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Nightblades... Ridiculous!
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butoijo✭Played from Sep 1 on Ps4
I have to change my weapon from 2H to DW to get that tornado for countering NB, 20% exp away from Assault lv6 to get caltrop.
The bad thing is my DW at the time still lv5 LOL.
The good thing is i learn a lot about my class, templar, what skill i use when alone or with group, or what i should do with my limited resource againts NB or other classes.0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Imo I can really think of anything that is op in the game right now. Ofcourse I may be drawing a blank on something.0 -
CtrlAltDlt✭✭✭I'm so fed up with the same nerf nb, nb OP ***. And complaining about cloack? Read the damn description of any rouge class, stealth is in their nature. l2counter
Fyi sorcs and stam templars can hit like a truck.PC NA - jeazzy
stamblade outnumbered pvp vol 1. youtu.be/h1ONYfpAJJ8
Stamblade outbumbered pvp vol 2. No cheese youtu.be/rN4_aRVMvWw0 -
TerraHawk✭✭90% of my gankers in IC are NBs.
The process is simple:
Get attacked and CCed. Usually dead before break free.
Unlike other players, I don't have automatic CC break software so I have to see it to react.
I cannot "learn to play" if I cannot move.
Doesn't matter if my DPS is bigger than theirs. Doesn't matter if I can heal myself.
If I use a pot to heal myself while CCed and survive, I cannot use a detection pot. Dead again.
Only if the NB makes a mistake do I actually get to fight. Sometime I see a NB ganking
another player and I have time to prepare. Then I can at least last a few seconds before
I die.
Ice comet is useless against NBs. So is radiant opression and soul strike.
Velocious curse and crystal shards are avoidable. What does that leave me?
Maybe I can light attack them to death.
So you want my Magica Sorc and Templar to waste a spot on steel tornado.
Very kind of you. What should I drop?
And lets get this straight. Your massive stealth advantage is negated for 12 seconds if
I drink a pot. Then you have a free 33 seconds to kill me. So sorry to inconvenience you.
0 -
revonine✭✭✭✭90% of my gankers in IC are NBs.
The process is simple:
Get attacked and CCed. Usually dead before break free.
Unlike other players, I don't have automatic CC break software so I have to see it to react.
I cannot "learn to play" if I cannot move.
Doesn't matter if my DPS is bigger than theirs. Doesn't matter if I can heal myself.
If I use a pot to heal myself while CCed and survive, I cannot use a detection pot. Dead again.
Only if the NB makes a mistake do I actually get to fight. Sometime I see a NB ganking
another player and I have time to prepare. Then I can at least last a few seconds before
I die.
Ice comet is useless against NBs. So is radiant opression and soul strike.
Velocious curse and crystal shards are avoidable. What does that leave me?
Maybe I can light attack them to death.
So you want my Magica Sorc and Templar to waste a spot on steel tornado.
Very kind of you. What should I drop?
And lets get this straight. Your massive stealth advantage is negated for 12 seconds if
I drink a pot. Then you have a free 33 seconds to kill me. So sorry to inconvenience you.
Every single issue your having can be countered by slotting radiant magelight. Damage from stealth CUT BY 56%. Stun from stealth negated. Reveals hidden and stealth enemies. One skill. One skill slotted to counter an entire classes playstyle. If your having that much of a problem with Nightblades it's well worth it.
And slot Total Dark on your magicka templar to counter magicka nightblades. even their melee attack Concealed Weapon is considered a single target spell.Edited by revonine on October 8, 2015 9:50PM3 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭90% of my gankers in IC are NBs.
The process is simple:
Get attacked and CCed. Usually dead before break free.
Unlike other players, I don't have automatic CC break software so I have to see it to react.
I cannot "learn to play" if I cannot move.
Doesn't matter if my DPS is bigger than theirs. Doesn't matter if I can heal myself.
If I use a pot to heal myself while CCed and survive, I cannot use a detection pot. Dead again.
Only if the NB makes a mistake do I actually get to fight. Sometime I see a NB ganking
another player and I have time to prepare. Then I can at least last a few seconds before
I die.
Ice comet is useless against NBs. So is radiant opression and soul strike.
Velocious curse and crystal shards are avoidable. What does that leave me?
Maybe I can light attack them to death.
So you want my Magica Sorc and Templar to waste a spot on steel tornado.
Very kind of you. What should I drop?
And lets get this straight. Your massive stealth advantage is negated for 12 seconds if
I drink a pot. Then you have a free 33 seconds to kill me. So sorry to inconvenience you.
Sorry but doesnt take more than a second to break free. In this meta there is no way to die in that amount of time. There are no more one shots from stealth. So, unless it takes you like 5 seconds to break free, then there is no way you are dieing before you break free. Also,........
[/quote]
Every single issue your having can be countered by slotting radiant magelight. Damage from stealth CUT BY 56%. Stun from stealth negated. Reveals hidden and stealth enemies. One skill. One skill slotted to counter an entire classes playstyle. If your having that much of a problem with Nightblades it's well worth it.
And slot Total Dark on your magicka templar to counter magicka nightblades. even their melee attack Concealed Weapon is considered a single target spell. [/quote]
This. Hell even when I play my magicka nb I run magelight because i get more benefit from it then I get from peircing mark. And as long as you remember to turn it back on when you switch back to your front bar, then you dont even need to waste two slots. There are plebty of other abilities that work extremely well. Your a sorc you can use encase, lightning form, streak. You can also use impulse from desto line. Not tomention you can do what every other sorc does properlly and keep your curse up when you pull them out of stealth.
ALso, ice comet is useless against anyone unless you set it up properly. People started using it so much that everyone has learned different ways to counter it. You cant just simply drop it on someone any more. Hell simply a block and dodgeroll is enough. CC the player at the right time to get meteor to drop.
You say crystal shards and curse are avoidable, but so isnt every other skill. Everything is avoidable. It is your skill as a player that sets up the combos properlly. People are not going to just sit there and let curse them and cast shards.
As for your templar, use jabs. That is my numberone hated skill as a nb. A spammable aoe that pulls you out of stealth and CC you. That crap sucks. In fact that attack and a sorcs curse are my most hated attacks when I play my NB.
As for the detect pot issue, do wat the cool kids do. You use the detect pot only to get an initial look at them so then you can gap close and use abilities to pull them out of stealth. Now if you refuse to use the tools at your disposal or fail to implement them properly then that is a L2P issue.
you do realize that people kill nb right? You think ppl just luck into killing nb? no they use the tools that they have at their disposal to kill them. They dotn yell nerf on the forums.1 -
OrphanHelgen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree they are too OP, and the gapcloser can reach players in more terrain then other gap closers.
They have the best mobility ingame.
They have access via class skills the best buffs and debuffs ingame (dodge, major sorc/brut, major defile, etc)
They have the best burst dmg ingame.
They are the only class with revieling stealth as a class skill.
They have movement speed as a class skill.
They have a "purge" as a class skill.
The cloak itself is ok, but everything around it.. It just make other classes too weak compared.PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact
Finally a reason not to play League of Legends0 -
TerraHawk✭✭"Sorry but doesnt take more than a second to break free. In this meta there is no way to die in that amount of time. There are no more one shots from stealth. So, unless it takes you like 5 seconds to break free, then there is no way you are dieing before you break free. Also,........"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
I have a single button break free. I push it when I drop face first to the ground after being hit by a NB.
I am almost always dead before I break free. This has happened at least a hundred times since IC started.
My combat logger agrees with me. Less than two seconds to death. 4-5 major attacks averaging 6k-9k damage each.
End of story.
My ping averages about 80 msec and my frame rate is a healthy 80 fps. I have a reasonably fast computer
so those are not the culprits.
I have only been killed by a non-NB once like that since IC started. I always have a chance against Templars, Sorcs and Dragon Knights. And yes, some NBs do not have the rotation (or macro) perfected yet. So if it is me, why does it ONLY happen against NBs?
I will try giving up 10% of my magica to have a chance. Part of me says I should not have to.
2 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭"Sorry but doesnt take more than a second to break free. In this meta there is no way to die in that amount of time. There are no more one shots from stealth. So, unless it takes you like 5 seconds to break free, then there is no way you are dieing before you break free. Also,........"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
I have a single button break free. I push it when I drop face first to the ground after being hit by a NB.
I am almost always dead before I break free. This has happened at least a hundred times since IC started.
My combat logger agrees with me. Less than two seconds to death. 4-5 major attacks averaging 6k-9k damage each.
End of story.
My ping averages about 80 msec and my frame rate is a healthy 80 fps. I have a reasonably fast computer
so those are not the culprits.
I have only been killed by a non-NB once like that since IC started. I always have a chance against Templars, Sorcs and Dragon Knights. And yes, some NBs do not have the rotation (or macro) perfected yet. So if it is me, why does it ONLY happen against NBs?
I will try giving up 10% of my magica to have a chance. Part of me says I should not have to.
Im sorry but outside of macros you are not getting hit with 4-5 major attacks in that time frame. Ok so if a mgicka nb then you can get hit with detonation, teleport strike, ability, ultimate. But any class can do this combo only substitute teleport strike with gap closer. The key to pulling this off is with detonation, so the only way a stam nb could pull it off in that timeframe is with evil hunter. That would require hunter to proc though. Again, this combo is available to all. Not to mention, usually these players cannot sustain in a fight and simply really on the opening shot. But again, maggelight solvesa ll problems and it only cost 5% magicka. This does not effect you power but merely your pull. So 5% of you max magika to counter the one build that your haveing trouble with? sounds like a good deal to me. And lets be real, if your a magicka build you likely have 32k or more magika pool. So 5% of your magika is not difficult at all to overcome.1 -
Zyle✭✭✭✭✭"Sorry but doesnt take more than a second to break free. In this meta there is no way to die in that amount of time. There are no more one shots from stealth. So, unless it takes you like 5 seconds to break free, then there is no way you are dieing before you break free. Also,........"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
I have a single button break free. I push it when I drop face first to the ground after being hit by a NB.
I am almost always dead before I break free. This has happened at least a hundred times since IC started.
My combat logger agrees with me. Less than two seconds to death. 4-5 major attacks averaging 6k-9k damage each.
End of story.
My ping averages about 80 msec and my frame rate is a healthy 80 fps. I have a reasonably fast computer
so those are not the culprits.
I have only been killed by a non-NB once like that since IC started. I always have a chance against Templars, Sorcs and Dragon Knights. And yes, some NBs do not have the rotation (or macro) perfected yet. So if it is me, why does it ONLY happen against NBs?
I will try giving up 10% of my magica to have a chance. Part of me says I should not have to.
What is your health/armor/spell resistance?
676 CP
Zyle - LVL50 Stamina Nightblade - Former Emp AS - VMA Clear (Flawless)
Joven - LVL50 Hybrid Templar
Adion - LVL50 Stamina DK
Radac - LVL50 Magicka Sorcerer
Vanikath - LVL50 Magicka DK0 -
revonine✭✭✭✭"Sorry but doesnt take more than a second to break free. In this meta there is no way to die in that amount of time. There are no more one shots from stealth. So, unless it takes you like 5 seconds to break free, then there is no way you are dieing before you break free. Also,........"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
I have a single button break free. I push it when I drop face first to the ground after being hit by a NB.
I am almost always dead before I break free. This has happened at least a hundred times since IC started.
My combat logger agrees with me. Less than two seconds to death. 4-5 major attacks averaging 6k-9k damage each.
End of story.
My ping averages about 80 msec and my frame rate is a healthy 80 fps. I have a reasonably fast computer
so those are not the culprits.
I have only been killed by a non-NB once like that since IC started. I always have a chance against Templars, Sorcs and Dragon Knights. And yes, some NBs do not have the rotation (or macro) perfected yet. So if it is me, why does it ONLY happen against NBs?
I will try giving up 10% of my magica to have a chance. Part of me says I should not have to.
Do you mind telling us what attacks are hitting you in that timeframe? As stated already every class has very powerful combos if used correctly. Off the top of my head:
For sorc - Inevitable Detonation, Curse, , Crystal frag proc, streak, Dawnbreaker of smiting.
Templar: Proxy det, focused charge, biting jabs.
DK's: Proxy det, Take flight.
Nightblade: Poison Injection, cloak, ambush, soul harvest, surprise attack as necesssary, killers blade/ executioner.
On the subject of attacks from stealth. Don't judge the power of a NB's attacks from stealth till you witness a stamina DK heavy bow attacking from stealth with molten weapons and rally xD
You absolutely do have to slot a counter. I HAVE to slot fear if I'm ever going to beat a blocking DK or a sorc with a high magicka pool. And I have to have an ability or enchant with defile so I can kill a templar. I shouldn't have too but I do if I want to beat another class that's playign to it's strengths.1 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭You do realize a detected nb is the worst class in the game right? There are so many counters to nb stealth
Git gud scrub2 -
Toast_STS✭✭✭✭I don's always t-bag players. But when I do it's a nightblade I killed trying to sneak away.VR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps1
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Swindy✭✭✭
Oh it's less than 90 seconds...personal experience, all dependent upon when my stamina runs out.a.skelton92 wrote: »You can tell 90% of the ESO community are fresh off the latest FPS and or Runescape. Has no one here EVER played any other MMO? There is always a rogue class and said class always has the ability to vanish when the going gets tough.. Its like when you get those people that say "mages are cowards" because they apparently "run away" in a fight (kiting).. Certain classes play this way or have certain spells because if they stood toe to toe with you; you would probably tear them a new ass.
Exactly. Try going toe to toe without cloak with a stamina DK, Magicka Sorc or even a well built stamina sorc and see how long a NB would last
Cloak is for sneaking around sewers & dungeons, if you're there to fight, then fight ya fairy.
This post brought to you by the squishiest DW/Bow stamblade Imperial in existence lol.Edited by Swindy on October 9, 2015 4:57AMII Swindy II
Australian on Xbox NA (ex EU)0 -
Gern_Verkheart✭✭✭✭90% of my gankers in IC are NBs.
The process is simple:
Get attacked and CCed. Usually dead before break free.
Unlike other players, I don't have automatic CC break software so I have to see it to react.
I cannot "learn to play" if I cannot move.
Doesn't matter if my DPS is bigger than theirs. Doesn't matter if I can heal myself.
If I use a pot to heal myself while CCed and survive, I cannot use a detection pot. Dead again.
Only if the NB makes a mistake do I actually get to fight. Sometime I see a NB ganking
another player and I have time to prepare. Then I can at least last a few seconds before
I die.
Ice comet is useless against NBs. So is radiant opression and soul strike.
Velocious curse and crystal shards are avoidable. What does that leave me?
Maybe I can light attack them to death.
So you want my Magica Sorc and Templar to waste a spot on steel tornado.
Very kind of you. What should I drop?
And lets get this straight. Your massive stealth advantage is negated for 12 seconds if
I drink a pot. Then you have a free 33 seconds to kill me. So sorry to inconvenience you.
Every single issue your having can be countered by slotting radiant magelight. Damage from stealth CUT BY 56%. Stun from stealth negated. Reveals hidden and stealth enemies. One skill. One skill slotted to counter an entire classes playstyle. If your having that much of a problem with Nightblades it's well worth it.
And slot Total Dark on your magicka templar to counter magicka nightblades. even their melee attack Concealed Weapon is considered a single target spell.
You also have the AOE attack from the destro staff line to counter those problems as well. Don't cry about nerfing another class until you have actually tried changing your playstile to counter them first.
The only way that is possible is if you aren't running any defense, and your health is just to low. Do you run with battle level on? Do you use any shields? You have to try different strategies. The reason you are only dieing to NB's is because you thought about how to fight other classes, but it seems you haven't put any thought into how to fight NB's."Sorry but doesnt take more than a second to break free. In this meta there is no way to die in that amount of time. There are no more one shots from stealth. So, unless it takes you like 5 seconds to break free, then there is no way you are dieing before you break free. Also,........"
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
I have a single button break free. I push it when I drop face first to the ground after being hit by a NB.
I am almost always dead before I break free. This has happened at least a hundred times since IC started.
My combat logger agrees with me. Less than two seconds to death. 4-5 major attacks averaging 6k-9k damage each.
End of story.
My ping averages about 80 msec and my frame rate is a healthy 80 fps. I have a reasonably fast computer
so those are not the culprits.
I have only been killed by a non-NB once like that since IC started. I always have a chance against Templars, Sorcs and Dragon Knights. And yes, some NBs do not have the rotation (or macro) perfected yet. So if it is me, why does it ONLY happen against NBs?
I will try giving up 10% of my magica to have a chance. Part of me says I should not have to.Edited by Gern_Verkheart on October 9, 2015 3:42PM0 -
Stigant✭✭✭✭Reading trought the whole thread took some time, but here is my take on the topic ...
I can see how OP can have trouble with cloaking NBs pretty easily because:
1. usually proposed counter, AoE's like caltrops or Steel Tornado are not the option in most scenarios inside IC because YOU DONT WANT TO PULL THE WHOLE ROOM OF NPCs or HALF OF THE DISTRICT INCLUDING THE BIG BOSS that will walk into your caltrops 20seconds after. If, of course, the said NB didn't do that already and then cloaked, timing his finishing move to secure the TVS gain whike yu are fighting the NPC yourself. Also cloak lets you "cloak-run-trought" a lot of hostile NPCs.
2. poping a potion makes your potions go on cooldown .. a lot of people hesitate to pop a detect pot, because NB's are like rats ... they go on rampage when they realize you can see them - "put them in the corner which they can't cloak way from"... they throw at you everything they have, to get rid of you .. so you will need that healing potion ready.
3. Radiant Magelight ... well .. thisone is pretty good actualy, even thought the area could be a little biger, BUT you need to have played NB to a certain extent to be able to predict their moves because the cloak WILL STILL PUT HIM OFF YOUR SCREEN for almost 1 second before the Radiant Magelight kicks in and "reveals" him again
4. NB Mark .. well yu have to be NB to have thisone ... so no point in talking about thisone at all actually
Above said and considering the way Cloak works in current state of the game, I would agree that it gives NB's a little too good Advantage .. especially in IC enviroment.
P.S.: When even @sabresandiego_ESO makes a thread about cloak needing adjusting ... it speaks of itself,
Edited by Stigant on October 9, 2015 4:57PM0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭Reading trought the whole thread took some time, but here is my take on the topic ...
I can see how OP can have trouble with cloaking NBs pretty easily because:
1. usually proposed counter, AoE's like caltrops or Steel Tornado are not the option in most scenarios inside IC because YOU DONT WANT TO PULL THE WHOLE ROOM OF NPCs or HALF OF THE DISTRICT INCLUDING THE BIG BOSS that will walk into your caltrops 20seconds after. If, of course, the said NB didn't do that already and then cloaked, timing his finishing move to secure the TVS gain whike yu are fighting the NPC yourself. Also cloak lets you "cloak-run-trought" a lot of hostile NPCs.
2. poping a potion makes your potions go on cooldown .. a lot of people hesitate to pop a detect pot, because NB's are like rats ... they go on rampage when they realize you can see them - "put them in the corner which they can't cloak way from"... they throw at you everything they have, to get rid of you .. so you will need that healing potion ready.
3. Radiant Magelight ... well .. thisone is pretty good actualy, even thought the area could be a little biger, BUT you need to have played NB to a certain extent to be able to predict their moves because the cloak WILL STILL PUT HIM OFF YOUR SCREEN for almost 1 second before the Radiant Magelight kicks in and "reveals" him again
4. NB Mark .. well yu have to be NB to have thisone ... so no point in talking about thisone at all actually
Above said and considering the way Cloak works in current state of the game, I would agree that it gives NB's a little too good Advantage .. especially in IC enviroment.
P.S.: When even @sabresandiego_ESO makes a thread about cloak needing adjusting ... it speaks of itself,
1. Yes you make a point here. However, now you are talking about refining your skills as a player. You should always be able to anticipate situations such as this. From the moment you enter an area you should be thinking about all the possible scenarios you can find yourself in and moving in the appropriate direction. You should be able to understand that you aoe will hit npc. You shoudl time them and place them accordingly. IC is about balancing pve with pvp. By positioning yourself in the right areas or stepping back to be able to use your aoe is all about understanding your surroundings. I know aoe work because not only do I use them but other players use them against me. Players who know what they are doing will be able to use successfully without pulling npc. However, accidents do happen. It is important to note that IC is also not the only pvp area. So, the issues associated with using these skills in IC do not apply to outside the city where there are no npc.
2. Again this point goes to skill of the player. you state "A LOT of people hesitate to use because...." If you understand that popping a detect potion will unleash a nb furry then you have already anticipated the other players next move. you plan out your counter before you use the detect pot. be prepared to root them, cc them, use your ult, pop a sheild, etc. If you can anticipate the players movement then you have already beat them. That said, many nb will equally try to get out of range of the detect pots. A glass canon will want to run while a sustain build is more apt to stay and fight.
3. the issue mentioned in this point can be overcome with a gap closer.
4. I agree can not use this argument cause it is a NB based skill.
Bottom line is cloak is what makes a nb a nb. The point of a nb is to move through the world undetected. being able to weave through enemy players, both real and npc, is simply the nature of a nb. Just as a temp has ridiculous heals, a dk can tank crazy damage, and a sorc has amazing sheilds. There are counters to all of the above. Just because one class is better at accomplishing something than another class does not mean change them. Results like that would just make every class the same and therefore creating very little differences between the classes. What is the point of that? It is also important to remember that you can not simply look at an issue so narrowly. You can not just put these skills into context of one DLC. You must look to normal pvp and to pve scenarios. Bottle necking an issue into one area is not a good means to judge an issue. It is not good for the game as a whole when you do that.1 -
gen_reynard2050✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Bottom line is cloak is what makes a nb a nb. The point of a nb is to move through the world undetected. being able to weave through enemy players, both real and npc, is simply the nature of a nb. Just as a temp has ridiculous heals, a dk can tank crazy damage, and a sorc has amazing sheilds. There are counters to all of the above. Just because one class is better at accomplishing something than another class does not mean change them.
they all hate NB can use cloak to invisible...and they too lazy to buy detection pot...then later, when NB use invi pots, again they will cry to nerf on invi pot... BECOZ they all too lazy to buy DETECTION POT! Edited by gen_reynard2050 on October 9, 2015 6:20PM"What the lion cannot manage to do, the fox can".0 -
twistedmonk✭✭✭I think they just think NBs are overpowered because there are so many of them.
Stamina builds > magic builds. NBs just happen to have the 2 best magic dumps for stamina builds = cloak/fear - which is why they make the best stamina class in general
what is really overpowered/unbalanced/unfair is 2-hander/dual wield vs destro staff - lolzEdited by twistedmonk on October 9, 2015 6:22PM0 -
Stigant✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »Reading trought the whole thread took some time, but here is my take on the topic ...
I can see how OP can have trouble with cloaking NBs pretty easily because:
1. usually proposed counter, AoE's like caltrops or Steel Tornado are not the option in most scenarios inside IC because YOU DONT WANT TO PULL THE WHOLE ROOM OF NPCs or HALF OF THE DISTRICT INCLUDING THE BIG BOSS that will walk into your caltrops 20seconds after. If, of course, the said NB didn't do that already and then cloaked, timing his finishing move to secure the TVS gain whike yu are fighting the NPC yourself. Also cloak lets you "cloak-run-trought" a lot of hostile NPCs.
2. poping a potion makes your potions go on cooldown .. a lot of people hesitate to pop a detect pot, because NB's are like rats ... they go on rampage when they realize you can see them - "put them in the corner which they can't cloak way from"... they throw at you everything they have, to get rid of you .. so you will need that healing potion ready.
3. Radiant Magelight ... well .. thisone is pretty good actualy, even thought the area could be a little biger, BUT you need to have played NB to a certain extent to be able to predict their moves because the cloak WILL STILL PUT HIM OFF YOUR SCREEN for almost 1 second before the Radiant Magelight kicks in and "reveals" him again
4. NB Mark .. well yu have to be NB to have thisone ... so no point in talking about thisone at all actually
Above said and considering the way Cloak works in current state of the game, I would agree that it gives NB's a little too good Advantage .. especially in IC enviroment.
P.S.: When even @sabresandiego_ESO makes a thread about cloak needing adjusting ... it speaks of itself,
1. Yes you make a point here. However, now you are talking about refining your skills as a player. You should always be able to anticipate situations such as this. From the moment you enter an area you should be thinking about all the possible scenarios you can find yourself in and moving in the appropriate direction. You should be able to understand that you aoe will hit npc. You shoudl time them and place them accordingly. IC is about balancing pve with pvp. By positioning yourself in the right areas or stepping back to be able to use your aoe is all about understanding your surroundings. I know aoe work because not only do I use them but other players use them against me. Players who know what they are doing will be able to use successfully without pulling npc. However, accidents do happen. It is important to note that IC is also not the only pvp area. So, the issues associated with using these skills in IC do not apply to outside the city where there are no npc.
2. Again this point goes to skill of the player. you state "A LOT of people hesitate to use because...." If you understand that popping a detect potion will unleash a nb furry then you have already anticipated the other players next move. you plan out your counter before you use the detect pot. be prepared to root them, cc them, use your ult, pop a sheild, etc. If you can anticipate the players movement then you have already beat them. That said, many nb will equally try to get out of range of the detect pots. A glass canon will want to run while a sustain build is more apt to stay and fight.
3. the issue mentioned in this point can be overcome with a gap closer.
4. I agree can not use this argument cause it is a NB based skill.
Bottom line is cloak is what makes a nb a nb. The point of a nb is to move through the world undetected. being able to weave through enemy players, both real and npc, is simply the nature of a nb. Just as a temp has ridiculous heals, a dk can tank crazy damage, and a sorc has amazing sheilds. There are counters to all of the above. Just because one class is better at accomplishing something than another class does not mean change them. Results like that would just make every class the same and therefore creating very little differences between the classes. What is the point of that? It is also important to remember that you can not simply look at an issue so narrowly. You can not just put these skills into context of one DLC. You must look to normal pvp and to pve scenarios. Bottle necking an issue into one area is not a good means to judge an issue. It is not good for the game as a whole when you do that.
I m not agruing FOR or AGAINST a nerf of a Cloak ...I'm simply stating that I can see why the OP has problem with Cloaking NB's in general and why are all those proclaimed "easy-cloak-counters" not as guaranteed counters as some people make them to be
just for instance in our case no.1: you can't go for AoE every time NB cloaks at you .. esp while he cloaks on his way to pack of mobs for example ... or when he/she intentionally pulls a pack of mobs and after "jumping at you", "cloaks trought them away" .. or even better when he pulls pack of mobs into your caltrops and then cloaks ... a tactics I m seeing in sewers more and more often
... I play a Stam NB myself ... And I can confirm that sometimes it's just too easy to go for a gank and get away when things turn south ... reset the fight .. rinse and repeat ...0 -
bowmanz607✭✭✭✭✭
✭twistedmonk wrote: »I think they just think NBs are overpowered because there are so many of them.
Stamina builds > magic builds. NBs just happen to have the 2 best magic dumps for stamina builds = cloak/fear - which is why they make the best stamina class in general
what is really overpowered/unbalanced/unfair is 2-hander/dual wield vs destro staff - lolz
I would say stamina hits harder, but magika will have higher sustain. Magika is also easier to learn while stamina has more technical nuances to pull off correctly.1 -
revonine✭✭✭✭bowmanz607 wrote: »twistedmonk wrote: »I think they just think NBs are overpowered because there are so many of them.
Stamina builds > magic builds. NBs just happen to have the 2 best magic dumps for stamina builds = cloak/fear - which is why they make the best stamina class in general
what is really overpowered/unbalanced/unfair is 2-hander/dual wield vs destro staff - lolz
I would say stamina hits harder, but magika will have higher sustain. Magika is also easier to learn while stamina has more technical nuances to pull off correctly.
I'd have to agree. Stamina management is so much more difficult than magicka. I went from a magicka to a stamina build and this is so noticable in PvE especially.0 -
Jumper45✭✭✭@Lord-Otto
Any MMORPG with PVP with a rogue class that can stealth -facepalm- Why are you saying anything now? its always been that way since the beginning of time. Damn as far back as i can remember. EQ? .... HELL Nexus TK? lmao. Dude just put the pot lid back on and simmer down. There are tons of counters for Stealth and popping out of stealth and doing burst damage has been a rogue staple since we were all but gleams in our fathers eyes. That goes for anyone who agrees with this. INFACT . In most of those games you got an ability that would make your disappear. Remove all dots. Make you immune to CCs and DOTs and leave you in stealth perma once it finished which is a far far far far cry from what cloak is now or hell for that matter most if not all of the other ones have perma stealth vs a 3 second window. You sound like youve been toxified by the situation but no matter im here to help you by saying. Forget about it....
What you need to realize is the PROBLEM isnt the class. Its the skill system. Most of those games also had counters ( while there are some now) which you had entire hotbars to fill with abilities. People are just unwilling to put a stealth counter on their bar because there is no room for it. You cant fit any counter on your bar so when it happens u just rage and QQ and come on over here to tell us about it. Fine whatever but still. Its not the "rogues" fault they are the way they have always been.
I suggest you put on radiant light ( most OP counter ever btw) and sit down and relax yourself. Go to sports clips get yourself a nice little hair cut and a massage and hot towel for your face and then come back and play and get that toxic crap outta here.
Do I even need to post this old tooltip? Did I mention by 50%? Did I also mention every class has access to it? Did I also also mention its an aoe?
RADIANT MAGELIGHT I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Cost 183 Magicka
Summon a mote of magelight to enhance your spellcasting, granting you Major Prophecy, which increases your Spell Critical rating by 10.
The mote also reveals hidden or invisible enemies, prevents being stunned by stealth attacks, and reduces damage from stealth attacks by 50% for you and nearby allies.
While toggled, your Max Magicka is reduced by 5%.
New Effect:
Reveals hidden enemies and nearby allies take less damage from stealth attacks.
Also it hasnt been nerfed in the way of bolt or dodge roll because it literally takes several casts to even get it to stick mid combat (2-4 casts) It would need to be completely revamped to be viable in any form. Such as a cooldown ( which game doesnt have any) but perma stealth. Once u start messing with the mechanics the entire "Assassin rogue scene" goes to complete crap. (JK) Honestly lets just bring over Killing Spree,Vanish,Cloak of shadows from WOW and see what happens. Just as an experiment you see! Dont worry we'll go back to the old cloak soon after. (JK)Edited by Jumper45 on October 9, 2015 10:52PM“All right, I've been thinking, when life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade! Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager!
Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons! Do you know who I am? I'm the man whose gonna burn your house down - with the lemons!” (Portal 2)
17 Years MMORPG Experience healing and I still havn't figured out why people stand in red circles.1 -
revonine✭✭✭✭@Lord-Otto
RADIANT MAGELIGHT I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Cost 183 Magicka
Summon a mote of magelight to enhance your spellcasting, granting you Major Prophecy, which increases your Spell Critical rating by 10.
The mote also reveals hidden or invisible enemies, prevents being stunned by stealth attacks, and reduces damage from stealth attacks by 50% for you and nearby allies.
While toggled, your Max Magicka is reduced by 5%.
New Effect:
Reveals hidden enemies and nearby allies take less damage from stealth attacks.
(JK)
Spoke about Magelight in this thread already but people just don't seem to wanna listen. Rather than slot a hard counter they just wanna faceroll everyone with the bars their using rather than adapt. I said already that I need CC to beat a blocking DK or shield spamming sorc or defile to kill a magicka templar I don't know why this counter is the exception to some and it's the most powerful hard counter of all.Edited by revonine on October 9, 2015 11:04PM0 -
LameoveR✭✭✭✭"I don't want to use Radiant Magelight, i'd better whine on forums."
- ESO Community.7 -
CtrlAltDlt✭✭✭@Lord-Otto
RADIANT MAGELIGHT I
Cast Time Instant
Target Self
Cost 183 Magicka
Summon a mote of magelight to enhance your spellcasting, granting you Major Prophecy, which increases your Spell Critical rating by 10.
The mote also reveals hidden or invisible enemies, prevents being stunned by stealth attacks, and reduces damage from stealth attacks by 50% for you and nearby allies.
While toggled, your Max Magicka is reduced by 5%.
New Effect:
Reveals hidden enemies and nearby allies take less damage from stealth attacks.
(JK)
Spoke about Magelight in this thread already but people just don't seem to wanna listen. Rather than slot a hard counter they just wanna faceroll everyone with the bars their using rather than adapt. I said already that I need CC to beat a blocking DK or shield spamming sorc or defile to kill a magicka templar I don't know why this counter is the exception to some and it's the most powerful hard counter of all.
Because the easiest path for them is to blame nb cloack rather than their incompetence, they want the best of both worlds without sacrificies.Edited by CtrlAltDlt on October 9, 2015 11:17PMPC NA - jeazzy
stamblade outnumbered pvp vol 1. youtu.be/h1ONYfpAJJ8
Stamblade outbumbered pvp vol 2. No cheese youtu.be/rN4_aRVMvWw0 -
LameoveR✭✭✭✭Don't forget that NB was made to be a gank class with all his bursts\invis.
And don't forget that Cyrodiil is not a park to take a weekend walk.
And i'm not playing NB
Edited by LameoveR on October 9, 2015 11:23PM1 -
Gern_Verkheart✭✭✭✭"I don't want to use Radiant Magelight, i'd better whine on forums."
- ESO Community.
Well, you don't have to use radiant magelight. I don't use it, instead I use Steel Tornado, Thundering Presence, and Streak, and I do just fine against Cloak spamming nightblade.
P.S. OP, I learned to use all those by coming on this forum and asking how to better my playstyle against cloak spamming NB's, instead of coming and ranting that NB's need nerfed and refusing to change how I played.1
This discussion has been closed.