Nightblades... Ridiculous!

Stigant

I actually use Radian magelight on my Stam Templar for my IC settup .. just on one bar .. the one I am at most of the time .. and it is really helpfull, it prevens a nice chunk of stealth damage as well as prevents getting stealth stuns ... since I ve got it into my "muscle memory" I have it up almost all the time .. so what I have said earlier (above) in this topic comes actually from experience ... from both sides (playing NB as well as against them) ... BUT I would, with all seriousness, NOT call it a hardcounter to cloak at all.
1. because of previously mentioned very low radius as well as a the time it takes to reveal "freshly cloaked" NB ... so some . ability to predict his/her movement is still required (which is actually a good thing i guess).
2. it will not help you finish off NB that didn't succeeded his attempt on you and now runs with double take on to "cloak trought" a pack of NPC's .. so you can expect him to be back pretty soon .. which stalls you at waiting for the gank since you can't really go to do anyhing else anyway ... you would put yourself into a disadvantage ...

All around it's safe to say .. inside IC Cloak is a little too good ... in Cyrodiil ... meh ... let them NB's run away ... I better slot Purifying ritual(even on Stam build) instead of Radiant Magelight for those "siege and field" battles

LiquidZ

It's not hard to take a NB out of stealth. Are you suggesting they remove the only rogue like class from the game? Stamina is still on the nerfy side for NB also. They may be able to stealth and do damage but the amount of stamina needed to actually survive in a fight needs to go into dodge rolling a lot of times and that eats stam like a chubby child eats cake.

Snowefox

SirAndy wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

There goes freedom of speech...

You just lost any credibility you may have had going into this.

There is no such thing as "freedom of speech" on a privately owned internet forum ...

But it /is/ a forum. Why put a forum up if you can't even give simple feedback?

Snowefox

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Pretty sure Mage NBs are nigh unstoppable.

Like, I see one, and I'm running yo

Oh man, don't even get me started.. 6 m8's and I went up against TWO of them, and they just hit n run us non stop, we couldn't freaking kill em.

grumlins

NB Stam skills are the weakest in the game right now and with the coming of Orsinium it seems that stam builds are still not being fixed for this class yet. So your post is quite funny actually.

Even a registered Filthy Casual and a documented Carebear finds this post funny.

There are serious problems with balance but not in the direction you are stating, ever been up against an endlessly healthy DK? yeah...talk about balance issues.

bowmanz607

grumlins wrote: »

NB Stam skills are the weakest in the game right now and with the coming of Orsinium it seems that stam builds are still not being fixed for this class yet. So your post is quite funny actually.

Even a registered Filthy Casual and a documented Carebear finds this post funny.

There are serious problems with balance but not in the direction you are stating, ever been up against an endlessly healthy DK? yeah...talk about balance issues.

Although I do not agree with OP I cant agree with your position on stam NB. Suprise attack is a spammable high hitting low cost stamina ability. DK and sorc have nothing that compare. Temps have jabs but it has a cast time. Not to mention you can dodge to cancel the animation of suprise attack meaning you can mitigate damage while hitting your opponent.

Also, Ambush. Not only is it the best gap closer in the game, but it hits pretty decent if your geared right while giving you a 20% boost to your next attack. that stacks with the 20% buff nb get from soul harvest and the major brutality buff.

Lastly, stam nb have one of the best skills in the game to get around the dodge roll nerf. That is they have cloak. Sorc would come in second imo with streak.

all in all, stam nb really are the cream of the crop. oh and thats right. One more thing. Suprise attack means we do not have to really on wrecking blow and it ridiculous cast time that any good player can avoid for the most part.

essenCe

I don't have a problem with NBs. They don't stand a chance. Lol. I'd just like it better if they couldn't just cloak and run.

If there is a potion that counters this, they are so done.

But yea, I never said they could kill me. That has not happened unless they were in a group.

TheNephilimCrow

essenCe wrote: »

I don't have a problem with NBs. They don't stand a chance. Lol. I'd just like it better if they couldn't just cloak and run.

If there is a potion that counters this, they are so done.

But yea, I never said they could kill me. That has not happened unless they were in a group.

...you don't know about the detection potions? Boy. I wonder how many people don't know about this.

TheNephilimCrow

In my honest opinion, there is no reason to nerf any class in this game. Just because there is something one class is doing that seems game breaking, there is one skill in yours that is doing the same thing. The game was made to compliment and counter each class skill each class has. Really think about it. All the CCs, Counters and overall Skills your class has a way of countering or cancelling out another Skill a class has. Seriously, write out all the class skills and write aside it what skills it trumps. It all equals out in the end. Of course, that is asking allot of many people in this community who claim to know the facts and statistics as they claim, but only ever generate a number and no photo evidence or how they acquire these things. The same people who don't use their natural cognitive ability to slot counters for such a small issue as Cloak.

mr_wazzabi

DannyLV702 wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I play a nightblade...I am pretty good ...I think. I kill most that I run into but yesterday I ran into baconator (sorc)and he destroyed me and 2 of my buddies....I took 17k dmg from dawnbreaker.... I also ran into a templar that I literally could not kill...his breath of life was greater than my best burst dps...


LEARN 2 PLAY

Baconator is in a class of his own lol

When you have close to 1000 champion points from pc and port over to console, you'll be in a class of your own too

ChefZero

Some guys in this forum should play WoW for some weeks... Against Rouge with perma stealth, passiv speed buff, active speed buff, dodge bubble etc... and you aren't able to use pots against them or spam skills cause of CDs

Shunravi

ChefZero wrote: »

Some guys in this forum should play WoW for some weeks... Against Rouge with perma stealth, passiv speed buff, active speed buff, dodge bubble etc... and you aren't able to use pots against them or spam skills cause of CDs

now there's an idea...

TheBull

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbXc9KDYcU
I rest my case

NordJitsu

SirAndy wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

There goes freedom of speech...

You just lost any credibility you may have had going into this.

There is no such thing as "freedom of speech" on a privately owned internet forum ...

There isn't as a legal right, but the ideal can certainly still exist.

I'm not aware of any company that allows it, but they could.

revonine

LameoveR wrote: »

Don't forget that NB was made to be a gank class with all his bursts\invis.
And don't forget that Cyrodiil is not a park to take a weekend walk.

And i'm not playing NB

TheBull wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbXc9KDYcU
I rest my case

So that's what those legendary BatDK's were like. I wasn't around back then but HOLY NUT BALLS that guy is immortal. I shudder to think how many kills he ended up with.
You guys...your complaints about anything now are trivial compared to that monstrosity.

bowmanz607

TheBull wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbXc9KDYcU
I rest my case

Umm this just shows that people don't understand that when someone is using bats to back up. The more ppl surrounding the person the better the person is. Not to mention, a person does not kill people when tanking that much. So if you die to a player Luke that then it is a lack of situational awarness

Shunravi

bowmanz607 wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbXc9KDYcU
I rest my case

Umm this just shows that people don't understand that when someone is using bats to back up. The more ppl surrounding the person the better the person is. Not to mention, a person does not kill people when tanking that much. So if you die to a player Luke that then it is a lack of situational awarness

hey, you should go back in time and tell people that so that they listen to reasonable counters and don't beg for nerfs!

Cody

As soon as NBs get a CLASS BASED SELF HEAL (not vigor, which is an HoT anyway, and is easily negated) you can take away our cloak. I made this speech frequently 5 months ago, and it appears I will need to continue making this speech.

However, the class is unbalanced in other areas.

Strife is the most obvious. My full on stamina NB with little-no magicka cost reductions can cast strife for 1190 magicka.... meaning someone who uses magicka reductions could potentially cast it for around 600-800!!! thats WAY to cheap and WAY to spammable for a 20-30K + resource pool potential. The cost needs to be increased, by quite a bit.

and yes, uppercut spam is annoying. The best way to deal with it is to snare your enemy and keep behind them so they can't hit you. DO NOT STAY IN FRONT OF THEM. Uppercut can hit you even if you are seemingly out of melee range. and if you get hit its hard to get out.

revonine

Cody wrote: »

As soon as NBs get a CLASS BASED SELF HEAL (not vigor, which is an HoT anyway, and is easily negated) you can take away our cloak. I made this speech frequently 5 months ago, and it appears I will need to continue making this speech.

However, the class is unbalanced in other areas.

Strife is the most obvious. My full on stamina NB with little-no magicka cost reductions can cast strife for 1190 magicka.... meaning someone who uses magicka reductions could potentially cast it for around 600-800!!! thats WAY to cheap and WAY to spammable for a 20-30K + resource pool potential. The cost needs to be increased, by quite a bit.

and yes, uppercut spam is annoying. The best way to deal with it is to snare your enemy and keep behind them so they can't hit you. DO NOT STAY IN FRONT OF THEM. Uppercut can hit you even if you are seemingly out of melee range. and if you get hit its hard to get out.

Yanno even as a Nightblade I can't argue tbh. Strife is seriously cheap to cast. I never had any sustain issue's or never even had to worry about sustain at all just weaving this skill with staff attacks in dungeons. I was full damage setup. No cost reduction or regen anywhere except coming from my CP. My base regen covered the cost of this skill and then some so I only ever spent magicka keeping my dots up. I had no need for siphoning attacks like stamina NB's do. To top it all of I was providing off heals just by doing dps which my templar loved. It might be...too cheap.
Coming back to PvP, the animation on this skill could be a little more obvious. Sometimes in battle I've no idea I'm getting hit with this skill except for the sound effect. Back when I was magicka my opponents must have often died wondering where their HP went. Though I only used it for awhile in 1.7 and in 1.6 I preferred Crushing shock.

revonine

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Lastly, stam nb have one of the best skills in the game to get around the dodge roll nerf. That is they have cloak. Sorc would come in second imo with streak.

This is my opinion obviously but I have a Sorc and a NB and I think Streak (even after the nerfs) is better than cloak. Probably because I like to play more offensively.

Aunatar

LoreRiley wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class and nightblade skills [Stamina] allways has been and still is the weakest of all the classes. we recently had some help but we are still lowest in damage output and survivability.
the magicka nightblade tho is and might be whaat your refering to? they have allways been high in damage and survive longer.

Um WHAT? lets review

Sorcs: only have bound armor, its not even an offensive ability its a buff.

DKs have 2 dots. burning breath which debuffs, and unstable flame. nice dots but both be purge and cloaked to remove

Templar has some good stamina morphs. Biting jabs is notably good critical self buff, knock back damage spam. binding javelin a CC with okay damage/range. Dont know how effective power of the light is for pvp.

Now Nighblade:
Ambush- gap closer that can gap close at any range (not aware of any other gap closer that can do this!), immobilizes target for 1 second, making it a great pvp gap closer. and buffs your next attack by 20% via empowered! and it can work to gap close even if the enemy is on a cliff, as it teleports you and so isn't restricted by needing a clear path to the enemy! oh and only stamina class gap closer in game.

Empowered Chains

Surprise attack- instant cast short animation damage spam, that debuffs the targets armor. if done from stealth/cloak it also cc's the target. and i believe it is more dps than biting jabs? Ergo the strongest class stamina DPS spam skill in game.

Crystal Frags

Killers blade: an execute. of course most wont use it because they use 2 hander and streamers state executioner or spamming more surprise attack is comparable damage at that point. but this is not so true vs a vampire say in 2.1 and when you include its an assassin ability so through passives boosts your critical chance as well as health regen (though tiny)on kill. its the only stamina class execute in game

Radiant Destruction

Power extraction; okay its naff as you get the buffs from other sources like rally or flying blade, and if you want a stamina AOE you use bow or DW.

See how bias you are you failed to provide the other classes abilities similar to that just to make a point

This is my first time saying so savor the moment
L2P
@willymchilybily

LOL
Chains: bugged 90% of the time. You can block them reflect them, they cost magicka, provide CC immunity and do very low dmg.
Crystal frag: projectyle, can be reflected, absorbed, ONE SECOND cast time, interruptable, only magicka morph.
Radian destruction: you can interrupt it, dodge it, purge or cloak it.

And YOU say L2P??

willymchilybily

LoreRiley wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class and nightblade skills [Stamina] allways has been and still is the weakest of all the classes. we recently had some help but we are still lowest in damage output and survivability.
the magicka nightblade tho is and might be whaat your refering to? they have allways been high in damage and survive longer.

Um WHAT? lets review

Sorcs: only have bound armor, its not even an offensive ability its a buff.

DKs have 2 dots. burning breath which debuffs, and unstable flame. nice dots but both be purge and cloaked to remove

Templar has some good stamina morphs. Biting jabs is notably good critical self buff, knock back damage spam. binding javelin a CC with okay damage/range. Dont know how effective power of the light is for pvp.

Now Nighblade:
Ambush- gap closer that can gap close at any range (not aware of any other gap closer that can do this!), immobilizes target for 1 second, making it a great pvp gap closer. and buffs your next attack by 20% via empowered! and it can work to gap close even if the enemy is on a cliff, as it teleports you and so isn't restricted by needing a clear path to the enemy! oh and only stamina class gap closer in game.

Empowered Chains

Surprise attack- instant cast short animation damage spam, that debuffs the targets armor. if done from stealth/cloak it also cc's the target. and i believe it is more dps than biting jabs? Ergo the strongest class stamina DPS spam skill in game.

Crystal Frags

Killers blade: an execute. of course most wont use it because they use 2 hander and streamers state executioner or spamming more surprise attack is comparable damage at that point. but this is not so true vs a vampire say in 2.1 and when you include its an assassin ability so through passives boosts your critical chance as well as health regen (though tiny)on kill. its the only stamina class execute in game

Radiant Destruction

Power extraction; okay its naff as you get the buffs from other sources like rally or flying blade, and if you want a stamina AOE you use bow or DW.

See how bias you are you failed to provide the other classes abilities similar to that just to make a point

This is my first time saying so savor the moment
L2P
@willymchilybily

@LoreRiley
the point was stamina morphs hence why i quoted @dwemer_paleologist and only listed stamina morphs. LOL. Thats "biased"?

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

nightblade class and nightblade skills [Stamina] allways has been and still is the weakest of all the classes. we recently had some help but we are still lowest in damage output and survivability.
the magicka nightblade tho is and might be whaat your refering to? they have allways been high in damage and survive longer.

Stamina skills, thats the point , S T A M I N A. I was emphasising as far as stamina class skills go NB is doing very well for itself. Dont see many stamina sorc throwing out crystal frags but im willing to L2P, teach me how NB stamina morph options are worse than DK/Sorc stamina morphs.There is no shame in being in need of learning.

but maybe you should L2R (Learn 2 Read) before critiquing someones views out of context
and empowered chains compared to ambush is laughable. have you tried a magicka DK in pvp recently?

edit: ps i dont agree with the OP, but dont think stamina NB is "weak" like dwemer_paleologist i think it's just as it should be, but there are others that need some work to bring them on par.

bowmanz607

revonine wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Lastly, stam nb have one of the best skills in the game to get around the dodge roll nerf. That is they have cloak. Sorc would come in second imo with streak.

This is my opinion obviously but I have a Sorc and a NB and I think Streak (even after the nerfs) is better than cloak. Probably because I like to play more offensively.

I rarely use cloak to run and hide. When I play my nb I use it offensively. Howevere, I am a bosmer so I get a 10% boost to power when I hit from stealth. But I do think Streak is pretty solid.

I_killed_Vivec

If for no other reasons than aesthetics, you just should not be able to hit out of stealth with a six foot sword!

And I can't help thinking that if someone sets your cloak on fire you should have to run and jump into the nearest pond

eliisra

bowmanz607 wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbXc9KDYcU
I rest my case

Umm this just shows that people don't understand that when someone is using bats to back up. The more ppl surrounding the person the better the person is. Not to mention, a person does not kill people when tanking that much. So if you die to a player Luke that then it is a lack of situational awarness

You clearly have no clue what you're looking at, since you're applying normal build rules. New player or console?

This isn't some 1.5 tanky DK. It's from back in may 2014, first weeks of this game, the short era of immortal vamps.

With dynamic ultimate regen, uncapped AoE and max ulti cost reduction, you could get the cost of Bats down to 0-15 depending on class, hit a new one instantly. They stacked at the time. That guy has around 5-8+ Devouring swarms going at the same time with unlimited targets, so the AoE dps can insta-kill people stupid enough to get in range of him.

The sorc version with Clouding Swarm was even more broken, since you couldn't just "stay away" from their Bats, due to Streak.

Kind of pointless to compare that to anything going on in today's ESO anyway. Cloak spam, perma-block DK's, shield stack sorcs or whatever we have now or had in the past, that stuff was just a smaller inconvenience, in comparison to immortal vamps.

bowmanz607

eliisra wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwbXc9KDYcU
I rest my case

Umm this just shows that people don't understand that when someone is using bats to back up. The more ppl surrounding the person the better the person is. Not to mention, a person does not kill people when tanking that much. So if you die to a player Luke that then it is a lack of situational awarness

You clearly have no clue what you're looking at, since you're applying normal build rules. New player or console?

This isn't some 1.5 tanky DK. It's from back in may 2014, first weeks of this game, the short era of immortal vamps.

With dynamic ultimate regen, uncapped AoE and max ulti cost reduction, you could get the cost of Bats down to 0-15 depending on class, hit a new one instantly. They stacked at the time. That guy has around 5-8+ Devouring swarms going at the same time with unlimited targets, so the AoE dps can insta-kill people stupid enough to get in range of him.

The sorc version with Clouding Swarm was even more broken, since you couldn't just "stay away" from their Bats, due to Streak.

Kind of pointless to compare that to anything going on in today's ESO anyway. Cloak spam, perma-block DK's, shield stack sorcs or whatever we have now or had in the past, that stuff was just a smaller inconvenience, in comparison to immortal vamps.

I apologize. When i watched the video I did on my phone so could not see as much. I thought you were showing a recent build of a player being able to sustain in a fight against a ton of people with bats. I thought your point was to show that bats are currently op or something. I was just trying to state that a player like that is easy to break down when you are aware how to bring them down.

I was wrong and now understand what the video shows. Yes, that crap was insane back in the day.A NB with devouring swarm and sap was also very annoying.

a.skelton92

This is why complete freedom of choice to what skills you use and having no dedicated "talent trees" is a problem.. It's stupid, some of the builds you can make in this game.. There is a reason most games do not allow a Mage to heal etc or a warrior to stealth... It's completely illogical. I know this game is trying to be as much like the single player ES games as poss but in a MMO sitting it doesn't make sense.

Someone that makes a night blade (or any class) should have to make sacrifices. If you choose the magic tree, you can't stealth (or not as well at least) where as someone that chooses the "assassin tree" is better with stealth. Makes for a much more balanced game. I know someone will point their chubby "wow clone" fingers at me, but this is how all MMOs work, this game will always have horrendous balance issues as they cannot "hone in" on a single issue.. If they nerf one skill, they nerf it for EVERYONE which is stupid.

Unless of course they bring in other ES aspects such as people in heavy armour cannot stealth as well as people in light etc and people in light are actually squishy as it SHOULD be.

Gunphu

The real issue is IC caters to stealth/ gank gameplay. NBs are not outperforming out of IC this includes standard cyrodiil. They do however still preform very well.

The problem with giving DKs and temps any sort of engage and disengagement ability is they would actually be insanely overpowered. IDK what people are thinking but a STA DK and templar have better damage and substantially better survivability (outside of cloak).

To the OP you clearly havent researched this game at all.... DK = godmode at release and shortly after Sorcs all the way till IC. But once again IC caters to ganking.

If any of you watched the 2v2 tournament you also would have seen that every class played by a competent player did VERY well and no class really outshined the others (debatable that Mag sorc seemed slightly more effective).

revonine

Gunphu wrote: »

The real issue is IC caters to stealth/ gank gameplay. NBs are not outperforming out of IC this includes standard cyrodiil. They do however still preform very well.

The problem with giving DKs and temps any sort of engage and disengagement ability is they would actually be insanely overpowered. IDK what people are thinking but a STA DK and templar have better damage and substantially better survivability (outside of cloak).

To the OP you clearly havent researched this game at all.... DK = godmode at release and shortly after Sorcs all the way till IC. But once again IC caters to ganking.

If any of you watched the 2v2 tournament you also would have seen that every class played by a competent player did VERY well and no class really outshined the others (debatable that Mag sorc seemed slightly more effective).

I'mm hitting the agree button multiple times but it's not stacking

Cody

revonine wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

As soon as NBs get a CLASS BASED SELF HEAL (not vigor, which is an HoT anyway, and is easily negated) you can take away our cloak. I made this speech frequently 5 months ago, and it appears I will need to continue making this speech.

However, the class is unbalanced in other areas.

Strife is the most obvious. My full on stamina NB with little-no magicka cost reductions can cast strife for 1190 magicka.... meaning someone who uses magicka reductions could potentially cast it for around 600-800!!! thats WAY to cheap and WAY to spammable for a 20-30K + resource pool potential. The cost needs to be increased, by quite a bit.

and yes, uppercut spam is annoying. The best way to deal with it is to snare your enemy and keep behind them so they can't hit you. DO NOT STAY IN FRONT OF THEM. Uppercut can hit you even if you are seemingly out of melee range. and if you get hit its hard to get out.

Yanno even as a Nightblade I can't argue tbh. Strife is seriously cheap to cast. I never had any sustain issue's or never even had to worry about sustain at all just weaving this skill with staff attacks in dungeons. I was full damage setup. No cost reduction or regen anywhere except coming from my CP. My base regen covered the cost of this skill and then some so I only ever spent magicka keeping my dots up. I had no need for siphoning attacks like stamina NB's do. To top it all of I was providing off heals just by doing dps which my templar loved. It might be...too cheap.
Coming back to PvP, the animation on this skill could be a little more obvious. Sometimes in battle I've no idea I'm getting hit with this skill except for the sound effect. Back when I was magicka my opponents must have often died wondering where their HP went. Though I only used it for awhile in 1.7 and in 1.6 I preferred Crushing shock.

I have fought MELEE players that literally do nothing but block cast strife its way to cheap and needs adjustment. The fact people choose to complain about a 2.5 second long cloak that can be broken by magelight, detect pots, AOE attacks(yes my cloak has been shut off by AOE attacks, the single target only shut off has not happened yet, at least to me) and can even be broken by a gap closer AFTER THE CLOAK HAS BEEN USED; instead of what may be the most spammable skill in the game, astounds me. Its not a weak spell either! it does some pretty decent damage, WITH healing tacked on! Combine that with a player that can manage block really well, and you have a TRUE imbalance issue, not some 2.5 second long cloak that does not even work half the time, and can really only be spammed by half of the NB playerbase:(

Nevertheless, the nerfs will come. Best get used to it. Its partly why im switching classes. I refuse to force myself to become a magicka NB just to be viable, nor will I force myself to become an uppercut spammer.