When it doesn't crit you are dead

With being able to crit shields you could do a lot more damage to them because as I've ALREADY SAID (feel like a broken record on the forum) you get 100% mitigation and then the crit on top of that would do nice damage overall but to simply just be able to go through the shield with up to 10k damage is disgusting and should never have been what SB was.

Not really in the mood for typing essays again for people who clearly haven't read what I've wrote but as I've spoofed your other post I'll tell you the my name is The Bald Mage and if you haven't heard of me IDGAF. Keep defending SB all you like but at some point or another your gona realise yourself how stupid this set is when your team fires a healing ward on you and your a non vamp but still take like 8k damage just from your team trying to give you a helping hand. Yes it does most affect sorcs but your all gona get a death from it at some point just a lot less than us.

B R O K E N.

Then read all my posts hypocrit. Long before shield breaker came out I was advocating removing shield stacking. You ignore that just like all the other sorcs because that would bring balance. But sorcs just want to hide behind their shields.

Critable shields is a solution. Just not the best one.

The problem with non stackable shields would be:

1. They´d have to rework harnessmagica / dampen magic. A magica only shield that can not be combined with other shields it pretty obsolete with the popularity of stamina builds currently.
2. Healing ward would have to be reworked as you could no longer reliably heal allies if they had a shield for themselves. ZOS once stated they liked the healingward mechanic bc it was different from templar bol healing.

These two things make unstackable shields highly unlikely as they´d require work and rebalancing.
I´m all for unstackable shields though. I hate sorcs hiding behind harness + hardened and healingward once they drop low. Still most of them die anyways.

What's funny is that stamina users got the SB set, instead of magic users who need it much more.

Edit: I'm not advocating for SB set at all, but magicka users should have gotten SB if they had to release the stupid set.

I thought about that on my dk but I will not do it. The set needs to go. It was a terrible bandaid and unfair to shield users. Don't hate on players for using tools Zos gave them though.

Agreed, just hope ZOS remembers this for the future, you use skills to counter skills, not just passively wearing something to flip a whole system in game on its head.

so i recently got rid of my shield breaker set. and good sorcerers are immortal now. i have 3k weapon damage buffed (nb) so could use alittle bit better gear still but i'm doing pretty well. how am i supose to beat a class that has the
- best mobility that also stuns everyone around them making it hard to chase even with gap closer spam
- does more damage than anyone else i come across and they do it from RANGE, because of this insane pressure its hard to keep dpsing them
- can take more damage than a dk.

you have to cc them just to be able to do any damage to them and you cant cc them long enough to break through all their shields. sure they have low stam but it doesnt matter as soon as theyre out of you're cc they bolt away with cc immunity.
and when you get close to them you have to deal with their daedric mine spam.

i agree that shield breaker is a stupid bandaid fix but it seems like the only viable set to beat a good sorc.

any advice, tips, strategy to beat a sorc 1v1?

I´ll add a little anecdote into this thread:

Sorcs are no longer the allmighty wonders of shielded tankyness they were in 1.6 (to some extend). When we´re running with our group and fighting other players (anything that exceeds a 1v1 situation really and involves stamina builds) I´m the squishiest char in the grp as a magica sorcerer.
Sorcerer survivability nowadays relies a lot (even more) on kiting than it used to while being somewhat nerfed in that regard. You´re not able to escape a capable stamina build anymore without completely withdrawing from a fight and even then you need los and a little luck.


Shields and sorcs might still be considered op in certain situation but this is mainly the case for:

1v1 - you can´t break a fully defensive sorc unless you´re taking a gamble with your own build (that being said - it´s the same for a fully defensive DK, and Templar - NB has to avoid getting beaten which they can do pretty well but they usually can´t just take it unless using special builds). The gamble are very high burst builds which maybe able to just overpower a defensive player. That being said these builds normally can´t keep up the pressure and i´d estimate their chances at winning at about 30:70 depending on the player they´re up against (I think not being tied in winning chances is a good thing - normally these type of high dmg builds have the edge by initiating the fight).

Edit2: This is why sorc might still seem OP in certain 1vX situations. You can mainly force every fight into a 1v1 by kiting if the enemies let you do this and don´t pay attention.

Magica builds vs Sorcs. Any magica build will still struggle immensely against a sorcerer (if the sorc chooses to utilize harness on top of hardened ward). Harness magica is cost neutral in the worst case and normally is extra magica for every cast.
If harness is not being used hardened is a good defense ability but not completely out of touch when compared to other mechanics (I admit it´s easy to use when compared to cloak/dodge/reflect and maybe comparable to breath of life - which has it´s own benefits).
Harness magica is an ability in need of a complete overhaul in my opinion. It´s the only armor buff lacking universal usefulness but has few situation where it´s completely overpowered.

Edit: I might have to add that it´s still possible for nightblades and other sorcs to kill magica sorcerers as they can achieve enough burst or pressure needed. It´s hard or nearly impossible for templar and dk as they´re not burst focused (for templar it´s a special case as jabs/sweep is bugged and does not apply 140% extra dmg on shields - which is just sad).


Against anyone utilizing (very) low dmg builds or being battleleveled it´s pretty much impossible to die (this again holds true to every other build).

ToRelax wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

so i recently got rid of my shield breaker set. and good sorcerers are immortal now. i have 3k weapon damage buffed (nb) so could use alittle bit better gear still but i'm doing pretty well. how am i supose to beat a class that has the
- best mobility that also stuns everyone around them making it hard to chase even with gap closer spam
- does more damage than anyone else i come across and they do it from RANGE, because of this insane pressure its hard to keep dpsing them
- can take more damage than a dk.

you have to cc them just to be able to do any damage to them and you cant cc them long enough to break through all their shields. sure they have low stam but it doesnt matter as soon as theyre out of you're cc they bolt away with cc immunity.
and when you get close to them you have to deal with their daedric mine spam.

i agree that shield breaker is a stupid bandaid fix but it seems like the only viable set to beat a good sorc.

any advice, tips, strategy to beat a sorc 1v1?

I usually draw out the fight a bit, when I feel they might be uncareful I lower the shield a bit with Swallow Soul then go Meteor -> Fear -> Assassin's Will and finish with Swalllow Soul/Impale.

i'm stamblade using dw/2hander atm. i need an agility ring and bow before i go back to 2hander+bow which makes sorc abit easier to deal with. but yeah as melee only stamblade its almost impossible to beat a good sorc. unless im doing it wrong. tips to kill a sorc without shield breaker set would be highly appriciated.

Alucardo wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Not even, it takes about 10 min to buy a set of shield breaker from guild stores. Another 10 min for load screens if you want to scope out the best prices. Boom, done, zero effort. Not many players are gona do that? That statement is so wrong you are either woefully ignorant or deliberately downplaying it.

Actually it took me around 5.5 hours to get. I don't group and join sewer zergs, so collecting TV stones is a lot trickier. It was also harder considering the guy I did it with was level 39, but anyway.
Ultimately I did not want to buy Shield Breaker - as stated, it's a one trick pony and not overly useful long term. I was kind of looking for something similar to Hundings, but that I could buy with TV stones until I had my 6 traits researched. Unfortunately the other sets looked pretty crappy for what I was going for, so I chose SB in the meantime.

Teargrants wrote: »

You are aware that he is the same person who said people melt in Wall of Elements?

On a lighter side to this thread, this made me laugh. Thanks Eric.

sorry but that is completly wrong - actually it is the hihgest dmg increasing set available to a pvper. no other set offers as much dmg increasement with one single setbonus (as the 2-4set bonis are nice anyway)
you may ask why...
thx to CP points:
your opponent starts blocking = free 2100dmg
your opponent drinks a potion = free 2100dmg
your opponent recieved a rezz = free 2100 dmg
the omnipresent healingward, light armor shields, shield procs(whitestrakes) what ever leeds to free 2100 dmg to compensate only one proc per fight wich is absolutly common requieres ~10 additional attacks (with a set providing an additional weapondmg set bonus) ... not mentioning bleed through camouflaged hunters etc...

so I just had a fun encounter in the IC. 3 randoms (v14 v10 and v16) and me nb(v16) ran into a v16 sorc and templar. we were fighting in a building and the sorc wasnt running or kiting. just streaking around and tanking our damage. it took us 5 minutes to kill the sorc. in that time the templar came back 5 times and died within 10 seconds of coming back. so a templar dies in 10 seconds from the damage that takes 5 minutes! to kill a shield stackign sorc. she wasnt good or doing anything special. just the same *** every sorc does. endless streaking and somehow endless stamina to get out of our cc (i was fearing her every chance i could to force the cc break)

shields need fixed. until then ill be using the only set in the game that makes sorcerers killable... if you're lucky

I'd like to fight a good NB on NA sometime this weekend on my Sorc to see if there is any truth to all of this despair I hear from my fellow sorcs. My exposure to fighting people with this set is limited to 1vX scenarios and I wasn't impressed with it at all.

If you consider yourself a top notch stamina player who is running this set on DC or EP (with 500 CPs or less, no point in going up against a couple those 2K+ CP NBs running around unless you want to drop to 500) I'd like to see how all of the "good" players are using it and see if I can counter it with my regular PvP build or not.

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, being a Sorc and all, I of course am not the biggest fan of the set (Cpt Obvious).

I've kinda learned to live with it. I don't really mind the melee damage (unless it's coming from a DK) but the ranged with the bow.

Speaking of the DK... a stamina S&B DK with Shield Breaker and good sustain both magicka and stamina wise is the hard counter to almost any Sorc build:
- Very strong physical damage with double anim cancel (la+skill+bash) and the only phys dmg ultimate (Take Flight)
- Shield Breaker bypassing shields
- Reverberating Bash cutting whatever pitiful heals you have
- Scales reflecting all your hard hitters.

Hell, I'm leveling one myself

Well they´re basically hardcountering every ranged build available while having the best stamina sustain in the game if redguard...
For dueling there is no better class to be found.

Which is why I'm leveling a Redguard Stamina DK.

Maulkin The Rastafarian is coming like a wrecking ball

*cough* fotm *cough*

I know, I know

I need a break from the Sorc man, I've been Sorcing for 90% of the time for the last 14 months. Went from rank 1 to rank 33 playing solo.

I brought up that manablade for a bit of variety. It's super strong, especially in IC, but pressing that Cloak button every 2" is not for me it seems. I know it's not much different on Sorc applying shields all the time, but it's a preference thing.

I prefer being in peoples faces than weaving in and out of view constantly. I prefer having them screaming "Focus that fecking Sorc!" than "Where is that fecking NB?". I think, being a Sorc yourself, you know what I mean.

Also, I'm keen to try my first stam build. I think it'll make me see some things from a different PoV too.

No reason to go DK when you can go NB and do everything better...without cloak.

I just don't understand how people are having issues with this set unless they're fighting 2 or more players with it or something.

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

I beg to differ. I think a stam DK can do a lot of things better than a stamblade, outside of cloak.

Namely 42% extra healing through Igneous Shield + Burning Heart passive. Or better defense from projectiles through Scales. Or the best DoTs in the game through Unstable Flame and Burning Breath. Or the best physical damage ultimate with Take Flight. Or (built correctly and with enough CPs) the ability to create a build with decent sustain using food instead of drinks, thanks to Helping Hands passive.

Such build is hard to master but it thrives in a small group as the sustain is good enough and the burst damage with ~40k stamina is off the scales.

Regarding the 2nd part of the question, the shield breaker, the problem is two-fold. In 1vX it's certainly a big problem as you can imagine, I don't think I need to explain why. For 1v1s you set up differently if you know your opponent is running shield breaker.

Since someone with shield breaker is de facto a stam build, you replace Harness Magicka with either Rapid Regen or Dark Conversion and things become manageable. But again in 1v1s people won't just spam light attacks, they will apply constant DPS pressure of which light attacks and shield breaker is only part of. The advantage such build has is pretty big, but a Sorc in good hands can still prevail.

For normal PvP running triple shields is still more effective than running 2 shields and a HoT. Overall there are way more magicka builds than there stamina shield breaker bow builds. So harness magicka is more useful. Also the nature of open PvP is that you will get focused by more than 1 person at a time. So Rapid Regen might be very helpful against a single opponent with shield breaker but not so much useful against multiple opponents.

Edit: Power Surge is a must for magicka sorcs these days, if people are not running this I don't know what they are doing. That said there is an issue which is that mines don't proc power surge because the game thinks they are a DoTs. So the only heals you get from mines are through blood magic and that's kinda small in PvP. Fixing that would go a long way towards helping Sorcs in duels.

The NB class has some of the best Passives in the game.10% Weapon Damage while stealth/invis, 2519 Crit Strike Rating(4% crit) for each assassination ability slotted, 10% bonus crit damage, Minor Savagery (1% Crit), shadow barrier (Mjaor Ward/Resolve for 4 seconds after casting a shadow ability), refreshing shadows 15% regen to all

Double-take: 20 Seconds of 20% Evasion, 4 Seconds of Major Expedition, 2519 Crit Strike rating

Piercing Mark: Makes killing nightblades who rely on cloak a walk in the part

Incapacitating Strike: Cheapest ult in the game, high damage provides major defile, 2519 Crit strike rating

Mass Hysteria: AoE Cc with no need to target that maims your targets and snares as well as puts your targets "offbalance" for exploiter champion passive

Dark Cloak: Invis, Removes dots(like Unstable Flame/Burning breath), grants shadow barrier

Suprise attack: Highest damage class stamina attack in game. Grants major fracture, Shadow Barrier, stuns and provides offbalance when used from cloak/stealth

Dots in general are very weak because they don't hit through shields if I recall, can be removed by cloak, and are reduced by both Hardy and Thick skinned. Take flight is great when it lands but I often dodge roll it which for an ult that costs that much makes it less effective against skilled player (I still remember Krotha whining in his twitch when I dodged his Take flight and he was swearing it bugged out on him because he evidently isn't away it is dodgeable)

I just don't find the DKs passives and abilities all that strong, I'm sure they can do great in dueling scenario because they're very single target oriented but they lack the mobility and have no escape, maim effect, and any decent source of defile(RIP Standard) without using reverberating bash.

Scales are nice but they are easy to counter, aren't spammable with a stam build and if you're using the dragon fire morph end up increasing the damage done to you when double-reflected.

I've come across some of the top Stam DKs in the game but I fear the good Stam NBs far more when I see them.

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

Correction, unstable flame pulls you out of cloak. The single target one.

Did a few tests with a DK yesterday to confirm :P ^^

ToRelax wrote: »

ebethke_ESO wrote: »

I'd personally prefer to see the set removed, and sorcerer hardened ward be significantly lowered.

The meta is still such that hardened ward alone can be over 10k. Shield breaker was a poor solution (that hurt all class/general shields). What the game actually needed was for hardened ward to be adjusted. Currently the situation is the same (insane shield strength that is very hard to go through) except when sorcerers run into a person who is running this set. What would be better is to bring hardened more in line with other shields and not have this set (that you have to build for?).

I'm sure many would argue that hardened's current strength is essential because of the typical reasonings (sorcs have no heal, squishy without it, etc. etc.). This is actually how other magicka builds (DK, NB) currently are. Magicka sorcerer survival is still ridiculously easy and powerful unless one encounters this set.

Hardened Ward makes you tankier because it's preemptive as opposed to Rushed Ceremony and NB is especially squishy because if your Cloak is broken, it's gone. But both don't mean that Hardened Ward is actually the more powerful ability.
I'd much rather have either of the other two on my Sorc instead.

Angarato wrote: »

the real issue is that alot of sorcs thought they were good at pvp but werent. now they die as hard and fast as everyone else (only to people with shield breaker tho) its hard to adjust to such a huge blow to their ego. they thought they were gods but they were just trash. its a hard pill to swallow.

in other news good sorcs still *** on everything and everyone. maybe follow one around and see what they do. or reroll another class and realise the grass isnt greener. go ahead reroll that nb and cloak spam. ill just use 1 of the many many counters to your cloak and destroy you cause you dont have any class-based shields.

just in case you were wondering, I was using shield breaker but replaced it for another set cause i missed having a GOOD set bonus that helped against everything(including GOOD sorcs) not just bad sorcs.)

@Angarato are you EU? I'd love to duel you with me Cloak spamming NB that you can counter so easily.

I can duel you, mark target (unless you are spamming purge, but mark is cheaper huehue)

Darnathian wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'd like to fight a good NB on NA sometime this weekend on my Sorc to see if there is any truth to all of this despair I hear from my fellow sorcs. My exposure to fighting people with this set is limited to 1vX scenarios and I wasn't impressed with it at all.

If you consider yourself a top notch stamina player who is running this set on DC or EP (with 500 CPs or less, no point in going up against a couple those 2K+ CP NBs running around unless you want to drop to 500) I'd like to see how all of the "good" players are using it and see if I can counter it with my regular PvP build or not.

We need more of this. The elite pvpers testing this stuff and presenting unbiased opinions. Since Zos obviously is too cheap to hire a QA team that actually knows how to pvp. I guess their rediculous profits are not enough yet

Would love to see vids of this. If anyone felt up to it I also have something I would be interested in having people test. From my experience it seems Radiant Magelight only triggers once a second, sort of like how lightning form only deals its aoe damage once a second. I say this since sometimes a nb will cloak and instantly have their cloak broken (they cloaked before the tick) or they cloak an have plenty of time to move away between ticks. Anyone want to prove me paranoid?

Ezareth wrote: »

I'd like to fight a good NB on NA sometime this weekend on my Sorc to see if there is any truth to all of this despair I hear from my fellow sorcs. My exposure to fighting people with this set is limited to 1vX scenarios and I wasn't impressed with it at all.

If you consider yourself a top notch stamina player who is running this set on DC or EP (with 500 CPs or less, no point in going up against a couple those 2K+ CP NBs running around unless you want to drop to 500) I'd like to see how all of the "good" players are using it and see if I can counter it with my regular PvP build or not.

You should fight a good stam DK with it. That´s where the pain is at. NBs are only a pain in Xv1 when they spam bow and run as soon as you try to hunt them down.

CP5 wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

I'd like to fight a good NB on NA sometime this weekend on my Sorc to see if there is any truth to all of this despair I hear from my fellow sorcs. My exposure to fighting people with this set is limited to 1vX scenarios and I wasn't impressed with it at all.

If you consider yourself a top notch stamina player who is running this set on DC or EP (with 500 CPs or less, no point in going up against a couple those 2K+ CP NBs running around unless you want to drop to 500) I'd like to see how all of the "good" players are using it and see if I can counter it with my regular PvP build or not.

We need more of this. The elite pvpers testing this stuff and presenting unbiased opinions. Since Zos obviously is too cheap to hire a QA team that actually knows how to pvp. I guess their rediculous profits are not enough yet

Would love to see vids of this. If anyone felt up to it I also have something I would be interested in having people test. From my experience it seems Radiant Magelight only triggers once a second, sort of like how lightning form only deals its aoe damage once a second. I say this since sometimes a nb will cloak and instantly have their cloak broken (they cloaked before the tick) or they cloak an have plenty of time to move away between ticks. Anyone want to prove me paranoid?

I've been using magelight and can confirm that this sensation is indeed a thing. I carry an AoE on me to ensure they stay out of cloak, but I'd be down to test this with you if you're DC/AD on NA.

Ezareth wrote: »

thelordoffelines wrote: »

Angarato wrote: »

so i recently got rid of my shield breaker set. and good sorcerers are immortal now. i have 3k weapon damage buffed (nb) so could use alittle bit better gear still but i'm doing pretty well. how am i supose to beat a class that has the
- best mobility that also stuns everyone around them making it hard to chase even with gap closer spam
- does more damage than anyone else i come across and they do it from RANGE, because of this insane pressure its hard to keep dpsing them
- can take more damage than a dk.

you have to cc them just to be able to do any damage to them and you cant cc them long enough to break through all their shields. sure they have low stam but it doesnt matter as soon as theyre out of you're cc they bolt away with cc immunity.
and when you get close to them you have to deal with their daedric mine spam.

i agree that shield breaker is a stupid bandaid fix but it seems like the only viable set to beat a good sorc.

any advice, tips, strategy to beat a sorc 1v1?

Magicka night blades with concealed weapon+cloak+speed buff have the best mobility now.

I'd like to see a Magicka Nightblade keep up with me in my 7/7 Medium Stamina build. Windrunning and Permanent Sprint + Doubletake with maximum speed bonus plus Forward Momentum to purge any snares....the only way I could be faster is to be an Orc or to use that terrible set that gives sprint speed. FENGRUSH is the only player I've seen (slightly) faster and well...he's an Orc.

I'd be down to test this with you as well, using my magicka NB fully buffed.

A stam build with snare purge that wants to escape, will escape just fine. The end result is escaping, the how you do it doesn't have to be the same for everyone.

Waseem wrote: »

the shield breaker set is fine as it is.
thing is you are using the same pvp strategy and same skill lines all the time, change your skill lines and adapt with the change. dont come cry on forums if you cant be dominant.

I´ll use that argument when cloak and eventually breath of life get nerfed.

"Yadda, yadda - but the class is built around that!!!"
"Ah come on guys don´t be lazy just adapt and get gud."

Waseem wrote: »

the shield breaker set is fine as it is.
thing is you are using the same pvp strategy and same skill lines all the time, change your skill lines and adapt with the change. dont come cry on forums if you cant be dominant.

Please outline for me the specific new pvp strategies and new skill lines I'm supposed to make use of. Don't come on the forums and make divisive claims if you aren't going to substantiate them.