Mojmir wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

If only ZOS would look at posts like this *sigh*

They do and say "mission accomplished,the pvp update is done"

I feel sad bc part of me thinks this is true. This game currently punishes anyting not streamlined to follow crown in pvp - which is just sad.

Garion wrote: »

Pain In The Axe wrote: »

Smart gameplay and good terrain anaysis still wipes the Zergs Everytime, but yes make them weaker so our smaller group can stomp them even harder than we already do

Certainly not "every time". It's definitely possible - heck we do it every day. However, there are time where sheer numbers and what I like to call 'the cockroach effect' comes into play - where you kill 30 / 40 people and move to the next position to kill the rest and, next think you know, the entire zerg behind you has been ressed (this is particularly aggravated by the advent of this Kagrenac's Hope set).

Fundamentally, zergs in this game are far too strong and have far too many benefits. No one denies that having large numbers should give you an edge. And sure, if people are unable to play in small groups then they should certainly have the option to play in these larger groups should (for whatever reason) they feel that this is fun. They should not be given such ridiculous benefits in stacking up in one spot, however.

Well you´re not exactly playing in a small grp either. 10 to 12 people already take advantage in the dmg reduction system currently in place. The grpsize punished the most by the current system is 4 to 8 players because it becomes undesireable to run pure solo builds but you don´t gain much by running grp oriented builds.

Grps with less than 4 players can still easily outmaneuver larger grps and are pretty much always coordinated solo players/builds. Currently to warrant a grp with dedicated support/CC roles you need atleast 8 players (better 10 imho).

Still always pretty impressive to watch you guys from a distance

Muizer wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

why fight evil with evil. Just nerf all AoE damage to the ground. Or better, replace all of them with single target abilities. Game would be much better.

On the contrary, it would mean people zerg even more, because they will be much harder to target while in a blob while at the same time being able to throw out single target abilities left, right and center.

Hmm, what might work then is to make all AoE ranged with a minimum range attached. That would make it harder for the zerg to create a moving "death zone" and easier to target bunched up players.

You mean.. like Prox Det? Which zergs now use to crash into other zergs?

Its zergs or risk and reward what you guys hate. I think later, because we didnt get so many zerg complaints before. I think its just fun when you're holding tons of stones and you meet enemy zerg, it gives an adrenaline rush.

Sausage wrote: »

Its zergs or risk and reward what you guys hate. I think later, because we didnt get so many zerg complaints before. I think its just fun when you're holding tons of stones and you meet enemy zerg, it gives an adrenaline rush.

This is not a topic about imperial city pvp. I can assure you that much bc i´m playing with the person creating it on a daily basis.


Apart from that: What risk vs reward? There is absolutely no risk associated with ganking players farming stones and once you´ve gotten enough stones to warrant the use of a porterstone porting home and depositing them. The reward is entirely on the ganker side while the risk is entirely on the farmers side for imperial city.

Xsorus wrote: »

Darlgon wrote: »

When were zergs, in any game, NOT OP?

Every "zerg" killer, in 15 plus MMOs with PVE or PVP, has always been worked into a skill that the zerg can use for profit. RIght up to having a stealth go in to check out the area, then having 6 tanks go into the Plane of Fear, to clear the way for the other 20 clothies. Once we figured that out, those mobs became loot profit.

Rift, class dominator, mass betrayal.

Daoc, pretty much instant death if ya stacked up.

Mass Betrayal: Applies Mass Betrayal to up to 10 enemies for 15s or until triggered 5 times. Causes abilities used by each to deal 1710 Death damage to up to 6 nearby enemies. Damaged enemies also lose mana, energy, and power

I just imagined this being casted on a tornado zergblob. Oh dear..

I very rarely rage in game. (mostly when I do it's when my freetime's wasted on stuff like loadscreens).

But yesterday, gods, yesterday, I totally lost it.

Someone explain me what's the fun when a zerg camps under your insta-spawn base in IC.

One factions keeps jumping off the platform and into the frying pan, while the other keeps swarming the platform, bashing everyone instantly who shows on their radar.

There's no stones to be gained, no epic battles.

I wish there were more IC instances which wont allow more than x people /faction into the game. Chances that you run into an enemy commando, but not into zergswarms.

Then I realized why it's beneficial. Even if they get nigh nothing, no tv stones, sometimes they can catch a lone farmer, who carries like 300-600 which then divided, and if they kill 1000 mobs, 1 / s speed, that's also more. All this with low risk.


(Disclaimer: I should have been more wise, than just insisting to finish the quest in that district which is overrun. Should have just escaped via the sewers into another district, watching closely on the map where it shows the battle icons and avoiding those areas. But I was so mad, my mind was totally clouded. All I could see those templars who were all day just like jab-jab-jab-jab-jab-jab, and honestly wanted to fry a few in good ol' dragonknight fire. )

Derra wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

If only ZOS would look at posts like this *sigh*

They do and say "mission accomplished,the pvp update is done"

I feel sad bc part of me thinks this is true. This game currently punishes anyting not streamlined to follow crown in pvp - which is just sad.

Garion wrote: »

Pain In The Axe wrote: »

Smart gameplay and good terrain anaysis still wipes the Zergs Everytime, but yes make them weaker so our smaller group can stomp them even harder than we already do

Certainly not "every time". It's definitely possible - heck we do it every day. However, there are time where sheer numbers and what I like to call 'the cockroach effect' comes into play - where you kill 30 / 40 people and move to the next position to kill the rest and, next think you know, the entire zerg behind you has been ressed (this is particularly aggravated by the advent of this Kagrenac's Hope set).

Fundamentally, zergs in this game are far too strong and have far too many benefits. No one denies that having large numbers should give you an edge. And sure, if people are unable to play in small groups then they should certainly have the option to play in these larger groups should (for whatever reason) they feel that this is fun. They should not be given such ridiculous benefits in stacking up in one spot, however.

Well you´re not exactly playing in a small grp either. 10 to 12 people already take advantage in the dmg reduction system currently in place. The grpsize punished the most by the current system is 4 to 8 players because it becomes undesireable to run pure solo builds but you don´t gain much by running grp oriented builds.

Grps with less than 4 players can still easily outmaneuver larger grps and are pretty much always coordinated solo players/builds. Currently to warrant a grp with dedicated support/CC roles you need atleast 8 players (better 10 imho).

Still always pretty impressive to watch you guys from a distance

We still play small groups too. Especially during the first days we played almost exlusively in 4-5 people groups (frost and hells uploaded some vids of that I think).

The only thing you can do with a small group is kiting enemies away and kill them once its not too many left and you got a spot where you wont get overrun by their reinforcement. However that requires you to have mobile characters. It works to a certain extend with mistform if you have a stambuild that gives you maneuver but you might still get stuck if you have many people charging you. We used to play 8 man groups usually back in the days but with the changes to the game we need around 12 people to be able to fight organised groups and have a chance to win. With less players they will just rez until you eventually die to their 10 sieges. The crucial part is the damage output. Of course we benefit from the aoe caps as well to a certain extend (you probably wont hit way more than 6 of us unless you use steel tornado) but its basically a mechanic that hrlps the bigger group more than the smaller group I'd be glad to see aoe caps removed. We usually dont fight outnumbering our enemy and always actively try to go away from our own faction, so there is almost never a situation where we benefit more of the caps than our enemies.

TL; DR we play small groups too but as a result of how uneffective it is we are pretty much forced to run with 10-12 most of the time.

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So If I can now hit 60 people for 100% damage...at same cost...why would I use anything but AoE ?
Perhaps there is still a few people that remember before caps were raised to 60.
You know...after which they had to cut campaign sizes down to 1/10th the size because raising the players hit caused so much more lag.

Some people have really, really short memories or have serious power craving issues.

Giving players god like abilities does not (has not) fix lag.
It just gives a bigger group of players even more godlike abilities.

We are trying to get away from players with 1 sec TTK....and your solution is to go back to a 1 sec TTK with OP skills.

Even if you replace 4 executional branches with 1 branch..you still have to do all the Hots/Dots/Heals/Damage calcs on 60 people regardless...which have to be selected form an infinite number of people within a selection radius. Which also have to identify potential synergie players to be notified
Will it be quicker....obviously.
Will it improve anything in the greater scheme of things...nope.

All I see is a "make me godmode" scream.

So what exactly do you use now when you are fighting "60 people"? /playdead?

Iyas wrote: »

..can we get rid of AoE cap pls?

And uncapped Barrier and Purge?


Thanks

signed

Rune_Relic wrote: »

So If I can now hit 60 people for 100% damage...at same cost...why would I use anything but AoE ?
Perhaps there is still a few people that remember before caps were raised to 60.
You know...after which they had to cut campaign sizes down to 1/10th the size because raising the players hit caused so much more lag.

Some people have really, really short memories or have serious power craving issues.

Giving players god like abilities does not (has not) fix lag.
It just gives a bigger group of players even more godlike abilities.

We are trying to get away from players with 1 sec TTK....and your solution is to go back to a 1 sec TTK with OP skills.

Even if you replace 4 executional branches with 1 branch..you still have to do all the Hots/Dots/Heals/Damage calcs on 60 people regardless...which have to be selected form an infinite number of people within a selection radius. Which also have to identify potential synergie players to be notified
Will it be quicker....obviously.
Will it improve anything in the greater scheme of things...nope.

All I see is a "make me godmode" scream.

Sorry, you clearly don't know what you are talking about...

Firstly, you make it sound as if people contemplate not using AOE because of the existence of the AOE cap. That's ridiculous. I don't think "oh, my fire ring will only hit 6 people at max damage so I will use crystal fragments instead trololol". Tell me, if you were fighting 60 people now - why would you choose anything but AOE (out of choice?) People use abilities based on their build and what they are trying to achieve with that build. They do not choose abilities based on the existence (or not) of an AOE cap and it is stupid to suggest otherwise.

In regard to lag I think most of us remember as well as you do. The lag however is caused by the server not being able to handle what is being asked of it. In the current state of affairs it has to calculate all of the diminishing returns. With no AOE cap, none of these calculations are necessary in the absence of a cap. I am not going to go into too much detail here as I am on my phone but this should be obvious. Saying we won't see an improvement is almost certainly wrong.

Regardless, if we don't seen an improvement in lag because of the reduction in calculations we will most certainly see a reduction in lag because of the need for people to play differently. Running in a blob will prove far more dangerous and (heaven forbid!) spreading out will have an advantage. Less blobs = less lag.

This has nothing to do with craving power or wanting God mode. It's about countering a game style that ruins the enjoyment of the game for the majority of people outside the bubble of people who choose to play this way - I am confident, based on your post, that you are one of them.

If you can come back and give me a cohesive argument as to why having huge numbers should warrant a reduction in damage you receive I might listen. Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would be against the removal of caps except because their playstyle benefits from it.

LegendaryChef wrote: »

I would also really appreciate my negate magic to actually negate magic and not require a break free because when you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.

Actually it does make sense because being silenced is considered a CC. The problem in this game is that we can CC break anything every 6seconds which is wrong. We should only be able to cc break every 1-2minutes and there should be different diminishing returns for every category of ccs (silences, roots, snares, stuns, fears, off balance). I would also suggest to group the diminishing returns of roots + snares and silences + stuns together. In the end you would have to decide what to cc break every 1-2minutes or so and there would be no cc immunity anymore from cc breaking, only a diminishing return of 8 seconds or so. You could still get CC immunity for X seconds from skills, passives, gear bonuses.

Lava_Croft wrote: »

I've always supported the AoE caps, but especially the latest update clearly shows that they need to go. On the other hand, I've always thought that uncapped Barrier and Purge were fine, but this update has also 'fixed' that.

Please remove the AoE cap on offensive skills and implement a sane cap on skills like Barrier and Purge. The damage nerf combined with with existing AoE caps indeed turns the zerg into god mode, while uncapped Barrier and Purge on top of that just makes everything rather silly.

Woooho same opinion as kris

frozywozy wrote: »

Actually it does make sense because being silenced is considered a CC. The problem in this game is that we can CC break anything every 6seconds which is wrong. We should only be able to cc break every 1-2minutes and there should be different diminishing returns for every category of ccs (silences, roots, snares, stuns, fears, off balance). I would also suggest to group the diminishing returns of roots + snares and silences + stuns together. In the end you would have to decide what to cc break every 1-2minutes or so and there would be no cc immunity anymore from cc breaking, only a diminishing return of 8 seconds or so. You could still get CC immunity for X seconds from skills, passives, gear bonuses.

Well you couldn't break it in 1.5, it was how it should have been, a bubble that completely negates the use of any spells or magicka users inside it. Now if someone has been stunned before entering they can use their magic skills at will whilst inside a bubble which is supposed to "negate" all magic. It is completely ridiculous and a lot less useful since the nerf in 1.6, don't get me wrong though, it's still useful when used correctly but it just doesn't make sense to me to class it as a CC.

Garion wrote: »

Firstly, you make it sound as if people contemplate not using AOE because of the existence of the AOE cap. That's ridiculous. I don't think "oh, my fire ring will only hit 6 people at max damage so I will use crystal fragments instead trololol". Tell me, if you were fighting 60 people now - why would you choose anything but AOE (out of choice?) People use abilities based on their build and what they are trying to achieve with that build. They do not choose abilities based on the existence (or not) of an AOE cap and it is stupid to suggest otherwise. .

Actually, I would be pulling out a Fire Ballista or Meatbag..

Garion wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

What would the AOE spamming do for server performance?

I don't see how they are supposed to design a game where having more people in large scale PvP does not give you an advantage.

Removal of AOE caps means two things.

First, the server has significantly less calculations to do. Simply number of people hit = apply dmg (less resistances etc). Now you have many more calculations based on X amount of damage for first 6 people hit, 50% less for XYZ people hit etc etc. Less calculations = less server stress = less lag.

Secondly, it stops the zergs from abusing the fact that if they stack on top of each other they mitigate a ton of damage. In fact with the removal of AOE caps people blobbing up would make it easier to kill them. They would be forced to spread out and this is good for overall game health.

Actually it just means one thing. Big zergs out in the open, running tight with barriers and rapids spamming impulse and Prox det killing everything in their path. Running over all the "small" groups. There are videos of this if you look for them.

Oh yeah., and uh, that;'s what ZoS was trying to stop in the first place iirc. /rolls eyes