Patch Notes disappointment.

Garion · September 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Please tell me you responded to it?

I would also ask that the issue be elevated immediately to Hap Campbell, who also heads up the Customer Service Delivery teams, Global.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Is this true, that even though they are included in to the rotation of Undaunted, they are not accessible to non DLC Owners? That's a pretty unforgiving oversight on @ZoS's side isn't it?

Don't know about unforgiving but it is certainly a not very will hidden attempt at money grabbing!

ontheleftcoast · September 2015

MisterJimothy wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

MisterJimothy wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Agreed. No fixes for the borked instancing/scaling/party warp issues.

The worst offender is the FPS stuttering and memory leak issues and we didn't even get a fix for those (no, removing addons is NOT a fix).

Unfortunately, it is a fix. ZOS doesn't support any add-ons and all their testing is based solely on a vanilla game. If an add-on is causing issues, that's not their problem nor is it their responsibility to fix it.

"Legally" and "formally" speaking, you're right.
Concretely speaking, you're wrong. At this stage, if given a choice between "play without addons" and "stop playing" I choose "stop playing" no matter how much I like the game, because in my opinion, the game is not playable at all without addons.

I bet I'm not the only one.

So even though formally ZOS doesn't have to work on add-on compatibility, they should better do it imho.

I don't disagree with your opinion. Just simply stating the reality. The problem with trying to work with add-on compatibility is the following

1. Add-ons add more load to your client. Sure, it's just visually showing more of what's already happening in the background, but it's not a free resource cost. This is more an issue because of how CPU-bound this game already is.
2. Hypothetical: ZOS starts working with add-on devs to officially support the more popular ones. How do you decide which ones to support? Who gets to decide what add-ons are more important? Where is the cutoff? "We'll support FTC, Srendarr, and Wykkyds and work with the devs!" "But what about my mini-map? Or Master Merchant?! FU ZOS! I QUIT" On a side note, who are you going to get to work with add-on devs? Do you hire someone else?

There just isn't a simple way to deal with it really.

All that to say, when the PTS released, I simply decided to disable add-ons just to not have to deal with any compatibility issues. Turns out, once you learn to play with addons and get an idea of what's you're doing, it's surprising how easy it was to play without them. The visual and sound cues especially are infinitely better than they were. Now I know that's not an excuse, but just thought it was worth mentioning.

Of course this isn't even relevant to the problem. The massive loading screen *FAIL* occurs without any addons installed. ZOS knew about the problem while this was tested on the PTS and ignored the issue. The FPS drop occurs less frequently without addons installed but it still occurs. The problem isn't addons the problem is the base game is borked.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

Garion wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Please tell me you responded to it?

I would also ask that the issue be elevated immediately to Hap Campbell, who also heads up the Customer Service Delivery teams, Global.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Is this true, that even though they are included in to the rotation of Undaunted, they are not accessible to non DLC Owners? That's a pretty unforgiving oversight on @ZoS's side isn't it?

Don't know about unforgiving but it is certainly a not very will hidden attempt at money grabbing!

Hmmm... that's a tricky one, but if someone doesn't want to buy an expansion pack he/she should not later complain about not having access to it... furthermore, expansion is logically intricated and bound to the base game so yes every now and then there will be a hurdle "no access for you"... I see your point but all in all, people who don't buy the expansion just have to live with it, it's their decision.
If IC dungeons were not included in pledges it would penalize those who bought or have access to the DLC.

gard · September 2015

Scyantific wrote: »

Agreed. No fixes for the borked instancing/scaling/party warp issues.

The worst offender is the FPS stuttering and memory leak issues and we didn't even get a fix for those (no, removing addons is NOT a fix).

The worst part is that it took them a week to figure out the UI scaling issue while Mer released an addon fix by the end of the week. Guess the Bethesda tradition is alive and well (have the modders fix the game).

@Scyantific have they even acknowledged that there are fps, stuttering, and lag issues?
I haven't seen a response other than the initial "Did you try without addons?" post from the community relations folks.

Either they are working on it and not letting anyone know, or they aren't working on it. I fear it might be the latter.

PBpsy · September 2015

Treasure_Goblin wrote: »

[*] Non DLC owners cannot complete pledges half the time because they're getting the objective to complete WGT and ICP. I refuse to think this is intended, as I've never heard of a game forcing players to purchase a DLC.

Yeah.... This is disappointing.

They are not forcing to purchase the DLC since they are not in any way forcing you to complete the pledges daily. Unless you have someone from ZOS behind your back forcing you to play the game and get your pledges done.

gard · September 2015

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

The load times are not fixed? I thought I read a dev post about them having a fix for that

Having a fix is way different from releasing one. My guess is they found the problem, made a change, and it broke 10X's as many things as it fixed. We're going to have ESO:LSU for a while. (Elder Scrolls Onlag: Loading Screens Unlimited)

Fixed it for you.

Pangnirtung · September 2015

Load times still average just under a minute to get to a different zone.

Crafting feedback is still slow and that is disappointing because I submitted that as a bug on the first day that IC became available on the PTS.

Disappointing.

ontheleftcoast · September 2015

gard wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Agreed. No fixes for the borked instancing/scaling/party warp issues.

The worst offender is the FPS stuttering and memory leak issues and we didn't even get a fix for those (no, removing addons is NOT a fix).

The worst part is that it took them a week to figure out the UI scaling issue while Mer released an addon fix by the end of the week. Guess the Bethesda tradition is alive and well (have the modders fix the game).

@Scyantific have they even acknowledged that there are fps, stuttering, and lag issues?
I haven't seen a response other than the initial "Did you try without addons?" post from the community relations folks.

Either they are working on it and not letting anyone know, or they aren't working on it. I fear it might be the latter.

Not only did they acknowledge it they claimed to be working on a fix.

Ashtaris · September 2015

MisterJimothy wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Agreed. No fixes for the borked instancing/scaling/party warp issues.

The worst offender is the FPS stuttering and memory leak issues and we didn't even get a fix for those (no, removing addons is NOT a fix).

Unfortunately, it is a fix. ZOS doesn't support any add-ons and all their testing is based solely on a vanilla game. If an add-on is causing issues, that's not their problem nor is it their responsibility to fix it.

No, it is not their responsibility to fix add-on issues, however, it is their responsibility to try and work with the add-on authors to try and come up with a resolution for issues caused by changes in the API. At some point I hope that ZOS incorporates some much needed features (optional) in their own UI, like a Minimap.

I was also disappointed to see that some of the more annoying issues, like the long loading screens, were not addressed. That is just unbelievable.

Freeman · September 2015

If you choose to not pay for the DLC, then don't complain the daily Gold Pledge includes content you refused to buy. Either stay in free mode and be content with the base game and the limitations that brings, or pay for the new content. It's how all games work. You're STILL paying less than the game was when it was P2P. Four DLC's a year = $100, monthly subscription for a year under P2P = $180. If they just gave all updates out for free now that the game has gone B2P, then we wouldn't be seeing half the content we have/will and the quality would be way worse. Simple understanding of economics. If ZOS can't get money, they can't afford to have the staff create all the new stuff coming. Simple as that. You're still getting an exorbitant amount of entertainment out of your $60 or whatever you spent for the game. I even got a key for $12 a while back.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Trolling & Baiting]

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Garion wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Please tell me you responded to it?

I would also ask that the issue be elevated immediately to Hap Campbell, who also heads up the Customer Service Delivery teams, Global.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Is this true, that even though they are included in to the rotation of Undaunted, they are not accessible to non DLC Owners? That's a pretty unforgiving oversight on @ZoS's side isn't it?

Don't know about unforgiving but it is certainly a not very will hidden attempt at money grabbing!

Hmmm... that's a tricky one, but if someone doesn't want to buy an expansion pack he/she should not later complain about not having access to it... furthermore, expansion is logically intricated and bound to the base game so yes every now and then there will be a hurdle "no access for you"... I see your point but all in all, people who don't buy the expansion just have to live with it, it's their decision.
If IC dungeons were not included in pledges it would penalize those who bought or have access to the DLC.

So when each DLC is released you are saying the base game should have less content available as a result? Sounds legit.

RAMdisk · September 2015

My poor Nord fellow is spending his time these days picking flowers. Running around loaded on mead, tasting mushrooms and feeling all giddy. He look like the daintiest of all hippies. Last night he was howling with wolves in the dark forest.
I am starting to worry about him.

Hope499 · September 2015

Treasure_Goblin wrote: »

[
Non DLC owners cannot complete pledges half the time because they're getting the objective to complete WGT and ICP. I refuse to think this is intended, as I've never heard of a game forcing players to purchase a DLC.

Yeah.... This is disappointing.

That old tactic is as old as time my friend, nothing new there. Lots of companies do it.

Mighty_oakk · September 2015

Freeman wrote: »

If you choose to not pay for the DLC, then don't complain the daily Gold Pledge includes content you refused to buy. Either stay in free mode and be content with the base game and the limitations that brings, or pay for the new content. It's how all games work. You're STILL paying less than the game was when it was P2P. Four DLC's a year = $100, monthly subscription for a year under P2P = $180. If they just gave all updates out for free now that the game has gone B2P, then we wouldn't be seeing half the content we have/will and the quality would be way worse. Simple understanding of economics. If ZOS can't get money, they can't afford to have the staff create all the new stuff coming. Simple as that. You're still getting an exorbitant amount of entertainment out of your $60 or whatever you spent for the game. I even got a key for $12 a while back.

I bet this doesn't work and it free2p in a year

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

obscure7 · September 2015

I just wanted them to reverse their decision on making trophies non-bankable and forcing crazy stupid grinding for them. Still don't understand their decision.

gard · September 2015

ontheleftcoast wrote: »

gard wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Agreed. No fixes for the borked instancing/scaling/party warp issues.

The worst offender is the FPS stuttering and memory leak issues and we didn't even get a fix for those (no, removing addons is NOT a fix).

The worst part is that it took them a week to figure out the UI scaling issue while Mer released an addon fix by the end of the week. Guess the Bethesda tradition is alive and well (have the modders fix the game).

@Scyantific have they even acknowledged that there are fps, stuttering, and lag issues?
I haven't seen a response other than the initial "Did you try without addons?" post from the community relations folks.

Either they are working on it and not letting anyone know, or they aren't working on it. I fear it might be the latter.

Not only did they acknowledge it they claimed to be working on a fix.

I saw a post saying that they were working on loading screens, but not lag or stuttering. Those are not even in the list of known issues. Did I miss a post somewhere?

gard · September 2015

Freeman wrote: »

If you choose to not pay for the DLC, then don't complain the daily Gold Pledge includes content you refused to buy. Either stay in free mode and be content with the base game and the limitations that brings, or pay for the new content. It's how all games work. You're STILL paying less than the game was when it was P2P. Four DLC's a year = $100, monthly subscription for a year under P2P = $180. If they just gave all updates out for free now that the game has gone B2P, then we wouldn't be seeing half the content we have/will and the quality would be way worse. Simple understanding of economics. If ZOS can't get money, they can't afford to have the staff create all the new stuff coming. Simple as that. You're still getting an exorbitant amount of entertainment out of your $60 or whatever you spent for the game. I even got a key for $12 a while back.

It would be easy enough to mask the DLC dungeons out of the pledge rotation for people who don't have the DLC.
Would be the right thing to do even.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Preyfar · September 2015

Every time I go to Stormhaven I have a ping that's 500+ consistently. I can zone anywhere else (and wait the 5-10 minutes for the load screen) and not have the problem. But yeah... lag in general has obnoxious spikes that have made the game near unplayable, and let to the loss is serious amounts of Tel Var stones.

I've probably lost over 5,000+ Tel Var stones so far because I go to attack... and then just lag, wait, wait, wait... and when I finally catch up I die instantly because while *I* was lagged the enemies were *not*. It's really discouraging.

Giraffon · September 2015

Freeman wrote: »

If you choose to not pay for the DLC, then don't complain the daily Gold Pledge includes content you refused to buy. Either stay in free mode and be content with the base game and the limitations that brings, or pay for the new content. It's how all games work. You're STILL paying less than the game was when it was P2P. Four DLC's a year = $100, monthly subscription for a year under P2P = $180. If they just gave all updates out for free now that the game has gone B2P, then we wouldn't be seeing half the content we have/will and the quality would be way worse. Simple understanding of economics. If ZOS can't get money, they can't afford to have the staff create all the new stuff coming. Simple as that. You're still getting an exorbitant amount of entertainment out of your $60 or whatever you spent for the game. I even got a key for $12 a while back.

Hold on there. DLC is optional add-on content. It's supposed to add to what you have...not take away. This effectively takes away something that I've already paid for. Common or not, this practice is unethical.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Freeman · September 2015

gard wrote: »

Freeman wrote: »

If you choose to not pay for the DLC, then don't complain the daily Gold Pledge includes content you refused to buy. Either stay in free mode and be content with the base game and the limitations that brings, or pay for the new content. It's how all games work. You're STILL paying less than the game was when it was P2P. Four DLC's a year = $100, monthly subscription for a year under P2P = $180. If they just gave all updates out for free now that the game has gone B2P, then we wouldn't be seeing half the content we have/will and the quality would be way worse. Simple understanding of economics. If ZOS can't get money, they can't afford to have the staff create all the new stuff coming. Simple as that. You're still getting an exorbitant amount of entertainment out of your $60 or whatever you spent for the game. I even got a key for $12 a while back.

It would be easy enough to mask the DLC dungeons out of the pledge rotation for people who don't have the DLC.
Would be the right thing to do even.

Yeah, but with WGT and ICP being way more difficult than the other Vet dungeons at 16 it'll open up to more whining for people claiming they are forced to do WGT/ICP when the non-DLC players get an easier option. Then it'll turn to people will be whining to just get an option to choose their pledge for the day so that they have the best chance at the gold key, which at that point you may as well remove the pledge all together or just hand out the undaunted shoulders. It never ends.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Freeman · September 2015

Accidental double post.

OGLezard · September 2015

obscure7 wrote: »

I just wanted them to reverse their decision on making trophies non-bankable and forcing crazy stupid grinding for them. Still don't understand their decision.

ummm @obscure7 I can bank my trophies...... have been able to since launch of the game (if you mean trophies from doing certain quest) and have been able to since launch of IC (if you mean the trophies to get into vaults)

Palidon · September 2015

Yes very disappointing on the loading screens especially with so many players having problems since the new update. As far as trophies that were mentioned in this post, I deleted most of mine. They were useless anyways and took up bank space. Trophies should have their own storage area and not in ones bank.

obscure7 · September 2015

@OGLezard I mean the trophies that monsters drop that count towards the Monster Hunter title and achievements. I know it sounds kind of trifling, but I was having a lot of fun collecting all the monster trophies and catching all the unique fish. They used to be bankable and transferable to other characters, but now they're character-bound.

I was planning on throwing them on my main to get the titles and achievements, but now I don't know anymore, the grind to collect all the items seems like something that should be account-wide instead of character-bound. Again, I know it sounds trifling compared to most of the other major problems, but in my little corner of the game, that was my thing.

The IC patch threw a giant monkey wrench into my fun machine

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

Palidon wrote: »

Yes very disappointing on the loading screens especially with so many players having problems since the new update. As far as trophies that were mentioned in this post, I deleted most of mine. They were useless anyways and took up bank space. Trophies should have their own storage area and not in ones bank.

You want quest rewards that have no value other than for player enjoyment to be allowed to remain in that player's inventory as a sign of all they have acccomplished without clogging up their inventory?! How will that make ZoS any money once backpack upgrades are added to the crown store?

Sadly, such a change makes far too much sense for ZoS to ever take seriously.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

Giraffon wrote: »

Hold on there. DLC is optional add-on content. It's supposed to add to what you have...not take away. This effectively takes away something that I've already paid for. Common or not, this practice is unethical.

Hold on there.

The only option to make everyone even would be to remove the 2 new dungeons from the pledges for everybody. BUT then daily pledges make it far easier for people to find groups to do those dungeons. Removing 2 of them from the pledges rotation would effectively take away something from people who have bought the DLC and paid for it.

So please people who chose not to buy it, stop being picky.

gard · September 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Hold on there. DLC is optional add-on content. It's supposed to add to what you have...not take away. This effectively takes away something that I've already paid for. Common or not, this practice is unethical.

Hold on there.

The only option to make everyone even would be to remove the 2 new dungeons from the pledges for everybody. BUT then daily pledges make it far easier for people to find groups to do those dungeons. Removing 2 of them from the pledges rotation would effectively take away something from people who have bought the DLC and paid for it.

So please people who chose not to buy it, stop being picky.

You misunderstand my proposal.

Remove the two new dungeons from pledge rotation *only* for the people without the DLC. People with the DLC would still get them.

If I was the dev I'd probably balk at it. But it's an idea.

Giraffon · September 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Hold on there. DLC is optional add-on content. It's supposed to add to what you have...not take away. This effectively takes away something that I've already paid for. Common or not, this practice is unethical.

Hold on there.

The only option to make everyone even would be to remove the 2 new dungeons from the pledges for everybody. BUT then daily pledges make it far easier for people to find groups to do those dungeons. Removing 2 of them from the pledges rotation would effectively take away something from people who have bought the DLC and paid for it.

So please people who chose not to buy it, stop being picky.

They need to remove the two new dungeons from the daily pledges or open them up to everyone. Of those two options, I think the IC dungeons should only be available to people that have purchased the DLC. They should not be in the rotation of pledges for the people that did not purchase the DLC.

Perhaps either one of the options above "takes something away from people who have bought the DLC", but only something that shouldn't have been there to begin with.

anitajoneb17_ESO · September 2015

Giraffon wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Giraffon wrote: »

Hold on there. DLC is optional add-on content. It's supposed to add to what you have...not take away. This effectively takes away something that I've already paid for. Common or not, this practice is unethical.

Hold on there.

The only option to make everyone even would be to remove the 2 new dungeons from the pledges for everybody. BUT then daily pledges make it far easier for people to find groups to do those dungeons. Removing 2 of them from the pledges rotation would effectively take away something from people who have bought the DLC and paid for it.

So please people who chose not to buy it, stop being picky.

They need to remove the two new dungeons from the daily pledges or open them up to everyone. Of those two options, I think the IC dungeons should only be available to people that have purchased the DLC. They should not be in the rotation of pledges for the people that did not purchase the DLC.

Perhaps either one of the options above "takes something away from people who have bought the DLC", but only something that shouldn't have been there to begin with.

@gard too :
If you remove them ONLY for people who don't have the DLC you go back to what @Freeman already pointed out : easier access to gold keys for people who don't have the DLC => absolutely unfair. And making the pledges different depending on "player status" negates the very purpose of pledges : people can group up for a common purpose more easily.

No, really, people, stop being picky. You don't have the DLC, you don't get access to gold keys the days one of the two IC dungeons comes out. End of story. Really. Looks like you want to spoil our pleasure to play the DLC just because YOU did not like it.

Saturn · September 2015

Scyantific wrote: »

Agreed. No fixes for the borked instancing/scaling/party warp issues.

The worst offender is the FPS stuttering and memory leak issues and we didn't even get a fix for those (no, removing addons is NOT a fix).

The worst part is that it took them a week to figure out the UI scaling issue while Mer released an addon fix by the end of the week. Guess the Bethesda tradition is alive and well (have the modders fix the game).

Memory leak is fixed, even if they didn't state it. I have played Update 7 every day since it came out and have not crashed a single time, where before Update 7 I would crash every 1-2 hours regardless of location. If you are having problems it is likely because of your addons, though I will say that game performance did drop overall with Update 7, but I forsee them fixing that soon.