collectables and the upcomming changes

Rosveen · September 2015

ForfiniteStories wrote: »

Just make dyes available via other means and we're good. I could care less about achievements.

No, we aren't good. We aren't good at all.

Artemiisia · September 2015

there are lots of people that are achievement hunters @ForfiniteStories and with this change, they are making what they like to do nearly impossible, and that spoils their kinda fun, which in my opinion is sad that ZoS makes this kinda choice, when this was already truly hard to get in the first place.

I have played this game and lots of my friends since early release and never complained how hard it was to obtain these, even killing the same trash mob 3000 times and not getting it, weren't a problem, it was something to do, like fishing.

Now with this, you will rely on being the luckiest person in the world to get these, like being strike by lightning 10 times on the same day, that will never happen

Maotti · September 2015

The fact that this is getting ignored completely by ZoS says it all.

Divinius · September 2015

Just got one of the more rare collectibles that I'm still missing on my main character (the one I was trying to get the achievements on), while on an alt. And of course, I now can't transfer it to the character that needs it. So frustrated right now I could scream.

This was a totally unnecessary change that accomplished nothing other than ticking off hundreds of players.

ZOS, revert this. Put it back to the way it was. If the problem was that people didn't understand the old system, then just add some simple info to the items tool-tips. "USE this item to add it to your achievements!" would have solved the whole problem. But instead, you make an unnecessary change that annoys more people than it helps.

BAD ZOS. BAD. NO. *smacks developers on nose with rolled up newspaper*

Maotti · September 2015

I will never stop the fight for the freedom of the collectibles!

BlackEar · September 2015

As someone who finished them, I cannot begin to feel your pain.

If they wanted it to be character bound to make it a bigger feat they should have made locations for the mobs to grind.
Making it impossible to get is simply stuppid.

AlnilamE · September 2015

Altairien wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

We’d like to provide a little insight and clarification on the upcoming changes to collectibles.

Currently, collectible trophies work differently for those obtained via fishing versus those obtained via monster kills. Fishing trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon item pick-up, whereas monster-kill trophy collectibles grant the associated achievement upon use. This difference was resulting in a high volume of bug reports and feedback in which players thought the collectible trophies were broken. That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform. That’s where the upcoming changes come in.

So what do those changes consist of? Here’s a short list:
All collectible trophies will now grant the associated achievement when the item is first looted.

Monster trophies will always drop off appropriate level monsters for your character. A game-wide audit was done to make sure that no matter what level you are, there is always a place you can go to work on collecting the trophy you are looking for.

Collectible trophies can no longer be banked and traded to another character.

We hope that helps clarify the changes. Please let us know if you have any questions!

If you had also changed the achievements to account-wide achievements and then restricted the collectibles as you have, then I'd be fine with this. But you didn't so I call foul.

You should've simply changed monster trophy behavior to emulate the existing behavior of fishing trophies. In case you missed it, that's even how the patch note reads!

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Monster trophies now work more like fishing trophies: when you loot one, you automatically receive achievement credit, rather than having to use it as a separate action.

And the patch notes under Fishing... Absolutely nothing about any changes to that system at all. Certainly nothing about a major change like this.

So you converted the entire system to completely new rules. Now I'm stuck with a multitude of fishing trophies on characters that were holding them for a character I have yet to create. It was to be the central part of that character's backstory and that's now shot down in ZOS flames.

There is absolutely no pro-player or even neutral-player reason to have done this. None! Extremely bad move!

P.S. I just checked... My main character has a Fleshy Symbiont trophy that I got literally the day before the patch. I hadn't "used" it yet since my habit is to double check the achievement to see if I already had it. So now it is sitting in my inventory, unusable, and the achievement hasn't updated. You're just adding insult to injury here.

Have you tried vendor in and then buying it back? Just a thought.

UrQuan · September 2015

Everyone make sure to keep sending /bug and /feedback reports in-game about this.

Rosveen · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Everyone make sure to keep sending /bug and /feedback reports in-game about this.

I sent one, I'm hesitant to spam them. Then again, this change is so mind-bogglingly stupid maybe some spam is deserved...

UrQuan · September 2015

Rosveen wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Everyone make sure to keep sending /bug and /feedback reports in-game about this.

I sent one, I'm hesitant to spam them. Then again, this change is so mind-bogglingly stupid maybe some spam is deserved...

Their rationale for the change is that they were getting a lot of CS inquiries about the collectibles. The only way to make them realize how dumb this change was is to make them realize that the change has resulted in more CS inquiries, not less.

MissBizz · September 2015

Nothing's worse than running a dungeon with someone.. where there's only a handful of flesh atronach's.. and your buddy gets the Fleshy Symbiont collectible that you've been chasing...

wait for it...

And he doesn't even want it on that character.

Let there be bankable collectibles and fish!

UrQuan · September 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

Nothing's worse than running a dungeon with someone.. where there's only a handful of flesh atronach's.. and your buddy gets the Fleshy Symbiont collectible that you've been chasing...

wait for it...

And he doesn't even want it on that character.

Let there be bankable collectibles and fish!

Pissed me right off! I've been wanting that collectible on my other character!

Altairien · September 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Have you tried vendor in and then buying it back? Just a thought.

Yep. Tried that first thing and it didn't work. I also haven't gotten another since. Still have it in my Inventory... Waiting...

UrQuan · September 2015

So I'm at least getting responses from CS about this at the moment, and they're responses that at least show that they have some understanding of the issue. This is what I got most recently (this is the most recent response out of 5 responses on one CS ticket, so some stuff has already been discussed in this thread):

ESO Customer Support wrote:

Greetings,
All items should be able to be found in various locations for all levels. We can definitely take a look at the monster trophies to see if they are everywhere, however, the last check did show they were available.

For the non-bankable aspect, the trophies were mentioned here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2200380/#Comment_2200380

"Monster trophies now work more like fishing trophies: when you loot one, you automatically receive achievement credit, rather than having to use it as a separate action."

Of course, in replying to this I pointed out that the mention in the patch notes doesn't actually address the change of monster trophies to be non-bankable, as it says that they now work more like fishing trophies and fishing trophies were always bankable before. As the CS rep has said that they can take a look to see if they are everywhere, I've asked for a list of where they can all be found for vet level characters of all alliances. In a previous reply to them I also specifically asked about nix hounds for vet EP characters. If I get any kind of reply showing locations, I'll be sure to post it here.

GTech_1 · September 2015

Plain and simple: This change is *not* working as intended, because it violates what is present in the patch notes.
It is a bug.

Fix it Zenimax.

tactica · September 2015

Trophies / Collectibles... hmmm.

Are they interesting? Well... kinda... when I got the first two or three I looked at them breifly, but frankly, a spinning orb of light, or an apirition or summoned novetly bird and you are kinda done with all that. Some are even humorous / entertaining making a friend vomit was fun once... then, all that crap gets old fast! Then you realize - wait, its taking up precious inventory space? You ask yourself why you are holding onto any of it probably land where I did quickly...

I just delete all collectibles / trophies when earned. I don't want them in my inventory.

However, they are a waste:
1. They take up inventory space - as long as they do that, I'll always delete them. I NEVER want novelty items taking up valuable needed inventory space. I got no room for that crap. It gets dumped immediately as long as it costs me ANY resource space.
2. Even if the above was fixed, not all of them can even be mapped to use from a hot key bind on PS4
3. They appear in different sections of my inventory menu, so finding them quickly either for mapping or when wanting to use them on the fly - is a pain in the arse.
4. There's a real missed opportunity here with Trophy / Collectibles... at the end of the day, nobody cares that you have crap meat on the ground, or a glowing whatever, a pigeon flying, whatever... it's all novety crap. At least a new skin for your toon MIGHT look cool.

However, if ZoS wanted to make some ACTUAL trophy / collectibles worth obtaining, here's some suggestions:
1. don't make them take up inventory slots
2. One (or more) could be toggled on at a time
3. Make them have a purpose with a value to the player other than vanity...

Ideas (not necessarily suggestions) include:

Another a gizmo / widget / genie... "Call it a Higherling's Utility Knife... Higherling's Significant Other... Higherlings Dark secret... Higherling's side action... (whatever)... that works as a level 3 Hireling which when earned, adds to my lot received daily for one of the crafting jobs... and functions just like the Level 3 version I unlock with skills, but ONLY after I have the requisite 3 hireling unlocked which the assistant is for... and only delivers a single bonus item more than what the level 3 already delivers at each interval (so not same quantity but same quality as lv3 higherling)... could be a seperate quest for each of the 'assistants'.

Grizzly Trophies - a appropriately alarming vanity add on for some part of the toon, but instead of ONLY being vanity, it also adds a fear effect to mobs

Honored Dead - toon wears a band on arm / leg or something with blood stain after unlocking it from the quest. Gains an x% buff to any healing received.

Various Pets - that actually do stuff - feast on dead, to give you a buff like a magicka familiar... or a fighting or tanking familiar... or a healing familiar of sorts... nowhere near as powerful as what the Sorc gets and wouldn't want to compete with things like Engine Guardian set... but something enough to know your trophy was doing something.

Jewelry with a benefit - that doesn't take up a slot, benefit is minor in comparison to actual worn jewelry

Cape with some kind of perk / bonus

halo / horns option togglable - with small perks associated

Divinius · September 2015

tactica wrote: »

Trophies / Collectibles... hmmm.

Are they interesting? Well... kinda... when I got the first two or three I looked at them breifly, but frankly, a spinning orb of light, or an apirition or summoned novetly bird and you are kinda done with all that. Some are even humorous / entertaining making a friend vomit was fun once... then, all that crap gets old fast! Then you realize - wait, its taking up precious inventory space?
.
.
.

Huge post that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic. You are confusing the trophies and collectibles that are acquired as dungeon rewards (green text) with the achievement based "trophy" items (blue text, and previously consumable, which gave you the achievement) that are randomly dropped from normal mobs throughout the game. I can't really blame you, since the latter are so rare that you may have never actually seen one. Those are the ones that this topic is discussing.

Fruitmass · September 2015

@tactica . There are different kinds of trophies chief. The ones your talking about are the trophies you get from finishing certain quests. Those kinds of trophies are for personal enjoyment so whether their worth it or not is solely a personal matter.

The trophies that people are getting upset over and the topic of this thread are the ones that are gained by fishing and as drops from monsters as they are linked to achievements and dye colors.

Largely the issue lies with monster trophies as those are restricted to specific creatures and are subject to the five levels rule (creatures more than five levels lower than yourself will not yield experience or loot drops). This is causing an issue as those trophies are RNG based and more often than not this means they have incredibly low drop rates (for some we're talking one drop out of two thousand kills or more low). There's also the issue that not all creature types are found through out the world. Some are only found in specific regions of the map. It's been an issue for the quite a while that late game farming spots for some creatures are very poor, some to the point of being non existent in any practical sense.

For the fist several months it was a known issue that monster trophies and fishing trophies were bugged. They were not dropping correctly, nor were they registering towards their achievements as they should have. Compared to other problems at the time it was not considered a priority to fix them. It took until relatively recently for them to start working as they should and by then many players had already reach maxed level on the characters that they would consider to be their intended main and thus out leveled their opportunity to gather those trophies and complete the associated achievements on that character as they would have liked in the course of normal gameplay.

The inconsistency with drop rates and the lack of good late game farm spots was alleviated somewhat with the ability to bank any trophies that were found while playing with Alts. It was also the only recourse many players had to fill out the collections on their mains because of the above mentioned issues. Sadly this is no longer possible on Pc with the release of Imperial City patch and was never possible on Console.

The only options available to players at this point are to either:

A. Grit their teeth and bare it. Spending hours/days/weeks maybe even months trying to gather each trophy. Some of which, depending on faction, may only be findable late game inside a four man instanced zone.

B. Start a new character with the express intention of being used only for gathering the monster trophies. However this solution is still not something that can be considered optimal as there is always the ever present risk of over leveling the window of opportunity thanks to RNG and poor drop rates.

Nor is either option fair to the players. The issues with collectables were entirely on ZOS' end. Players have no control over how they function, what creatures drop them, how abundant those creatures are and where they're found or how frequently collectables drop. To burden players with further restriction on an already tedious system or force them to abandon their progress and start all over again for a situation they created is simply just not feasible (as well as a whole lot of other things I can't say because that would probably just get me in trouble) and can in no way be considered a "fix".

tactica · September 2015

Well, that's what I get for weighing in and being late to the party. My point still remains, but perhaps I should take my ball and go elsewhere. This field is full and I apologize for the intrusion.

Carry on, hope you all get the fix you seek from a sympathetic ear at ZoS. Seems long overdue and a problem that shouldn't be this long in the tooth.

Cheers,

Fruitmass · September 2015

tactica wrote: »

Well, that's what I get for weighing in and being late to the party. My point still remains, but perhaps I should take my ball and go elsewhere. This field is full and I apologize for the intrusion.

Carry on, hope you all get the fix you seek from a sympathetic ear at ZoS. Seems long overdue and a problem that shouldn't be this long in the tooth.

Cheers,

Nah chief it's cool. You have a point about quest trophies it's just not the specific trophy that's got people so upset in this thread.

Not a lot of people realize there are several types of trophies and collectables and the game doesn't do a very good job of explaining the difference between them, what they do and how they can be obtained.

Clearing up the misunderstanding was the the official reasoning given behind making the recent change. Unfortunately that change was at best short sighted and did nothing to clear up the confusion. Even the patch notes are sparse regarding the change. It's little more than one line that mentioning that the monster trophies work more like fishing trophies now. Which is a misleading and incomplete explanation as it doesn't give any real details or specifics.

All in all the change didn't do diddly in regards to it's specified intention and has only served to complicate matters. So people are understandably PO'd. Needless to say, the lack of acknowledgement about the situation from ZOS is not making things any better either.

Malmai · September 2015

Artemiisia wrote: »

the trophies that drop as rare items from creatures

This game has drops ?

Altairien · September 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

Let there be bankable collectibles and fish!

Unfortunately, I would clarify that by saying "Let there be a return of account-bound/bankable/usable collectibles and fish!" since ZOS might make a conscious decision to take that literally and dismiss the good suggestion just to avoid fixing the issue.

"Have you had any useful feedback regarding the new Collectibles system?"
"Naw, just a pointless suggestion that we allow the unusable Collectible items be placed into the Bank."
"What would be the point of that?" /ignore

Not that they're not ignoring us now. What can I say. ZOS has made me rather cynical with this debacle.

Asia_Skyly · September 2015

ZOS has a long history of disdain towards achievement hunters. It is a shame, really, as achievement hunters are some of the most hardcore players in the game.

Fishing and collectible items should be account bound. Please ZOS, stop torturing your loyal fans and give us back our account bound collectibles!

starkerealm · September 2015

Fruitmass wrote: »

B. Start a new character with the express intention of being used only for gathering the monster trophies. However this solution is still not something that can be considered optimal as there is always the ever present risk of over leveling the window of opportunity thanks to RNG and poor drop rates.

Irronically... or not, the B solution actually seems to be "roll up Covenant," as they can get access to all the critters at vet level. (They used to have issues with vet level Jackals, but those got added to Craglorn.) So, if you want those dyes, you need to be playing in that faction.

For master Angler, the answer seems to be, "roll up Dominion." Because, while any player can technically fish any of them (and level doesn't matter), the only Ocean spots to fish in Cyrodiil (for 3 required fish) are down by the Gate of Mnem. So, you can do that as a Pact or Covenant player... but then, you're either in a position where every Dominion player needs to slip past you in order to join, or if you're discovered and killed, you need to hike all the way back from home territory, wherever that may be.

Yeah, fun. $:\$

Fruitmass · September 2015

starkerealm wrote: »

Fruitmass wrote: »

B. Start a new character with the express intention of being used only for gathering the monster trophies. However this solution is still not something that can be considered optimal as there is always the ever present risk of over leveling the window of opportunity thanks to RNG and poor drop rates.

Irronically... or not, the B solution actually seems to be "roll up Covenant," as they can get access to all the critters at vet level. (They used to have issues with vet level Jackals, but those got added to Craglorn.) So, if you want those dyes, you need to be playing in that faction.

For master Angler, the answer seems to be, "roll up Dominion." Because, while any player can technically fish any of them (and level doesn't matter), the only Ocean spots to fish in Cyrodiil (for 3 required fish) are down by the Gate of Mnem. So, you can do that as a Pact or Covenant player... but then, you're either in a position where every Dominion player needs to slip past you in order to join, or if you're discovered and killed, you need to hike all the way back from home territory, wherever that may be.

Yeah, fun. $:\$

Lol. Yar very true, very true. EP really does get the short end for both of those achievements. Which is a shame because their my favorite of the three in terms of quests and map zones.

Divinius · September 2015

Someone should bring this up at the live-stream today. If I wasn't stuck at work, I would.

UrQuan · September 2015

Divinius wrote: »

Someone should bring this up at the live-stream today. If I wasn't stuck at work, I would.

I was hoping to, but it looks like I won't be able to from work...

Divinius · September 2015

I don't know if they pay any attention to the questions posts in the official thread, but I decided to try mentioning it there.

Asia_Skyly · November 2015

Can we please revert this change?! It really has killed my Characteraltitis. It is forcing me to play 1 character, and 1 character only. I do not find that very fun.

Please! Make collectible trophies account bound!

Artemiisia · November 2015

I would love to actually see a newbie, collect all collectibles with this change. I know before the change many had to grind their butt off to get it, without complaining about it, it was fun.

Now its just be luck u get it and ill bet nobody will be able to get this on a fresh char