Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.

So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.

It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?

What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.

The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?

Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.

Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.

So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.

It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?

What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.

The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?

Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.

Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?

Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way

Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.

So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.

It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?

What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.

The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?

Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.

Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?

Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way

I just can't agree with you here. In two years, say, a new player comes in and let's say the CP cap is 2k. Many players who have stayed in game for this proposed 2 years will be at AT LEAST half of that cap, if not more.

You'd have a situation worse than this one we're in now with the CP system. At least a hardcap gives a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel for ALL incoming new players and allows a reasonable number for players to work towards. Stick on a first 400-450 CP catchup too, by all means, but 3600 CPs with a softcap seasonal system is putting a death sentence on ESO. Discussing the longterm effects of seasonal caps and an absurd number of CP you can get here.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.

So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.

It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?

What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.

The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?

Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.

Of course there needs to be a cap to get people playing on equal grounds, I agree completely. Personally, my concern comes from what happens in the FUTURE of the game, when a new player decides to come in, and ends up in the situation new players are in now. How are they supposed to see the end to the huge number of CPs? What happens after all the seasons are done? Where does the future of ESO stand at that point?

Judging from the xp needed to get at the cap now, I assume the CP needed to get to the next rank will get lower and lower per seasonal cap, right? They're not going to have a hard time catching up to the Champion System hardcap stat gain, the difference between 300 - 500 is minimal as they've gotten everything they need pretty much. By the time a new player at vr1 levels to vr16 by questing and all that stuff and lets the CP cap is at 800 by that point, they will probably end up with 300-400 CP by the end of it.
I don't see an issue, just a lot of people looking at it the wrong way

I just can't agree with you here. In two years, say, a new player comes in and let's say the CP cap is 2k. Many players who have stayed in game for this proposed 2 years will be at AT LEAST half of that cap, if not more.

You'd have a situation worse than this one we're in now with the CP system. At least a hardcap gives a reasonable light at the end of the tunnel for ALL incoming new players and allows a reasonable number for players to work towards. Stick on a first 400-450 CP catchup too, by all means, but 3600 CPs with a softcap seasonal system is putting a death sentence on ESO. Discussing the longterm effects of seasonal caps and an absurd number of CP you can get here.

exactly!!! =D

the proposal i submitted keeps players at a "minimum expected gain" through quests. doing this will allow players to quest for an expected minimum, should they play though the content.

I agree that the incentive for ALL activities should be increased. Granting a bonus CP for achievements such as completing Cadwell's silver, gold, new alliance ranks, etc. would be a wonderful way to get players doing all activities, and implementing new and creative ways for all types of players, new and old, to gain CP.

Nifty2g wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Here's the thing, there aren't many at all who have near your CP level Suru, most "hardcore" players are at 500 - 700 and those are in Mundus, some are still in the 400's we play every day, I'm at 691 to get that I grinded up 3 toons while this CP system was out and farmed VDSA daily for 3 months that is a hell of a lot of CP gaining, for people to have more than me, the amount of grinding they would have done is absurd to think about.

So why should we keep rewarding those who have grinded, what is the big deal about having a large number capped? We've known for awhile they are going to cap CP, it was inevitable it was going to happen. 501 isn't even a bad number, it's hardly wiping character progression, there is nothing about progression when you turn it into a farming game to be stronger than everyone else.

It's a shame, they should have kept this cap in the game from the start but they didn't, now players are capped which will bring an uproar but think about it, you're not losing much and we get a more balanced game in the end. So why be bitter about it? We all dislike the champion system how it currently is, why are we trying to keep it how it is?

What happens when all the seasons are completed, and a new player comes in the game? The same thing now. He's not suggesting a seasonal cap, he's suggesting an overall hardcap.

The average player would be around 200-300 CP. Having a hardcap at 1200 will put a disadvantage over those players (obviously) like I mentioned, the grinders are going to win if the hardcap is at 1200. Imo this post just seems like those who have high CP want to stay high CP and dominate those who don't. Where is the fairness in that?

Seasonal caps stop that from happening and *tries* to get people on equal playing parts.

You do not comprehend at all how I'm proposing an idea to save the game hopefully and just provide feedback. Its early on. The CP level I'm at is yes way over the cap, but sitll lengths away from this cap. The real crazy grinders have over 1k, 1.5k,2k CP. Those grinders will be punished. For people like me it helps because I chose to get ahead and wanted to be competitive but hey I chose to grind early on but still do content. Its no different than take out of school courses to graduate high school early. Friends have been sent dirty ill comments about being called grinders at 500~ CP right now.

You have yet to see what this post is really for and base it on me and otherswho are more than halfway there. People will reach a certain strenth level at 1200 and never be stronger. So people don't have to complain what CP someone is at and that they are getting stronger and stronger at an inhumane pace. People are getting capped (some getting capped early) this way while giving people leeway to do with their points poits. WHILE at the same times save the new playerbase giving them a reason to play. What new player will want to come in when the cap is 2k? None. They will have the first 400 CP almost free with a catch up mechanic. Would you rather be 1/3 the cap when you came in or 1/9 when the cap is 3600? Be realistic.

The average with orsinium will shoot up already till the first 338 CP? so people are WELL on their way to the said proposed Idea. Saying that in a year the average will only be 200~300 Is mathmatically impossible. Within one month players can get to that and have 11 more months to shoot from 200~300.

thunderwell wrote: »

Let's convert cp into a currency instead.

Interesting ideal, would be nice it CP was some kind of token sytem that you could spend on cosmetic things like housing or consumables like you mentioned instead of the sheer amount of power you get from grinding it out day in day out. Just an ideal of course but I have some of my own.

But first, I honestly don't think ZOS ever intend on players ever finishing the CP grind. Just look at the new xp system in place with orsinium. It's actually meant to slow down player progression overall, even if we were to reach 3600 they would probably increase it to 10,800 and update the constellation tree passives. Let's just get this out of the way first.

I get it ZOS, you want players to keep playing the game, ok. The real root of what I feel is the problem is how we earn CP and the content that's the most rewarding for it. I agree that CP caps are needed in some way, shape or form to keep leaderboards and pvp actually competitive.

There should be a CP capped mode for Trials, VDSA and a Cyrodiil campaign (with less or no rewards or ap gain) instead of capping everything all together, make it 501 or w/e. Something low enough to even out the playing field at least a little bit instead of taking away the CP some players have spent months worth of time grinding out.

The catch up mechanic should be in the form of shifting where the most XP is gained and tuning it to content that (I presume) the majority of V1+ players enjoy. We should get much more XP from doing the daily pledge, Trials, the new solo arena (the most) and especially PVP. The challenging, engaging, fun content should give us the best experience, adjust the XP to what part of the game you want players to enjoy and what really shines in ESO.

I don't want to tell my friends that grinding in circles in IC or leveling new characters from scratch to redo the same hundred quests I've done done X number of times before is how ZOS wants us to play the game, that endgame doesn't compare to what other games have to offer.

Now for the catchup mechanic. For PVP if I defeat a player with far more CP than me I should get an XP BONUS from killing that player and get much much more XP, kind of like the way AP gain works with alliance rank differences. For PVE something should be done with the leaderboards such as an XP BONUS from player(s) with a lower average CP that complete a trial/arena with a comparable or better score in the non-CP cap mode. A system like this rewards the new players who out perform those with substantial stat advantage (resources, damage, mitigation) you name it and gives players that actually put in real hard work to defeat players with an advantage a way to catch up and in the CP cap mode a way to play at an even-playing field.

I and many others wouldn't have a problem with CP if it was gained at a faster rate doing enjoyable, challenging, dynamic, and engaging, endgame content and events compared to mind-numbing grinding. These of course are just some of my thoughts on how to fix CP, there's a lot that I would like to see with the direction of content design as well but that's a thread for another time. I have 385 CP with the majority of it from PVP. I have the time to CP grind but I refuse to.

while looking at rifts model i see what they are possiblly trying to do is mimic it for their own system. thing to note, there is no soft cap. (see link). unfortunately its built more in line with EQ's AA.

the crux of the problem isn't necessarily the "cap" needed as much as the rewards rendered. enhancements to content are the best bet for new/slower progressors. that is the biggest difference between rift and ESO, as im sure they will "battle-level" most if not all content in some fashion. the attempt will be to mimic Rift's mentor system..... boy that is going to be interesting....

http://rift.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Planar_Attunement

Solution : Hard cap at 1200 with a seasonal cap and catchup mechanic if it makes people happy.

1200 hardcap would create build diversity: Lots of passives, limited points, and thousands of possible ways you can allocate your points within all the trees available. Whereas 3600 means, everyone has every single passive maxed out and well that's just.. boring.

I'd like to see a hard cap of 720 (240 CPs each for the Mage, Warrior, and Thief trees)
That way you could only unlock 6 out of the 9 possible passives at the end of each tree.
Make players choose a "champion build"just like they do with gear sets and ability bars.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

Solution : Hard cap at 1200 with a seasonal cap and catchup mechanic if it makes people happy.

1200 hardcap would create build diversity: Lots of passives, limited points, and thousands of possible ways you can allocate your points within all the trees available. Whereas 3600 means, everyone has every single passive maxed out and well that's just.. boring.

while i agree, STOP TALKING ABOUT MAX SPENT!!!! if they don't build and grow the system no ones gonna give a crap about 3600 or 1200 or 501. the system will get stale and unappealing because people have used it for the max possible life. that would be stupid.... period. no system like this STAYS like this. for the very reason you stated "every single passive maxed out and well thats just.... boring"

sorry but that comment is really getting on my nerves, along with those *** that comment about "no-lifers"

1200 lets you do almost anything evenly and as a hardcap new players will be able to reach this at a reasonable pace. Say first 400 CP or so. It gives every single player now the time to get to that cap at a reasonable pace. What the fix Im stating as others have said, keep earning for achievement points at 2400, and 3600 CP total or after 1200 to use that CP as a form of currency and to build it up to buy consumables, gear or unique item sets. No new player wants to walk in and see that the cap it at 1600 one month and come back later to maybe try again and see the cap is at 2200 CP. The max spent is an important point regardless. What happens after is a point being made aswell.

I agree completely I have 300 cps and I feel that those who have more deserve more it's as simple as this this guy spent his time to make cps give it to him. If you run into anyone with 1000 cps you will get crushed right well if you run into an emp isn't it the same thing someone grinded to become o.p and thats all there is to it anyone with that kind of xp would probably cut you into ribbons with 500 cps. So get more people to help take him down or find a buddy with cp. On top of all that these people that are above cap are probably eso plus members that have paid good money for that xp so it's like giving someone something and taking it away and by the way that something was PAID FOR!!!!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Unfortunately "I am above the CP cap. I do not have more than 1k. So put in a hard cap at 1200"

Sounds very much like "501 will affect me, 1200 won't, so raise the bar to something that still gives ME progression without affecting my current total"

Any cap (hard, soft or seasonal) will affect different players in different ways. I'm sure some of the vehemence of the comments in this thread is from people who will be affected by the 501 limit and are clearly upset by this. Maybe we should all declare our points total when we make a comment...

The way I see it, ESO are putting in the seasonal cap for two reasons:

- To stop people with 1K CP saying "Oh but this is too easy", while people with none say "This it too hard".

- To put the brakes on progression in an attempt to bring the players closer together (something they have said they wanted to do, and indeed hoped that CP would do).

While at the same time offering some form of "progression" because people like it

In order to provide progression it looks like the current CP system will need to be expanded or replaced - people are already a third of the way to completing it after seven months, and I'm sure this was not expected. They also said that CP would provide "horizontal" progression instead of "vertical" - and clearly it doesn't. I'm not sure that it even encourages too much difference in builds, some aspects such as regen are just too valuable to ignore.

I imagine they wanted people to play the game and get an occasional "Oooo, I just got a CP!" moment. Instead they got CP grinders. It is too easy to have it all.

Maybe spell crafting will bring in some future form of progression and diversity, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Sure having over 501 CP will affect everyone over 501 CP, but thats not the point I am trying to make. There is a bigger picture Involved.

Cadelay wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I think caps, conceptually is a bad thing. What do players do once they reach the cap? What's their incentive to play?

I keep seeing this sentiment, and I don't understand it. Most games have a level cap, and only a level cap. When you hit the level cap in a game, it's called end-game. At that point, there is no more progress to make level-wise on your character.

What do players do when they hit this cap? End-game stuff such as getting better gear, doing dungeons/raids, pvp, achievements, leveling an alt etc. Some of the most popular games have a level cap and are intensely successful.

As other creative people in this thread have stated using CP as currency. After the cap or until the cap they double as points and currency. Much respect for you as a relatively new player btw.

SuraklinPrime wrote: »

Capping anywhere over 1080 allows all passives to be opened but also means power cannot be maxed out but for me I don't really care.

Either you are playing this as a game like the majority in which case you probably will gain a decent but not crazy rate of cp and will learn to live with not being number one in trials and sometimes getting wrecked in PvP.

Or you are super MMO max min people who compete for every percentage point and will inevitably be grinding the cp you need to be competitive at the top.

The only people I see grumbling are those who play like group one but want the results of group two... You can't cater to people who want it all for minimal effort, life can't function that way, nor can games.

Most people won't want to get all the passive. Alot of people are rerolling magika and many of the passives are stamina focused and such. This cap system prevents someone from having every single passive imaginable but to let new players come into this game no worries because of a catch up system.