The only good counter I've found to this running small mans in the sewers is to pull their grps into a long tunnel when they spot you, then move forward through the tunnel slowly killing them one by one.Well, it's probably in combination with other things.
Zerg buffs, higher TTK, passives and cloak "fix", for example.
Fights never end, because a zerg can revive faster than any smaller force can dps. There's no way you can guard all dead bodies when outnumbered. Always a dozen Kagrenac's Hope NB's cloaking around getting people up in 2 seconds, popping like mushrooms.
Than there's the set together with other passives. With this set and Battle Resurrection on NB, I can revive a player while cloaked the entire duration. Intended? With this set on templar+ full passives, I revive so fast that interrupts are futile. Can also pop new 17 seconds invisi potion and revive everyone nearby before it runs out.
But not all is bad. At least you get bigger def/attack ticks now, if you actually win lol.
Yeah I've lost so many amazing battles with Cinn 2 v 10ing or so where we literally kill 6 of them only to have the remaining four just stop attacking and everyone goes into battle ress formation and 2 people can't stop 4 people from ressing everyone else back up.
I've had fights in IC sewers against PvE zergs that were the same. It's like the moment someone dies 1 or 2 people just run to them and start ressing them. If you are already fighting outnumbered, standing on everyones corpses while trying to kill everyone else is just not possible.
I'm sorry, what?Joy_Division wrote: »This was not an issue before ZoS married the best magicka DPS set with the best healer utility bonus. Now every magicka based player is a insta-resser,
I hate to be that person who brings up DAOC, but i'm going to be that person.
It had a rez penalty... didn't last long..like a minute if I remember... The biggy though was the fact that game was heavily buff based..and when you died you lost all your buffs..So when ya rezzed not only did ya get the penalty but you also had to be rebuffed so you could actually do something in combat worth anything.
Joy_Division wrote: »This was not an issue before ZoS married the best magicka DPS set with the best healer utility bonus. Now every magicka based player is a insta-resser,
ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »Best solution that I can think of to this is to remove the 25% decrease time for the set and make the spell power 5 piece bonus 324 spell damage v16 gold. Or better yet change the 25% decrease time to increase damage by 25% any time you cast a spell while invisible. That seems more than fair.
Edit to remove my assertion that this isn't a problem. Having thought it over I might have been a little too hasty. Although I still firmly believe that the set should have the 25% increased damage while invisible and a further buff to the spell power 5 piece bonus and if you want to keep the reduced rez time that's fine....I really don't care.
Oh and make some spell power enchants for weapons too.
The 25% faster res was always with this set, they just added the spelldamage bonus to make 8 trait sets more powerful...but I guess that extra spelldamage is quite a bit too much >.>
timidobserver wrote: »I guess the nerf kagrenac campaign has starting. We must be running out of stuff to nerf....
timidobserver wrote: »I guess the nerf kagrenac campaign has starting. We must be running out of stuff to nerf....
I guess the nerf reading campaign has started. We must be running of out people who can read through even the OP, much less the follow-up posts reaffirming that a nerf to kag's wouldn't be favored.
Rez sickness, cooldowns on rezzing, increasing the rez duration, and others have all been suggested. But I guess we used words that were too big or something.
timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I guess the nerf kagrenac campaign has starting. We must be running out of stuff to nerf....
I guess the nerf reading campaign has started. We must be running of out people who can read through even the OP, much less the follow-up posts reaffirming that a nerf to kag's wouldn't be favored.
Rez sickness, cooldowns on rezzing, increasing the rez duration, and others have all been suggested. But I guess we used words that were too big or something.
The main idea of the thread is that Kagrenac's Hope is a problem. If ZOS agrees they will just nerf/remove it rather than expending the resources to implement some kind of convoluted penalty system. So, yeh I see a nerf to the set as a potential outcome of the thread, thus my post.
Teargrants wrote: »I'm sorry, what?Joy_Division wrote: »This was not an issue before ZoS married the best magicka DPS set with the best healer utility bonus. Now every magicka based player is a insta-resser,
Maybe you are not, but the thread title definitely points toward Kagrenac's being the cause of a problem similar to the problem caused by forward camps. It draws a parallel between Kagrenac's and forwards camps not battle ressing. The entire OP is about Kagrenac's giving large groups an advantage not battle ressing. General battle ressing is not mentioned once.timidobserver wrote: »timidobserver wrote: »I guess the nerf kagrenac campaign has starting. We must be running out of stuff to nerf....
I guess the nerf reading campaign has started. We must be running of out people who can read through even the OP, much less the follow-up posts reaffirming that a nerf to kag's wouldn't be favored.
Rez sickness, cooldowns on rezzing, increasing the rez duration, and others have all been suggested. But I guess we used words that were too big or something.
The main idea of the thread is that Kagrenac's Hope is a problem. If ZOS agrees they will just nerf/remove it rather than expending the resources to implement some kind of convoluted penalty system. So, yeh I see a nerf to the set as a potential outcome of the thread, thus my post.
No one is saying Kagrenac's Hope is the problem, they're saying that it only exacerbates an existing problem. This was happening back in 1.6. It is only even more prevalent now, especially since so many people are running the set. Battle ressing is becoming another nail in the coffin for small group combat while promoting the zergs that are killing PvP.
Your comments as usual add nothing intelligent to the conversation. If you have something to say, by all means...
For full disclosure, I was never a fan of forward camps as I felt they enabled players to pvp sloppily and have almost zero consequences since they could just rez up 15 feet from the fight and join the battle seconds after dying. But, this isn't a debate about the merits of forward camps. ZOS removed them for a reason, and while all I can do is guess, I'd say it's an educated guess that they were removed because forward camps tended to favor players with larger numbers and whoever was in a better position to have people peel off from the fight to make sure a fresh forward camp was put down. Death had little penalty.
With 2.1, sets were tweaked, and I think players are starting to finalize what the 2.1 meta will look like. In my experience so far, 2.1 is feeling very, very similar to the 1.1-1.4 meta when forward camps allowed the entire group that you wiped to respawn and bomb your backline 5 seconds later. The groups I've run with in pvp have had a quick rezzer that wore the set, but since 2.1 makes kag's hope the absolute best crafted set for spell damage, it seems like everyone and their mother runs this now.
The reduced time to kill tends to make group fights favor numbers more heavily now, as bad reaction time/calls can be compensated for by the extra heals/ultimates that having more numbers enables. By itself, this would be manageable - players are harder to kill, and it's harder to kill a larger group, but you can still accomplish it. However, when you combine this with how many people seem to be in kag's hope (whether people have just caught on that in 2.1's reduced TTK it's incredibly powerful to be able to rez quickly, or whether people are just running the set because it's the best crafted magicka dps set), the capacity to take on larger numbers begins to dwindle. It almost seems exponentially related to numbers - as soon as you reach a sweet spot of outnumbering the other side, it becomes very easy to have players peel off for literally 1 second and rez. Prior to 2.1, after wiping a group you needed to pay attention to anyone still left alive because if they weren't monitored they could rez up the entire group. In 2.1, I almost want to say preventing rezzes feels like it doesn't matter because it's a near impossible task when you're outnumbered and rezzes can literally be completed in 1 second. How many people can you be in melee range for and bashing at once while still doing sufficient dmg/heals to fight those that were still alive? Against larger numbers now, I find myself literally wondering, "do we camp the two groups that we just wiped so they don't get rezzed by the randoms running around with kag's hope, or do we push the objective and finish taking the keep/whatever" - realizing that doing so we will mean we have near-unbeatable numbers pouring in behind us in 10 seconds when everyone is rezzed up.
I know our group is still testing strategies and trying to figure out a way to combat the meta, and it certainly doesn't help that the majority of my faction seems to still be in IC on pop-locked campaigns when EP (and sometimes AD) are in regular Cyrodiil in almost full numbers, but I'd suggest to @ZOS_BrianWheeler to at least keep an eye on it in the event that this snowballs further and we're left with pseudo-forward camps running around in a crafted set. I'd certainly like to see what the fights are like with close to even numbers (maybe this is no longer a problem at that point?), but as things stand right now, I'd love for better tools to combat significantly larger numbers since prox det isn't sufficient for that purpose (and yes, I know everyone asks for this, and I'm not providing any suggestions, but I'd still like for more tools to be available). Our group discussed the addition of a rez sickness where your stats are temporarily diminished upon being rezzed, and that may end up being an interesting change that helps balance the scale and reward skilled play over numbers.
Again, I'd like to see what the fights look like when we have more even numbers across the board and everyone is out of IC - as kag's hope may not even matter at that point, but as it stands now, after regularly fighting 2-3 times our number in Trueflame NA PC (and seeing similar fights on Azura's), it's quickly getting old to see the name of someone you've already killed 5 times in a single engagement show up on your death recap
It's starting to feel like death has little penalty again.
For full disclosure, I was never a fan of forward camps as I felt they enabled players to pvp sloppily and have almost zero consequences since they could just rez up 15 feet from the fight and join the battle seconds after dying. But, this isn't a debate about the merits of forward camps. ZOS removed them for a reason, and while all I can do is guess, I'd say it's an educated guess that they were removed because forward camps tended to favor players with larger numbers and whoever was in a better position to have people peel off from the fight to make sure a fresh forward camp was put down. Death had little penalty.
With 2.1, sets were tweaked, and I think players are starting to finalize what the 2.1 meta will look like. In my experience so far, 2.1 is feeling very, very similar to the 1.1-1.4 meta when forward camps allowed the entire group that you wiped to respawn and bomb your backline 5 seconds later. The groups I've run with in pvp have had a quick rezzer that wore the set, but since 2.1 makes kag's hope the absolute best crafted set for spell damage, it seems like everyone and their mother runs this now.
The reduced time to kill tends to make group fights favor numbers more heavily now, as bad reaction time/calls can be compensated for by the extra heals/ultimates that having more numbers enables. By itself, this would be manageable - players are harder to kill, and it's harder to kill a larger group, but you can still accomplish it. However, when you combine this with how many people seem to be in kag's hope (whether people have just caught on that in 2.1's reduced TTK it's incredibly powerful to be able to rez quickly, or whether people are just running the set because it's the best crafted magicka dps set), the capacity to take on larger numbers begins to dwindle. It almost seems exponentially related to numbers - as soon as you reach a sweet spot of outnumbering the other side, it becomes very easy to have players peel off for literally 1 second and rez. Prior to 2.1, after wiping a group you needed to pay attention to anyone still left alive because if they weren't monitored they could rez up the entire group. In 2.1, I almost want to say preventing rezzes feels like it doesn't matter because it's a near impossible task when you're outnumbered and rezzes can literally be completed in 1 second. How many people can you be in melee range for and bashing at once while still doing sufficient dmg/heals to fight those that were still alive? Against larger numbers now, I find myself literally wondering, "do we camp the two groups that we just wiped so they don't get rezzed by the randoms running around with kag's hope, or do we push the objective and finish taking the keep/whatever" - realizing that doing so we will mean we have near-unbeatable numbers pouring in behind us in 10 seconds when everyone is rezzed up.
I know our group is still testing strategies and trying to figure out a way to combat the meta, and it certainly doesn't help that the majority of my faction seems to still be in IC on pop-locked campaigns when EP (and sometimes AD) are in regular Cyrodiil in almost full numbers, but I'd suggest to @ZOS_BrianWheeler to at least keep an eye on it in the event that this snowballs further and we're left with pseudo-forward camps running around in a crafted set. I'd certainly like to see what the fights are like with close to even numbers (maybe this is no longer a problem at that point?), but as things stand right now, I'd love for better tools to combat significantly larger numbers since prox det isn't sufficient for that purpose (and yes, I know everyone asks for this, and I'm not providing any suggestions, but I'd still like for more tools to be available). Our group discussed the addition of a rez sickness where your stats are temporarily diminished upon being rezzed, and that may end up being an interesting change that helps balance the scale and reward skilled play over numbers.
Again, I'd like to see what the fights look like when we have more even numbers across the board and everyone is out of IC - as kag's hope may not even matter at that point, but as it stands now, after regularly fighting 2-3 times our number in Trueflame NA PC (and seeing similar fights on Azura's), it's quickly getting old to see the name of someone you've already killed 5 times in a single engagement show up on your death recap
It's starting to feel like death has little penalty again.
I don't believe the problem lies in resurrecting, but how small 12 to 16 player groups approach combat strategy. The current meta with small groups is what I like to call the "AoE Wrecking Ball" strategy. They basically form up on the crown and then go from point A to point B in a ball spamming AoE's; anyone who happens to be in the way of this ball, gets wrecked. Now I do not consider this a "zerg ball", but it does have a few fallacies like the classic "zerg ball".
The primary fallacy deals with resurrecting, because once they pass by its like the eye of a hurricane; you are perfectly safe to go out into the open and resurrect your allies. I have done this numerous times, even times when the group is reforming at point B and turning around for another sweep. No one will even try to stop me from resurrecting, every so often a light attack comes my way, but I figured that was someone trying to build ultimate for their next pass. Is this a problem with resurrecting or a problem with the current small group meta?
For full disclosure, I was never a fan of forward camps as I felt they enabled players to pvp sloppily and have almost zero consequences since they could just rez up 15 feet from the fight and join the battle seconds after dying. But, this isn't a debate about the merits of forward camps. ZOS removed them for a reason, and while all I can do is guess, I'd say it's an educated guess that they were removed because forward camps tended to favor players with larger numbers and whoever was in a better position to have people peel off from the fight to make sure a fresh forward camp was put down. Death had little penalty.
With 2.1, sets were tweaked, and I think players are starting to finalize what the 2.1 meta will look like. In my experience so far, 2.1 is feeling very, very similar to the 1.1-1.4 meta when forward camps allowed the entire group that you wiped to respawn and bomb your backline 5 seconds later. The groups I've run with in pvp have had a quick rezzer that wore the set, but since 2.1 makes kag's hope the absolute best crafted set for spell damage, it seems like everyone and their mother runs this now.
The reduced time to kill tends to make group fights favor numbers more heavily now, as bad reaction time/calls can be compensated for by the extra heals/ultimates that having more numbers enables. By itself, this would be manageable - players are harder to kill, and it's harder to kill a larger group, but you can still accomplish it. However, when you combine this with how many people seem to be in kag's hope (whether people have just caught on that in 2.1's reduced TTK it's incredibly powerful to be able to rez quickly, or whether people are just running the set because it's the best crafted magicka dps set), the capacity to take on larger numbers begins to dwindle. It almost seems exponentially related to numbers - as soon as you reach a sweet spot of outnumbering the other side, it becomes very easy to have players peel off for literally 1 second and rez. Prior to 2.1, after wiping a group you needed to pay attention to anyone still left alive because if they weren't monitored they could rez up the entire group. In 2.1, I almost want to say preventing rezzes feels like it doesn't matter because it's a near impossible task when you're outnumbered and rezzes can literally be completed in 1 second. How many people can you be in melee range for and bashing at once while still doing sufficient dmg/heals to fight those that were still alive? Against larger numbers now, I find myself literally wondering, "do we camp the two groups that we just wiped so they don't get rezzed by the randoms running around with kag's hope, or do we push the objective and finish taking the keep/whatever" - realizing that doing so we will mean we have near-unbeatable numbers pouring in behind us in 10 seconds when everyone is rezzed up.
I know our group is still testing strategies and trying to figure out a way to combat the meta, and it certainly doesn't help that the majority of my faction seems to still be in IC on pop-locked campaigns when EP (and sometimes AD) are in regular Cyrodiil in almost full numbers, but I'd suggest to @ZOS_BrianWheeler to at least keep an eye on it in the event that this snowballs further and we're left with pseudo-forward camps running around in a crafted set. I'd certainly like to see what the fights are like with close to even numbers (maybe this is no longer a problem at that point?), but as things stand right now, I'd love for better tools to combat significantly larger numbers since prox det isn't sufficient for that purpose (and yes, I know everyone asks for this, and I'm not providing any suggestions, but I'd still like for more tools to be available). Our group discussed the addition of a rez sickness where your stats are temporarily diminished upon being rezzed, and that may end up being an interesting change that helps balance the scale and reward skilled play over numbers.
Again, I'd like to see what the fights look like when we have more even numbers across the board and everyone is out of IC - as kag's hope may not even matter at that point, but as it stands now, after regularly fighting 2-3 times our number in Trueflame NA PC (and seeing similar fights on Azura's), it's quickly getting old to see the name of someone you've already killed 5 times in a single engagement show up on your death recap
It's starting to feel like death has little penalty again.
I don't believe the problem lies in resurrecting, but how small 12 to 16 player groups approach combat strategy. The current meta with small groups is what I like to call the "AoE Wrecking Ball" strategy. They basically form up on the crown and then go from point A to point B in a ball spamming AoE's; anyone who happens to be in the way of this ball, gets wrecked. Now I do not consider this a "zerg ball", but it does have a few fallacies like the classic "zerg ball".
The primary fallacy deals with resurrecting, because once they pass by its like the eye of a hurricane; you are perfectly safe to go out into the open and resurrect your allies. I have done this numerous times, even times when the group is reforming at point B and turning around for another sweep. No one will even try to stop me from resurrecting, every so often a light attack comes my way, but I figured that was someone trying to build ultimate for their next pass. Is this a problem with resurrecting or a problem with the current small group meta?
They're letting you ress because Zergballs farm AP and more players to kill = More AP. That's a completely different issue altogether.
I hate to be that person who brings up DAOC, but i'm going to be that person.
It had a rez penalty... didn't last long..like a minute if I remember... The biggy though was the fact that game was heavily buff based..and when you died you lost all your buffs..So when ya rezzed not only did ya get the penalty but you also had to be rebuffed so you could actually do something in combat worth anything.
ML8 Perfecter - Cure Rez sickness... http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/master-levels-abilities#Perfecter just sayin :-)
Also.. people complain about a templar being able to rez quickly.. boy would they have hated Egg of youth!
For full disclosure, I was never a fan of forward camps as I felt they enabled players to pvp sloppily and have almost zero consequences since they could just rez up 15 feet from the fight and join the battle seconds after dying. But, this isn't a debate about the merits of forward camps. ZOS removed them for a reason, and while all I can do is guess, I'd say it's an educated guess that they were removed because forward camps tended to favor players with larger numbers and whoever was in a better position to have people peel off from the fight to make sure a fresh forward camp was put down. Death had little penalty.
With 2.1, sets were tweaked, and I think players are starting to finalize what the 2.1 meta will look like. In my experience so far, 2.1 is feeling very, very similar to the 1.1-1.4 meta when forward camps allowed the entire group that you wiped to respawn and bomb your backline 5 seconds later. The groups I've run with in pvp have had a quick rezzer that wore the set, but since 2.1 makes kag's hope the absolute best crafted set for spell damage, it seems like everyone and their mother runs this now.
The reduced time to kill tends to make group fights favor numbers more heavily now, as bad reaction time/calls can be compensated for by the extra heals/ultimates that having more numbers enables. By itself, this would be manageable - players are harder to kill, and it's harder to kill a larger group, but you can still accomplish it. However, when you combine this with how many people seem to be in kag's hope (whether people have just caught on that in 2.1's reduced TTK it's incredibly powerful to be able to rez quickly, or whether people are just running the set because it's the best crafted magicka dps set), the capacity to take on larger numbers begins to dwindle. It almost seems exponentially related to numbers - as soon as you reach a sweet spot of outnumbering the other side, it becomes very easy to have players peel off for literally 1 second and rez. Prior to 2.1, after wiping a group you needed to pay attention to anyone still left alive because if they weren't monitored they could rez up the entire group. In 2.1, I almost want to say preventing rezzes feels like it doesn't matter because it's a near impossible task when you're outnumbered and rezzes can literally be completed in 1 second. How many people can you be in melee range for and bashing at once while still doing sufficient dmg/heals to fight those that were still alive? Against larger numbers now, I find myself literally wondering, "do we camp the two groups that we just wiped so they don't get rezzed by the randoms running around with kag's hope, or do we push the objective and finish taking the keep/whatever" - realizing that doing so we will mean we have near-unbeatable numbers pouring in behind us in 10 seconds when everyone is rezzed up.
I know our group is still testing strategies and trying to figure out a way to combat the meta, and it certainly doesn't help that the majority of my faction seems to still be in IC on pop-locked campaigns when EP (and sometimes AD) are in regular Cyrodiil in almost full numbers, but I'd suggest to @ZOS_BrianWheeler to at least keep an eye on it in the event that this snowballs further and we're left with pseudo-forward camps running around in a crafted set. I'd certainly like to see what the fights are like with close to even numbers (maybe this is no longer a problem at that point?), but as things stand right now, I'd love for better tools to combat significantly larger numbers since prox det isn't sufficient for that purpose (and yes, I know everyone asks for this, and I'm not providing any suggestions, but I'd still like for more tools to be available). Our group discussed the addition of a rez sickness where your stats are temporarily diminished upon being rezzed, and that may end up being an interesting change that helps balance the scale and reward skilled play over numbers.
Again, I'd like to see what the fights look like when we have more even numbers across the board and everyone is out of IC - as kag's hope may not even matter at that point, but as it stands now, after regularly fighting 2-3 times our number in Trueflame NA PC (and seeing similar fights on Azura's), it's quickly getting old to see the name of someone you've already killed 5 times in a single engagement show up on your death recap
It's starting to feel like death has little penalty again.
I don't believe the problem lies in resurrecting, but how small 12 to 16 player groups approach combat strategy. The current meta with small groups is what I like to call the "AoE Wrecking Ball" strategy. They basically form up on the crown and then go from point A to point B in a ball spamming AoE's; anyone who happens to be in the way of this ball, gets wrecked. Now I do not consider this a "zerg ball", but it does have a few fallacies like the classic "zerg ball".
The primary fallacy deals with resurrecting, because once they pass by its like the eye of a hurricane; you are perfectly safe to go out into the open and resurrect your allies. I have done this numerous times, even times when the group is reforming at point B and turning around for another sweep. No one will even try to stop me from resurrecting, every so often a light attack comes my way, but I figured that was someone trying to build ultimate for their next pass. Is this a problem with resurrecting or a problem with the current small group meta?
To clarify yonk's post, my concern comes from not just one night, but a few weeks. It's starting to seem like a trend, which indicates it's becoming the meta. Perhaps the thread title is misleading, but I feel like the OP frames the problem as rezzing in general inside cyrodiil. I'd prefer for kags to remain unnerfed (and other sets buffed so we have more build variety), and for other solutions to be implemented. A few have already been tossed out as ideas.
The problem with kags is that it seems to strongly favor higher numbers when paired with everything else I keep repeating myself on, so I fail to see how it in any way correlates to a 'come from behind'. Given the lag among the general pvp population to pick up on the current meta, if rezzing is already starting to seem like a problem, I'd be worried that it will only get worse as more people migrate towards it. So, no, I'm not asking for nerfs to anything, just asking that ZOS monitors now rather than 3 months from now should the time come when action does need to be taken.
TF is kind of dumb at the moment because of the population imbalance in regular cyrodiil, and heavily outnumbered fights are what I've based my feedback on. Fights with less overwhelming numbers aren't as ridiculous, so maybe the solution lies in addressing the incentive to stack 2-3+ raid groups in one spot (of which every alliance is guilty of). Either way, ZOS should be paying attention to it. For those of you who fail at reading comprehension, that does not mean ZOS must nerf kags.
#nerfsorcsinstead
MY POST WAS PERFECTLY CLEAR YOU JERK
kagits... always so moody. This is why I'm a dog person
For full disclosure, I was never a fan of forward camps as I felt they enabled players to pvp sloppily and have almost zero consequences since they could just rez up 15 feet from the fight and join the battle seconds after dying. But, this isn't a debate about the merits of forward camps. ZOS removed them for a reason, and while all I can do is guess, I'd say it's an educated guess that they were removed because forward camps tended to favor players with larger numbers and whoever was in a better position to have people peel off from the fight to make sure a fresh forward camp was put down. Death had little penalty.
With 2.1, sets were tweaked, and I think players are starting to finalize what the 2.1 meta will look like. In my experience so far, 2.1 is feeling very, very similar to the 1.1-1.4 meta when forward camps allowed the entire group that you wiped to respawn and bomb your backline 5 seconds later. The groups I've run with in pvp have had a quick rezzer that wore the set, but since 2.1 makes kag's hope the absolute best crafted set for spell damage, it seems like everyone and their mother runs this now.
The reduced time to kill tends to make group fights favor numbers more heavily now, as bad reaction time/calls can be compensated for by the extra heals/ultimates that having more numbers enables. By itself, this would be manageable - players are harder to kill, and it's harder to kill a larger group, but you can still accomplish it. However, when you combine this with how many people seem to be in kag's hope (whether people have just caught on that in 2.1's reduced TTK it's incredibly powerful to be able to rez quickly, or whether people are just running the set because it's the best crafted magicka dps set), the capacity to take on larger numbers begins to dwindle. It almost seems exponentially related to numbers - as soon as you reach a sweet spot of outnumbering the other side, it becomes very easy to have players peel off for literally 1 second and rez. Prior to 2.1, after wiping a group you needed to pay attention to anyone still left alive because if they weren't monitored they could rez up the entire group. In 2.1, I almost want to say preventing rezzes feels like it doesn't matter because it's a near impossible task when you're outnumbered and rezzes can literally be completed in 1 second. How many people can you be in melee range for and bashing at once while still doing sufficient dmg/heals to fight those that were still alive? Against larger numbers now, I find myself literally wondering, "do we camp the two groups that we just wiped so they don't get rezzed by the randoms running around with kag's hope, or do we push the objective and finish taking the keep/whatever" - realizing that doing so we will mean we have near-unbeatable numbers pouring in behind us in 10 seconds when everyone is rezzed up.
I know our group is still testing strategies and trying to figure out a way to combat the meta, and it certainly doesn't help that the majority of my faction seems to still be in IC on pop-locked campaigns when EP (and sometimes AD) are in regular Cyrodiil in almost full numbers, but I'd suggest to @ZOS_BrianWheeler to at least keep an eye on it in the event that this snowballs further and we're left with pseudo-forward camps running around in a crafted set. I'd certainly like to see what the fights are like with close to even numbers (maybe this is no longer a problem at that point?), but as things stand right now, I'd love for better tools to combat significantly larger numbers since prox det isn't sufficient for that purpose (and yes, I know everyone asks for this, and I'm not providing any suggestions, but I'd still like for more tools to be available). Our group discussed the addition of a rez sickness where your stats are temporarily diminished upon being rezzed, and that may end up being an interesting change that helps balance the scale and reward skilled play over numbers.
Again, I'd like to see what the fights look like when we have more even numbers across the board and everyone is out of IC - as kag's hope may not even matter at that point, but as it stands now, after regularly fighting 2-3 times our number in Trueflame NA PC (and seeing similar fights on Azura's), it's quickly getting old to see the name of someone you've already killed 5 times in a single engagement show up on your death recap
It's starting to feel like death has little penalty again.
I don't believe the problem lies in resurrecting, but how small 12 to 16 player groups approach combat strategy. The current meta with small groups is what I like to call the "AoE Wrecking Ball" strategy. They basically form up on the crown and then go from point A to point B in a ball spamming AoE's; anyone who happens to be in the way of this ball, gets wrecked. Now I do not consider this a "zerg ball", but it does have a few fallacies like the classic "zerg ball".
The primary fallacy deals with resurrecting, because once they pass by its like the eye of a hurricane; you are perfectly safe to go out into the open and resurrect your allies. I have done this numerous times, even times when the group is reforming at point B and turning around for another sweep. No one will even try to stop me from resurrecting, every so often a light attack comes my way, but I figured that was someone trying to build ultimate for their next pass. Is this a problem with resurrecting or a problem with the current small group meta?
They're letting you ress because Zergballs farm AP and more players to kill = More AP. That's a completely different issue altogether.
I do not believe they are letting players resurrect to farm AP. The reason I say this is because I have fought the OP's group many times on Trueflame NA. I have also fought the enemies the OP has faced and the key is to not be in a ball, but to spread out and camp the dead bodies. Even if it means 1 player per 2 dead bodies, because a single bash interrupts a player trying to resurrect and a single call for help in TS prevents whole groups from being revived.
Most of the time, unless its a HUGE zerg, that the group I run with loses is due to us staying together to well that we forget the 8 players we just killed behind us who got resurrected. When we camp the bodies, they usually release and we can do our victory shouts in TS.
On the notion of zergs, some times, your going to have a day like I had yesterday where your group of 12 or 16 or 20 just cannot measure up to the 50+ AD outside Chalman Keep. What you do is take down as many of the players as possible and play the best you can play until more players for your faction logon. Cyrodiil was designed for large scale combat, so it doesn't surprise me to see larger groups winning against smaller groups.
Calling for reinforcements is not a weakness; its a strategy in and of itself.