Official Feedback Thread for Crafting Node Scaling

Casdha · October 2015

Pangnirtung wrote: »

Hagebutte wrote: »

So good luck to anyone who plans to farm those mats there. It's boring as f*** and whoever came up with the idea that the old mats are all over the place should really think about that decision. The fact that you need a ton of material to craft V16 apparently was not enough of a grind ...

This one thousand times!

Why on earth does a VR16 character NEED lower level mats?

A truly confounding idea and to whoever thought of it I would like to know your reasoning behind this?

It is not that a VR16 needs lower mats, It is that a level 5 in Blacksmithing (or choose your crafting style/level) does.

barrrt · October 2015

I liked the idea when I first heard of it, but after running around Wrothgar and seeing iron everywhere… I really don’t like it. Most of us casual players have no time to spend 1-2 hours a day to farm - we obtain our mats in a course of normal play. With only lowest level mats available to non-crafting toons, there will be much less of an incentive for them to go into Wrothgar (vs. Craglorn, for example) after finishing the quest line.

Yes, I know we could spend (up to) 30 skill points on each toon… but, no, they are needed elsewhere… that’s why crafting toons exist.

What if… what if… the nodes scaled off of the highest skill points spent for a profession on the entire account, and not the character itself?

This way, all toons could still contribute to material gathering for writs. Like they do for alchemy and provisioning.

i3ig_Gun · October 2015

I think this is a WONDERFUL Idea @ZOS keep up the great work!

I'm a 100% master crafter, designated all points I could into all crafting all at 50

I'm also a 9 trait crafter, I cant wait to craft up some of this new gear for people.

And I'm sure ill be spending ALOT of my time farming for materials

Saltypretzels · October 2015

I don't want to have to do writs with super rare ingredients. Are we still going to be able to do voidstone/nightwood/void bloom writs even when at max level?

Fya0713 · October 2015

Terrible...but good too.....i don't know....I'd probably say more terrible than good. Here's why. On my Sorc/Templar/NB, I will never level up crafting. I don't want to, and there's no point to because I have a crafter. Therefore, I do not want to find iron ore on my v16 Sorc when I'm just throwing the mats I find over to my crafter anyways..same goes for my Templar and NB. If I wanted to level their crafting, I wouldn't do it farming mats, I would do it through deconstructing items. So actually NO, it's not a good thing. It should be v16 nodes, and if low level players want to farm mats they can do it in the low level zones.

angelyn · October 2015

tyler_spearsb14_ESO wrote: »

I think this is a WONDERFUL Idea @ZOS keep up the great work!

I'm a 100% master crafter, designated all points I could into all crafting all at 50

I'm also a 9 trait crafter, I cant wait to craft up some of this new gear for people.

And I'm sure ill be spending ALOT of my time farming for materials

Great idea to reward crafters

, poorly implemented

.V16 mats are exponentially harder to obtain than V14 mats. This is why I've fed back some suggestions that will still reward crafters but stop the ridiculous grind. If ZOS'S true intention is to reward crafters and not implement a grind in order to drive the sales of future crown store items(Crafting mats already in store), then they should reduce the rarity.

angelyn wrote: »

They have already added 3 things to increase rarity, compared to V14 materials:

IC DLC ( V16 mats compared to availability of V14 mat availability )

Systems that increase rarity:
*You need 10 times as many mats to craft V16
*Deconstructing items will give you 1 piece only
*Hireling seem to send 1 piece every now and then
*No V16 mat nodes

Systems that decrease rarity:
Crafting writs don't require V16 materials

Orsinium DLC ( V16 mat availability compared to V14 mat availability )

Systems that increase rarity:
*You need 10 times as many mats to craft V16
*Deconstructing items will give you 1 piece only
*Hireling seem to send 1 piece every now and then
*Crafting nodes will now only drop those materials, if you have the passives invested.
*Even if you have the points invested, it isn't guaranteed that higher level materials will drop from nodes in DLC, they also may drop lower level materials
*Writs will now use the new materials(?)

Systems that decrease rarity:
*V16 nodes have been added (but will still result in less mats than V14 node availability )

Suggestions for improvements
*Increase the amount of V16 that the nodes drop/or increase the amount of nodes.
* Ensure that all nodes in DLC will drop the highest material that crafters can craft. (Ie no chance of low level mats).
*increase the amounts of V16 that hireling send. Current level is pitiful.
*increase the amounts of V16 mats (not style materials or traits) that crafters can get from deconstructing V15/V16 drops. They already have skill points invested into this- however it doesn't seem to affect V15/V16 drops? You only get one piece no matter how many skill points invested into increasing decon loot.

lonewolf26 · October 2015

So far I played about 3 hours, harvesting nodes as I went.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Is it clear that crafting nodes are scaling to the passive, and do you find that more enjoyable that scaling to your level?

If I'm interpreting the patch notes correctly, someone with 10 points in a skill will find rank 9 materials and randomly encounter rank 10 nodes. On my toon with max woodworking, blacksmithing and clothier I only encountered voidstone, void cloth and night wood nodes. I never encountered rubedite, ancient silk or ruby ash. However in killing monsters that dropped leather I consistently received rubedo leather scraps.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*] Do Veteran Rank 15 and above materials still feel rare?

For everything but rubedo leather, exceedingly so. Perhaps too rare. It's still more lucrative to decon items, which are far more plentiful.

Fya0713 · October 2015

P.S: There are no v16 nodes anywhere so the new zone would be a great place to put them. Low level players can benefit from them too because they're so important when you get to v15-v16. So they can save them up and be straight when they hit end-game. @ZOS_GinaBruno see above comment too.

Grunim · October 2015

Is it clear that crafting nodes are scaling to the passive, and do you find that more enjoyable that scaling to your level?

Hmm, I have more higher level characters than I do crafting characters and this system makes me feel like I will need to devote points into crafting levels and hirelings for my non-crafting characters. I'm not sure that I find this approach more enjoyable than scaling to my level, but it does give me something to strive for in that I'll need to focus on acquiring more skill points for every character.

Do Veteran Rank 15 and above materials still feel rare?

Yes, the VR15 materials did feel rare. Rare enough that I realized I will put points back into crafting hirelings for my non-crafting characters, something I haven't done in many months. I wandered around and found more VR10-14 mats than VR15 so when I did a crafting blacksmithing writ and received a blacksmithing survey I took the time to find the node on my own and got excited finding rich VR15 ore.

Rosveen · October 2015

I'm not sure how this rewards crafters unless your crafter is also your main. I have dedicated crafters with maxed out professions and almost all traits researched. What I don't have is time to farm for hours on end. I normally acquire materials for my own use through harvesting while questing. This will be impossible now unless I sink 30+ points into crafting on my most active characters (the equipment crafter isn't one). Only one of them actually has the points to spare. It's not the end of the world, but I can't say I like this change.

In any case, as long as there isn't a reliable way of acquiring v15 mats, we should have the option to do v9 writs instead. How about connecting the level of writ to the zone it was picked up in? It should have been this way from the start imo.

MikeB · October 2015

The crafting nodes working off how many points you have in the skill is the way it should be. This will make sure the nodes cannot be farmed by any VR16 toon, only those who have spent skill points in the skill they are collecting for. This will make it so the node's are not farmed 24/7. Of course as already stated it could also mean jerks are going to go around popping every node with zero points spent in the skill just so other's that have max points in a skill dont get the "end game" mats from said node. You know its going to happen, please just think of a solution before it goes live.

angelyn · October 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

I'm not sure how this rewards crafters unless your crafter is also your main. I have dedicated crafters with maxed out professions and almost all traits researched. What I don't have is time to farm for hours on end. I normally acquire materials for my own use through harvesting while questing. This will be impossible now unless I sink 30+ points into crafting on my most active characters (the equipment crafter isn't one). Only one of them actually has the points to spare. It's not the end of the world, but I can't say I like this change.

In any case, as long as there isn't a reliable way of acquiring v15 mats, we should have the option to do v9 writs instead. How about connecting the level of writ to the zone it was picked up in? It should have been this way from the start imo.

Agree, I have 3 crafts on a main and then 1 craft each on 3 other characters. As you say we have already dedicated time into levelling up our crafts, invested skill points and researched traits. Now that there is a ridiculous grind/rarity with crafting mats we will have to farm.

It's getting to the point now where I might not even bother with crafting anymore. I'm even starting to wonder if that is ZOS'S objective. I don't like that each new crafting thing added has a trillion layers of grind, now coupled with a trillion levels of RNG.If this is the level of rarity/grind i worry about how bad it will be in future updates.When something is no longer fun, I stop doing it. I stopped collecting motifs after Dwemer - I'll also never buy stuff from the crown store that was implemented with an obvious in game grind in order to drive crown store sales. (Glass motif, XP potions, Malachite style material and soon Akiviri motif and glass scale style material). I will fritter many crowns away on costumes

, but please stop putting massive grinds in game to drive crown sales.

Ourorboros · October 2015

I'm not on PTS, takes time I would rather spend on live. After reading this thread and a few others, here is what I surmised about crafting:

@NovaShadow

Two things from patch notes I have not seen confirmed: Can v15-16 mats be harvested in Cyrodiil? CONFIRMED Has anyone harvested nirncrux in LOWER Craglorn?

I am not, and likely never will be, a high level player able to do all content. Just not wired that way. I've gotten a lot of enjoyment focusing on crafting and doing the achievements I can. This DLC and IC seem to be anti-crafting. I'm used to grinding, having spent a lot of time farming nirncrux. But nirn is used for only one thing and does not require large amounts to have an impact. Plus the other mats gathered farming nirn were useful for writs and profit. IC and Orsinium have changed the game for mediocre players. I can't get high end dropped loot and now getting mats is a worse grind than nirncrux, so crafting gear is a major undertaking. There does not even appear to be a way to harvest rune nodes. My sub ends 11/1, and I've been wondering whether to renew. ZOS made the decision easy, since the craft grind is ending one of my major pursuits. A game should be fun, not feel like a job. At some point addicts hit bottom and quit, or die. This is looking like the bottom for me.

helediron · October 2015

If writs require rubby mats, then 100% of nodes must drop ruby mats in Wrothgar for 10/10 points in craft. Currently Craglorn can't provide enough top tier writ mats when doing them with multiple toons. Imagine if there 80% of nodes would drop low level crap.

Increase the amount of nodes. I ran through the whole Wrothgar map. Craglorn has higher node density. EDIT: The node density varies. Some areas are dense while some areas are quite empty. After second pass the western side is quite ok.

Casdha · October 2015

FYI I don't do trials, DA, or Vet level group dungeons and I have never complained about not having any of those shiny new set pieces that can only be obtained by going to those areas.

Thought some of these posts could use some perspective.

mlstevens42_ESO · October 2015

The only thing that is bothersome about this change to me other then not enough nodes with the new stuff is that means I have to log on several toons to get mats. A little inconvenient but not a game killer for me.

Johngo0036 · October 2015

I started off with my vr14 template char as my chars have not been loaded,

I read all the blurb yesterday morning,
couldn't understand why I could only farm iron, maple and jute,

Put out a comment on zone chat and someone says "remember it scales to your crafting"
This was the DUH moment for me, quickly upped my crafting skills and was getting vr14 mats...

Also killed a load of some animal and managed to get some vr15&16 Mats..

NICE..

Elephant42 · October 2015

Casdha wrote: »

FYI I don't do trials, DA, or Vet level group dungeons and I have never complained about not having any of those shiny new set pieces that can only be obtained by going to those areas.

Thought some of these posts could use some perspective.

Neither have I complained about not being able to do those things. However, up until the IC patch I was able to readily find all crafting materials needed to craft any item that I had the skill level for, with little to no grinding/farming needed, just harvest nodes as they are encountered during normal questing.

Suddenly that situation was completely turned on its head. Currently the only way to obtain the materials for V15 level items is locked behind a combat/pvp/grind/farm gate, and for V16 the grind/farm is 10x worse.

The whole crafting paradigm was completely turned on its head and I (along with many others I suspect) had high hopes that this new DLC would redress this situation. Now the new DLC does provide another way to obtain the mats but sadly, with the pitifull drop rate currently on the new nodes, it is just a stale crust thrown to a starving person

Casdha · October 2015

Elephant42 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

FYI I don't do trials, DA, or Vet level group dungeons and I have never complained about not having any of those shiny new set pieces that can only be obtained by going to those areas.

Thought some of these posts could use some perspective.

Neither have I complained about not being able to do those things. However, up until the IC patch I was able to readily find all crafting materials needed to craft any item that I had the skill level for, with little to no grinding/farming needed, just harvest nodes as they are encountered during normal questing.

You still can, you just have to spend the skill points on it the way it is now. My highest level character is also my crafter and I completed the IC main quest with him. He has barely enough skill points to fill up both ability bars after crafting and passives.

Players who choose this path deserve something for their choices as they have lost so much by making them.

Don't forget this is only in Orsinium and Cyrodiil, all though I''m not sure if the 15 16 mats are in Cyrodiil, I have yet to find the red ones there. Also, I can't get into the campaign with the other non crafting character I tried (different faction) to see if scaling is actually working.

Edit: FYI I've gotten more from mob dropped gear than I have found the good nodes, so there is still a way to get the mats here for everyone.

Turelus · October 2015

I think the nodes scaling from your invested SP is a much better idea than the base level.

This means you can always harvest the materials for your writs never ones beyond what your writs require. This is also a nice buff to players who invest their SP into crafting skills and thus have to take a loss in their PvP/PvE power.

It brings back some of those choices and consequences we used to hear about.

Elephant42 · October 2015

Casdha wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

FYI I don't do trials, DA, or Vet level group dungeons and I have never complained about not having any of those shiny new set pieces that can only be obtained by going to those areas.

Thought some of these posts could use some perspective.

Neither have I complained about not being able to do those things. However, up until the IC patch I was able to readily find all crafting materials needed to craft any item that I had the skill level for, with little to no grinding/farming needed, just harvest nodes as they are encountered during normal questing.

You still can, you just have to spend the skill points on it the way it is now. My highest level character is also my crafter and I completed the IC main quest with him. He has barely enough skill points to fill up both ability bars after crafting and passives.

Players who choose this path deserve something for their choices as they have lost so much by making them.

Don't forget this is only in Orsinium and Cyrodiil, all though I''m not sure if the 15 16 mats are in Cyrodiil, I have yet to find the red ones there. Also, I can't get into the campaign with the other non crafting character I tried (different faction) to see if scaling is actually working.

Edit: FYI I've gotten more from mob dropped gear than I have found the good nodes, so there is still a way to get the mats here for everyone.

You've completely missed the point. My post was not about skill levels or choices it was about drastic changes to the crafting system. The crafting materials for pre V15 are readily available without any grinding/farming or combat required. The materials for V15 are only obtainable in USEABLE quantities by either grinding/farming or combat, and those for V16 require 10x as much grind/farm/combat.

If all the nodes in Wrothgar dropped V15+ materials (provided your crafting passive was high enough) then I would have nothing to complain about.

Johngo0036 · October 2015

@Elephant42 - How do you get shadowhide?

I love the change as now not any person has VR16 gear,
you really have to work hard to get it..

I do think that 120 - 150 materials for one piece is a bit absurd but life goes on..

splat71 · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Crafting nodes should scale to character level, not the amount of skill points invested into the crafting proficiency. As it is, this forces ppl to spend another 30 skill points on their alts to be able to harvest useful mats.

^^ This

The reality for me is that staring at the screen deconing items or making junk items to level is not fun nor how I want to spend my limited game time. But with this setup, I'll be doing that a lot just to max crafting on all my alts so I can harvest useful materials as I go about my adventuring.

mlstevens42_ESO · October 2015

They are in cyrodiil......I have seen them there. Yes it seems to scale as the one I took there has maxed out smithing but no other crafting.

NovaShadow · October 2015

For anyone that wants to know:

Ourorboros · October 2015

NovaShadow wrote: »

For anyone that wants to know:

@NovaShadow Nice find. How about some details? Was this in Orsinium?

NovaShadow · October 2015

Ourorboros wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

For anyone that wants to know:

@NovaShadow Nice find. How about some details? Was this in Orsinium?

Yes, near a wayshrine in the south, can't remember which one though.

Casdha · October 2015

Elephant42 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Elephant42 wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

FYI I don't do trials, DA, or Vet level group dungeons and I have never complained about not having any of those shiny new set pieces that can only be obtained by going to those areas.

Thought some of these posts could use some perspective.

Neither have I complained about not being able to do those things. However, up until the IC patch I was able to readily find all crafting materials needed to craft any item that I had the skill level for, with little to no grinding/farming needed, just harvest nodes as they are encountered during normal questing.

You still can, you just have to spend the skill points on it the way it is now. My highest level character is also my crafter and I completed the IC main quest with him. He has barely enough skill points to fill up both ability bars after crafting and passives.

Players who choose this path deserve something for their choices as they have lost so much by making them.

Don't forget this is only in Orsinium and Cyrodiil, all though I''m not sure if the 15 16 mats are in Cyrodiil, I have yet to find the red ones there. Also, I can't get into the campaign with the other non crafting character I tried (different faction) to see if scaling is actually working.

Edit: FYI I've gotten more from mob dropped gear than I have found the good nodes, so there is still a way to get the mats here for everyone.

You've completely missed the point. My post was not about skill levels or choices it was about drastic changes to the crafting system. The crafting materials for pre V15 are readily available without any grinding/farming or combat required. The materials for V15 are only obtainable in USEABLE quantities by either grinding/farming or combat, and those for V16 require 10x as much grind/farm/combat.

If all the nodes in Wrothgar dropped V15+ materials (provided your crafting passive was high enough) then I would have nothing to complain about.

I agree that if you have the skill points, then all nodes should drop VR15/16 mats. I amended my comment in a later post, after my original, to include this. I must have miss read something in your statement.

trippingchrissy · October 2015

Yeah, I've found 2 or 3 Rejera in my travels, so they're out there! (Thanks, RNG, now make that happen on live.)

Falhael · October 2015

So I went to Wrothgar again today, gathering V15/16 mats just to complete one writ and see whether the rewards are as useless as they are on live. All in all it took me about 3-4 hours of gathering mats. Woodworking writ cannot be completed due to the bristlecone thing that is required and after all the time I spent gathering mats I was still missing 3 refined ore to complete the blacksmith writ (since I'm on a template character I can't just use what I already have). However I was able to complete the clothier writ and if they don't do anything about droprates/number of new nodes I will never ever do one of those writs again...

Here is what I got

So I used about 50 ancestor silk, will get one back from deconning that white item. There's the dreugh wax and let's just forget about the sardonyx.

So at current prices (PC/EU) 50 silk are worth roughly 30-35k gold, dreugh wax is about 2-3k gold. Doing those writs seems like one of the biggest wastes of money available in game. Sure, I could have gotten a survey and gotten some mats back but I wouldn't rely on that. I've been doing writs for a very long time on multiple characters now and the chances of getting surveys are just too low to make it worthwhile. Glass motif fragments are also only worth about 10k anymore so even if one of those had been in there, it would still have been a waste of money.

As a level 50 crafter I don't need the inspiration and 600 gold quest reward is not even close to anything that would feel rewarding.