So now that are Zergs are godmode...

Maulkin

Etaniel wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

They really should take a long hard look at what made the non-vet campaigns so popular pre-update.

Almost nobody has Efficient Purge there so people can't spam Purge forever to shake off endless siege and negative effects.
Barrier is very weak due to much lower resource pools. Result of all this? Trains just didn't work as well in non-vet. Any competent group could wipe them with clever siege placement and decent coordination.

And lo and behold, non-vet was probably the most lag free campaign we had for a long time, while it was still pop locked every evening at prime time. It's like they're trying so very hard to ignore the answer when it's right under their noses.

One thing I'd personally be interested in seeing is the Efficient Purge morph being replaced with a stamina morph (no reduced cost, just costing stamina instead of magicka). Need to get rid of the mindless spamming of purge and this would give stamina players an option for purging harmful effects too (I dont think any classes except for the templar have any affordable options).

Giving stamina players access to purge just increases the purge spamming... bad idea. Just cap it at six players max.

Wouldn't capping it encourage even more spamming? I can't affect my whole raid with one cast, so I'll cast 3 times instead? Trying to think in a zergling way

I know @Garion will jump on me for this, but I think along with a cap to 6 the cost for Efficient Purge needs to move up. IMO it is way way way too spammable for v16 501 CP builds and even a cap at 6 won't stop 24-man raids with 4-5 Healers going through breaches like there's nothing there.

I think for a small group (<8) if you are standing somewhere where you need more than 1 purge every 4"-5", you're probably taking too much heat. If your small group can out-heal and out-purge multiple sieges then a large group will do so with 100% certainty, every day of the week. So I think it's a bit naive to think that changes can happen to purge that will really and actually hurt big groups without small group survivability also being affected.

Another idea along those lines is Efficient Purge cap to 4, Cleanse cap to 12 which also matches the two sizes of PvE raids (who also use this skill). I think Cleanse is too expensive to be capped 6 personally.

themdogesbite

,

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

They really should take a long hard look at what made the non-vet campaigns so popular pre-update.

Almost nobody has Efficient Purge there so people can't spam Purge forever to shake off endless siege and negative effects.
Barrier is very weak due to much lower resource pools. Result of all this? Trains just didn't work as well in non-vet. Any competent group could wipe them with clever siege placement and decent coordination.

And lo and behold, non-vet was probably the most lag free campaign we had for a long time, while it was still pop locked every evening at prime time. It's like they're trying so very hard to ignore the answer when it's right under their noses.

One thing I'd personally be interested in seeing is the Efficient Purge morph being replaced with a stamina morph (no reduced cost, just costing stamina instead of magicka). Need to get rid of the mindless spamming of purge and this would give stamina players an option for purging harmful effects too (I dont think any classes except for the templar have any affordable options).

Giving stamina players access to purge just increases the purge spamming... bad idea. Just cap it at six players max.

Wouldn't capping it encourage even more spamming? I can't affect my whole raid with one cast, so I'll cast 3 times instead? Trying to think in a zergling way

I know @Garion will jump on me for this, but I think along with a cap to 6 the cost for Efficient Purge needs to move up. IMO it is way way way too spammable for v16 501 CP builds and even a cap at 6 won't stop 24-man raids with 4-5 Healers going through breaches like there's nothing there.

I think for a small group (<8) if you are standing somewhere where you need more than 1 purge every 4"-5", you're probably taking too much heat. If your small group can out-heal and out-purge multiple sieges then a large group will do so with 100% certainty, every day of the week. So I think it's a bit naive to think that changes can happen to purge that will really and actually hurt big groups without small group survivability also being affected.

Another idea along those lines is Efficient Purge cap to 4, Cleanse cap to 12 which also matches the two sizes of PvE raids (who also use this skill). I think Cleanse is too expensive to be capped 6 personally.

I know healers that heal their groups with cleanse rather then breath of life. (Bol Hits 3.. cleanse heals everyone.)

Honsestly though, dynamic ultimate and no aoe caps is more effective then changeing purge arround.. ANd id like to see something like the purgebug again but in a more.. controled and intended manner.. (This is how i thought the range morph of proxy det would work when it got announced.)

Ghostbane

Ishammael wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Bring back 1.5 ultimate generation without any softcaps. You stack with 50 people? Fine, get rekt.

batstalonsbatsbatstalonsbatsbatsbatsimpulse

oh god want

I keep having wet dreams about uncapped aoe and dynamic ulti

I would surf that zerg (if you know what I mean).

Uncapped Inhale. Irresponsible idea, but..

Wollust

Ghostbane wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Bring back 1.5 ultimate generation without any softcaps. You stack with 50 people? Fine, get rekt.

batstalonsbatsbatstalonsbatsbatsbatsimpulse

oh god want

I keep having wet dreams about uncapped aoe and dynamic ulti

I would surf that zerg (if you know what I mean).

Uncapped Inhale. Irresponsible idea, but..

Are you insane? DK is OP, we need nerfs.
buff the poor NBs instead

Maulkin

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

,

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

They really should take a long hard look at what made the non-vet campaigns so popular pre-update.

Almost nobody has Efficient Purge there so people can't spam Purge forever to shake off endless siege and negative effects.
Barrier is very weak due to much lower resource pools. Result of all this? Trains just didn't work as well in non-vet. Any competent group could wipe them with clever siege placement and decent coordination.

And lo and behold, non-vet was probably the most lag free campaign we had for a long time, while it was still pop locked every evening at prime time. It's like they're trying so very hard to ignore the answer when it's right under their noses.

One thing I'd personally be interested in seeing is the Efficient Purge morph being replaced with a stamina morph (no reduced cost, just costing stamina instead of magicka). Need to get rid of the mindless spamming of purge and this would give stamina players an option for purging harmful effects too (I dont think any classes except for the templar have any affordable options).

Giving stamina players access to purge just increases the purge spamming... bad idea. Just cap it at six players max.

Wouldn't capping it encourage even more spamming? I can't affect my whole raid with one cast, so I'll cast 3 times instead? Trying to think in a zergling way

I know @Garion will jump on me for this, but I think along with a cap to 6 the cost for Efficient Purge needs to move up. IMO it is way way way too spammable for v16 501 CP builds and even a cap at 6 won't stop 24-man raids with 4-5 Healers going through breaches like there's nothing there.

I think for a small group (<8) if you are standing somewhere where you need more than 1 purge every 4"-5", you're probably taking too much heat. If your small group can out-heal and out-purge multiple sieges then a large group will do so with 100% certainty, every day of the week. So I think it's a bit naive to think that changes can happen to purge that will really and actually hurt big groups without small group survivability also being affected.

Another idea along those lines is Efficient Purge cap to 4, Cleanse cap to 12 which also matches the two sizes of PvE raids (who also use this skill). I think Cleanse is too expensive to be capped 6 personally.

I know healers that heal their groups with cleanse rather then breath of life. (Bol Hits 3.. cleanse heals everyone.)

Honsestly though, dynamic ultimate and no aoe caps is more effective then changeing purge arround.. ANd id like to see something like the purgebug again but in a more.. controled and intended manner.. (This is how i thought the range morph of proxy det would work when it got announced.)

Call me weird but I have actually liked the change to the ult generation. With uncapped Streak and dynamic ult-gen, every streak through a group was 150+ ult for me. Could be over 200 with lucky crits. Going Streak->Dawbreaker->Streak->Dawbreaker->cheese for eveyone

And if that ever happens, expect a rain of QQ about Battle Roar and Vamp DKs again.

I just want the Alliance War abilities adjusted. They should be group support abilities, not zerg support. They are too strong uncapped. Retreating Manoeuvres, Barrier, Purge...even Proximity Detonation is poorly designed.

Like I've said before, I want to try a campaign where the Alliance War skills are locked. Just try it. I have a feeling only Vigor will be missed and imo that is a poorly designed skill as in: it should be single person heal and under the Fighter's guild not an AoE heal.

Minnesinger

After all the futile attempts at stopping zergs, it has become very clear that the level of dissatisfaction among smaller groups is at a high level. It is almost impossible to get a kill/ kills against a zerg running with multiple healers. During the fights they just heal all damage our AoE can inflict and start spamming their own AoE.

At least in the past , you were able to use surprise and chaos to kill bigger groups but nowadays the burst damage of small groups isn´t enough. It is like poking a bear with a stick and hope it dies of laughter. No wonder the pvp guilds lack any interest in large scale fights when they can´t kill any pug group using their numeral advantage.

We should voice our concern that PvP is getting very boring. The numbers shouldn´t be the decisive factor of the end result.

Maulkin

Minnesinger wrote: »

After all the futile attempts at stopping zergs, it has become very clear that the level of dissatisfaction among smaller groups is at a high level. It is almost impossible to get a kill/ kills against a zerg running with multiple healers. During the fights they just heal all damage our AoE can inflict and start spamming their own AoE.

At least in the past , you were able to use surprise and chaos to kill bigger groups but nowadays the burst damage of small groups isn´t enough. It is like poking a bear with a stick and hope it dies of laughter. No wonder the pvp guilds lack any interest in large scale fights when they can´t kill any pug group using their numeral advantage.

We should voice our concern that PvP is getting very boring. The numbers shouldn´t be the decisive factor of the end result.

It's not only that. It's also that big group survivability is linked to lag. The more these groups survive and stack on the crown spamming AoEs the more the servers crap themselves. So even if you try to avoid them on the map, you can't avoid the lag they bring campaign-wide.

It's in the interest of ZOS to disincentivise this kind of gameplay by making it more, not less, prone to wipes. Nothing makes a blob disband faster than the morale-sapping effect of 4-5 wipes in a row. As long as they steamroll everything with ease it attracts players to the play style, because everyone wants to be successful, and the situation deteriorates instead of improving.

themdogesbite

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »

,

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

They really should take a long hard look at what made the non-vet campaigns so popular pre-update.

Almost nobody has Efficient Purge there so people can't spam Purge forever to shake off endless siege and negative effects.
Barrier is very weak due to much lower resource pools. Result of all this? Trains just didn't work as well in non-vet. Any competent group could wipe them with clever siege placement and decent coordination.

And lo and behold, non-vet was probably the most lag free campaign we had for a long time, while it was still pop locked every evening at prime time. It's like they're trying so very hard to ignore the answer when it's right under their noses.

One thing I'd personally be interested in seeing is the Efficient Purge morph being replaced with a stamina morph (no reduced cost, just costing stamina instead of magicka). Need to get rid of the mindless spamming of purge and this would give stamina players an option for purging harmful effects too (I dont think any classes except for the templar have any affordable options).

Giving stamina players access to purge just increases the purge spamming... bad idea. Just cap it at six players max.

Wouldn't capping it encourage even more spamming? I can't affect my whole raid with one cast, so I'll cast 3 times instead? Trying to think in a zergling way

I know @Garion will jump on me for this, but I think along with a cap to 6 the cost for Efficient Purge needs to move up. IMO it is way way way too spammable for v16 501 CP builds and even a cap at 6 won't stop 24-man raids with 4-5 Healers going through breaches like there's nothing there.

I think for a small group (<8) if you are standing somewhere where you need more than 1 purge every 4"-5", you're probably taking too much heat. If your small group can out-heal and out-purge multiple sieges then a large group will do so with 100% certainty, every day of the week. So I think it's a bit naive to think that changes can happen to purge that will really and actually hurt big groups without small group survivability also being affected.

Another idea along those lines is Efficient Purge cap to 4, Cleanse cap to 12 which also matches the two sizes of PvE raids (who also use this skill). I think Cleanse is too expensive to be capped 6 personally.

I know healers that heal their groups with cleanse rather then breath of life. (Bol Hits 3.. cleanse heals everyone.)

Honsestly though, dynamic ultimate and no aoe caps is more effective then changeing purge arround.. ANd id like to see something like the purgebug again but in a more.. controled and intended manner.. (This is how i thought the range morph of proxy det would work when it got announced.)

Call me weird but I have actually liked the change to the ult generation. With uncapped Streak and dynamic ult-gen, every streak through a group was 150+ ult for me. Could be over 200 with lucky crits. Going Streak->Dawbreaker->Streak->Dawbreaker->cheese for eveyone

And if that ever happens, expect a rain of QQ about Battle Roar and Vamp DKs again.

I just want the Alliance War abilities adjusted. They should be group support abilities, not zerg support. They are too strong uncapped. Retreating Manoeuvres, Barrier, Purge...even Proximity Detonation is poorly designed.

Like I've said before, I want to try a campaign where the Alliance War skills are locked. Just try it. I have a feeling only Vigor will be missed and imo that is a poorly designed skill as in: it should be single person heal and under the Fighter's guild not an AoE heal.

So if you were streaking through a huge group like that they could avoid it by.. spreading out. Crazy idea right?

Im not saying we need a identical way of ganing ultimate like in 1.5 and before. But a static system benefits larger numbers then a dynamic one. Just a removal of AoE caps wont be enough. I do tend to forget its the elder zergs online we are playing though.

Minnesinger

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minnesinger wrote: »

After all the futile attempts at stopping zergs, it has become very clear that the level of dissatisfaction among smaller groups is at a high level. It is almost impossible to get a kill/ kills against a zerg running with multiple healers. During the fights they just heal all damage our AoE can inflict and start spamming their own AoE.

At least in the past , you were able to use surprise and chaos to kill bigger groups but nowadays the burst damage of small groups isn´t enough. It is like poking a bear with a stick and hope it dies of laughter. No wonder the pvp guilds lack any interest in large scale fights when they can´t kill any pug group using their numeral advantage.

We should voice our concern that PvP is getting very boring. The numbers shouldn´t be the decisive factor of the end result.

It's not only that. It's also that big group survivability is linked to lag. The more these groups survive and stack on the crown spamming AoEs the more the servers crap themselves. So even if you try to avoid them on the map, you can't avoid the lag they bring campaign-wide.

It's in the interest of ZOS to disincentivise this kind of gameplay by making it more, not less, prone to wipes. Nothing makes a blob disband faster than the morale-sapping effect of 4-5 wipes in a row. As long as they steamroll everything with ease it attracts players to the play style, because everyone wants to be successful, and the situation deteriorates instead of improving.

Yup agree. A small/ medium sized PvP guild has hard time to find new blood because new players know that the fight against the odds isn´t rewarding. Every campaign I play a zerg gets everything done and fast. There is hardly no incentive to start playing the underdog. It used to be fun to have a small and effective group that could blast enemies into the void.

Everything you mentioned about the morale of the zergs is true. They lack motivation to come back from defeat.

I really hope devs look for these threads. It is time they get a broader perspective into the matters of PvP.

Garion

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

They really should take a long hard look at what made the non-vet campaigns so popular pre-update.

Almost nobody has Efficient Purge there so people can't spam Purge forever to shake off endless siege and negative effects.
Barrier is very weak due to much lower resource pools. Result of all this? Trains just didn't work as well in non-vet. Any competent group could wipe them with clever siege placement and decent coordination.

And lo and behold, non-vet was probably the most lag free campaign we had for a long time, while it was still pop locked every evening at prime time. It's like they're trying so very hard to ignore the answer when it's right under their noses.

One thing I'd personally be interested in seeing is the Efficient Purge morph being replaced with a stamina morph (no reduced cost, just costing stamina instead of magicka). Need to get rid of the mindless spamming of purge and this would give stamina players an option for purging harmful effects too (I dont think any classes except for the templar have any affordable options).

Giving stamina players access to purge just increases the purge spamming... bad idea. Just cap it at six players max.

Wouldn't capping it encourage even more spamming? I can't affect my whole raid with one cast, so I'll cast 3 times instead? Trying to think in a zergling way

I know @Garion will jump on me for this, but I think along with a cap to 6 the cost for Efficient Purge needs to move up. IMO it is way way way too spammable for v16 501 CP builds and even a cap at 6 won't stop 24-man raids with 4-5 Healers going through breaches like there's nothing there.

I think for a small group (<8) if you are standing somewhere where you need more than 1 purge every 4"-5", you're probably taking too much heat. If your small group can out-heal and out-purge multiple sieges then a large group will do so with 100% certainty, every day of the week. So I think it's a bit naive to think that changes can happen to purge that will really and actually hurt big groups without small group survivability also being affected.

Another idea along those lines is Efficient Purge cap to 4, Cleanse cap to 12 which also matches the two sizes of PvE raids (who also use this skill). I think Cleanse is too expensive to be capped 6 personally.

@Etaniel, yes I do think it would likely increase spamming but it will still make things much harder for these larger groups to keep people free of DoTs and debuffs. In all likelihood if this happened, a 'decent' (using the term likely) train would respond by significantly increasing the number of purges in group. This will make a noticeable difference to their damage output though, which is only a good thing because it means a smaller group who use better tactics and have players who can manage their abilities and resources far better have a better chance of running that train down rather than coming up against DPS that is impossible to deal with.

A counter argument to this is that they will just stack more people to make up for lost damage and yes that's certainly possible. Twin this with a change to barrier though - which I think is needed, and I think there is a good opportunity for smaller groups to make a dent in these larger groups and start wearing them down.

This leads me on to Maulkin's point, which I actually agree with. I am not a fan of cost increases etc, but purge is a poorly designed skill and I think doubling the cost is a good way of reducing that spam (but only if introduced with a cap). Actually this increases the viability of a resource / cost reduction focussed support build which is something I always played in 1.5 and before. Anything that makes this more viable is good to me!

Garion

On barrier - I used to advocate a hard cap on this, but actually a more interesting mechanic would be to have shield effectiveness drop based on number of people hit (a reverse prox det, if you like). So I would slightly buff the base shield, but then reduce its effectiveness down 5% based on each person hit, to a maximum of 75%.

Simple I think, but effective.

Such a shame the ZOS combat team seem incapable of coming up with anything but blanket buffs / nerfs though.

_Chaos

Garion wrote: »

On barrier - I used to advocate a hard cap on this, but actually a more interesting mechanic would be to have shield effectiveness drop based on number of people hit (a reverse prox det, if you like). So I would slightly buff the base shield, but then reduce its effectiveness down 5% based on each person hit, to a maximum of 75%.

Simple I think, but effective.

Such a shame the ZOS combat team seem incapable of coming up with anything but blanket buffs / nerfs though.

Barrier is already a joke with the battle spirit changes and there's nothing wrong with it. We go through 3-4 barriers per engagement and it's an ultimate. What's so wrong with a 15k-20k shield as an ultimate?

Wollust

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

On barrier - I used to advocate a hard cap on this, but actually a more interesting mechanic would be to have shield effectiveness drop based on number of people hit (a reverse prox det, if you like). So I would slightly buff the base shield, but then reduce its effectiveness down 5% based on each person hit, to a maximum of 75%.

Simple I think, but effective.

Such a shame the ZOS combat team seem incapable of coming up with anything but blanket buffs / nerfs though.

Barrier is already a joke with the battle spirit changes and there's nothing wrong with it. We go through 3-4 barriers per engagement and it's an ultimate. What's so wrong with a 15k-20k shield as an ultimate?

That a zerg of 40 man can have 8 people on a barrier rotation and have a constant 15k-20k shield up if they stack tight together (which is what they tend to do).

DhuBleidd

+1

_Chaos

Wollust wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

On barrier - I used to advocate a hard cap on this, but actually a more interesting mechanic would be to have shield effectiveness drop based on number of people hit (a reverse prox det, if you like). So I would slightly buff the base shield, but then reduce its effectiveness down 5% based on each person hit, to a maximum of 75%.

Simple I think, but effective.

Such a shame the ZOS combat team seem incapable of coming up with anything but blanket buffs / nerfs though.

Barrier is already a joke with the battle spirit changes and there's nothing wrong with it. We go through 3-4 barriers per engagement and it's an ultimate. What's so wrong with a 15k-20k shield as an ultimate?

That a zerg of 40 man can have 8 people on a barrier rotation and have a constant 15k-20k shield up if they stack tight together (which is what they tend to do).

40 people rotating any ulti's are going to run you over. Don't blame it on one of the many ults.

Sublime

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

On barrier - I used to advocate a hard cap on this, but actually a more interesting mechanic would be to have shield effectiveness drop based on number of people hit (a reverse prox det, if you like). So I would slightly buff the base shield, but then reduce its effectiveness down 5% based on each person hit, to a maximum of 75%.

Simple I think, but effective.

Such a shame the ZOS combat team seem incapable of coming up with anything but blanket buffs / nerfs though.

Barrier is already a joke with the battle spirit changes and there's nothing wrong with it. We go through 3-4 barriers per engagement and it's an ultimate. What's so wrong with a 15k-20k shield as an ultimate?

The problem isn't the 15-20k, the problem is that 20 players benefit from one cast making it 20 times more effective.

Derra

Let purge cost increase with number of people hit +20% cost per player purged. Still vaible for solo play oom in big grp

Let barrier loose effiencency by 5% for every player over 6 hit.

Maulkin

Derra wrote: »

Let purge cost increase with number of people hit +20% cost per player purged. Still vaible for solo play oom in big grp

Let barrier loose effiencency by 5% for every player over 6 hit.

That's a bad idea, because you want to purge yourself and if there's other people within radius they increase your cost and decrease your survivability.

I'd rather it was capped than have variable costs which can play havoc with your magicka management.

FENGRUSH

Handling the defensive side of the equation is another story - but should be visited, this is something that should be constantly adjusted. The fact that AOE caps are still in place despite the performance issues theyve caused and nothing changed on the defensive side, dynamic ults were taken out... it just seems the tweaking that would keep the combat fair and balanced isnt present.

#HireFENGRUSH4Balance

Garion

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

On barrier - I used to advocate a hard cap on this, but actually a more interesting mechanic would be to have shield effectiveness drop based on number of people hit (a reverse prox det, if you like). So I would slightly buff the base shield, but then reduce its effectiveness down 5% based on each person hit, to a maximum of 75%.

Simple I think, but effective.

Such a shame the ZOS combat team seem incapable of coming up with anything but blanket buffs / nerfs though.

Barrier is already a joke with the battle spirit changes and there's nothing wrong with it. We go through 3-4 barriers per engagement and it's an ultimate. What's so wrong with a 15k-20k shield as an ultimate?

A constant rotation of a 15 - 20k shield that hits 24 people is not 'a joke'. Reducing the effectiveness based on number of people hit still makes a rotation viable, but is better for balance and incentivises smaller groups which is vital.

Sublime

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Let purge cost increase with number of people hit +20% cost per player purged. Still vaible for solo play oom in big grp

Let barrier loose effiencency by 5% for every player over 6 hit.

That's a bad idea, because you want to purge yourself and if there's other people within radius they increase your cost and decrease your survivability.

I'd rather it was capped than have variable costs which can play havoc with your magicka management.

Then watch your positioning. I'd add a 30% cost reduction to single player cast though.

Bogdan_Kobzar

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FENGRUSH approved.

...

Maulkin

Sublime wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Let purge cost increase with number of people hit +20% cost per player purged. Still vaible for solo play oom in big grp

Let barrier loose effiencency by 5% for every player over 6 hit.

That's a bad idea, because you want to purge yourself and if there's other people within radius they increase your cost and decrease your survivability.

I'd rather it was capped than have variable costs which can play havoc with your magicka management.

Then watch your positioning. I'd add a 30% cost reduction to single player cast though.

What does that mean? I can't control where other players go can I? And what if I get oil catapult? How do I "watch my positioning" when I can't move until I purge?

If I had a self purge spell then I would understand, but only NBs and Templars have that priviledge.

dodgehopper_ESO

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Let purge cost increase with number of people hit +20% cost per player purged. Still vaible for solo play oom in big grp

Let barrier loose effiencency by 5% for every player over 6 hit.

That's a bad idea, because you want to purge yourself and if there's other people within radius they increase your cost and decrease your survivability.

I'd rather it was capped than have variable costs which can play havoc with your magicka management.

Then watch your positioning. I'd add a 30% cost reduction to single player cast though.

What does that mean? I can't control where other players go can I? And what if I get oil catapult? How do I "watch my positioning" when I can't move until I purge?

If I had a self purge spell then I would understand, but only NBs and Templars have that priviledge.

If you want a purge, get yourself efficient purge. Cleanses yourself and 100 of your best friends around you... great alliance ability.

Sublime

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sublime wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Let purge cost increase with number of people hit +20% cost per player purged. Still vaible for solo play oom in big grp

Let barrier loose effiencency by 5% for every player over 6 hit.

That's a bad idea, because you want to purge yourself and if there's other people within radius they increase your cost and decrease your survivability.

I'd rather it was capped than have variable costs which can play havoc with your magicka management.

Then watch your positioning. I'd add a 30% cost reduction to single player cast though.

What does that mean? I can't control where other players go can I? And what if I get oil catapult? How do I "watch my positioning" when I can't move until I purge?

If I had a self purge spell then I would understand, but only NBs and Templars have that priviledge.

No you can't control the other players, but you can controls yourself. So you could leave the cluster as long as you aren't CC'd. Apart from that, it is more likely to get purged by an ally the more are around you, so you also get a slight benefit (not in unorganized groups though).

On the other side AOE CC would become extremely strong against unorganized groups, soooo...

However, I would prefer a flat increase of ~300/player, instead of a percentage increase, because it would get incredibly expensive past ~12 players. This is a question of design though.

Starshadw

Garion wrote: »

Oh and can we actually make prox det a zerg buster

At this point, I simply want the skill removed from the game. I see no way for them to make the skill function in such a way that zergs won't find it far more useful than the smaller group. They've tried several times now, to no avail. It's time to chuck the skill into the wastebin.

I'm so tired of watching the zergs rush in with 15+ proxy circles, all while spamming Steel Tornado and other AOE skills.

ToRelax

Reduce the cost of Purge (base ability) and Cleanse (morph) to that of Efficient Purge, make them self purges only.
Cap Efficient Purge at six targets and let the cost increase for every negative effect removed.

Starshadw

ToRelax wrote: »

Reduce the cost of Purge (base ability) and Cleanse (morph) to that of Efficient Purge, make them self purges only.
Cap Efficient Purge at six targets and let the cost increase for every negative effect removed.

The zergs already abuse Purge, and I don't think these changes would fix that, unless Purge became solely a self-only skill. Basically, the zergs organize themselves, with everyone ordered to run a very few, specific skills. Increasing cost isn't going to affect them much, because they aren't required to spend their resources on anything other than a very few skills. They simply use them over and over as the zerg moves around.

Sublime

Starshadw wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Reduce the cost of Purge (base ability) and Cleanse (morph) to that of Efficient Purge, make them self purges only.
Cap Efficient Purge at six targets and let the cost increase for every negative effect removed.

The zergs already abuse Purge, and I don't think these changes would fix that, unless Purge became solely a self-only skill. Basically, the zergs organize themselves, with everyone ordered to run a very few, specific skills. Increasing cost isn't going to affect them much, because they aren't required to spend their resources on anything other than a very few skills. They simply use them over and over as the zerg moves around.

It is not possible to use it over and over again if the cost is too high. Imagine +100 Magicka cost per debuff removed per target. A single AOE CC skill would cost the enemy 600 magicka.

Reducing the AOE would also have some impact as it basically forces 4x the amount of purges used than before (24/6=4), which means a lot of lost damage/healing/buffs.

Tankqull

Iyas wrote: »

..can we get rid of AoE cap pls? <- yes

And uncapped Barrier and Purge? <- no


Thanks

the advantage of zergs is the advantage in reducing incomming dmg - by numbers reducing it in itself, and being able to deny to much effects with one or two players clearing everyone of the zerg of negativ effects.
so cap purge and barrier to 4 players as no zerg will have 1/4th of its players dedicated to support while small and micro groups do.