The ESO Live's Twitch Chatbox is disgusting

BaldusMageezack · October 2015

People have all right to express their opinions. That's the internet. Don't like it? well it's completely optional so opt out then. People aren't going to fit with your narrow view of how things should be. Should be is a dream, an Idea. What you have is how it is and nothing will change it.

tinythinker · October 2015

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

People just want to be heard.

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

In other words you want them to sit quietly and conform to your will. Not gonna happen. People do what they want and you can't bend them to your will. The best thing you can do is accept it.

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

People have all right to express their opinions. That's the internet. Don't like it? well it's completely optional so opt out then. People aren't going to fit with your narrow view of how things should be. Should be is a dream, an Idea. What you have is how it is and nothing will change it.

BaldusMageezack · October 2015

tinythinker wrote: »

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

People just want to be heard.

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

In other words you want them to sit quietly and conform to your will. Not gonna happen. People do what they want and you can't bend them to your will. The best thing you can do is accept it.

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

People have all right to express their opinions. That's the internet. Don't like it? well it's completely optional so opt out then. People aren't going to fit with your narrow view of how things should be. Should be is a dream, an Idea. What you have is how it is and nothing will change it.

I wish people were motivated enough to fight the power lol. Oh well I'll just go to moe's

tinythinker · October 2015

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

People just want to be heard.

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

In other words you want them to sit quietly and conform to your will. Not gonna happen. People do what they want and you can't bend them to your will. The best thing you can do is accept it.

BaldusMageezack wrote: »

People have all right to express their opinions. That's the internet. Don't like it? well it's completely optional so opt out then. People aren't going to fit with your narrow view of how things should be. Should be is a dream, an Idea. What you have is how it is and nothing will change it.

I wish people were motivated enough to fight the power lol. Oh well I'll just go to moe's

They are too busy playing video games

FENGRUSH · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

I created a Twitch account and upgraded it to Turbo for the sole purpose of watching my first ESO live. Consider me dissapointed. We had about 15 minutes of rehashing topics that were already known and understood by most of active players and the rest of the segment was devoted to Osrinium artwork.

There was practically zero interacting between ZoS and the community watching the stream and you could see a rapid dropoff of users from 1250 to 700 after 30 minutes of artwork shots. I talked to and listened to a ton of players who mentioned the podcast afterward and they were universally disappointed, many of them even angry.

I've got no problem with the art team (They're the reason ESO is one of the best looking RPGs out there) and showing their work, but that at most is going to keep people entertained for 15-20 minutes. Most people who are watching the Twitch stream have a lot of questions and are interested in the future of the game and the direction it is headed. The only piece of information that we learned in that stream that I recall was the seasonal cap is probably going to be every quarter and will raise the CP cap by ~200 points or so. Beyond that, everything was old news and fluff.

I think if ZoS doesn't have significant content to publish for a podcast in the future, they should just not do the podcast. People will not mind. But it is clear from watching this podcast that it was just thrown together last minute (and evidenced by the art guy getting last minute permission from his wife to appear on the show). I hope you guys can improve on this in the future, there may have been other circumstances for the odd time and such that I'm unaware of that threw you off your game...

Well said.

A lot of viewers spilled in from streams. Streams that advocate for arena pvp amongst other things. Sypher brings in lots of viewers - at least half of ESO live was from him when he hosted it.

While people may disagree with how those people are expressing themselves, they're expressing what they want. Its not like arenas is a new issue either. At this point if ZOS says theyre not working on it or dont want, its a failure to listen to their community. If you think those people spamming PvP arenas care about how you perceive their spamming, I can safely say they dont. That isnt something Ive seen a lot of on the stream before - its born out of frustration. People will spam because they dont feel theyre being heard. Its something I discussed on my stream last night and I understand it just as well.

I talk about lots of good balance issues as well - they go unheard. The result is bad changes with unintended consequences. It is ZOS's product, but itd be more wise to work with your community than shut them out because you dont like the way theyve approached you. Theres been plenty of mature and patient suggestions/discussions on the issue. If they see ZOS doesnt care, they get frustrated. When they are frustrated, they riot. This is what twitch allows you to do - express yourself. Understandable you guys find it immature, but that is literally what twitch is, and thats the medium theyre using. Its the same medium that allows many people to come watch the very same streamers that end up selling copies of the game to potential buyers that come by and check the game out.

As @Ezareth mentioned - ESO live was pretty dull. The thing is, there was a podcast with as many viewers or more than ESO live on the game a week ago. ZOS was there (many of the devs, including those on ESO Live). They said they heard us, they were listening. They said the same thing in the stream last night to people spamming. Yet they only receive silence.

Hope that explains the behavior and mindset of those in chat.

Ezareth · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

@Ezareth : I watched the podcast and found it very interesting from beginning to end (apart from the giveaways).

So please to not say "we" or "us" when you should say "I" because it's just your opinion and yours alone.

I'm glad you enjoyed the podcast as well as others. As it happens none of the people in my circles enjoyed it and everyone universally complained about how long the art segment was and how little information there was that was interesting. So when I said "We" or "us" I wasn't alone (although I actually said none of those things).

The first 30 minutes of the podcast were great, but by the end I felt like I was watching the Director's Cut of The Lord of the Rings....full of a bunch of beautiful scenery, much talking and no action.

And for the Record on The PvP arena, I was keeping tabs on the whole "Arena" Spam and it was about 8-10 players who continued to type it for much of the segment. I had no idea what it was about although I expressed my support for an Arena once in chat while I was present. The Majority of the PvP community did not spam chat, so to those of you who are lumping us all in that crowd, you are mistaken.

Hiero_Glyph · October 2015

I just want to state that this type of behavior is the byproduct of ZOS having horrible communication with the ESO community. While ZOS has every right to select the type of questions they want to answer during a stream they should not utterly ignore major issues that the community is experiencing. The result is that when a stream occurs players feel this is their only chance to get a response from ZOS. In turn, ZOS has stoppedd asking for community questions which only makes the next stream all the worse. What you are seeing is 100% the fault of ZOS for failing to properly communicate with this community in a meaningful and consistent manner. PvP arenas are a hot topic currently, as is console text chat, AoE caps, etc.

In truth this is no different than having ZOS talk about removing the skill reset due to console players complaining about it when in truth ZOS never once communicated to the console community that a skill reset would occur. The only communication they provided was a forum post about the issue and they did not use any in-game communication to even inform the players that the thread existed, let alone directly tell them about the skill reset.

I hate to say it but behavior like this is learned over time and when the community is continually ignored time and time again they resort to more direct methods of trying to get that information. This is just a recent example of how deperate the community has become over getting the information that they want. The only way to prevent this type of behavior in the future is for ZOS to actually communicate with the community in a meaningful and consistent manner.

Tandor · October 2015

Whenever I watch ESO Live I go full screen. One look at the chat was enough, thank you very much.

It has nothing to do with how ZOS communicate, but everything to do with how the people in chat communicate. People need to quit making excuses for their behaviour and recognise that at present there's not a single reason for ZOS to communicate because they know exactly what they let themselves in for every time they do so. Why should they tolerate abuse in their job that no player would be willing to tolerate in his?

Ezareth · October 2015

Tandor wrote: »

Why should they tolerate abuse in their job that no player would be willing to tolerate in his?

I take it you haven't worked very long....ever hear the phrase "the customer is always right?"

There is no excuse for degrading another human being.

However, the success of a thriving company is often determined not by how they handle their satisfied customers, but how they address those customers who are not satisfied or even disgruntled.

Xjcon · October 2015

If you go back before CP was introduced the Devs were on here more talking about things, they caught a ton of flack over a few misunderstandings/Administrative changes. It's no wonder they carefully choose what questions to answer.

Another thing that happens is people spread false information. While I get that PVP players want WoW style Arenas (myself included) they already stated awhile back that they have no plans to work on it and if they even started I'm sure it would be well over a year before they would be able to implement it in the game.

All that will happen when people act like they did in the stream is a knee jerk reaction that ruins it for us all.

J2JMC · October 2015

Twitch chat is why consoles can't have text chat...Kappa

Hiero_Glyph · October 2015

J2JMC wrote: »

Twitch chat is why consoles can't have text chat...Kappa

Haha, just try typing PvP Arena in text chat on PC, I bet it's already a bannable keyword. Seriously though, the PC community is spearheading the arena campaign, consoles are too busy trying to get text chat and customized controller support (things PC already has/will get).

Shad0wfire99 · October 2015

This is why console players don't want text chat as much as they think they do. And I'm on console.

Tandor · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why should they tolerate abuse in their job that no player would be willing to tolerate in his?

I take it you haven't worked very long.....

Just over 42 years actually, until I retired at the end of last year. You?

Hiero_Glyph · October 2015

statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is why console players don't want text chat as much as they think they do. And I'm on console.

Bot support, chat logss to confirm reported behavior, mute options, private channels... Yeah, text chat will be utterly toxic on consoles. [/sarcasm]

stevenbennett_ESO · October 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

While people may disagree with how those people are expressing themselves, they're expressing what they want. Its not like arenas is a new issue either. At this point if ZOS says theyre not working on it or dont want, its a failure to listen to their community. If you think those people spamming PvP arenas care about how you perceive their spamming, I can safely say they dont. That isnt something Ive seen a lot of on the stream before - its born out of frustration. People will spam because they dont feel theyre being heard. Its something I discussed on my stream last night and I understand it just as well.

I understand the frustration. However, most people should have learned from a young age that this kind of spam doesn't make it more likely for them to be heard - it makes it LESS likely. Repetition tends to be filtered out. Things that annoy you tend to be filtered out. To be heard requires a cohesive, well stated argument, presented in an appropriate venue. (And an ESO Live stream with a specific stated set of topics that don't even remotely relate to the issue they're spamming about is hardly an appropriate venue.)

If these people want to be heard, these forums are a far more appropriate venue. And instead of simply chanting "PvP Arena", perhaps if they wrote up a really good discussion stating strong reasons WHY such a thing is a good and necessary idea for the game as a whole (I've been reading these forums since Beta and have yet to see a good one...), they might actually manage to influence future development towards what they want.

Shad0wfire99 · October 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

statisticalanomaly13ub17_ESO wrote: »

This is why console players don't want text chat as much as they think they do. And I'm on console.

Bot support, chat logss to confirm reported behavior, mute options, private channels... Yeah, text chat will be utterly toxic on consoles. [/sarcasm]

Go look at the text chat in Neverwinter. [/nosarcasm]<--[/sarcasm]

MrGrimey · October 2015

So.... When's arena/battlegrounds and dueling? Sounds like people want these basic mmo features?

Ezareth · October 2015

Tandor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why should they tolerate abuse in their job that no player would be willing to tolerate in his?

I take it you haven't worked very long.....

Just over 42 years actually, until I retired at the end of last year. You?

Touché. Only half that but the point remains.

Alucardo · October 2015

I'm really surprised this thread wasn't contaminated with "PVP ARENA" comments. See? Community isn't that bad!

P.S. I would love a PVP arena or something similar.

Wing · October 2015

I understand ZoS does not want to implement 1v1 - 4-4 or any kind of small scale "battlegrounds" or "arenas" because they fear it will detract from Cyrodil (like game modes in shooters, you begin splitting your player base very thin in various game modes and instead of having a good couple hundred people in a game mode you end up with only about 10 in 10 different game modes)

HOWEVER

I think some sort of 1v1 or 4v4 pvp arena would actually be in the benefit of the alliance war as a whole, as there are not enough people interested in that sort of thing to detract from the overall population of Cyrodil. yes I'm aware of the streamers and youtubers, I watch them on occasion too.

for instance, Cyrodil being the large population alliance war that it is balances player skill, someone like sypher vs your average pvp noob, the noob is going to get demolished every time no chance. however, throw sypher into a group of 100 people of various skill levels, and do the same with the pvp noob, and everything starts to even out. in 1v1 its all about you, the pressure is all on you, win or loose is all you and your fault. 100 v 100 and its much less so, etc.

now how would the arena benefit the alliance war?

simple, it would pull the elite pvp'rs out of the alliance war. the average and sub average players will not be able to compete against the likes of lefty, sypher, fengrush, king, etc. in a 1v1 arena. and will not be in to that kind of things. however at the same time it will pull those same people that can by themselves 1vX a lot of the alliance war average players.

it will split the player base between two game modes, yes. but that might not be a bad thing in this case. the elite PvPrs will move to the arena to get the kind of fights they want, free of zerg balls and aoe spams. and the alliance war players will be free of a lot of the few elite players that cause them so much trouble and will even out the alliance war that much more.

I think this could indeed be a healthy thing for the game.

kevlarto_ESO · October 2015

Malmai wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@SleepyTroll Eric actually said the cap is 501 because we needed it to be evenly divisible by 3. (so stam builds don't get 1 extra CP over Magicka)

As for the chat... well that is the internet sometimes heh. You take the good with the bad and have to develop a pretty thick skin doing what we do. I did really appreciate a whisper from a certain person who apologized for some of the more "passionate" PVP folks though.

That is the problem growing thick skin and "#obamacare" for your players. You don't have to grown a thick skin for that just give people what they want entertain us like you should. Nobody wants to experience pain in virtual world we do have a whole lot in real world, so please do something about that.

Problem is you cant give everyone what they want, everyone wants something different, many opinions on what makes the game right for them, the best ZOS can do is try to please as many people as possible, not every update or every bit of new content is going to do that, it is what it is and not matter what they offer there will be negative and nasty remarks.

Kuroinu · October 2015

It comes down to respect and the lack of it many have when they think they're shielded by their anonymous name or avatar.

"It's fun to be nasty when no one knows it's me!" - These types of people have a pathetic state of mind and can be defined with one word, "Cowardice".

In this case the "challenge" being, hiding behind an avatar and remaining respectful whilst voicing your concerns in a constructive manner.

Nifty2g · October 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

@SleepyTroll Eric actually said the cap is 501 because we needed it to be evenly divisible by 3. (so stam builds don't get 1 extra CP over Magicka)

As for the chat... well that is the internet sometimes heh. You take the good with the bad and have to develop a pretty thick skin doing what we do. I did really appreciate a whisper from a certain person who apologized for some of the more "passionate" PVP folks though.

The ESO dev team have 100 points into thick skinned.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

FENGRUSH wrote: »

While people may disagree with how those people are expressing themselves, they're expressing what they want. Its not like arenas is a new issue either. At this point if ZOS says theyre not working on it or dont want, its a failure to listen to their community. If you think those people spamming PvP arenas care about how you perceive their spamming, I can safely say they dont. That isnt something Ive seen a lot of on the stream before - its born out of frustration. People will spam because they dont feel theyre being heard. Its something I discussed on my stream last night and I understand it just as well.

I talk about lots of good balance issues as well - they go unheard. The result is bad changes with unintended consequences. It is ZOS's product, but itd be more wise to work with your community than shut them out because you dont like the way theyve approached you. Theres been plenty of mature and patient suggestions/discussions on the issue. If they see ZOS doesnt care, they get frustrated. When they are frustrated, they riot. This is what twitch allows you to do - express yourself. Understandable you guys find it immature, but that is literally what twitch is, and thats the medium theyre using. Its the same medium that allows many people to come watch the very same streamers that end up selling copies of the game to potential buyers that come by and check the game out.

As @Ezareth mentioned - ESO live was pretty dull. The thing is, there was a podcast with as many viewers or more than ESO live on the game a week ago. ZOS was there (many of the devs, including those on ESO Live). They said they heard us, they were listening. They said the same thing in the stream last night to people spamming. Yet they only receive silence.

Hope that explains the behavior and mindset of those in chat.

I honestly don't think it was a spontaneous "riot" as you say. It crossed my mind that this was initiated and planned by someone who has some sort of audience and "authority" in the PvP world - in other words, someone like you or Sypher or equivalent. Your post here defending them comforts this suspicion.

Don't blame it on the medium : people are responsible for their acts regardless where. If someone behaves like an a**h** he behaves like an a**h** regardless if IRL or on the internet or wherever. Internet's anonymity prevents them from further consequences but doesn't change the nature of the act. (Be careful though, because if they don't have anything to lose, you personally have an image to protect and take care of and this is very likely to harm it).

If they don't care about what we think of their behaviour, believe me, they should. Throwing insults and rotten tomatoes at people's heads is NOT is proper way to engage dialogue no matter how eager people are to "be heard". That's probably what you'll tell your children when you have some or what you've told them if you have some. I don't see how it should be different just because "we're on the internet". Rich Lambert saying "well, that's the internet" is the proper way to handle it in order not to feel personally fragilized but it is in no way an excuse for such behaviour.

Personally it makes me feel less and less enclined to accept or support anything or any kind of compromise towards the entire PvP crowd. And yes I know these kids are not representative of the entire PvP crowd but that's how it feels and that's the consequence of their behaviour.

Tandor · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why should they tolerate abuse in their job that no player would be willing to tolerate in his?

I take it you haven't worked very long.....

Just over 42 years actually, until I retired at the end of last year. You?

Touché. Only half that but the point remains.

No, the point does not remain. An abusive customer is never right. There's simply no reason for bad behaviour to others who are simply doing their job, and hiding behind the anonymity of the internet is no excuse whatsoever. If people had to post with their real identities they would think at least twice before making the sort of comments they make currently. Perhaps then those they are dealing with who are already posting with their real identities, including ZOS, would be more prepared to be open with them.

During my career in a service profession I more than once declined to act for an abusive client, and told such clients their approach was totally unacceptable. My business never suffered as a result, whereas my reputation would have suffered if I had yielded to their approach and considered them "always right", and my business with it.

Tholian1 · October 2015

Full screen mode. I never read the chat while watching. Well that is when I am lucky enough to even catch an episode.

Telel · October 2015

Honestly Telel greatly enjoys the segments where they cover the 'bones' of the game itself. The segment about the art direction, design, and implementatrion of just the one dungeon was immensely interesting to this khajiit's humble mind. They found the imperial city segment on the same subject to be one of their favorite bits out of all the ESO lives.

Perhaps it is because this one's simple brain is just not at the state where wanting to know things is considered a waste of time.

Truly they are envious of the one's whose fully developed minds have already reached their limits of understanding and do not need anything else to fill themselves up with.

It would definitely make fart jokes and chanting mantras so much more amusing.

Itoq · October 2015

Just as respect is earned and not given so often is disrespect earned.

Ezareth · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Throwing insults and rotten tomatoes at people's heads is NOT is proper way to engage dialogue no matter how eager people are to "be heard". That's probably what you'll tell your children when you have some or what you've told them if you have some. I don't see how it should be different just because "we're on the internet". Rich Lambert saying "well, that's the internet" is the proper way to handle it in order not to feel personally fragilized but it is in no way an excuse for such behaviour.

Personally it makes me feel less and less enclined to accept or support anything or any kind of compromise towards the entire PvP crowd. And yes I know these kids are not representative of the entire PvP crowd but that's how it feels and that's the consequence of their behaviour.

@FENGRUSH or no one else that we know or care about was throwing insults. The people who were personally insulting to members of ZoS are not sanctioned by *anyone* in the PVP crowd so just stop yourself right there when you try to lump them in with us. Otherwise I can easily spend an insignificant amount of time finding players in the "PvE crowd" hurling similar insults and lump you in with them as well if you'd like.

Tandor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Why should they tolerate abuse in their job that no player would be willing to tolerate in his?

I take it you haven't worked very long.....

Just over 42 years actually, until I retired at the end of last year. You?

Touché. Only half that but the point remains.

No, the point does not remain. An abusive customer is never right. There's simply no reason for bad behaviour to others who are simply doing their job, and hiding behind the anonymity of the internet is no excuse whatsoever. If people had to post with their real identities they would think at least twice before making the sort of comments they make currently. Perhaps then those they are dealing with who are already posting with their real identities, including ZOS, would be more prepared to be open with them.

During my career in a service profession I more than once declined to act for an abusive client, and told such clients their approach was totally unacceptable. My business never suffered as a result, whereas my reputation would have suffered if I had yielded to their approach and considered them "always right", and my business with it.

The point remains whether you choose to accept it or try to twist the point into some straw man point that was not made.

I'll reiterate since you seemed to miss it: "There is no excuse for degrading another human being.".

That said, the overwhelming majority of the responses in the live stream were not abusive but they did have demands that were continually ignored. I can communicate with any of the vendors that I use both professionally and personally for various services and make demands of them for my continued patronage. They might refuse me, they might try to placate me or even tell me they no longer wish to do business with me. Some of them would even accept my demands if they were reasonable yet I can tell you for a fact that none of those vendors would ever ignore my demands. What we saw in the twitch stream and what we continue to see in both the forums and the content released in this game is a ZoS team that continues to ignore it's PvP playerbase and that very fact is the #1 reason we see the playerbase has declined to a mere shadow of its former self.

For over a year we were promised..even teased with new PvP Content. It never came. The it turned into a DLC and we were told we would have to buy it instead. Some of us were angry but many of us were understanding and patient. It was going to be the solution to so many of the problems that plagued us. We were accommodating to the plight of ZoS and the overall health of the game. We watched the PvP community in constant decline due to unchecked exploits, lag, and balance changes that have decimated our guilds and friends lists alike. Yet when that content came what was delivered was the largest PvE patch since Craglorn....with PvP thrown in as an afterthought. No new ranking system. No competitive ladders. No new Ranks or anything to excite the players who have been logging into Cyrodiil every day since beta...just a PvE grind that made all the other grinds before it pale in comparison.

So yes many of us are angry and we have good reason to be. Instead of communication we are ignored. The ZoS posts in the PvP forums could be a study in broken promises and half truths. You could cut the tension in there with a knife most days and much of the toxicity is aimed at ZoS. But we're still here....and many of us are still supporting the game because we believe in the potential it holds and we've invested too much of our lives into it at this point to be complacent. The players who are left are the most dedicated, the most patient, and have more hope for the future of this game than any of the players who have come before us....we wouldn't be here and still complaining otherwise.

Our yoke is easy and our burden is light...yet our voice is often the loudest. So cut us a little slack for demanding a response from the people who make their living off of our continued patronage.