I don't know about any of you, but I'm going to def be running around as a Pumpkin Spectre.

Pretty sure there are worse things in this game to break immersion than new costumes/mounts.

Honestly this was going to happen, it happens in every MMO. Rather than freak out and cry just roll with it and enjoy the parts of the game you actually enjoy. I have had immensely more fun since doing that instead of worrying about everything happening.

If you're really not enjoying the game because your immersion is constantly broken maybe an MMO isn't the best game to immerse yourself in.

log234 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

log234 wrote: »

I was reading this thread on the forum and came over a link to some datamined pictures.

...

Thanks for reading,
Have a good day.

The specters you can make an argument for, but for the skeletal mounts... How? Skyrim had a skeletal horse. Necromancy is a thing...

Yes, you can probably argue for their existence in the TES universe, but the problem is that every second player will be riding on a skeletal mount, which in my opinion doesn't make sense.

Dying only to get back up with magic is immersion breaking. If someone dies they should have to reroll.

The story of the game has players as the chosen hero of the time. If you can ignore that, why not just ignore the mounts? It is immersion breaking because YOU let it break your immersion.

BlackEar wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Esbia wrote: »

Has ZOS actually ever listened to community feedback on anything? Like ever? I really wanna know.

Yea... but not on stuff like this. Only stuff like "buff this... nerf that" kind of stuff. The Champion System is a response to player dissatisfaction with Vet Ranks. Cadwell's silver and gold was a response to players wanting to play through all stories with one character.

You should read your post before posting. You are contradicting yourself.
To add: They also added FOV based on player feedback.

Yea, that does read weird. I'm sorry if it bothered you. I guess I should have said "Only stuff that seems to be geared toward the MMO crowd"

There's a pretty good overview of the kinds of stuff ZOS has listened to here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/214823/be-careful-what-you-wish-for

me_ming wrote: »

Personally, I think it's more "lore breaking" that there is an option for a player to play any race they want in any alliance. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it nor do I mind it. But yeah, it's sort of weird sometimes that when on Cyrodiil you're fighting along side those other races that are suppose to in different alliances, or that you're killing one of your own race.

I love the new mounts. I've just recently looked into the lore of TES, because this is my first TES game. And yes, I would really love to see more mystical mounts, I'm not sure I agree with the idea of having the mounts/hidden. Only thing I don't want to see in the game are probably futuristic mounts or costumes, as long as it looks medieval, I'm good, tbh.

For all the magic in Tamriel, it is really unusual to see open displays of it in the common areas of the world. It is not that it does not happen, but it is not widespread and common. Cities, towns, and villages could be filled with magical effects, and yet they are not. Your comment about medieval is right on the spot. Despite the knowledge of how to conjure daedra, you do not see them guarding caravans, shops, and streets. Even the Mages Guild halls tend to be selective on how magic is used and what magic is seen there tend to be events rather than normal. Eyevea, the Mage Guild island, is not filled with magical effects. The most overt use of magic in most inhabited areas tend to be portals.

This is why a lot of people riding mystical mounts seems out of place to some people who play the game. They are out of place in the sense that they are not common, yet they are common.

Athas24 wrote: »

[I've said this before but...we are all playing the SAME character in the history of Tamriel. We are all playing As the Vestige...that means technically speaking .... we are NOT all running around on spectral mounts, senche...guar etc... there is historically only one of us... not however many subs are out there. If you realize that...then it's irrelevant if you are standing next to 100 other vestige's (players) or none... YOU are the only vestige...so whatever YOU are riding...using etc is unique according to historical account thus ... not breaking any lore.

This is one of the ideas that forms the basis of turning off these mounts and costumes for other players. The game could easily be written such that the player was the only one who knew they were riding the flaming mount. To every other player, without exception, you could look like you are riding a normal horse. They could add an option to turn on these mounts for people who wanted to see them.

Athas24 wrote: »

Could easily even be used to explain the spectre pumpkin morph. A costume of sorts... or perhaps a temporary summoning for the festivities. You could use these in game holidays to bring about pretty much anything from bikinis to dancing monkey shows.... turns out none of the costumes break "LORE" just how people view lore based off the video games they've played or come to love as being the be all and end all of the lore...Thanks for the link!

ZeniMax can make all they lore they want, and it is all canon. The test of whether what they add makes sense is whether it is necessary to spell out the justification. Things that slide into the lore like they are supposed to be there are things people like me are looking for. I am not really interested in the justification because it should not be required to sit down and justify it. Well reasoned lore is one of the things I find interesting about Elder Scrolls, even if others cannot be bothered by it.

ZOS can decide that jack o' lantern spriggan is lore and can use any of the holidays, or daedric magic caused by the soulburst, or even dragon breaks to justify it. From a lore perspective, it has to be explained to fit in because it really doesn't fit in. This is because the jack o' lantern is from a completely different lore from outside of the game and has no context within the game or Elder Scrolls. Putting it on a spriggan does not automatically change that. We can make a spriggan with hairy feet and a hobbit head and that would not be in context, either.

I don't play Elder Scrolls games because I like to swing a sword and cast spells in a fantasy environment. There are a hundred other games that offer that. I don't consider text chat to be a criteria for continued play. I don't base my participation in the game based on whether stamina regenerates while blocking. Game mechanics are how we play, but why I play is because of the Elder Scrolls universe. I will tolerate a lot of game play issues, bugs, crashes, and even the nerfs, because those things are not as important to me as an Elder Scrolls environment. I am probably in a very tiny minority, but I don't care. This is an Elder Scrolls game, I am perfectly justified in feeling this way, and the company (ZeniMax Media) should recognize this. If they won't do that, there is no one else who will.

I have a serious question.

If Todd Howard, or a senior member of Bethesda (namely their lore people) came forwards and said "Actually, these are lore friendly because X" and gave how they fit the TES setting, would you all be as angry?

You have to remember that the IP and lore is going to be altered a lot for the MMO, and ZOS are doing a good job of keeping it not too extreme while still adding interesting items which people want to use.
Now if they were adding assault rifles and spaceships I might understand the out cry, however these items are fitting within the settings look and don't seem to be anything more extreme than what the other TES games have had in the past.

As I said previous as well, if you're trying to fully immerse yourself into a game then an MMO is not the place to do that. If you're here because you love the TES series then enjoy that you're actually playing that world with friends, focus on the hours of good dialogue, story and lore in the game not the FOTM mounts which will fizzle out the next time one comes around.

Failing that, try to open you mind to that maybe these are actually possible and common in this period of the TES history, then the knowledge on how to make or use them died out over the ages.

Zombies, gouls, ghosts, goblins, skeletons. How can you be serious about these new polymorphs not "fitting" in? Seems like a perfect fit to me. Dont be a lore bore!

Spottswoode wrote: »

Well....it's only a matter of time before you get Reindeer mounts and Christmas Tree spriggan polymorphs and bikinis and surfboard mounts. And another promise bites the dust...

While I understand the frustration, the original plan was certainly not successsful enough to sustain the game. Would you rather ESO shut down or have severely limited content in the future or maximize its revenue stream from what is entirely cosmetic content? Seems like an obvious choice to me.

@Turelus, No matter how I personally feel about the mount's lore appropriateness, they aren't represented in game. Well, nowhere other than the crown store. I could accept them a lot more readily if there were any non-crown store explanation for these mounts. There is no narrative justification for these mounts. More than anything, that's my personal issue.

While I do agree with @lordrichter that the need to justify an item in game is a good indication that it shouldn't be in the game, I would be much more welcoming of some of the additions to the game if they simply explained their existence in-game.

Are they wild animals that are naturally infused with the elements? Are they Daedric manifestations? Are they normal mounts that have been imbued with elemental powers? The descriptions on the mounts just say something like "Origin is obscure." Ok... then... how did our characters GET these mounts? Did we buy them from a merchant? Did we get them from the wild? I can go to a city where there are pack guars and justify that a character must have gotten their guar from there. I can find Khajiits who are training wild Senche-Tigers and can justify that the Senche mount must have been trained and sold by that merchant.

Using in-game context I can make conclusions about senche and guar mounts. There is absolutely zero in-game context for the fire mount or ice mount. There is SOME in game context for the Mind Shriven horse with Imperial City but unfortunately ZOS didn't take advantage of this by placing some of the mind shriven horses within the walls of Imperial City.

And, just so you know, I have asked that these mounts be sold in-game through Khajiit and Dunmer mount sellers (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/159315/khajiit-and-dunmer-mount-sellers-concept) or integration into the regular merchants (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/157476/immersive-crown-store-concept) to which ZOS said "No" to in an ESO live. I responded, as futile as it may be to do so. (http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/172089/immersive-crown-store-player-response-to-eso-live-answer/p1) After all that, I just accepted Crown Store in-game integration just won't happen.

At this point, I just want there to be some indication in game that these things normally exist within Tamriel. I really don't think that's too much to ask of ZOS.

me_ming wrote: »

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

me_ming wrote: »

Personally, I think it's more "lore breaking" that there is an option for a player to play any race they want in any alliance. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against it nor do I mind it. But yeah, it's sort of weird sometimes that when on Cyrodiil you're fighting along side those other races that are suppose to in different alliances, or that you're killing one of your own race.

I actually feel the opposite. If I remember correctly, its been a long time since I did the Wailing Prison, the prophet wasn't sure where you would end up when you escaped Coldharbour. You have a 1 in 3 chance of ending up in a particular faction. It would be more realistic, but also really annoying, if you dropped randomly.

As for the new mounts, we had a skeletal horse in Skyrim and remember that quest in Alik'r where the man paid a Sorcerer so he and his dog could be together forever? If you talk to him he tells you that the dog will return as a skeleton as well. SO why not a loyal mount? I mean how many horses did you lose in Oblivion and Skyrim to trolls, dragons and what not?

The costumes are just that costumes? In any given town we have nudists, skeletons, draugr, goblins, vampires and men in dresses. Is a scarecrow really going to stand out?

Hmmm... I must admit, it has been a long while that I have done the Wailing Prison as well. But then again, if (say for example) a Breton would get washed up to Auridon, I highly doubt Queen Ayren that she would welcome it more than any of the races within the AD alliance. And I believe among the three leaders, she is the most tolerant. It would be logical to think that if in any case, your race ends up in the enemy alliance you would most likely be dead, or (at the very least) be imprisoned. Again, I really don't mind it. I just think it's funny because basically the idea of the alliances is (shall I say) discriminating as to which race you should be. Much more the alliances themselves IS lore breaking. But then again, I am a noob to this series' lore. So... lol. :P

I LOVE the thought that each faction could have an "in-faction" and "out of faction" quest line. Then you choose your faction and are subsequently dumped randomly into one of the three factions. If you're in your faction you go through the in-faction quest line, helping your faction. If you're out of your faction you go though the out-of-faction quest line as an enemy of that faction. Once you finish you go to a different faction, enemy or home... you don't know until you get there.

Eh, gameplay/story segregation, or perhaps a similar term, that's how I always see these things. Being an RP'r is all about using your imagination to fill in the gaps, and using suspension of disbelief. When things are so blatantly against the lore of the universe the game takes place in, it should be a simple matter to just ignore it. It being an MMO kind of requires that - handle it how you would a player using nonsensical acronyms and breaking the fourth wall every other sentence.

That all said, it would be nice if they made them based off of the similar TES-appropriate holidays instead of real-world holidays - there's a lot of them! But that's too much to ask for probably.

Gidorick wrote: »

I LOVE the thought that each faction could have an "in-faction" and "out of faction" quest line. Then you choose your faction and are subsequently dumped randomly into one of the three factions. If you're in your faction you go through the in-faction quest line, helping your faction. If you're out of your faction you go though the out-of-faction quest line as an enemy of that faction. Once you finish you go to a different faction, enemy or home... you don't know until you get there.

Yeah, that would actually make sense, tbh. I haven't actually thought about lore until I got Cadwell's Silver and Gold. I just thought how funny it was that the NPC's would tell me to kill people from my own alliance. Every after NPC's dialogue I was like: "Ummmm... I'm not sure I would want to kill my comrades". Honestly, Cadwell's Quests do not really make sense to me. I don't see why I would want to help an enemy alliances when I want my own to progress. I know it would be too much to ask ZoS to actually make quests that would let you go to the other alliances and make you conquer it or something, so I suppose I'll play along.

Forumer-in-Prison wrote: »

Just stop it with this lore b***s*** and just LET ZOS EARN MONEY.

LEAVE BRITNEY...err ZOS ALONE!

me_ming wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I don't play Elder Scrolls games because I like to swing a sword and cast spells in a fantasy environment. There are a hundred other games that offer that. I don't consider text chat to be a criteria for continued play. I don't base my participation in the game based on whether stamina regenerates while blocking. Game mechanics are how we play, but why I play is because of the Elder Scrolls universe. I will tolerate a lot of game play issues, bugs, crashes, and even the nerfs, because those things are not as important to me as an Elder Scrolls environment. I am probably in a very tiny minority, but I don't care. This is an Elder Scrolls game, I am perfectly justified in feeling this way, and the company (ZeniMax Media) should recognize this. If they won't do that, there is no one else who will.

I suppose, if you play Elder Scrolls this way, it is quite bother some (and awkward) that you have everyone running around with mystical mounts. So in that light, I suppose it would be fair for ZoS to actually add the option to hide the mounts/costumes. Then again, if you are able to hide the costumes, what about those Role Players who are dressed appropriately, you wouldn't be able to see their costumes as well, would you?

Actually, this is an MMO and not a single player game.

The mounts don't bother me that much, other than the ice mount should have been done like the other two elemental mounts. Instead of being a block of ice, it should have been a reasonably normal looking mount with ice and frost around it. These elemental mounts don't exist in the game as a native feature, and it would be cool if they did, where appropriate, even if players had to go to the Crown Store to get them as mounts.

The current costumes do not bother me, including the skeleton and draugr polymorphs. Both of these have a long history with TES and are part of the game world. However, ZOS should had designed the world such that wearing those in a populated place garnered a response from the NPCs. The wedding wear and other formal stuff does not bother me at all and I think I own all of those things.

The pets do not bother me, and I like the new daedric rat. Even though this is not in the game, it is something that could be in the game. It needs no explanation.

Other players being around do not bother me. However, ZOS should have thought one step ahead and deviated from the TES norm of having the player be the One Hero and built the story around multiple heroes being in the world. I seriously think that they took the concept for Oblivion, changed things up, and tossed it into ESO. Once that was done, they built an MMO around a single player game core.

The skeletal mounts in the data mining are also well within the bounds of the game. They could ditch the red glowing eyes. Not everything needs to have red glowing eyes. These mounts would work perfectly with a DLC that introduced necromancy. Since they do not have such a DLC, I would prefer that all of the skeletal mounts be limited time only. This is only to pace their introduction into the world. I don't know if I would buy all three, but I would buy the horse. In a heartbeat if they made them limited time.

The scarecrow spectre thing bugs me mostly because there are undead things already in the game that are not scarecrows that could serve perfectly in the place of it. They could probably just rename it from "scarecrow spectre" and I would be happy. The idea is perfectly plausible. The execution needs to be cleaned up. We have zombies. We have different draugr. We have ghosts. Give me those things. I will buy them.

Most of my ire is about the Legend of Sleepy Hollow inspired jack o' lantern spriggan. This is simply reaching for the sole purpose of Crown Store revenue. There are a number of spooky things already in Tamriel that would fit better. You want Halloween costumes... we already have hags from ESO and hagraven from Skyrim that could fill that role. I would totally buy either one of them on the day that they came out.

Now, I do want to point out that the Headless Horseman appeared in Skyrim as a ghost. The intersection of the lore is already there. Someone asked if Todd Howard came out and justified it, whether that would make a difference. The difference would be that Todd Howard did not just dump the Headless Horseman into the game as a paid item. He built an entire story around it to bring it into the game and anchor it. All ZOS would be doing is finding way to make people spend Crowns.

For the most part, I like the Crown Store. I use the Crown Store for pets, mounts, and costumes. This is the part of the Store that I like and find useful. If Elder Scrolls lore can feed the Store with items related to ESO and Elder Scrolls, I am right there with my Crown Purse waiting for the store to open. There is a ton of Lore material already out there that is marketable. I want to buy this stuff. A jack o' lantern spriggan is a waste of my time and space in the Store.

This is an mmo.... you will find very little immersion with this game....