eNumbra wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Yep! And I don't see that as contradictory at all.

Skeleton mounts are an extension of skeleton men & mer. Living creators in skeleton form. I admitted that this was crossing the line and that I'm stretching for justification, so that can't really be used as an example of me being contradictory. I would still prefer for these mounts to also have in-game presence, but I don't have as much an issue with these as the fire, ice, and lightning horses.

Except that the undead exist as a part of the practice of Necromancy; Conjuration also exists and allows the summoning of various elementals/atronachs and Daedra. The notion that similar elemental mounts can be summoned or even crafted via magicka is a simple step.

You seem to have ignored my biggest issue with these mounts. They are NO WHERE in the game but the crown store. No where in ANY TES game. To me, it is like they decided to sell flying monkeys as pets, or griffins as mounts. There's no justification for them. I ignored this because this happens all the time. Things are added and removed from one game to its sequel: Zenimax having the rights to make ESO, it is theirs to do with what they will. They need to justification, like it or not.

If there were enchanting runes or crafting materials or motifs that were only available in the crown store, I'd have issues worn those too. Actually, I do have issues work many of the costumes and the concept of the costume in general. I have asked for a toggle to "show equipped" so we can choose to ignore costumes.
This is where you're being contradictory. Zenimax can make broad sweeping changes to the lore all they want unless its only changed via the cash shop. That said, I'd be fine with the "remove mysticism" idea, which would display all non-traditional mounts as plain.


As for the "only one vestige" issue, that's a response to the argument that there are fantastical mounts in Oblivion and Skyrim provides justification for the fire, ice, and lightning horses in ESO. Those mounts weren't for just any adventurer, they were footer you specifically, because of your accomplishments and skill. I'm ESO there's no justification for every other adventurer riding around on an elemental mount.

They we're for just any adventurer. You got them because you happened to be that adventurer, if another had gotten there first those mounts would have been theirs, but since it was a single player game you were the only adventurer. All of the other "non-vestiges" are doing all the same quests as you, getting all the same loot as you and have access to all the same things as you. Beat all the same quests, kill all the same bosses... etc. They're no less skilled than the vestige.

If they exist in lore, I'm OK with them being sold as a mount in the crown store (unicorn, wamasu). If they exist in a game I'd be OK with them being sold as a pet in the crown store (riekling, daedrat). If they don't exist in lore and don't exist in any game, I have an issue with them being sold in the crown store (Nightmare Courser, Frost Mare, Mind Shriven Horse).

The Daedrat has made no appearances before ESO, you can't establish the justifying lore for something in the same game, that's circular logic; and it brings us back to new things being added every game. That its okay to sell in the crown store only because its instanced somewhere in the world is your opinion which you're welcome to; but I find it contradictory, thanks to Zenimax having the rights to the IP.

My statement and plea is simple:

Justify these mounts in game.

The cold truth - We're zenimax, we're designing this game, a powerful wizard did it.

All of that aside - let's face it, we're in a dragon break none of this will matter with TES6.

Ok. I see where your issue lies. I used to be more pitchfork and torch with my opinion on this. If someone had suggested ANY mount other than a horse last summer I would have argued reasons why that would be lore breaking. The only trans-continental mounts SHOULD be horses. I guess I am a victim of justifications on top of justifications.

By the rule of "hey if it's in ESO somewhere, then it's justified" opens ZOS up to make... anything. Want a Dwemer hover bike? Sure! One was fond in a ruin. BAM! LORE! lol. I totally get the fallacy in that way of thought but dude... if I didn't give them that much I couldn't play ESO. I couldn't stomach it.

You've got a point about the singular mounts in other TES games being rewarded to us because we were THE adventurer that completed the quest. So it's feasible that there have been other adventurers that have gotten mystical mounts in Tamriel. Shadowmere was actually owned by some dark brotherhood guy prior to the player in Oblivion, who owned it prior to the player in Skyrim. I guess my perspective on that is more that those mounts were singular mounts, not a type or race of mounts as they appear to be in ESO. But this is an MMO... we can't have just ONE player getting rewarded something, can we?

Really, I would be much more accepting of the mounts if there WERE a quest in which an adventurer is "rewarded" the mount. As it stands now we just "poof" the things into existence out of our rears... you know... where we keep our wallets.

Truthfully, I don't like any of the fantasy mounts, mostly because of HOW they are in the game but also because they don't fit how "I" think the Elder Scrolls should be. But I'm not making this game. I'm not on the design team... so I don't really get a say. So, what I can hope is that they will at least add some half-baked justification in game rather than continuing to shrug their shoulders at "lore appropriateness" as they seem to be content doing.

If a powerful wizard did it... put that wizard in game... let me talk to him. I'd be fine with that (weak) justification.

nimander99 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Ugh... why do we have to keep making this point. Arvak and Shadowmere are ONE-OF-A-KIND creatures. TES Doesn't have every Tom, Rick, and Harry riding around on these kinds of mounts.
8

Because its how magic works; because they could be one of a kind for no reason other than the other games were single-player and you didn't encounter other adventurers with the means to acquire rarer knowledge.

Because Zenimax isn't go to change it and these threads are useless and you all need to just relax and roll with it.

As long as they don't add Dwemer steam-powered motorcycles, anything they do with Horses, Guar and Senche is meaningless.

If these kinds of mounts were commonplace they would have been seen in the single player games. Sure there are special cases like Shadowmare... who really just had red eyes, not so special. These two mounts are very specific mounts, not a kind of mount "race'.

Furthermore, I have implored ZOS to include these mounts in-game in SOME way. Ideally we would go on a quest that requires the mount or rewards the mounts (like Arvak and Shadowmare) or ZOS could just make the mounts wild horses. Fire horse at the base of the volcanos in Shadowfen. Ice mounts in Eastmarch, and mindshriven mounts in Imperial City. This would actually be enough justification for me.

I even asked for them to just be sold AT the stables... but ZOS said "No". Literally. They responded on ESO live!

I don't think we are being unreasonable and I for one and trying my damnedest to accept these mounts as part of ESO "lore". As it is.... where did all these adventurers get their mounts? Where do they exist in the world aside from mounts? I want some justification from ESO, not some fan-fiction excuse that I have to make up myself.

The reason I don't have a problem with Guars or Senche-tigers is because I've seen these creatures in ESO. I know them in the context of ESO. I do not know any of the fantasy mounts in the context of ESO, because they have none.

I agree with you bro, but we both know why there will never be quests attached to these mounts... even if we paid real $ for the quests to get the mounts... its easier to re-skin, its not easy to make a quest to get the skin. Everyone pays $25 for a skin... why would zos all the sudden start making quests for em... its easy money, pure and simple. But I do agree with you.

Yea, I know @nimander99. Why sell the fruit when people will buy the leaves? This is why I have gone from "Please give us a quest!" to "Please just place them in the game somewhere... anywhere...".

Sorry never really complained about some of the other Lore Breaking Crown Store stuff. But this is ridiculous, and I'm usually the type to support ZOS. But not with this, IF it is to actually come out that is. Just my opinion though.

Might I add that in the Skyrim: Dragonborn DLC there is a "crafting station" that lets you imbue spiders with elemental effects? Thus making the frost and fire horses entirely possible in lore if you can "enchant" spiders like that.

Forumer-in-Prison wrote: »

Just stop it with this lore b***s*** and just LET ZOS EARN MONEY.

The two things are not mutually exclusive. We can have lore, and ZOS can earn money.

Twilix01 wrote: »

Might I add that in the Skyrim: Dragonborn DLC there is a "crafting station" that lets you imbue spiders with elemental effects? Thus making the frost and fire horses entirely possible in lore if you can "enchant" spiders like that.

You know, I think if what we bought were scrolls that transformed a horse, senche, or guar into a fire, ice, shriven mount I'd be much less bothered by these mounts.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I never saw this part of the Dragonborn DLC. I didn't play it all the way through. As silly as it sounds... It actually makes all this sit much better with me.

Now about that Imbuing station...

As long as I get one of these i'm cool with it.

These look awesome, can't wait, I was about to make a post about how Zos should do events and such but they beat me to it

Gidorick wrote: »

eNumbra wrote: »

The mounts aren't really lore-breaking.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Shadowmere - Shadowmere is a unkillable force of nature
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Arvak - Arvak is skeletal summonable horse

If you can conjure elementals and undead, its not ridiculous that you can do it with horses - just because we hadn't seen it yet in an ES game doesn't mean it was outside the lore. Seeing Senche outside of Elsweyr, seeing Nords and Orcs and Altmer riding senche, is more lore-breaking than undead mounts.

Ugh... why do we have to keep making this point. Arvak and Shadowmere are ONE-OF-A-KIND creatures. TES Doesn't have every Tom, Rick, and Harry riding around on these kinds of mounts.

Another point we keep having to make is that the Senche mounts are NOT Senche Khajiits. They're just big cats. This was confirmed by the loremaster: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/1563118/#Comment_1563118

I've said this before but...we are all playing the SAME character in the history of Tamriel. We are all playing As the Vestige...that means technically speaking .... we are NOT all running around on spectral mounts, senche...guar etc... there is historically only one of us... not however many subs are out there. If you realize that...then it's irrelevant if you are standing next to 100 other vestige's (players) or none... YOU are the only vestige...so whatever YOU are riding...using etc is unique according to historical account thus ... not breaking any lore.

While I did laugh at the feedback image, you guys need to pick your battles. Immersion breaking is the the worst argument I can think of.

I want ZOS to make money, because if they do, then the gameplay that I actually care about might get updated.

Being against someone using a costume is like being against gay marriage. Who gives a [snip]?

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

I dont think this is lore breaking. If someone want to rp a necromancer and need some actors wearing skeleton and zombie outfit for an event, this is actually great. If someone want to rp an undead walking around with his mount/pet (remember that guy in Alik'r with his dog?) then that's their choice. I made a new sorc after bought the lightning horse and plan to rp him as a mage who rode into a thunderstorm to do some experiment, but was hit by Sheogorath (they said thunderstorms belong to the Mad god) and now become a mad man and lost control of his lightning spells. See? It's still fit the lore, and with some imagination, you could make some interesting characters. Even if you don't like those "twists" in lore, there are people who do, why force them play like you? Why let them upset you? Just ignore it and let people have fun.

Gidorick wrote: »

Esbia wrote: »

Has ZOS actually ever listened to community feedback on anything? Like ever? I really wanna know.

Yea... but not on stuff like this. Only stuff like "buff this... nerf that" kind of stuff. The Champion System is a response to player dissatisfaction with Vet Ranks. Cadwell's silver and gold was a response to players wanting to play through all stories with one character.

You should read your post before posting. You are contradicting yourself.
To add: They also added FOV based on player feedback.

I like the up and coming things but there are a few things stopping me from getting them.

You know what be even better? Being able to get/ make v16 gear in PvE without having to wait for months for mats and motifs.

Oh and stop nerfing stuff and make a more balanced game. That is what I paid for and I'm not seeing it.

No money for ZOS until that happens.

log234 wrote: »

But can't you see how far outside the Elder Scrolls universe these new mounts and polymorhps are?

They aren't.
If you are uneasy about them making kinda-Halloween-themed additions to the Crown Store, I could say you have a point, as I wouldn't want real world holidays leak into Tamriel. However, the actual execution of these additions are absolutely and perfectly fine within the TES universe.
In fact I think they look great.

Esbia wrote: »

Has ZOS actually ever listened to community feedback on anything? Like ever? I really wanna know.

Are you new or kidding?
Without going into detail over all the changes already made, the long-term total overhaul of endgame progression and removal of veteran ranks is 100% due to community feedback.

Uviryth wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS listen to the community ok no one wants real life holiday items added to the game. DO NOT ADD THEM !!!!!!!!!!

I want them, so does anyone else I play with.I like festive themes, RL-references in mmo`s and general fun stuff.
Don`t try to speak for the whole community.

+1

i love holiday themed events and items, Halloween being my absolute favorite. the undead horse mount is something i have asked for (along with many others) on one of those store forum threads, and when i saw the data mined pics i was actually excited on getting myself one.

the Lore mongers just need to realize this is an MMO and not a single player TES game. holiday events are a staple in mmos, it's the first excitement ive had for ZOS in a long time and that isn't saying allot...

i think the greater argument is these "lore protectors" really don't mind special mounts so long as they are unique/exclusive. problem is this is a massively multiplayer online game. there will never be the same exclusive "feel" that any of the single player RPG TES games have promoted.

if you want to be exclusive, unique, and the hero of tamriel, you wont find it in ESO.