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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
CP Alternative Route: 1200 CP Hard Cap Idea.
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DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
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The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?Edited by DisgracefulMind on October 13, 2015 4:24AMUnfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
Gilliamtherogue wrote: »ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »The CP cap at 501 is already incredibly high. Unless they lower the power of the champion system by 10 fold (turning 25% dmg increases into 2.5% dmg increases) the cap needs to be at 501 or even lower.
He's suggesting an overall HARDCAP. As in, there will never be earning more CP over 1200, ever.
the hard cap, with no modifications to the system is going to lead to the same as any level cap- people give up trying. these systems are not systems designed for completion, as they are designed to be a "carrot on a stick". it would completely defeat the purpose to have it with a hard cap.
fine tuning the system, is not out of the realm of possible. i think they just don't want to work on/with the system, so the got an equation that will bunch us up as equals and slow us down to prevent completion, so they don't have to enhance the system over time (which also would be a bad idea).
not sure if they will leave the link in, but here is another model of alternate advancement:
http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Planar_Attunement_(Rift)
Except the carrot on a stick would still exist, since they could hybridize this suggestion. The main idea of implementing a hard cap under the 3600 mark is to prevent the need of an almost endless grind (easily over 1000 hours of play time), as well as having a system that works based on choice rather than free hand outs. Right now CP's end goal is nothing but a free stat boost, where everyone will reach the SAME exact point and have the same bonuses. What is the point of a system like that if everyone is going to be on the same mark? By implementing something under 3600 you make players pick and choose what they want so different builds have something to focus on and people can share that. Each build would want different stats based on what they want to improve on instead of just being like "Eh I want big damage now, but eventually I can go get that quality of life node over there".
this is a weak argument, in that if they limit the number too much people will end up being forced to niche spec. it always happens with class specific expenditures which is limited. the system currently negates that in that since oyu have 3600 point cap currently, it lets you spec for the moment.
right now i am PVPing so i am putting points for PVP, when i get my equilibrium ill go back to specing for PVE tanking. they are two different beasts entirely. PVE does not translate to PVP, and vice versa. if i am limited too much ill need to to (re)spec for the moment. skill points are a *** to keep track of.... the champion system even at 1200 would be hell.
this is also why these systems EXPAND and GROW not shrink. it keeps the population working diverse in their expenditures, but with freedom to decide what to spend.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 4:25AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
Nifty2g✭✭✭✭✭
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Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.DisgracefulMind wrote: »
The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way#MOREORBS0 -
StevK44_ESO✭✭Can we please put the thread back on track with it's original idea of changing the champion point system? There are going to be a lot of different models put forward, none of them are going to satisfy EVERYONE. I think Suru's idea has the best consideration for the lifespan of the game.
Around 1200 CP noticable differences in your PvE and PvP skills the CP granted before will diminish greatly. That's why the cap is proposed at 1200. You can still earn more and get titles for every 100 cp maybe. But once you have 1200 invested, all of the top tier skills are at 100 or thereabouts. Might as well release the entire cap at once but change it to 1200. This rewards those who have put in the time to earn CP but also inhibits their ability to become to out of hand.
If a season system is imposed, the game will be giving itself a death sentence. With changing the system nearly 100% to this Hard Cap of 1200. It allows ZOS to change and possibly remove VR levels. There are noticeable differences in your combat abilities around 70, 120, 350, 600, 900, and 1200 CP.
Even the Developers referred to CP gain in units of time when they first brought up the idea. Those who have more CP have invested more of their time into the game. Thus they should be rewarded in order to promote forward growth. But once the player reaches a certain amount of time invested they are presented with a skill barrier. They are nearly as powerful as possible compared to other. Yet on the off chance they come across another player with a similar amount of CP. It is going to be a matter of skill and playstyle.Edited by StevK44_ESO on October 13, 2015 4:30AM2 -
SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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Show me where i said anything about "accusing OP of not wanting to have to spend time on grinding".Gilliamtherogue wrote: »No I'm just more informed than you are because you are accusing OP of not wanting to have to spend time on grinding, while he is already WELL above the CP cap incoming. I'd wager he has put more time into this game than you have. Forgive me for assuming that you don't deserve the same privileges since you had already assumed in his case.
What is that? You can't? Because i never said that?
"More informed" Now that is funny ...
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Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.DisgracefulMind wrote: »
The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way
there is NO true catching up in these systems.... the game must provide the environment to close the gap (see my post on page one for a recommendation). the cap+ new equation won't do what can't be done, and if you got to the PTS forums, you will see the CP grind is now going to be a gear grind...
1200 is far more preferred than 3600 (originally it was 7200 lol), and they could even condense the system down... but there will still be a gap.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 4:34AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
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Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.DisgracefulMind wrote: »
The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way
I just can't agree with you here. In two years, say, a new player comes in and let's say the CP cap is 2k. Many players who have stayed in game for this proposed 2 years will be at AT LEAST half of that cap, if not more.
You'd have a situation worse than this one we're in now with the CP system. At least a hardcap gives a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel for ALL incoming new players and allows a reasonable number for players to work towards. Stick on a first 400-450 CP catchup too, by all means, but 3600 CPs with a softcap seasonal system is putting a death sentence on ESO. Discussing the longterm effects of seasonal caps and an absurd number of CP you can get here.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
DisgracefulMind wrote: »
Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.DisgracefulMind wrote: »
The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way
I just can't agree with you here. In two years, say, a new player comes in and let's say the CP cap is 2k. Many players who have stayed in game for this proposed 2 years will be at AT LEAST half of that cap, if not more.
You'd have a situation worse than this one we're in now with the CP system. At least a hardcap gives a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel for ALL incoming new players and allows a reasonable number for players to work towards. Stick on a first 400-450 CP catchup too, by all means, but 3600 CPs with a softcap seasonal system is putting a death sentence on ESO. Discussing the longterm effects of seasonal caps and an absurd number of CP you can get here.
This exactly!!!
the proposal i submitted keeps players at a "minimum expected gain" through quests. doing this will allow players to quest for an expected minimum, should they play though the content using the current system. the content when played, provides the catch up. helps kill the VR grind as well.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 4:43AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »
Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.DisgracefulMind wrote: »
The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way
I just can't agree with you here. In two years, say, a new player comes in and let's say the CP cap is 2k. Many players who have stayed in game for this proposed 2 years will be at AT LEAST half of that cap, if not more.
You'd have a situation worse than this one we're in now with the CP system. At least a hardcap gives a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel for ALL incoming new players and allows a reasonable number for players to work towards. Stick on a first 400-450 CP catchup too, by all means, but 3600 CPs with a softcap seasonal system is putting a death sentence on ESO. Discussing the longterm effects of seasonal caps and an absurd number of CP you can get here.
exactly!!! =D
the proposal i submitted keeps players at a "minimum expected gain" through quests. doing this will allow players to quest for an expected minimum, should they play though the content.
I agree that the incentive for ALL activities should be increased. Granting a bonus CP for achievements such as completing Cadwell's silver, gold, new alliance ranks, etc. would be a wonderful way to get players doing all activities, and implementing new and creative ways for all types of players, new and old, to gain CP.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I read the OP in more depth and I don't really see any more justification for a 1200 CP cap than has been given before. I have a concept that would essentially cap CP at 900 "Active" CPs at a time and active CPs would burn away and be consumed making the CP progression system more of an active-buff system that is perpetual.(http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1)
I also like the idea of using CPs to obtain things in game. I have been working on a concept that would do this but it wouldn't yield items or consumables like has been suggested here.
All in all, I don't think a cap solves the issue. I think finding a way to make CPs perpetual is the key here.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Suru✭✭✭✭
The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?DisgracefulMind wrote: »Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.
So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.
It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?
What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.
Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.
You do not comprehend at all how I'm proposing an idea to save the game hopefully and just provide feedback. Its early on. The CP level I'm at is yes way over the cap, but sitll lengths away from this cap. The real crazy grinders have over 1k, 1.5k,2k CP. Those grinders will be punished. For people like me it helps because I chose to get ahead and wanted to be competitive but hey I chose to grind early on but still do content. Its no different than take out of school courses to graduate high school early. Friends have been sent dirty ill comments about being called grinders at 500~ CP right now.
You have yet to see what this post is really for and base it on me and otherswho are more than halfway there. People will reach a certain strenth level at 1200 and never be stronger. So people don't have to complain what CP someone is at and that they are getting stronger and stronger at an inhumane pace. People are getting capped (some getting capped early) this way while giving people leeway to do with their points poits. WHILE at the same times save the new playerbase giving them a reason to play. What new player will want to come in when the cap is 2k? None. They will have the first 400 CP almost free with a catch up mechanic. Would you rather be 1/3 the cap when you came in or 1/9 when the cap is 3600? Be realistic.
The average with orsinium will shoot up already till the first 338 CP? so people are WELL on their way to the said proposed Idea. Saying that in a year the average will only be 200~300 Is mathmatically impossible. Within one month players can get to that and have 11 more months to shoot from 200~300.
Suru1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I read the OP in more depth and I don't really see any more justification for a 1200 CP cap than has been given before. I have a concept that would essentially cap CP at 900 "Active" CPs at a time and active CPs would burn away and be consumed making the CP progression system more of an active-buff system that is perpetual.(http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219662/cp-active-passive-bar-cp-burn-concept/p1)
I also like the idea of using CPs to obtain things in game. I have been working on a concept that would do this but it wouldn't yield items or consumables like has been suggested here.
All in all, I don't think a cap solves the issue. I think finding a way to make CPs perpetual is the key here.
I read through your CP burn concept a few times before, and I really enjoy the idea. There needs to be something else than setting a death sentence and a timeframe on how long this game will live. After the final season, I don't see it being alive any longer, and ESO has the potential to be a very long-lived MMO.
Would be interested to hear more about your concept on the CPs to gain things ingame. Personally, I'd like to see more interesting perks given to players through it like the node farming one. Things like this I think would please a lot of players, and would allow ZoS to organically reconstruct the sole purpose of CPs.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
PC/NA Server
Fairweather Friends
Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.2 -
Helba✭✭thunderwell wrote: »Let's convert cp into a currency instead.
Interesting ideal, would be nice it CP was some kind of token sytem that you could spend on cosmetic things like housing or consumables like you mentioned instead of the sheer amount of power you get from grinding it out day in day out. Just an ideal of course but I have some of my own.
But first, I honestly don't think ZOS ever intend on players ever finishing the CP grind. Just look at the new xp system in place with orsinium. It's actually meant to slow down player progression overall, even if we were to reach 3600 they would probably increase it to 10,800 and update the constellation tree passives. Let's just get this out of the way first.
I get it ZOS, you want players to keep playing the game, ok. The real root of what I feel is the problem is how we earn CP and the content that's the most rewarding for it. I agree that CP caps are needed in some way, shape or form to keep leaderboards and pvp actually competitive.
There should be a CP capped mode for Trials, VDSA and a Cyrodiil campaign (with less or no rewards or ap gain) instead of capping everything all together, make it 501 or w/e. Something low enough to even out the playing field at least a little bit instead of taking away the CP some players have spent months worth of time grinding out.
The catch up mechanic should be in the form of shifting where the most XP is gained and tuning it to content that (I presume) the majority of V1+ players enjoy. We should get much more XP from doing the daily pledge, Trials, the new solo arena (the most) and especially PVP. The challenging, engaging, fun content should give us the best experience, adjust the XP to what part of the game you want players to enjoy and what really shines in ESO.
I don't want to tell my friends that grinding in circles in IC or leveling new characters from scratch to redo the same hundred quests I've done done X number of times before is how ZOS wants us to play the game, that endgame doesn't compare to what other games have to offer.
Now for the catchup mechanic. For PVP if I defeat a player with far more CP than me I should get an XP BONUS from killing that player and get much much more XP, kind of like the way AP gain works with alliance rank differences. For PVE something should be done with the leaderboards such as an XP BONUS from player(s) with a lower average CP that complete a trial/arena with a comparable or better score in the non-CP cap mode. A system like this rewards the new players who out perform those with substantial stat advantage (resources, damage, mitigation) you name it and gives players that actually put in real hard work to defeat players with an advantage a way to catch up and in the CP cap mode a way to play at an even-playing field.
I and many others wouldn't have a problem with CP if it was gained at a faster rate doing enjoyable, challenging, dynamic, and engaging, endgame content and events compared to mind-numbing grinding. These of course are just some of my thoughts on how to fix CP, there's a lot that I would like to see with the direction of content design as well but that's a thread for another time. I have 385 CP with the majority of it from PVP. I have the time to CP grind but I refuse to.Sonya ~ Mistral ~ LennethI am one of those who wants to live forever.
From my point of view, Nirn came into being once I became conscious...
and it will fade into nothing once I die.1 -
DisgracefulMind✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭thunderwell wrote: »Let's convert cp into a currency instead.
Interesting ideal, would be nice it CP was some kind of token sytem that you could spend on cosmetic things like housing or consumables like you mentioned instead of the sheer amount of power you get from grinding it out day in day out. Just an ideal of course but I have some of my own.
But first, I honestly don't think ZOS ever intend on players ever finishing the CP grind. Just look at the new xp system in place with orsinium. It's actually meant to slow down player progression overall, even if we were to reach 3600 they would probably increase it to 10,800 and update the constellation tree passives. Let's just get this out of the way first.
I get it ZOS, you want players to keep playing the game, ok. The real root of what I feel is the problem is how we earn CP and the content that's the most rewarding for it. I agree that CP caps are needed in some way, shape or form to keep leaderboards and pvp actually competitive.
]There should be a CP capped mode for Trials, VDSA and a Cyrodiil campaign (with less or no rewards or ap gain) instead of capping everything all together, make it 501 or w/e. Something low enough to even out the playing field at least a little bit instead of taking away the CP some players have spent months worth of time grinding out.
The catch up mechanic should be in the form of shifting where the most XP is gained and tuning it to content that (I presume) the majority of V1+ players enjoy. We should get much more XP from doing the daily pledge, Trials, the new solo arena (the most) and especially PVP. The challenging, engaging, fun content should give us the best experience, adjust the XP to what part of the game you want players to enjoy and what really shines in ESO.
I don't want to tell my friends that grinding in circles in IC or leveling new characters from scratch to redo the same hundred quests I've done done X number of times before is how ZOS wants us to play the game, that endgame doesn't compare to what other games have to offer.
Now for the catchup mechanic. For PVP if I defeat a player with far more CP than me I should get an XP BONUS from killing that player and get much much more XP, kind of like the way AP gain works with alliance rank differences. For PVE something should be done with the leaderboards such as an XP BONUS from player(s) with a lower average CP that complete a trial/arena with a comparable or better score in the non-CP cap mode. A system like this rewards the new players who out perform those with substantial stat advantage (resources, damage, mitigation) you name it and gives players that actually put in real hard work to defeat players with an advantage a way to catch up and in the CP cap mode a way to play at an even-playing field.
I and many others wouldn't have a problem with CP if it was gained at a faster rate doing enjoyable, challenging, dynamic, and engaging, endgame content and events compared to mind-numbing grinding. These of course are just some of my thoughts on how to fix CP, there's a lot that I would like to see with the direction of content design as well but that's a thread for another time. I have 385 CP with the majority of it from PVP. I have the time to CP grind but I refuse to.
Well said.Unfortunate magicka warden main.
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Retired to baby bgs forever. Leave me alone.0 -
while looking at rifts model i see what they are possiblly trying to do is mimic it for their own system. thing to note, there is no soft cap. (see link). unfortunately its built more in line with EQ's AA.
the crux of the problem isn't necessarily the "cap" needed as much as the rewards rendered. enhancements to content are the best bet for new/slower progressors. that is the biggest difference between rift and ESO, as im sure they will "battle-level" most if not all content in some fashion. the attempt will be to mimic Rift's mentor system..... boy that is going to be interesting....
http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Planar_AttunementEdited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 5:12AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
TX12001rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭1200 cap with the catch up system would be good so for every CP u get it takes longer to get the next one and there should be a limit to how many u can get per day.1 -
Zavus✭✭✭✭Solution : Hard cap at 1200 with a seasonal cap and catchup mechanic if it makes people happy.
1200 hardcap would create build diversity: Lots of passives, limited points, and thousands of possible ways you can allocate your points within all the trees available. Whereas 3600 means, everyone has every single passive maxed out and well that's just.. boring.Zavus - Worst NB NA / First NB RANK 50"Most carried General NA" - Cent Satori
Haxus2 -
Solution : Hard cap at 1200 with a seasonal cap and catchup mechanic if it makes people happy.
1200 hardcap would create build diversity: Lots of passives, limited points, and thousands of possible ways you can allocate your points within all the trees available. Whereas 3600 means, everyone has every single passive maxed out and well that's just.. boring.
while i agree, STOP TALKING ABOUT MAX SPENT!!!! if they don't build and grow the system no ones gonna give a crap about 3600 or 1200 or 501. the system will get stale and unappealing because people have used it for the max possible life. that would be stupid.... period. no system like this STAYS like this. for the very reason you stated "every single passive maxed out and well thats just.... boring"
sorry but that comment is really getting on my nerves, along with those *** that comment about "no-lifers"Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 7:04AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19181 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd like to see a hard cap of 720 (240 CPs each for the Mage, Warrior, and Thief trees)
That way you could only unlock 6 out of the 9 possible passives at the end of each tree.
Make players choose a "champion build"just like they do with gear sets and ability bars.Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.0 -
Belidos✭✭✭✭✭But the complaints are that "people are over 1000 cp now, they're OP and we suck", how would capping it at 1200 solve this? Hint: it won't.1
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Suru✭✭✭✭ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Solution : Hard cap at 1200 with a seasonal cap and catchup mechanic if it makes people happy.
1200 hardcap would create build diversity: Lots of passives, limited points, and thousands of possible ways you can allocate your points within all the trees available. Whereas 3600 means, everyone has every single passive maxed out and well that's just.. boring.
while i agree, STOP TALKING ABOUT MAX SPENT!!!! if they don't build and grow the system no ones gonna give a crap about 3600 or 1200 or 501. the system will get stale and unappealing because people have used it for the max possible life. that would be stupid.... period. no system like this STAYS like this. for the very reason you stated "every single passive maxed out and well thats just.... boring"
sorry but that comment is really getting on my nerves, along with those *** that comment about "no-lifers"
1200 lets you do almost anything evenly and as a hardcap new players will be able to reach this at a reasonable pace. Say first 400 CP or so. It gives every single player now the time to get to that cap at a reasonable pace. What the fix Im stating as others have said, keep earning for achievement points at 2400, and 3600 CP total or after 1200 to use that CP as a form of currency and to build it up to buy consumables, gear or unique item sets. No new player wants to walk in and see that the cap it at 1600 one month and come back later to maybe try again and see the cap is at 2200 CP. The max spent is an important point regardless. What happens after is a point being made aswell.Edited by Suru on October 13, 2015 7:58AM
Suru1 -
ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »Solution : Hard cap at 1200 with a seasonal cap and catchup mechanic if it makes people happy.
1200 hardcap would create build diversity: Lots of passives, limited points, and thousands of possible ways you can allocate your points within all the trees available. Whereas 3600 means, everyone has every single passive maxed out and well that's just.. boring.
while i agree, STOP TALKING ABOUT MAX SPENT!!!! if they don't build and grow the system no ones gonna give a crap about 3600 or 1200 or 501. the system will get stale and unappealing because people have used it for the max possible life. that would be stupid.... period. no system like this STAYS like this. for the very reason you stated "every single passive maxed out and well thats just.... boring"
sorry but that comment is really getting on my nerves, along with those *** that comment about "no-lifers"
1200 lets you do almost anything evenly and as a hardcap new players will be able to reach this at a reasonable pace. Say first 400 CP or so. It gives every single player now the time to get to that cap at a reasonable pace. What the fix Im stating as others have said, keep earning for achievement points at 2400, and 3600 CP total or after 1200 to use that CP as a form of currency and to build it up to buy consumables, gear or unique item sets. No new player wants to walk in and see that the cap it at 1600 one month and come back later to maybe try again and see the cap is at 2200 CP. The max spent is an important point regardless and the value of the number and what you can do with that amount of CP and what happens after the hard cap.
..... i forgot the new players argument..... no..... not that one too....
relying on new players is not what their main focus should be on. the mass of players they are going to attract, they already did. as time goes on there will be fewer and fewer new players. there are roughly 320 million people in the United States, not all of them are gamers. eventually the well will go dry. what they need to do is focus on a quality product, to ensure return customers if possible and maintain current populations. to rely on "new customers" at this point for added revenue is just bad business. this christmas they won't sell another 2 million copies, they have hit their peak in the "demand" and they failed in the "supply".
the recommendation i have wasn't grabbed out of my ass and it wasn't completely conjured up in my head. its based and composed on past experiences with these systems. how zos *** it up is just proof of their ultimate incompetence... the information is already out there, these systems have already been tested, and launched, and what they gave us was about the most half assed system they could. 1200, 3600, its all just perception....
new customers have MORE content for the EVOLVING champion system than old ones. i already did silver, if they raised the one-time quest experience to total 60CPs im out that. but a new player gains 60CPs. as level caps rise, the more experience needed the less work the next generation has which complements the 60CPs and aids in filling in between. thats how the system balances itself. the experience requirement now, with an increase in mob experience ensures that the more champion points you have, the faster you acquire them. the new system does exactly the opposite, with the intent to fight an up hill battle with no win. not to mention, this isn't a solo game- veteran players will be around to help em.
this is not a "fair and equal system", by design. its about work/time=production. players need to be able to work with the time they have, to make a character. the game doesn't provide for that without content and experience gains based on the player succeeding.
im tired so im just gonna leave it at that...Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on October 13, 2015 8:20AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19180 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Unfortunately "I am above the CP cap. I do not have more than 1k. So put in a hard cap at 1200"
Sounds very much like "501 will affect me, 1200 won't, so raise the bar to something that still gives ME progression without affecting my current total"
Any cap (hard, soft or seasonal) will affect different players in different ways. I'm sure some of the vehemence of the comments in this thread is from people who will be affected by the 501 limit and are clearly upset by this. Maybe we should all declare our points total when we make a comment...
The way I see it, ESO are putting in the seasonal cap for two reasons:
- To stop people with 1K CP saying "Oh but this is too easy", while people with none say "This it too hard".
- To put the brakes on progression in an attempt to bring the players closer together (something they have said they wanted to do, and indeed hoped that CP would do).
While at the same time offering some form of "progression" because people like it
In order to provide progression it looks like the current CP system will need to be expanded or replaced - people are already a third of the way to completing it after seven months, and I'm sure this was not expected. They also said that CP would provide "horizontal" progression instead of "vertical" - and clearly it doesn't. I'm not sure that it even encourages too much difference in builds, some aspects such as regen are just too valuable to ignore.
I imagine they wanted people to play the game and get an occasional "Oooo, I just got a CP!" moment. Instead they got CP grinders. It is too easy to have it all.
Maybe spell crafting will bring in some future form of progression and diversity, but I wouldn't bet on it.1 -
G0ku✭✭✭✭Since when is the concept of "doing more, getting more" no more accepted, I don´t get it.
Just deactivate CP gains in pvp and leaderboard stuff and see what happens. Don´t expect to much from it - most players still won´t get on the top rankings and leaderboards and most people crying about pvp-imbalance will still get their a$$ handed by the very same players like before. The number of players who are losing out because of the number of champion points they´ve accumulated is even lower than the number of people with high CP.- First AD EU Group to finish DSA VET -
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Cadelay✭✭✭I think caps, conceptually is a bad thing. What do players do once they reach the cap? What's their incentive to play?
I keep seeing this sentiment, and I don't understand it. Most games have a level cap, and only a level cap. When you hit the level cap in a game, it's called end-game. At that point, there is no more progress to make level-wise on your character.
What do players do when they hit this cap? End-game stuff such as getting better gear, doing dungeons/raids, pvp, achievements, leveling an alt etc. Some of the most popular games have a level cap and are intensely successful.2 -
Cadelay✭✭✭With the current CP system cap system, it halts character progression for many serious veteran players who have kept playing and working hard. On the other hand, there are even more serious players who maybe are 50-100 cp away from the cap who will halt soon due an exponentially growing wall of xp per cp after cap.
This is exactly what ZOS is trying to do. I think the problem that you are having is understanding that you are supposed to be limited by this. There would be no point to what ZOS is doing with the cap if they weren't pushing people who had a lot of Champion Points back, because they are trying to even the playing field.
You are trying to raise the cap to an arbitrary number so that you are not limited. Well, that's just too bad because there would be no point to this decision if they did that. Think a little bit about why ZOS is doing this:
A ZOS employee recently posted that the average amount of Champion Points for an active PC player (online within the month, at least 1 vet character) is only 93 points. Not thousands like you. The average is less than 100. The cap will never affect the average or below the average, or anyone near the average.
I started two months ago, from level 1, and now have 90 champion points. I probably have more points than I should for such a short amount of time playing, and being outclassed by people who have been playing for longer than me feels terrible. I am excited for Orsinium as it will stifle my need to desperately grind to get to the level of other players, and allow me to enjoy other aspects of the game more. I personally am all for the cap and the catch-up mechanism, and exponential experience requirements as you get more points.1 -
Trashkan✭✭✭I agree completely I have 300 cps and I feel that those who have more deserve more it's as simple as this this guy spent his time to make cps give it to him. If you run into anyone with 1000 cps you will get crushed right well if you run into an emp isn't it the same thing someone grinded to become o.p and thats all there is to it anyone with that kind of xp would probably cut you into ribbons with 500 cps. So get more people to help take him down or find a buddy with cp. On top of all that these people that are above cap are probably eso plus members that have paid good money for that xp so it's like giving someone something and taking it away and by the way that something was PAID FOR!!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$2
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Tavore1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Capping anywhere over 1080 allows all passives to be opened but also means power cannot be maxed out but for me I don't really care.
Either you are playing this as a game like the majority in which case you probably will gain a decent but not crazy rate of cp and will learn to live with not being number one in trials and sometimes getting wrecked in PvP.
Or you are super MMO max min people who compete for every percentage point and will inevitably be grinding the cp you need to be competitive at the top.
The only people I see grumbling are those who play like group one but want the results of group two... You can't cater to people who want it all for minimal effort, life can't function that way, nor can games.GM - Malazan
Raid Leader - Hungry Wolves
Legio Mortuum1 -
Suru✭✭✭✭I_killed_Vivec wrote: »Unfortunately "I am above the CP cap. I do not have more than 1k. So put in a hard cap at 1200"
Sounds very much like "501 will affect me, 1200 won't, so raise the bar to something that still gives ME progression without affecting my current total"
Any cap (hard, soft or seasonal) will affect different players in different ways. I'm sure some of the vehemence of the comments in this thread is from people who will be affected by the 501 limit and are clearly upset by this. Maybe we should all declare our points total when we make a comment...
The way I see it, ESO are putting in the seasonal cap for two reasons:
- To stop people with 1K CP saying "Oh but this is too easy", while people with none say "This it too hard".
- To put the brakes on progression in an attempt to bring the players closer together (something they have said they wanted to do, and indeed hoped that CP would do).
While at the same time offering some form of "progression" because people like it
In order to provide progression it looks like the current CP system will need to be expanded or replaced - people are already a third of the way to completing it after seven months, and I'm sure this was not expected. They also said that CP would provide "horizontal" progression instead of "vertical" - and clearly it doesn't. I'm not sure that it even encourages too much difference in builds, some aspects such as regen are just too valuable to ignore.
I imagine they wanted people to play the game and get an occasional "Oooo, I just got a CP!" moment. Instead they got CP grinders. It is too easy to have it all.
Maybe spell crafting will bring in some future form of progression and diversity, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Sure having over 501 CP will affect everyone over 501 CP, but thats not the point I am trying to make. There is a bigger picture Involved.I think caps, conceptually is a bad thing. What do players do once they reach the cap? What's their incentive to play?
I keep seeing this sentiment, and I don't understand it. Most games have a level cap, and only a level cap. When you hit the level cap in a game, it's called end-game. At that point, there is no more progress to make level-wise on your character.
What do players do when they hit this cap? End-game stuff such as getting better gear, doing dungeons/raids, pvp, achievements, leveling an alt etc. Some of the most popular games have a level cap and are intensely successful.
As other creative people in this thread have stated using CP as currency. After the cap or until the cap they double as points and currency. Much respect for you as a relatively new player btw.SuraklinPrime wrote: »Capping anywhere over 1080 allows all passives to be opened but also means power cannot be maxed out but for me I don't really care.
Either you are playing this as a game like the majority in which case you probably will gain a decent but not crazy rate of cp and will learn to live with not being number one in trials and sometimes getting wrecked in PvP.
Or you are super MMO max min people who compete for every percentage point and will inevitably be grinding the cp you need to be competitive at the top.
The only people I see grumbling are those who play like group one but want the results of group two... You can't cater to people who want it all for minimal effort, life can't function that way, nor can games.
Most people won't want to get all the passive. Alot of people are rerolling magika and many of the passives are stamina focused and such. This cap system prevents someone from having every single passive imaginable but to let new players come into this game no worries because of a catch up system.
Suru1