V16 mats still rare as rocking horse poop in Orsinium compared to V14 mats.

pelennor_fields · October 2015

Nebthet78 wrote: »

GTech_1 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

I have been with this game since early Beta and have put up with a lot of stuff and had to change the way I played several times because of changes they have made with updates.

Now that they are making gaining max level mats into a grindfest, I am finding I am being forced to do things I do not enjoy to just be able to upgrade my armor to be less squishy, to keep doing what I was before (especially seeing how they nerfed everything back with IC release so you had to regain where you were previously).

Running around a zone and harvesting nodes is one of the most enjoyable things I do when I just want something relaxing to do in the game. BUT..... it is only enjoyable if I don't have to do it 10 thousand times to get the mats to make one set of armor because the nodes are so rare and a buttload of mats are required to make it.

Once a game mechanic is changed where I am then pretty much forced to grind, grind, grind like that to keep my character progression up, it is time to leave, because that is not real advancement.

I did not buy ESO to end up playing a Korean Grind MMO.

That tells me that the company is looking to keep players occupied with something because they do not have the confidence in their own product to allow it to stand for its' self.

It tells me the company is looking for a way to milk their players out of as much money as they can before players realize something really wrong is happening in the background.

It also tells me the company is paying far, far too much attention to the 1% of hard core MMO player/Guilds like Deltia's who rush through and grind 24/7 any new content that is released to get up to top gear before any one else and then sit back and whine and complain that they are bored and there is nothing to do and then come to the forums to *itch about it, when in reality it is their own fault, not ZOS'.

The result is, ZOS releasing grind mechanics like this, that will unsuccessfully try to slow these type of players down, while creating a much, much larger gap for the Casual Player, which inevitably causes those players to leave because they will not put up with this type of poorly thought out mechanic to upgrade their gear progression for very long. They will just leave.

The hope of many players, not just Casual, for Orsinium when it was released, was for it to be like any other normal zone where all nodes were scaled to V15/16, where players could farm for their mats in a reasonable way without having to deal with the PvP nonsense of IC.
It's fine if ZOS wants to implement a mechanic that requires your skill for crafting to be 10/10 to get the node so crafting means something. BUT, ALL nodes MUST still be V15/16 for those players.

ZOS needs to stop punishing Casual Players for what the minority of Hard Core players choose to do. If you as a player get bored because you decided to rush through the content, then that is your fault and not any one else's and other players should not have to be punished because of that. Unfortunately, though I think this is partially what is happening here. ZOS is trying to implement a way to keep hard core players for getting the mats to upgrade in the first week of release and it is failing hard, because those players still get it within that time frame while more and more Casual Players fall behind.

It's like the CP system argument but for Crafting Nodes, with the exception that being able to craft highest level armor actually makes a HUGE difference to your character's progression.

Like many other players, I do not mind that there is a Crown Store. I do not mind that there are pets and costumes in it. I don't mind if there are XP scrolls and potions. I don't even mind if there are motifs in it. But if selling those items, in addition to players paying for a subscription, and others paying for Crowns or even both is not raking in enough money for you, then maybe you need to look at the price of some of the things you are selling. Motifs should be much cheaper than they are. 5000 Crowns is outrageous. Though some players will pay it, not nearly as many that otherwise would if it was a more reasonable 3000 Crowns for a single motif or 5000 Crowns for both motifs from a particular DLC release.

I already made a post to ZOS about it what the need to change in regards to Node Levels on the PTS forums. @angelyn I see referred to it here so I don't want to repeat much of anything here about it.. don't need to.

I will say however, that if the reason for the super grind for mats is indeed to make it such a pain in the arse to get them so these mats can then be sold in the Crown Store for a convenience, then I will be leaving this game. It will be uninstalled at that point.. (and no you cannot have my stuffs), as it will no longer be the fun game it was PRIOR to the release of Imperial City.

I consider myself a Casual Player, though I do play almost every day for min 6hrs a day (I don't sleep well at night). My signature has my character list on it. I like trying out different characters, BUT I don't like rushing through content. I prefer to take my sweet ole' time and enjoy it. Once I have finished content for one character, I like to go and do it with another, or for a short amount of time go and level up an ALT for a short time and then go back and do it so it is fresh again.

With the mechanics for gaining mats like have been released in IC and right now with Orsinium, it means I have no choice but to spend most of my time, grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding to get the mats I need for not only that 1 character, but to eventually save up for ALL my characters when they reach max level so that they can do things properly when they reach that content, so they are not gimped. I have 8 characters... 1 at max, the 2nd near. 2 more in vet levels now... That is far too much future grinding for max level mats.. and unless ZOS changes the number that are required to make the armor... it is only going to get worse with each DLC.

That is not the ESO I paid for to play.... But it is the ESO this game is becoming, and it is the ESO I am going to forced to leave as that ESO is not fun.

Nebthet78 wrote: »

GTech_1 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The whole set up of the VR15-VR16 grind for mats makes me worry about what it is they want to do to 'alleviate' our grind issues.

F2P games typically do this so that they can introduce specific items to their Microtransaction Store that will drive up sales. Star Trek Onlines Crafting System with their R&D Boxes in the C-Store for example. There is a lot of things that make their Crafting System different ESOs. But the demand for mats is so high in that game that people turn to their C-Store for the boxes to alleviate the need for their RNG style Crafting System. Its quite possible that ZOS wants to make these mats hard to obtain so that when they think we are as frustrated as they want us. They can introduce their own Crafting Mats to the Store. Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats.

I hope Im wrong. But from what it sounds like theyre going in that direction. With the excuse that 'its for convenience'.

Here are a couple of things I'd like to point out:
It's not F2P, it's B2P. They need to stop using my sub dollars to create new ways to further gouge us.

And you say "Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats."

I would simply respond by saying: Folks also won't see all of the current players, and subscribers, simply disappear from the game, due to the forced frustration mechanics either.

I came here from many years playing other games with this forced grind nonsense.
I came here, and stayed here (since early release), because the grind, and treadmill gameplay, were *not* here.
If they are, indeed, trying to get us "as frustrated as they want us", then I, and my guild, will be long gone.

We just want to have fun while playing, and we want to have ample time to play with our friends.
That's not too much to, literally, demand from a game.

Sincerely,
~GTech_1

I agree with you GTech.

I have been with this game since early Beta and have put up with a lot of stuff and had to change the way I played several times because of changes they have made with updates.

Now that they are making gaining max level mats into a grindfest, I am finding I am being forced to do things I do not enjoy to just be able to upgrade my armor to be less squishy, to keep doing what I was before (especially seeing how they nerfed everything back with IC release so you had to regain where you were previously).

Running around a zone and harvesting nodes is one of the most enjoyable things I do when I just want something relaxing to do in the game. BUT..... it is only enjoyable if I don't have to do it 10 thousand times to get the mats to make one set of armor because the nodes are so rare and a buttload of mats are required to make it.

Once a game mechanic is changed where I am then pretty much forced to grind, grind, grind like that to keep my character progression up, it is time to leave, because that is not real advancement.

I did not buy ESO to end up playing a Korean Grind MMO.

That tells me that the company is looking to keep players occupied with something because they do not have the confidence in their own product to allow it to stand for its' self.

It tells me the company is looking for a way to milk their players out of as much money as they can before players realize something really wrong is happening in the background.

It also tells me the company is paying far, far too much attention to the 1% of hard core MMO player/Guilds like Deltia's who rush through and grind 24/7 any new content that is released to get up to top gear before any one else and then sit back and whine and complain that they are bored and there is nothing to do and then come to the forums to *itch about it, when in reality it is their own fault, not ZOS'.

The result is, ZOS releasing grind mechanics like this, that will unsuccessfully try to slow these type of players down, while creating a much, much larger gap for the Casual Player, which inevitably causes those players to leave because they will not put up with this type of poorly thought out mechanic to upgrade their gear progression for very long. They will just leave.

The hope of many players, not just Casual, for Orsinium when it was released, was for it to be like any other normal zone where all nodes were scaled to V15/16, where players could farm for their mats in a reasonable way without having to deal with the PvP nonsense of IC.
It's fine if ZOS wants to implement a mechanic that requires your skill for crafting to be 10/10 to get the node so crafting means something. BUT, ALL nodes MUST still be V15/16 for those players.

ZOS needs to stop punishing Casual Players for what the minority of Hard Core players choose to do. If you as a player get bored because you decided to rush through the content, then that is your fault and not any one else's and other players should not have to be punished because of that. Unfortunately, though I think this is partially what is happening here. ZOS is trying to implement a way to keep hard core players for getting the mats to upgrade in the first week of release and it is failing hard, because those players still get it within that time frame while more and more Casual Players fall behind.

It's like the CP system argument but for Crafting Nodes, with the exception that being able to craft highest level armor actually makes a HUGE difference to your character's progression.

Like many other players, I do not mind that there is a Crown Store. I do not mind that there are pets and costumes in it. I don't mind if there are XP scrolls and potions. I don't even mind if there are motifs in it. But if selling those items, in addition to players paying for a subscription, and others paying for Crowns or even both is not raking in enough money for you, then maybe you need to look at the price of some of the things you are selling. Motifs should be much cheaper than they are. 5000 Crowns is outrageous. Though some players will pay it, not nearly as many that otherwise would if it was a more reasonable 3000 Crowns for a single motif or 5000 Crowns for both motifs from a particular DLC release.

I already made a post to ZOS about it what the need to change in regards to Node Levels on the PTS forums. @angelyn I see referred to it here so I don't want to repeat much of anything here about it.. don't need to.

I will say however, that if the reason for the super grind for mats is indeed to make it such a pain in the arse to get them so these mats can then be sold in the Crown Store for a convenience, then I will be leaving this game. It will be uninstalled at that point.. (and no you cannot have my stuffs), as it will no longer be the fun game it was PRIOR to the release of Imperial City.

I consider myself a Casual Player, though I do play almost every day for min 6hrs a day (I don't sleep well at night). My signature has my character list on it. I like trying out different characters, BUT I don't like rushing through content. I prefer to take my sweet ole' time and enjoy it. Once I have finished content for one character, I like to go and do it with another, or for a short amount of time go and level up an ALT for a short time and then go back and do it so it is fresh again.

With the mechanics for gaining mats like have been released in IC and right now with Orsinium, it means I have no choice but to spend most of my time, grinding and grinding and grinding and grinding to get the mats I need for not only that 1 character, but to eventually save up for ALL my characters when they reach max level so that they can do things properly when they reach that content, so they are not gimped. I have 8 characters... 1 at max, the 2nd near. 2 more in vet levels now... That is far too much future grinding for max level mats.. and unless ZOS changes the number that are required to make the armor... it is only going to get worse with each DLC.

That is not the ESO I paid for to play.... But it is the ESO this game is becoming, and it is the ESO I am going to forced to leave as that ESO is not fun.

Agreed 100%... I am putting in an average of 4 or 5 hours a day on this game right now and it is my only game. However, moving more and more into a grind is not what I'm looking for in my entertainment. Up to this point it had been one of my greatest gaming experiences thus far (and at 35yrs.. I've had a lot.) ZOS needs to sit up and take notice of what is being said by players who are serious but cant engage at the level of players like you mention in your post (half of whom are getting paid to play the game, or should be.)

The game shines (in spite of the bugs) in the rich environments and storylines... Combat and play are exciting and fun... Crafting is (was?) rewarding... We dont constantly need new levels and new mats. I am excited for Orsinium, but i was also shocked how close it comes on the heels of the IC update. While I am looking forward to the new content, you should realize that we don't need constant heaps and heaps of new content to keep playing the game. And we absolutely do not need repetitive, time consuming grinds that go on for 40 hours... I'm averaging about 5 items of each type an hour in the IC... And at that rate... I don't even want to think about it.

Please don't make the game a job for people who aren't treating it like a job... And please don't use the crown store as a release valve for the grind. Normalize the crafting nodes on V16 mats or make them stealable on level... And please let writs remain feasible for those of us taking the time to do them!

Korah_Eaglecry · October 2015

GTech_1 wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

The whole set up of the VR15-VR16 grind for mats makes me worry about what it is they want to do to 'alleviate' our grind issues.

F2P games typically do this so that they can introduce specific items to their Microtransaction Store that will drive up sales. Star Trek Onlines Crafting System with their R&D Boxes in the C-Store for example. There is a lot of things that make their Crafting System different ESOs. But the demand for mats is so high in that game that people turn to their C-Store for the boxes to alleviate the need for their RNG style Crafting System. Its quite possible that ZOS wants to make these mats hard to obtain so that when they think we are as frustrated as they want us. They can introduce their own Crafting Mats to the Store. Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats.

I hope Im wrong. But from what it sounds like theyre going in that direction. With the excuse that 'its for convenience'.

Here are a couple of things I'd like to point out:
It's not F2P, it's B2P. They need to stop using my sub dollars to create new ways to further gouge us.

And you say "Of course there will be a Firestorm on the Forums. But what everyone wont see is the hordes of players spending their Crowns on these Mats."

I would simply respond by saying: Folks also won't see all of the current players, and subscribers, simply disappear from the game, due to the forced frustration mechanics either.

I came here from many years playing other games with this forced grind nonsense.
I came here, and stayed here (since early release), because the grind, and treadmill gameplay, were *not* here.
If they are, indeed, trying to get us "as frustrated as they want us", then I, and my guild, will be long gone.

We just want to have fun while playing, and we want to have ample time to play with our friends.
That's not too much to, literally, demand from a game.

Sincerely,
~GTech_1

1st off. Im more than aware of it not being a F2P game. Im simply pointing out a tactic that both B2P and F2P games apply to driving up Microtransaction stores sales. A tactic pioneered by F2P games and adapted for B2P. Pointing out that its not a F2P game does not change this sales tactic. So youre just being obnoxious for the sake of being obnoxious with this Captian Obvious moment.

Second off, People have been saying this and that will chase these players and those players off for the life of this game. And every other MMO I've been apart of. WoW, SWTOR, STO and now ESO...Can you take a wild guess how many of those have tanked due to the companies responsible for them doing something that the forumites didnt like? The number of players quitting over this will likely be insignificant with most posting here about how they are quitting while not actually quitting. The only game that came close to being shut down was STO and it had more to do with Cryptics Parent Company Atari not managing its money properly. Going F2P has actually made STO very popular. And while Cryptic continues to pull the rug out from players feet. The players continue to buy Keys for the Lockboxes and R&D Boxes for the chances of getting some super rare OP Ship. By making it hard to get these mats and the motiffs to make specific armor types. Theyre driving up the demand for them. And when they think we're good and ready to have our wallets harvested. Theyll introduce Mats to the Store just like they introduced the Armors to the store. For convienence of course. Some will complain, even less will actually quit over it. Most will shrug it off because the mats are for levels that they havent reached yet. And others will gladly pay to have it and be done with the struggle of grinding for it.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

angelyn · October 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

BlackEar wrote: »

I love that the mats are hard to get and you need a lot.
It gives me a sense of worthwhile progression instead of just being able to craft the best gear so easily.

I always found it annoying that you can craft some of the best gear. At least now need to actually work for it. Kudos to the change!

Agreed. Itemization in IC is the best thing that ever happened to ESO. There's finally actually a point to doing things, and even white grade trash loot is worthwhile. Previously, you could make endgame gear starting at level ~40 for little to no money, which made anything but grinding exp for vet ranks and cp pointless. Now with something to work for, there are much more viable activities, not the least because gold is more useful to buy the new materials. You can just play the game how you want - PvP, solo PvE, group PvE, questing, gathering, crafting, stealing, etc - and use the gold you make to gear up. If you feel "forced to grind", you just have yourself to blame for making the game miserable for you.

I've been playing in IC sewers and some group dungeons for about 4 weeks after release for no more than 3 hours per day, and if I traded all my materials in for 1 type I could easily make a full V16 set for one character. That is not too rare, it really isn't. Especially Rubedite Ingots are very abundant. And with the lowered cost for materials from Tel Var vendors coming with Orsinium, I could make another full set using my stocked up TV stones. Not to mention that you will get VR15/16 gear in Orsinium to deconstruct without the fear of getting ganked like in IC. The new crafting nodes are just the icing on the cake.
And if that's still too much for you, stick with VR15 gear. That's what it's for.

I understand what you are saying

And everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. For me, a casual player, crafting used to be fun. I don't enjoy the grind and RNG that is replacing the old system , especially if the only reason for the implementation of said new system is to drive players to the crown store.

While you may have found it lucrative to farm in IC, others have not been as lucky. Not to mention those that abstained from buying the pvp dlc. (ZOS'S words, not mine).

For your average PVE casual, we used to be able to grab nodes while questing and be able to craft ourselves some gear. Whether or not this is correct im not debating. This is the crafting system that has been there since the beginning of the game. Ive been enjoying that system since beta. Paying my sub for the game that i enjoy playing since beta.On PTS, it has taken some people 4 hours to find 3 nodes. Or if they have found nodes, 90% of them were not V16, despite having maxed out the crafting passive. Using this mat/node per hour rate:

Say we need 150 nodes per V16 piece ( to equate to 150 mats per piece) . That equates to 200 hours of farming with that sole purpose, for one piece. Or 1800 hours to farm an entire set. At 2 hours playtime it would take 900 days before grinding enough for a set.

Say we need 100 nodes per V16 piece. This equates to 133 hours per piece, or 1200 hours per set. If I play 2 hours a day, that's 598 days of doing nothing else in game but grinding mats.

What about 50 nodes per V16 piece? This equates to 66 hours per piece, or 600 hours per set. At 2 hours play per day, that's 300 days.

This is why people are shouting up. The nodes in Orsinium are rare. Even if you have the required passives most of the nodes still give Voidstone etc..I didn't buy this game to have to spend 300 days doing nothing else in game except grind mats, just so that I can craft a set of armour.

Crafting mats are already in cash shop. They appeared there when items that didn't have a grind in game (motifs , style materials), coincidentally had a new grind introduced.. what crafting mats are next?

If the game had advertised that they would either have/introduce a korean style grind for crafting, I never would have bought it. It was sold to me as something different, and I dont like the direction it's heading. Hence why I'm providing this feedback. If they continue with this, players like me will uninstall. Some players may like the korean grind style , but I doubt many who purchased ESO would have, if it was made clear that this is the direction the game would take.

Van_0S · October 2015

Should I buy the dlc to get the akaviri set ?

Rust_in_Peace · October 2015

I've pretty much stopped playing the game because of how rare crafting materials are. I don't have the time or inclination to grind 5 - 10 hrs a day just to make a single piece of gear.

xaraan · October 2015

Feels like the end game for ESO is giving you reasons to quit playing.

DaveMoeDee · October 2015

I already get that from hirelings

AngryNord wrote: »

Have you fully upgraded your crafting AND your hirelings? I notice on PTS that the characters get rubedite ore from hirelings now.

Hirelings already do that on the released version. Otherwise, I would have zero v15 mats because I don't have IC.

PlagueMonk · October 2015

I don't know if this has been mentioned but WHY on earth do all the V16 mobs that can be skinned only drop VOID leather scraps? Would really be nice if those mobs left rubedo scraps behind.

angelyn · October 2015

xaraan wrote: »

Feels like the end game for ESO is giving you reasons to quit playing.

As much as you may or may not agree with replacing the old crafting system with something new (that is filled with both grind and rng

)- it is not what what was advertised for people considering purchase of the game. Many people included crafting not being a korean grind into their reasoning for buying ESO.It's like buying a jar of peanut butter only to open it and find gravy granules.

Based on current drop rates on PTS , if I play 2 hours a day and do nothing but harvest nodes it could take me a year to craft a V16 set.

I dont mind working towards something..but to me that just isn't fun spending my gaming time doing nothing but farming mats.

If I had known korean grind was in the plan, I never would have bought the game, since it is not a playstyle I enjoy. I don't mind if other people like that style of play, of course.

, I just actively avoid that style of play , and this influences how I spend my money when it comes to gaming.

angelyn · October 2015

PlagueMonk wrote: »

I don't know if this has been mentioned but WHY on earth do all the V16 mobs that can be skinned only drop VOID leather scraps? Would really be nice if those mobs left rubedo scraps behind.

It's because in ZOS'S wisdom, even if you have all the necessary skill points invested , you only get a "chance" to obtain the V16 mat or encounter a V16 node.

Pangnirtung · October 2015

The new mantra of this game seems to be "buy or grind".

Sucks that someone who thought this up thinks that rare mats like this make the game more enjoyable.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · October 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

Then do that. Nobody is forcing you to do anything else, everything you listed can be gotten with gold which you can acquire almost anywhere. Especially in the beginning, questing is a major source for gold. And if you like exploring, you should have no problem collecting mats along the way.

Not in the quantity I would need, and mat sales have slowed down (A LOT) since the Glass Motif hit the Crown Store. The MM price for Xivkyn Bows alone is currently above 42,000. That's not an amount I can make with quests. The sources of gold that reach those amounts, aside from the Motif pieces which I need for me, are generally dropped set pieces which, surprise! I then need to grind for! And even when Nightwood etc. was selling at its peak, it was ONLY the top tier Writ mats, which are only found in the later Gold Zones, whose quests are mostly done. So I'm still stuck grinding.

k2blader · October 2015

To the few people saying, "Only after a couple weeks of X hours of play I had enough mats to craft a full VR16 set":

If you're claiming "it was only 2-3 hours a day" I don't believe you. If you're saying you grinded 8+ hours a day for mats, then I might believe you. And even then you're probably leaving out details like all the effort made to find folks to trade with, sell to, or buy from-- and likely the fact that you had a nice chunk of gold saved up to use also.

Point is: not everyone has that kind of time and/or investment in the game to have done what you have as if it's a walk in the park. And speaking as someone who did join the IC grind for much of September it most certainly isn't a walk in the park no matter how much you act otherwise. Because grinding IC is a mind-numbing exercise on how to do the most life-suckingly boring thing over and over and over. It's like finding pennies in random parking lots with the goal of eventually collecting $1,000.

So I basically agree with the vast majority of people on the thread and playing the game that the VR16 mat grind is nonsensical and needs to be adjusted. Folks should be able to craft endgame level gear in a reasonable amount of time so they can then enjoy endgame as opposed to logging on to endlessly run a hamster wheel, feeling as if they can never catch up.

Solution:
Up the supply of mats (e.g. more mats from decon, more mats from hirelings, add mats to node drops),
and/or
Decrease the number of mats required to craft items.

Caligamy_ESO · October 2015

Dalsinthus wrote: »

The change to writs is particularly terrible. They're an unpleasant chore on Live now;

I would hit agree a million times on this if I could. It would undoubtedly be more entertaining than spending an hour a day gathering to do 3 writs that often give garbage rewards.

4 1/2 glass pages in and I want to throw myself into the abyss in Coldharbour

Grandsupercoder · October 2015

As a dedicated crafter since console launch, I will not be surprise if the reason these mats are made rare is so that they could perhaps make it a crown store option ( like glass and malachite ) one day. I could be wrong but Imagine that?

Nénlindë · October 2015

Grandsupercoder wrote: »

As a dedicated crafter since console launch, I will not be surprise if the reason these mats are made rare is so that they could perhaps make it a crown store option ( like glass and malachite ) one day. I could be wrong but Imagine that?

No... No.... Don't give them ideas now...

radiostar · October 2015

Agree. We can't craft jewels yet anyway, so why the artificial grind? Kinda sucks.

pelennor_fields · October 2015

That's already going on. You can spend hours and hours to do 6 or more writs a day to get an average 1/10 page scrap drop for the glass motif. Not counting that when you finally do have ten scraps you will need 10k gold to stick it together. While this is taxing the thought of writs becoming v16 mat dependent without a change to the availability takes the writ completion into nightmare territory. But look! Complete Glass motif for sale in the crown store; only 5k crowns!

Nénlindë · October 2015

@pelennor_fields subscribe to ESOsuper+, Only 49.99 a month (ontop of regular eso+), includes all the DLC content without having to do the tedious grinds we call content!

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · October 2015

Ya they really need to fix this. If it stays the same i know a lot of people who wont be buying it.

pelennor_fields · October 2015

@Nénlindë. If I join ESO plus plus will I still get to see my favorite part of the IC update?

"This may be an unusually long load time."

I mean, $30 motifs are awesome but i don't know if I could live without that on every load screen.

Nénlindë · October 2015

pelennor_fields wrote: »

@Nénlindë. If I join ESO plus plus will I still get to see my favorite part of the IC update?

"This may be an unusually long load time."

I mean, $30 motifs are awesome but i don't know if I could live without that on every load screen.

Gosh, so true. Every single load screen...

nimander99 · October 2015

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

I already get that from hirelings

AngryNord wrote: »

Have you fully upgraded your crafting AND your hirelings? I notice on PTS that the characters get rubedite ore from hirelings now.

Hirelings already do that on the released version. Otherwise, I would have zero v15 mats because I don't have IC.

A small correction here; Hirelings bring refined mats on live, not ore and wood etc.. when Orsinium goes live maxed Hirelings will have a chance to bring refine-able mats.

DaveMoeDee · October 2015

Isn't the solution to go to IC if you want to craft v16 gear? Why should Orsinium be an easy replacement for that? I don't have IC though I'll likely sub in December to play both. If I could just get all the mats in Orsinium, I probably wouldn't bother much with IC. But I'm okay with Orsinium not being much of a replacement for IC for mats.

Adding a v15 writ seems crazy though. If they are going to do that, they need to let people select what level writ they want to do instead of forcing their highest level. I want to continue to get v15 mats from my hirelings, but I'll keep my writs in Craglorn. What about the writs for consumables, like enchanting? Did they make the same change?

Ourorboros · October 2015

Grandsupercoder wrote: »

As a dedicated crafter since console launch, I will not be surprise if the reason these mats are made rare is so that they could perhaps make it a crown store option ( like glass and malachite ) one day. I could be wrong but Imagine that?

Nénlindë wrote: »

No... No.... Don't give them ideas now...

Don't give them ideas??!! Why do think the grinds have been implemented? Surely you are not buying the party line about making the game more challenging, so we'll feel 'rewarded' after spending thousands of hours grinding? The point to the new grind is to drive crown store sales, directly or indirectly. Maybe the mat rarity is a PTS bug, but if it is still the same low rate on 11/2, you have confirmation of the Crown Store Grind Theory.

PlagueMonk · October 2015

So I went through the effort of upgrading the PTS (along with having to update a few other things...what a pain!) just to see this for myself.

The result is, yeah complete crap. I tooled around the area on my bear mount (that was cool looking but a clunky ride) and my rate for finding ruby nodes was well under 10% (probably approaching 5%). If I'm a maxxed crafter and have spent my points to get that, I EXPECT that to be rewarded with nodes that ALL scale to my ability, not a random 5% of them (along with mobs that also randomly drop ruby leather as opposed to shadowhide? ><)

The thing that people thinking this is fine don't get is.......those nodes give you rough/scraps. You still have to refine those which greatly reduces your final product. I might as well just farm mobs in IC for item breakdowns because that gives me materials as a V16 I CAN USE. Sorry but void is pretty useless to me as a V16 so 90%+ of the drops/nodes are junk.

You wanna keep V16 gear at x10 mats? ok, but let ALL the nodes scale to my crafting ability.

Addendum....one possible solution would be........make all nodes scale to max crafting BUT make ruby refinement take 20-30 mats instead of 10.

pelennor_fields · October 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

Don't give them ideas??!! Why do think the grinds have been implemented? Surely you are not buying the party line about making the game more challenging, so we'll feel 'rewarded' after spending thousands of hours grinding? The point to the new grind is to drive crown store sales, directly or indirectly. Maybe the mat rarity is a PTS bug, but if it is still the same low rate on 11/2, you have confirmation of the Crown Store Grind Theory.

That was sarcasm. I think the huge majority on the thread - especially the crafters doing writs - see the whole thing as a pending confirmation of the Crown Store Grind theory... I will grind my mats for my V16 armor and force a smile.But those drops better be fixed or otherwise top tier crafting should be capped at V14 mats. I love my writs and the rewards for my time are currently balanced... Who would give 30+ hours of their time to fulfill a writ with a 1/10 drop rate on a 1/10 item completion?!?! Not me.

OtarTheMad · October 2015

They MUST lower the cost of making V16 stuff. If they don't people will just play something else. I don't have the time to be farming in IC sewers or running around Orsinium just for mats. Making them cost so much was one of the dumbest things I have experienced since beta.

Faulgor · October 2015

angelyn wrote: »

I understand what you are saying And everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. For me, a casual player, crafting used to be fun. I don't enjoy the grind and RNG that is replacing the old system , especially if the only reason for the implementation of said new system is to drive players to the crown store.

That's the point, I don't feel that it's a grind. It takes longer, yes, but it doesn't feel unreasonable to me, and I'm definitely not a hardcore grinder. Maybe I just want it less? I don't see the need to rush to VR16 gear when VR14 is still fine, especially for casual players. Despite all the mats I have, the only VR16 piece I have is a bow on my stam sorc.
Of course I'll be the first to call ZOS on their bullhonk should they add crafting mats to the Crown Store, but I don't see that happening.

angelyn wrote: »

For your average PVE casual, we used to be able to grab nodes while questing and be able to craft ourselves some gear. Whether or not this is correct im not debating. This is the crafting system that has been there since the beginning of the game. Ive been enjoying that system since beta. Paying my sub for the game that i enjoy playing since beta.

I don't really see what's stopping you to gather nodes while questing - but some people already call that grinding. It seems that anything someone likes doing is collecting, and anything they don't is called grinding. I find that hard to argue with. Nevertheless, you could trade the mats you collect for VR15/16 mats. I get the impression that people arguing against the rarity of these mats want to do absolutely everything themselves, but I actually like that this encourages to interact and trade with other players.

angelyn wrote: »

On PTS, it has taken some people 4 hours to find 3 nodes. Or if they have found nodes, 90% of them were not V16, despite having maxed out the crafting passive. Using this mat/node per hour rate:

I don't really see how one can be so unlucky, except heavy competition by other people gathering materials. I easily collect a dozen ores just riding around Wrothgar, admiring the landscape, and I don't stop at nodes all that often (Heavy Sacks drop them, too). Without Keen Eye even. So I can't really agree with your math there. Not to mention that you, again, can sell the other mats you gather, especially if you are a dedicated crafter with all professions maxed out, so you can trade your ruby ash for ancient silk or whatever you actually need.

The situation is only getting better for casual players. More sources for the new materials open not only up to you, but everyone, and prices will drop noticably.

angelyn wrote: »

If the game had advertised that they would either have/introduce a korean style grind for crafting, I never would have bought it. It was sold to me as something different, and I dont like the direction it's heading. Hence why I'm providing this feedback. If they continue with this, players like me will uninstall. Some players may like the korean grind style , but I doubt many who purchased ESO would have, if it was made clear that this is the direction the game would take.

And I'm sorry, but this is very, very far from Korean style "grinding". If they hadn't implemented something like this, players like me who appreciate having something to work for would and indeed did leave the game. For the longest, longest time, all I did was log in to feed my horse. Now I'm gathering materials, doing daily writs, deconstructing white trash items, buying motif pages from other players, actually crafting things. For everybody else who is intimidated by the material requirements, there is the quite easily attainable VR15 gear.
I don't see how they could have gone for a better compromise.

Elephant42 · October 2015

Faulgor wrote: »

-snip-I don't really see how one can be so unlucky, except heavy competition by other people gathering materials. I easily collect a dozen ores just riding around Wrothgar, admiring the landscape, and I don't stop at nodes all that often (Heavy Sacks drop them, too). Without Keen Eye even. So I can't really agree with your math there.-snip-

Perhaps it's you who have been excessively _lucky_ as this does not at all correspond to my experience, nor to that of most of the posters in this thread from the way I read it.

And you have also hit a nerve with your node competition comment - if the drop rate is this bad on the relatively lightly loaded PTS, imagine what it will be like once all and sundry rush in there when it goes live