Instant research on traits in the crown store?

Troneon · September 2015

This would be the last nail in the coffin of crafting...

NGP · September 2015

Oh, yes. What do you think they made those long time waiting for? It's like every other game to make you pay to avoid the suffering.
The horse feeding was better and more fun, every mount was unique. (Now they're just skins. It would be very amusing to see a bear running 60% faster than a horse for a lone time; or a cheetah could carry 7 times of carriages as a bear/horse could. ) But it was too easy for you to consider buying training scrolls, so they had to make you log into 8 loading screens everyday.

And they realized not many ppl would need those xp scrolls, and they didn't have fund or time to make more contents for free. So they just sent you to serve enemy alliances and called that experience. Well, not for a long time until they saw vr lvls were far from enough. There it came, the cp system, which turned the game into farming ground. (I don't know how much fun the other farmer would feel about this, opening the game everyday after work just to go to some cave to run a circle and then span a few aoes. And do this same thing again and again for hours. )

I think the board had gone out of patient and wanted profit right away. And they might say sth like" Hey, we're not sure we can make profit this way, but the old games do, even those f2p do. Lets make some cash like they do." So things fell apart illogically.

I'm fine with any attempt to make money, just please make it right.

BTW, Could I have a fighting pet? The pets annoyed me by sitting there watched me fighting. It's ok for a bunny or cat, but not those big guys.

newtinmpls · September 2015

I had initially said:

newtinmpls wrote: »

Given the in-game economy and the 'business' of crafting and selling - yes it does effect a crafter's 'game'.

A great deal.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Some of the traits are useless and what ones are good, can be gained quickly. So no, it's not really as big a deal as you're making it out to be.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or if you really don't understand crafting and how it contributes to gameplay.

Knowing X traits is a prerequisite to crafting higher level gear. The goodness or usefulness of any given trait is much less relevant than the time it takes to learn say 6 traits in each bit of armor.

This means that instant learning equates to instant use of high end crafting stations, allowing access to high end gear, that gives signifigant in-game advantage AND allows crafting for others and serious profit. When this comes about by use of money it is called:

Pay to Win.

Xilc · September 2015

jackiemanuel wrote: »

Hell no

They better give us free crown coins for every single research we did ourselves and waited an entire month for or I will quit on release of it.

sagitter · September 2015

Do you like to win easy eh p2win boy? Hell no! you must work on it like everyone or join a guild.

Tannakaobi · September 2015

newtinmpls wrote: »

Knowing X traits is a prerequisite to crafting higher level gear. The goodness or usefulness of any given trait is much less relevant than the time it takes to learn say 6 traits in each bit of armor.

There is a little more to it than that though isn't there. Like actually getting to the crafting spots. Levelling enough to actually wear the items you craft. Collecting said trait items so you can research them in the first place. Understanding the crafting system. Then, when you have done all this, it still does not guarantee the win, as the game has been out a while and many people already have these traits. So it's pay to be competitive. As all the items in the world will not help you if you lack the skill and knowledge to use them properly.

I can't understand why people see it as P2W. I can only assume that said people really just want to keep the advantage themselves for as long as possible. Which in itself makes it doubtful that they are the real winners. The true Crème de la Crème of the game would no doubt favor competitiveness as they will want better players with better gear to test their skill on.

Callous2208 · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Knowing X traits is a prerequisite to crafting higher level gear. The goodness or usefulness of any given trait is much less relevant than the time it takes to learn say 6 traits in each bit of armor.

There is a little more to it than that though isn't there. Like actually getting to the crafting spots. Levelling enough to actually wear the items you craft. Collecting said trait items so you can research them in the first place. Understanding the crafting system. Then, when you have done all this, it still does not guarantee the win, as the game has been out a while and many people already have these traits. So it's pay to be competitive. As all the items in the world will not help you if you lack the skill and knowledge to use them properly.

I can't understand why people see it as P2W. I can only assume that said people really just want to keep the advantage themselves for as long as possible. Which in itself makes it doubtful that they are the real winners. The true Crème de la Crème of the game would no doubt favor competitiveness as they will want better players with better gear to test their skill on.

This game was originally marketed and built upon crafted gear being in high demand. So players could sustain themselves by dedicating the time and making great gear to wear, while making a decent clip of gold crafting for others. You are suggesting to remove this completely and allow people to buy their way to being a top tier crafter. In this sense, why even have crafting. Just put all of the gear for 1 gold at the vendors, or hey, in the crown store. Call it what you will; p2w, p2advance, p2skipahead, p2catchup. If they add this mechanic, why not sell a max level character so you can jump right in and be on par with the people who are already max level. Maybe sell a package of CP's, you wouldn't want anyone to have that advantage either. The point I'm trying to make is that if everyone starts even and stays that way no matter how much time or effort they put in, what's the point in even playing. This is an mmorpg, you have to have goals and things to work towards.

Iluvrien · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Knowing X traits is a prerequisite to crafting higher level gear. The goodness or usefulness of any given trait is much less relevant than the time it takes to learn say 6 traits in each bit of armor.

There is a little more to it than that though isn't there. Like actually getting to the crafting spots. Levelling enough to actually wear the items you craft. Collecting said trait items so you can research them in the first place. Understanding the crafting system. Then, when you have done all this, it still does not guarantee the win, as the game has been out a while and many people already have these traits. So it's pay to be competitive. As all the items in the world will not help you if you lack the skill and knowledge to use them properly.

I can't understand why people see it as P2W. I can only assume that said people really just want to keep the advantage themselves for as long as possible. Which in itself makes it doubtful that they are the real winners. The true Crème de la Crème of the game would no doubt favor competitiveness as they will want better players with better gear to test their skill on.

"...better players with better gear to test their skill one...."

Wait, what?! Did you just reduce the whole of crafting to hoarding a direct advantage in combat? Is that really all that you think crafting is about?

If that is true then it really does explain why you can't see the downside to instant trait research in the Crown Store.

Defilted · September 2015

No, no and No, never do this. Crafting would be ruined!

willymchilybily · September 2015

Unnecessary. once you can make Seducer + Torug's pact (3 traits) or Nightsilence + Ashen Grip (2 traits) you don't need to rely on random drops. unless you manage to collect a drop set you want to use. and to get 3 traits is very quick.

sure you will want to get up to 4 traits magnus/whistrakers/histbark all good as the next milestone and finally 6 traits for hundings rage. but even that isn't such a long time to research. and you can always find the trait you need from guild vendors so its really not so bad.

Its not like you cant craft good sets with 2 and 3 traits. So there is no need for some "catchup mechanism" and my 8th researches took like 15 days iirc? so its not like its a time sink where I have to log in each day

Tannakaobi · September 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

"...better players with better gear to test their skill one...."

Wait, what?! Did you just reduce the whole of crafting to hoarding a direct advantage in combat? Is that really all that you think crafting is about?

If that is true then it really does explain why you can't see the downside to instant trait research in the Crown Store.

That is the outcome of crafting. If you are talking about the selling of said items player to player then you are again completely wrong. Are you suggesting that by saving time on researching traits all of a sudden every player will want to craft? That is ludicrous. If that were the case then all those other mmo games must have a ruined player to player trading system. After all, all players must be crafting.

And here I was thinking people just didn't want the new players to catch up in terms of combat, when really it's all about greed, they want to exploit said new players and casuals.

We will have to agree to disagree as it's become evident that explaining why paying for catch up is not P2W is as fruitful as explaining the merits of dualing to someone that does not like PVP.

Leandor · September 2015

Oh, by all means put it in. Then make the price of the instant trait scale the same way time does for research. First trait? 500 crowns. 9th trait? 128'000 crowns. Go, get em, champ.

angelyn · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Oh, by all means put it in. Then make the price of the instant trait scale the same way time does for research. First trait? 500 crowns. 9th trait? 128'000 crowns. Go, get em, champ.

Also you get 12 skill points subtracted until 180 days has passed

( or however long it takes with those skill points invested into reducing research times)

Callous2208 · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Iluvrien wrote: »

"...better players with better gear to test their skill one...."

Wait, what?! Did you just reduce the whole of crafting to hoarding a direct advantage in combat? Is that really all that you think crafting is about?

If that is true then it really does explain why you can't see the downside to instant trait research in the Crown Store.

That is the outcome of crafting. If you are talking about the selling of said items player to player then you are again completely wrong. Are you suggesting that by saving time on researching traits all of a sudden every player will want to craft? That is ludicrous. If that were the case then all those other mmo games must have a ruined player to player trading system. After all, all players must be crafting.

And here I was thinking people just didn't want the new players to catch up in terms of combat, when really it's all about greed, they want to exploit said new players and casuals.

We will have to agree to disagree as it's become evident that explaining why paying for catch up is not P2W is as fruitful as explaining the merits of dualing to someone that does not like PVP.

Except in your last example it is just a difference in playstyles. There is no argument here. Paying real money to buypass core systems and restraints is p2w. Calling it p2catchup, pay2advance, is just sugar coating it. Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did? What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Tannakaobi · September 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did?

You have to look past your own selfish nature to understand the answer.

Question: Why should anyone be able to pay to catch up?

Answer: To give new players and casuals the chance to catch up and enjoy the current content while it's relevant.

The result: A bigger player pool at end game content. A more involved experience.

Callous2208 wrote: »

What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Get real, that ignores all the other parts of crafting and the fact you would need to level to wear the crafted gear anyway. But let's be really honest now, it's you and people like you that feel the 'inherent right'. You want the right to be ahead because you have played longer. Nothing more.

Cillion3117 · September 2015

I'm very much against this idea.

Leandor · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did?

You have to look past your own selfish nature to understand the answer.

Question: Why should anyone be able to pay to catch up?

Answer: To give new players and casuals the chance to catch up and enjoy the current content while it's relevant.

The result: A bigger player pool at end game content. A more involved experience.

Callous2208 wrote: »

What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Get real, that ignores all the other parts of crafting and the fact you would need to level to wear the crafted gear anyway. But let's be really honest now, it's you and people like you that feel the 'inherent right'. You want the right to be ahead because you have played longer. Nothing more.

Let me say it like this: In order to get in new players, you lose the old ones. You create a game that works only by paying money. This kind of game I call moneygrabbers. Try drakensang online, just for ships and giggles.

Tannakaobi · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Oh, by all means put it in. Then make the price of the instant trait scale the same way time does for research. First trait? 500 crowns. 9th trait? 128'000 crowns. Go, get em, champ.

It's a fair and funny comment, why not I agree. Maybe not on the prices though. By the way I have played since beta, I have almost everything I need. I didn't suggest this for myself, but for new players.

Leandor · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Oh, by all means put it in. Then make the price of the instant trait scale the same way time does for research. First trait? 500 crowns. 9th trait? 128'000 crowns. Go, get em, champ.

It's a fair and funny comment, why not I agree. Maybe not on the prices though. By the way I have played since beta, I have almost everything I need. I didn't suggest this for myself, but for new players.

It's not meant as funny. It is meant as honest to God only way I will stay in this game if trait research comes to crownstore.

Tannakaobi · September 2015

Leandor wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did?

You have to look past your own selfish nature to understand the answer.

Question: Why should anyone be able to pay to catch up?

Answer: To give new players and casuals the chance to catch up and enjoy the current content while it's relevant.

The result: A bigger player pool at end game content. A more involved experience.

Callous2208 wrote: »

What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Get real, that ignores all the other parts of crafting and the fact you would need to level to wear the crafted gear anyway. But let's be really honest now, it's you and people like you that feel the 'inherent right'. You want the right to be ahead because you have played longer. Nothing more.

Let me say it like this: In order to get in new players, you lose the old ones. You create a game that works only by paying money. This kind of game I call moneygrabbers. Try drakensang online, just for ships and giggles.

Righto! So you would quit because someone pays to even the playing field against you? They are not getting an advantage by paying just a leg up to your level.

Hope499 · September 2015

Nah, too much Pay to Win on that....

Horse lessons are one thing, but auto researching traits people spent months on? No way.

Leandor · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did?

You have to look past your own selfish nature to understand the answer.

Question: Why should anyone be able to pay to catch up?

Answer: To give new players and casuals the chance to catch up and enjoy the current content while it's relevant.

The result: A bigger player pool at end game content. A more involved experience.

Callous2208 wrote: »

What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Get real, that ignores all the other parts of crafting and the fact you would need to level to wear the crafted gear anyway. But let's be really honest now, it's you and people like you that feel the 'inherent right'. You want the right to be ahead because you have played longer. Nothing more.

Let me say it like this: In order to get in new players, you lose the old ones. You create a game that works only by paying money. This kind of game I call moneygrabbers. Try drakensang online, just for ships and giggles.

Righto! So you would quit because someone pays to even the playing field against you? They are not getting an advantage by paying just a leg up to your level.

You betcha. I did not spend the gold and time to end up with a craft (or, better, crafts) that I can't use because every Tom, D*ck and Harry can buy the same for 1 Dollar 50 at the penny store.

Callous2208 · September 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did?

You have to look past your own selfish nature to understand the answer.

Question: Why should anyone be able to pay to catch up?

Answer: To give new players and casuals the chance to catch up and enjoy the current content while it's relevant.

The result: A bigger player pool at end game content. A more involved experience.

Callous2208 wrote: »

What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Get real, that ignores all the other parts of crafting and the fact you would need to level to wear the crafted gear anyway. But let's be really honest now, it's you and people like you that feel the 'inherent right'. You want the right to be ahead because you have played longer. Nothing more.

So if I am reading your response correctly, I should get over my selfish nature and embrace p2w because it's definitely not selfish to want what someone else has had to wait for or put effort into. Also I am selfish for playing the game as was intended, but you and your ilk are not for wanting core concepts changed to suit your needs. Furthermore, it is wrong for me to feel that If I put more time and effort into something, I should reap greater rewards than someone who hasn't put in half of that aforementioned time and effort. Noted. Allow me some time to ponder over this revelation. It seems I've not only been gaming wrong, but living my life ass backwards as well.

rb2001 · September 2015

I would like this.

Don't think I'd even use it, but making anyone wait a month to make a different kind of shirt is too much.

If you are worried about others "getting ahead when it took you so long", I think you need to think about why that would bother or affect you?

Back in the pioneer days, a lot of things were harder, and now they are easier, and it is a good, positive thing that it's easier for people today.

We don't have to live in the past and feel sorry for them, so why do we need to continue to stay in a system where it's time consuming to get x traits, just because other people experienced it.

angelyn · September 2015

If this happens:

In game: pay in game gold to buy items to research. (Nirn costing many thousands ) Also lose 12 skill points worth of effectiveness , in order to be able to research at 30 days.

Crown store: pay real money, save your in game gold and be 12 skill points more effective than those using the in game method.

Also in game method (even with all those points invested) has no "instant option". It STILL takes 30 days to research an item by sacrificing those skill points.

If there is an "instant" method on crown shop that doesn't require losing 12 skill points , Then there should be the exact same option available in game for gold. Currently there is no way in game way to research an item instantly..the lowest you van get to is 30 days, by sacrificing those skill points.

EDIT : Therefore if it was implemented and no in game equivalent was implemented - Crown store option will always be better, since there is no in game method of researching in less than 30 days , and even to get to 30 days you lose skill points. (Which do affect your character ). Also not all new players/casuals ( which is what people mention with regard to this) will have the money to do that, so they too will have to spend gold,sacrifice skill points and STILL not be able to research in game as fast as on the crown store( instant) since the lowest it can go in game is 30 days.

I'm undecided on this, but I would have to say for me it depends on how it's implemented.

Emma_Overload · September 2015

I researched all items up to 8 traits the "hard" way, but I have no problem whatsoever with them putting this in the Crown Store. This isn't P2W, it's just a time saver.

I'm not surprised at the blowback the OP is receiving, however. In every MMO I've ever played, there is always this delusional but very vocal minority who believes that crafting is the whole point of the game, and that everyone else should bend over backwards to make their anvil-banging dreams come true, LOL!

Tannakaobi · September 2015

Callous2208 wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Why, may I ask, should anyone be allowed to pay to catch up? Why can't that person start from the bottom and work their way up like everyone else did?

You have to look past your own selfish nature to understand the answer.

Question: Why should anyone be able to pay to catch up?

Answer: To give new players and casuals the chance to catch up and enjoy the current content while it's relevant.

The result: A bigger player pool at end game content. A more involved experience.

Callous2208 wrote: »

What gives Joe new guy the inherent right to craft on the level of Johnny early access player, the first day he logs into eso?

Get real, that ignores all the other parts of crafting and the fact you would need to level to wear the crafted gear anyway. But let's be really honest now, it's you and people like you that feel the 'inherent right'. You want the right to be ahead because you have played longer. Nothing more.

So if I am reading your response correctly, I should get over my selfish nature and embrace p2w because it's definitely not selfish to want what someone else has had to wait for or put effort into. Also I am selfish for playing the game as was intended, but you and your ilk are not for wanting core concepts changed to suit your needs. Furthermore, it is wrong for me to feel that If I put more time and effort into something, I should reap greater rewards than someone who hasn't put in half of that aforementioned time and effort. Noted. Allow me some time to ponder over this revelation. It seems I've not only been gaming wrong, but living my life ass backwards as well.

No, you should just realise that it's not pay to win, then all your other points fall away. I don't want core concepts changed to suit my needs. I want those concepts to evolve with a growing game so that new players (which I am not) are not left behind simply because of time.

DurzoBlint13 · September 2015

psychojudge wrote: »

It would not be fair to the players who did spend days on end researching every trait there is.

Is it "fair" that pc/mac users have had the game for over a year before the console release and already had all of the traits researched? Pc users could have all of the traits researched, switch to console and have a HUGE advantage over everyone that started the game. Is that fair?

rb2001 · September 2015

STOP WORRYING WHAT OTHER PLAYERS GET. IT DOESN'T AFFECT YOU IN ANY WAY UNLESS YOU YOURSELF CANNOT HAVE THE SAME ACCESS.

AKA if a change is made that makes it possible for everyone to get something, no past existing state has anything to do with it.

If a new thing comes and everyone is able to get it, either through in game time, or buy legally purchasing it from the company, then YOU have no reason to complain. You can get the things, or you can not get the things. It is your, and everyone's unique choice.

You guys worry so much about what everyone else is getting as if it has any affect on you whatsoever. If you want it, get it. If you don't want it, and you want to continue grinding away time to get the things, do it that way.

Don't complain that some one else gets to spend their money by their own choice.

sparafucilsarwb17_ESO · September 2015

If this was to be implemented then the game can go in the trash can. I will never support p2w.