NEW Mac minimum system requirements

KhajitFurTrader
KhajitFurTrader
Community-Botschafter
According to the "updated" date tag, the Mac minimum system requirements have been changed on 4/29/2015 as follows:
Operating System: OS X 10.9
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo processor
System RAM: 4GB
Hard Disk Space: 85 GB free HDD space
GPU: NVidia GeForce 460 or AMD Radeon 6850 (1GB of VRAM)
Resolution: 1024X768 minimum display resolution
Media: DVD-ROM
OpenGL: 4.1
Internet: Internet Broardband [sic!] Connection
(emphasis mine)

The minimum OS version has changed (up from 10.7.5), as did the OpenGL version (2.1 before). Minimum HDD space might have gone up from 80 GB as well (was 50 GB around launch time iirc). Biggest change is on GPUs, Intel integrated processor graphics like HD4000 or Intel Iris are gone! Minimum VRAM is up from 512 MB to 1 GB. Now it's dedicated graphic cards only, which might or might not be for performance reasons alone, but for the lack of proper support of OpenGL 4.1 in Intel graphics drivers as well. (Edit: I stand corrected, see Chris' post below)

This is good news, because this means we'll be getting a new rendering engine for the Mac client soon(TM), now with all the bells & whistles, i.e. FaceFX. :smiley:

Edited by KhajitFurTrader on May 4, 2015 6:38PM
  • JNight
    JNight
    Good to hear, thanks for letting us know. Can't wait for the facefx update!
  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    Hi

    In the coming months we will be updated the requirements to OSX 10.9 and OpenGL 4.1
    Any GPU that supports 4.1 should work.
    This includes the Intel 4000, and 5000 series.

    Moving to dedicated only cards would eliminate 1/2 the Mac market.
    The intel GPUs are 99% of full GL 4.1 support.

    https://developer.apple.com/opengl/capabilities/

    You will also notice apples been replacing dedicated GPUs with intel 5200 series that perform about the same for most tasks and the nvidia GPUs they replaced.

    All these changes are some months off and till then old hardware will play ESO just fine.









    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Hi Chris, thanks for the update!
    Hi
    You will also notice apples been replacing dedicated GPUs with intel 5200 series that perform about the same for most tasks and the nvidia GPUs they replaced.
    Yeah, they've been doing that to the 21" iMacs as well for some time now. But I do so hope that at least for the 27" models, dedicated GCs will still be offered in the future, at least as BTO. For me, integrated GPUs may have come a long way, but they still don't quite cut the mustard. In a world that's going to be full of Retina displays, I crave raw graphics power to drive them (for gaming, of course). :wink:
  • sean.plackerb14_ESO
    sean.plackerb14_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭
    Hi

    In the coming months we will be updated the requirements to OSX 10.9 and OpenGL 4.1
    Any GPU that supports 4.1 should work.
    This includes the Intel 4000, and 5000 series.

    Moving to dedicated only cards would eliminate 1/2 the Mac market.
    The intel GPUs are 99% of full GL 4.1 support.

    https://developer.apple.com/opengl/capabilities/

    You will also notice apples been replacing dedicated GPUs with intel 5200 series that perform about the same for most tasks and the nvidia GPUs they replaced.

    All these changes are some months off and till then old hardware will play ESO just fine.









    Just out of curiosity when the change to Open GL 4.1 occurs, will the Open GL renderer on Windows be updated at the same time? Sometimes I like to check out the Open GL renderer for the heck of it.
    @sean8102 - Carlore - Daggerfall Covenant
  • SlayerSyrena
    SlayerSyrena
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Wait, my Mac uses Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5. I'm guessing this change hasn't happened yet? When it does, does this mean I won't be able to play ESO anymore? (I have no other computer in my house that can support it.)
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  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Wait, my Mac uses Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5. I'm guessing this change hasn't happened yet? When it does, does this mean I won't be able to play ESO anymore? (I have no other computer in my house that can support it.)

    Hi @SlayerSyrena,

    no, this change hasn't happened yet. Even version 2.1 that's on the PTS right now is still using OpenGL 2.1. There is no official announcement or ETA yet.

    The change to OpenGL 4.1 will be made to introduce game features that the Mac version of the game hasn't been able to support yet, i.e. FaceFX for improved facial animation that matches speech better, and to overall improve graphical performance (Chris mentioned that the ground would be able to be rendered in one pass instead of two).

    Please refer to this chart from Apple (especially this one for OS X 10.7.5 specifically), regarding OpenGL support capabilities of different OS X versions. As you can see, only OS X 10.9 is able to support OpenGL 4.1 on a selection of GPUs. Sadly, this would mean that your Mac won't be a able to run ESO anymore if it can't support OS X 10.9. Depending on your model, 8 to 6 year old Macs will support it, barring the right GPU, of course.

    N.B.: The OpenGL renderer for Windows would very likely be updated, too.

    Edited by KhajitFurTrader on August 1, 2015 10:35AM
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    @KhajitFurTrader @chris.dillman

    So the IC patch is here and my mac won't auto update to 10.9 for whatever reason and supposably it's not available from the apple store anymore as they have gone to 10.10.

    Couple of questions:
    1. Can I install (hopefully) OS 10.10 and be able to play? Edit: @MollyH stated 10.10 is fully supported
    2. I notice 1GB of VRAM is the new minimum and my report.txt file states I have AMD Radeon HD6750M (512 MB total). Will this need to be upgraded as well? can it be upgraded? Will it support Open GL 4.1?see Molly's answer below.
    Edited by Cuyler on September 1, 2015 7:29PM
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  • ZOS_MollyH
    Hey @Cuyler!

    If your machine will allow you to download and install 10.10 you should be able to run it fine with your GPU. If you're having trouble with your video slowing down or skipping, please just try lowering your graphic settings and you should be able to keep playing as you were.
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  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ZOS_MollyH wrote: »
    Hey @Cuyler!

    If your machine will allow you to download and install 10.10 you should be able to run it fine with your GPU. If you're having trouble with your video slowing down or skipping, please just try lowering your graphic settings and you should be able to keep playing as you were.

    That's good news. Thanks for all the help @MollyH!
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  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
    Community-Botschafter
    Cuyler wrote: »
    Couple of questions:
    1. Can I install (hopefully) OS 10.10 and be able to play? Edit: @MollyH stated 10.10 is fully supported
    2. I notice 1GB of VRAM is the new minimum and my report.txt file states I have AMD Radeon HD6750M (512 MB total). Will this need to be upgraded as well? can it be upgraded? Will it support Open GL 4.1?

    All Macs that support OS X 10.8 and 10.9 are able to run 10.10, with the possible exception of singular features like Handoff and/or AirDrop.

    And according to the chart I've mentioned above, your MacBook Pro's GPU supports OpenGL 4.1 as well.

    As @ZOS_MollyH said, with lowered quality settings (especially textures and subsampling, but view distance as well), you should be fine. I've found it helpful over the time to reset the Graphics settings (by pressing [X] in the corresponding menu) after each new patch and let the game determine the optimal settings. The decision matrix for optimal settings gets more and more finely tuned every time and might take new developments of the rendering process into account. It's best to see how well things run with the defaults and then, only if there's some wiggling room, try to up some of the options to see if there's a nicer result without a bigger performance hit.
  • duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO
    iMac Retina 5K, 27 Zoll (latest model) with 4 GHz Intel Core i7, 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, AMD Radeon R9 M295X 4096 MB
    with IC now 2 FPS at low settings and everything turned off on a nearly empty map (not in Cyrodil that's for sure)

    You folks serious?
  • ZOS_MollyH
    Hi @duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO !

    If you can try deleting your ShaderCache.cooked file this may improve your performance.

    To find it, you can either just search in Finder for ShaderCache.cooked or go to your.username>Documents>Elder Scrolls Online>Live (or Live EU)>ShaderCache.cooked

    Just go ahead and trash it, and your game should generate a new one.
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  • duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO
    well FPS is up again (probably should write a script to automatically trash that every time this one starts ESO)
    ... only now this one get's attacked by invisible enemies ...
    the fun you can have traveling such pleasantly looking landscape, NOT.
  • bugmom
    bugmom
    ✭✭✭
    I don't know much about technology - my 2010 mac has this gpu:

    NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 980M with 4GB GDDR5

    Does that mean I am no longer going to be able to play this game? My fps is around 15 since the update. I've removed all addons and nothing seems to help. I haven't been able to play since the update...

  • chris.dillman
    chris.dillman
    ✭✭✭
    bugmom wrote: »
    I don't know much about technology - my 2010 mac has this gpu:

    NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 980M with 4GB GDDR5

    Does that mean I am no longer going to be able to play this game? My fps is around 15 since the update. I've removed all addons and nothing seems to help. I haven't been able to play since the update...

    Bugmom,

    Did you delete your shader ShaderCache.cooked?

    BTW this is not something thats supposed to be needed.
    When the dev team actually changes a shader the cache is supposed to be rebuilt from scratch.

    Is the game SLOW everywhere or just in the new content?


    -- ESO -- Lead Mac Programmer...
    Staff Post
  • bugmom
    bugmom
    ✭✭✭
    bugmom wrote: »
    I don't know much about technology - my 2010 mac has this gpu:

    NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 980M with 4GB GDDR5

    Does that mean I am no longer going to be able to play this game? My fps is around 15 since the update. I've removed all addons and nothing seems to help. I haven't been able to play since the update...

    Bugmom,

    Did you delete your shader ShaderCache.cooked?

    BTW this is not something thats supposed to be needed.
    When the dev team actually changes a shader the cache is supposed to be rebuilt from scratch.

    Is the game SLOW everywhere or just in the new content?


    Mostly I think I'm just gonna not play for a while. As it is now I have to say an incantation, reboot, make sure nothing else is running, throw some salt over my shoulder, and hope this thing runs long enough to take a keep or two with my guild before I get DC'd. And now there is a shader file i have to do something to.

    Just sort of the last straw for me and my Mac...
  • duncan_cougarpreeb18_ESO
    Dear Chris,

    done a bit more research on that and it seems to happen - occasionally - when changing zones, any zone (not just the new ones). So FPS is fine for a while, then it starts to act up, shortly after you see other things going wrong (mouse input not being processed, pointer visible, unable to turn / change point of view ...)

    In populated areas also have the issue that it takes a while for the 'skins' to load (only 'shades' of people to see), which is still better than not seeing anyone and then "pop" or waiting a minute for some NPCs to show up, as it was before.

    Similarly, loading screens now take anything between 1 and 5+ minutes.

    Looks like a huge memory leak + something messing up of the shader cache to me.
    Disabling add-ons helped - more memory available for the leak(s) - but only for a time.
    Similarly, now regularly deleting the ShaderCache.

    And last, but not least, restarting the game at least once an hour, which completely rules out going to IC with the way queues are now, and even group dungeons etc.
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dear Chris,

    done a bit more research on that and it seems to happen - occasionally - when changing zones, any zone (not just the new ones). So FPS is fine for a while, then it starts to act up, shortly after you see other things going wrong (mouse input not being processed, pointer visible, unable to turn / change point of view ...)

    In populated areas also have the issue that it takes a while for the 'skins' to load (only 'shades' of people to see), which is still better than not seeing anyone and then "pop" or waiting a minute for some NPCs to show up, as it was before.

    Similarly, loading screens now take anything between 1 and 5+ minutes.

    Looks like a huge memory leak + something messing up of the shader cache to me.
    Disabling add-ons helped - more memory available for the leak(s) - but only for a time.
    Similarly, now regularly deleting the ShaderCache.

    And last, but not least, restarting the game at least once an hour, which completely rules out going to IC with the way queues are now, and even group dungeons etc.

    Yeah i got rid of Fraklyn's Minimap and harvestmap, two of my favorite addons just to be able to stand playing the game and not rage quitting myself. I totally feel ya @bugmom and I also have been trashing the shader cache regularly now as well as rebooting more than I can count.
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  • LaucianNailor
    LaucianNailor
    ✭✭✭
    Just had a read through this thread which has caught my attention as ESO has started to take over my life this past couple of weeks ;)

    Do we know whether the updated Mac client will actually go 64bit, as OS X dropped support for 32bit processors from 10.7 onwards in any event and this will help massively with using the full available memory in modern Macs (I've 24GB sat in mine for example).
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  • KhajitFurTrader
    KhajitFurTrader
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    Do we know whether the updated Mac client will actually go 64bit, as OS X dropped support for 32bit processors from 10.7 onwards in any event and this will help massively with using the full available memory in modern Macs (I've 24GB sat in mine for example).

    First off, Chris has said as much that they are working on a 64-bit client for OS X (e.g. here and here). But keep in mind that neither the 64-bit client nor the OpenGL 4.1 renderer will be exclusive to OS X. On the development side of things, ESO uses a common code base for all supported platforms, meaning if one platform gets a new feature, they all get it, if they can support it (the current OpenGL 2.1 renderer can't support FaceFX like Direct3D does on Windows, for example). So if ESO on OS X gets OpenGL 4.1 support, so will the Windows client. Likewise with 64-bit support.

    Second, even if every running 64-bit process (there are a lot at any given time) could theoretically use all of the machine's physical RAM for its virtual address space, and then some, doesn't mean that it will, or even should. One such process behaving like this would trash the system's performance, many would simply break the machine. Why? Because of the paging, or swapping of virtual memory pages out to the HDD. It is very bad programming style to allocate more memory than what is actually needed at any given time, and doing so is detrimental not only to the overall performance, but to one's own process as well. Modern OSs use free RAM for background disk buffering, because even the fastest disk I/O is still 1000 times slower than access to the RAM (here's a nice reference). And even if all existing data of a process that lives on the HDD would fit nicely into the RAM, performance would still wind down drastically if the OS would have to start swapping other processes in an out because of this.

    On a machine with 32 GB of RAM, I've never seen the 64-bit WoW client use more than 2.5 GB of RAM, even after hours of play. ESO's graphics is a wee bit more sophisticated, so I would expect this amount to be higher, but not by much. At least the memory related crashes should be a thing of the past, then.
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